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Lexus ES 300/ES 330

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Comments

  • parnolaparnola Member Posts: 141
    I think the VSC is very worthwhile. I have an RX AWD, not an ES. A few times when I've gone around a corner too quickly in the wet or snow it's kicked in and brought the car under control quickly. I wouldn't pass it up.

    As for the chrome wheels, I think they are an expensive option that can be passed on. I had them on my '97 ES and they were a nightmare to keep looking good ... they pit very easily.
  • hk2lahk2la Member Posts: 53
    Thank you lenscap and sddlw, I really appreciate the information. One other question, do I need to Zaino after each car wash? I've only used regular car wax in the past. I'll also check out the Maintenance/Zaino board. Thanks again.
  • tmarttmart Member Posts: 2,239
    You DON'T have to Zaino after each wash, but odds are you will WANT to. Z'ing can become addictive. Tmart
  • hk2lahk2la Member Posts: 53
    I was very surprised and disappointed at first (I only experienced the delay in low gear). Especially when a Ford Explorer was able to beat me, right after the light turned green. Now I have about 1800 miles on my ES and it's gotten better. Also, when you really have to gun it, there is not a problem (that is, not any more; there was definitely a problem during the first 1000 miles). For those of you who know the Pasadena (CA) freeway onramps, you know what I mean.
  • gs4rx3gs4rx3 Member Posts: 25
    I'm getting the VSC and bailing on the chrome wheels.
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    After you have a few coats of Z-2 you will not have to reapply for quite some time. But I like to use the gloss enhancer for a quick detail after every couyple of washes. It really keeps the car shining.
  • jgrnautjgrnaut Member Posts: 1
    The 2002 ES 300 is my first car with 4 doors and I am wondering if it is normal for a car to produce a deafening noise when you have both rear windows down, all other openings closed (ie sunroof and front windows) and moving over 60mph. Just wondering.
  • tmarttmart Member Posts: 2,239
    Have a '00 ES300 Platinum Edition with the standard sound system, not the Nacamuchi(sp) upgrade. Wife wants another magazine/cartridge. Lexus wants $37.00 + tax. Who makes the cd changer for Lexus? Knowing the make, I should be able to get one for, hopefully, less than $37, without the Lexus logo on it. Tmart
  • rebelskrebelsk Member Posts: 65
    When I was purchasing my 2002 ES, Lexus sent me the DVD on the car. It has a short video and then sections where you can see and hear information on the vehicle. Anyway, they sent me three extra copies of he DVD which i do not need. If you want one of the DVD'S send me your name and address and I will ship them to the first three people who email me. My email address is: pettyfeversk@aol.com
    and my name is Stephen
  • hk2lahk2la Member Posts: 53
    According to the Lexus manual, it says to polish/wax the "L" and "Lexus" emblems. I'm pretty sure that's what it said. But Sam Zaino said don't use his products on the emblems.
    What has everyone done? Also do you use anything on the door handles?
    I never heard of Zaino before reading about it here, so I have a lot of questions. Thanks again. And thanks sddlw for your last post.
  • tmarttmart Member Posts: 2,239
    This is the first I've heard of not using the Z on the Lexus emblems. I've used it on the black pearl emblems on my Platinum Edition and haven't noticed any problems. I do recall the Lexus manual saying not to rub the black pearls too hard. Don't know about the chrome or gold ones. Suggest you check out the Zaino posts in the Maint. and Repair topic, the Zaino website at WWW.zainobros.com. Tmart
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    I've been doing my emblems too. So far so good after 1.5 years on a 2000 ES. I do my chrome wheels too. Helps when it's time to clean the wheels.
  • tiger8tiger8 Member Posts: 120
    Giventhe current market, what would be the best price I could expect on an '02 ES300 with leather, xenons, and skid control?

    Sticker price with those options: $34,930

    Invoice: $30,790
  • tiger8tiger8 Member Posts: 120
    Can anyone recommend a Lexus dealer in the Chicago metro area?

    Thanks.
  • 66tall66tall Member Posts: 3
    What do you all do to clean the brake dust off the ES300 wheels?? I'm thinking about getting one, and it looks like the wheels would be a royal pain to get and keep clean, with all the nooks & crannies!
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Bought my 02 ES300 March 13. Just had 1000 mile check. Reported transmission delay issue and dealer said this is normal for ES300. To me, it is only bad in the sense that we look for perfection.

    As far as other noise goes, I have Toyo tires, and I basically think what noise there is is attributable to seat belts, vibrating front seats and articles I am carrying in the car.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    I bought my vehicle through Sam's Club. I have a loaded version (Nav, M/L, AVS, power screen, HID, cargo net) Mystic Sea w/ charcoal interior. I paid 37,775, not including license and tax. For those who do not like to negotiate, I recommend going through one of those clubs: Sam's or Costco. Consumer Reports April issue indicates that these clubs render the lowest average and high prices, but the best low prices are obtained through negotiation. I did a lot of research prior to my vehicle purchase and the Sam's Club deal equaled that of Cars Direct on the internet.
  • wwh11wwh11 Member Posts: 7
    I got a quote for a ES300 as follow:

    ----
    2002 Lexus ES300 4 Door Sedan equipped as follows
    Premium Package:

    Leather interior trim with Drivers Seat Memory/Outside
    Mirrors and Home Link system
    Power tilt/slide moon roof
    In Dash 6 CD Changer
    All Season Tires
    Wood and Leather Steering Wheel
    High Intensity Headlamps
    Vehicle Skid Control
    Heated front seats
    Cargo mat
    Wheel locks
    Cargo Net
    ---

    All for $33,320.00 plus $299.00 document fee (except tax and plate).

    Would those of you experts comment if this is a good deal? Thanks.
  • tiger8tiger8 Member Posts: 120
    Sounds like a pretty good price to me, but what's the sticker on all that? The only thing I'd question is the documents fee. I think dealers are using that to conceal an extra little markup. Isn't the docs. fee just the cost for a secretary typing up a few short documents relating to the purchase of the car? Since when should that cost $300? Try negotiating that down.
  • sliangsliang Member Posts: 50
    wwh11,
    The ES with all the options you listed has MSRP $36,380, and invoice price $31,950, so the price they quoted was reasonable. The doc fee is too high though, I paid only $45 for my 02 ES.
  • parnolaparnola Member Posts: 141
    When I got my car home from the dealer, I washed the wheels and applied Zaino to them. Now the brake dust wipes right off during a normal washing of the car.
  • hk2lahk2la Member Posts: 53
    That's the basic Premium Pkg. I paid about $32,500 in January, without VSC. Invoice w/o VSC is about $31,500 (and that includes their advertising). And MSRP is $35,293 (I'm looking at the sticker that was on my car). I also paid $45 for documentation fee. These $300 doc fees that various people have mentioned in diff. parts of the country is outrageous. What a rip.
  • tiger8tiger8 Member Posts: 120
    I'm new to this board. What's been the thinking on the sludge issue? Forget it because Lexus will repair it for 8 years? They've changed the engine? Etc.

    Transmission? Have their been problems with the 5-speed auto transmission? I thought I heard something about that, plus I believe Consumer Reports noted it as well. Any problems with it? Has it been corrected?

    Thanks.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    This board has many comments on both. I own an 02 ES300, have noted the transmission issue, and as far as I am concerned, it would definitely not dissuede me from buying this car. At my 1000 mile check, the dealer said that this "problem" is normal and dependant upon how the car is driven.

    As far as the sludge issue goes, just make sure you follow the advertised maintenance schedule and you should not have the problem.
  • tiger8tiger8 Member Posts: 120
    Thanks for the info. Can you tell me what transmission problems you've had? Sudden downshifting? Lugging at low speeds (Consumer REports mentioned this.) How do you like the car in general? Any negatives?
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    For those of you interested, the 2002 ES was recently crash tested by the Government's New Car Assessment Program and did quite well:

    35MPH Frontal:
    Driver: 5 Stars
    Pass: 5 Stars

    Side Impact:
    DRIVER: 5 stars
    DRIVER SIDE REAR PASSENGER: 4 stars

    Not too shabby, but nothing less than I would expect from vehicle with a $40K MSRP.
    ~alpha
  • ramzakramzak Member Posts: 9
    I'm about to plunk some money down on a 2002 ES300, do I need the navigation, NO! But,does anyone that has it, find that they couldn't live without it,and really likes it? Is it worth the cost, and does it get in the way of playing CD's.
    By the way, I have found that if you wanted the wood steering wheel, you have to purchase about $4000 worth of other option as well. I was really interested in the MBenz C-320, but the comfort and quietness of the Lexus is unbeatable.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    The wood steering wheel and shift knob is only about $300. It is a stand alone option.

    I, too, did not need the nav but got it. I absoultely love it. It is very accurate in helping find restaurants, etc. Also, it provides some piece of mind to know I always know where I am and where I'm going.

    It does not interfere with the CD as far as I'm concerned. The 6-disk CD changer is in the center console, and when playing the nav shows which CD of the six is playing, the time into the CD, etc. When playing the single CD the screen shows just that CD. You can choose between having it switch back to the nav, or having it stay on the CD mode.

    I really enjoy the nav and would say get it.
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Member Posts: 932
    What does the ES300's monthly service fee for the navigation system run? Is it about that much in all cars with navigation?
  • bananabanana Member Posts: 5
    There is no monthly fee for navigation. Maybe you're thinking of Lexus Link or Onstar.
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Member Posts: 932
    My mom is going to be ordering a company car within the next few months and if she gets the Avalon I am telling her to get the navigation system that will be in it for 2003. I wasn't sure if there was a subscription fee or what. However, my dad will argue against the NAV because (no offense to anyone, because I disagree with my dad) he thinks no person can be stupid enough to need help getting around wherever they live. I beg to differ because it has so many other functions than just telling you how to get somewhere. What else does the Lexus navigation do? And does anyone know if the Lexus navigation systems are used on Toyota products like the Camry and Land Cruiser? Thanks.
  • parnolaparnola Member Posts: 141
    coolguyky7 - all of the Toyota/Lexus vehicles use the Nav system provided by Denso.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    The transmission problem feels kind of like a timing issue, ie it feels like it misses. However, it is mostly controllable. This is not a car you want to "peel out" in. Short, apply-release sequences on the accelerator cause a sharp, jerky response.

    I was going to insist that my dealer let me test drive another ES300 to compare to mine, but so many on this board have "squawked"the problem that I feel fairly certain that ANY ES300 will do the same thing. I feel confident that you could repeat the problem in a test drive to see what it is like.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    I took a trip to LA last week and my Nav system made things so much more efficient. One of the most useful features is the Local Point of Interest List. If you select restaurants, it will provide a list of all the restaurants in the vicinity. Ditto for gas stations.
    I predict that Nav systems will be in all cars one day, and will replace the need for maps. It warns you ahead of time which lane you need to be in, which I found very useful in LA. No more missing exits or stressing out at the last minute. If you take a wrong turn, the Nav system automatically adjusts the route.

    The downside - it does not work in a detailed manner in non metropolitan areas, so you might want to check the documentation to see if it will be useful to you.

    I purchased the Nav in order to get the other goodies that come packaged in the deal. The Mark Levinson stereo is wonderful and I like the AVS, etc.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    My dealer informed me that the residual value on a leased vehicle with the Nav package will be a lower percentage than that of a vehicle with a premium package. This means they expect the price of the Nav option to go down.

    I plan to keep my car for a long time, so I wanted a navigation system.

    By the way, the auto reviews in consumer reports do not mention that you have manual control of the audio on buttons outside of the computer control. I don't find the audio control awkward at all; just a little tricky to learn.
  • jmezzjmezz Member Posts: 36
    could anyone offer info on lease prices for this car 36-39 months 15k miles

    thanks
  • tiger8tiger8 Member Posts: 120
    Thanks for the transmission tip. I'll check for transmission gliches when I test drive it.

    Do you have skid and traction control, and, if so, did you have to buy virtually every other option to get it?
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    When I puchased my vehicle, through Sam's Club, Lexus was (and still is) selling two trim packages:

    One called Premium, which seems to be well documented on various web sites, lexus.com and carsdirect.com. Had I selected this option it would have cost me about $34,500 (Sam's Club price is a no-haggle price). This package has leather interior, regular sound system and other options that you can look up on the web sites. This option does not have a CD changer, Nav, Mark Levinson sound upgrade, AVS, or Power Sun Shade. I am not sure whether it has heated seats, VSC or HID. I am fairly certain it has the wood/leather steering wheel and other basic interior options like the more loaded trim package.

    The other package, which cost me $37,775, includes everything except chrome wheels. When you visit the web sites, you have to build this option. It has single CD player like the premium, but with a 6 CD changer in the console. I have HID, Nav, Mark Levinson upgrade, sun shade, heated seats AVS, in console CD changer. My MSRP was $39,963. I paid $2500 over invoice because the car is in demand. When going through Sam's Club, they send you to a fleet manager (as opposed to a regular salesman) and they just quote you an amount over invoice.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Do try and take everything all personal items out of the car when judging how noisy it is. Mine is so quiet, I think the seat belts jiggling, the noise made by vibration of where the seat belts are attached to the wall, and the vibration made by the seats (especially the empty passenger seat, bother me more than they would in a car where you can hear real noise.
    Whenever I have something like a purse on the seat or items in the console, the noise from these items is louder than that coming from the road or from the chassis of the vehicle.

    The transmission is kind of an irritant, but I traded in a Camry LE and the ES300 was so superior to that, that the transmission did not bother me at all at first. I guess life is rough when expectations are high.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Go to the "Lexus LS" board for a detailed discussion on the woes associated with getting upgrades to the Nav DVD. Apparently, the LS has had a Nav system in it for longer than the ES, and there is a larger experience base there than on this board.The discussion occurs during the last two weeks of April; from about the 13th to the 26th.

    Apparently, some folks have a 2002 version of the DVD. I have a 2001 version, even though I've only had my car for a month.

    Owners on the "Lexus LS" page complain that dealers promised free upgrades for a period of time, only to have the dealers back out.Upgrades cost anywhere from $300 - $500, which everyone pretty much agrees is outrageous. One of the posts referred to subscribing to LLink, but I don't know what that is.
  • rtorrecartorreca Member Posts: 74
    The vibrating noise comes from the passenger door I think. It happens even on smooth roads. I don't think it's the seatbelt because even when seat is occupied and seatbelt fastened, noise is still there. It's also not things from the console. I'll have it checked out on my 1000 mile service.

    As far as tranny, I guess I just miss my 99 honda accord ex v6 coupe - in my opinion has a smoother transmission and stronger acceleration. I always believed Toyota built better transmissions than Honda but Lexus proved me wrong.

    I guess I expected much more from a 36K vehicle. After all, shouldn't a 36K vehicle be better at EVERYTHING compared to a 25K vehicle in a lower class? Apparently not.

    Well, such is life - can't win 'em all, nothing's perfect. Life goes on. Lessons have been learned. There are far more important things than worrying about the car I am driving. I should just be thankful I HAVE a car. And it's a Lexus to boot. I'm done whining.
  • tiger8tiger8 Member Posts: 120
    Toyota's transmissions are, in general, first rate. There is obviously a glitch on the new ES300. Consumer Reports says that the 4-speed transmission on the Camry is better and smoother than the 5-speed on the ES300, and that likewise the transmission on the previous ES300 is better than the current one. Strange. Maybe they will modify it some time during this model year (or next).

    I'm going to check with local dealer and see whether I can order an ES300 with a different array of options than the two you mentioned. I don't want the Levinson, NAV, or the wood steering wheel, but do want xenons and skid control.

    Thanks for your help.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Check out the following excerpt from Message 30, Sept 13, 2000 on "The Lexus LS" board. The description of the way the LS transmission worked sounds similar to that of the 2002 ES300. I can't say the problems were/are the same, but the symptomes sound similar.

    ===========================================
    "....It was obviously not a simple defect, but a basic design problem. I’ve been driving the car for 18 months and 30,000 miles, all along hoping I would get used to this quirk, but that hasn’t happened. An avid reader of Car & Driver and Road & Track, I read each issue hoping to find a reference to this problem, anywhere, with regard to any vehicle. There was never any mention of it in regard to LS 400s, but there were two references to it, about other vehicles.

    The problem? What the technical people refer to as “throttle tip-in.” I noticed almost from the beginning that it is impossible to drive my
    LS400 both quickly and smoothly. I had to choose one or the other. Quick means quick, not fast. When you push the accelerator pedal the car lunges. Only by pushing very gently can you avoid the lunge, and the few seconds, or even tenths of a second lost inthat way deprives the vehicle of quickness.

    Example: You get a brief chance to jump into an adjacent lane while moving in slow, jammed freeway traffic. You hit the pedal
    hurriedly to take advantage of the brief opportunity before the car behind closes the gap. The LS400 lunges forward awkwardly into the lane, and then you have to hit the brake with a jolt to avoid hitting the car in front. Instead of a smooth zip zip operation, it’s a
    lunge-jolt maneuver. You look and feel clumsy.

    Example: You’re driving in heavy but steadily moving traffic on the freeway when you notice that there’s a jerk in an adjacent lane who is thinking about jumping in front of you, even though you have left less than a minimum safe distance between you and the car in front. If he succeeds in doing this, you will be forced to apply the brake. (I consider being forced to apply my brake to accomodate a lane changer as being “cut off,” because I devoutly believe that one should only make a lane change when he/she can do sowithout affecting the forward progress of the car you are pulling in front of). So you hit the accelerator to close the gap even further in an attempt to deter the jerk. The LS 400 lunges forward and then you have to brake because you got too close, to quickly to the car in front. If the attempt to gain speed quickly results in a throttle downshift, then there is a hesitation, a roar, and a lunge, which is even worse.

    Let me note in fairness to the LS 400 that in the vacinity of 50-60 mph and faster there is usually enough torque in 5th or 4th gear so
    that the car will gain speed smoothly and quickly without having to experience the lunging, which usually occurs at lower speeds.

    Now I know that this lunging doesn’t have to be. I previously owned an ES300 which was both smooth and quick. The maneuvers I described above could be accomplished with that car with ease. The ES300 lacked high-end poop, but that’s another story."
    ============================
  • texas83texas83 Member Posts: 107
    I've had my car about six weeks. On the plus side, it rides smoother than any car I've ever had, has an outstanding stereo system and the decor is exceptional. It also gets pretty good gas mileage.

    On the downside my sunroof rattles and the dealership doesn't know how to fix it. They think they will have to replace the whole thing. A Lexus engineer will be in sometime next month to look at it. The ground noise is annoying. I've seen some really stupid posts on this board about their cars being so quiet that they are noisy. Sorry, that's the biggest oxymoron I've ever heard. The quietness is above average at best, but definitely not exceptional like noted in Consumer Reports. I drove a loaner for a bit and found it to be the same. My test drive was on very smooth concrete, so I wouldn't have noticed. Also, there seems to be a rattle in my right passenger door, but I can't seem to identify it. The wood trim scratches easily and Lexus has no way to remove the scratches. A carwash brushed the vacuum hose across my console wood and scratched it. Lexus said sorry. That'll be $900 to replace it. I'm taking it up with the carwash.

    The transmission is a piece of crap. About one in five times, when I need accelleration, I can give it the gas and nothing happens for a couple of seconds. The RPM's jump to nearly redline and then the car begins to accelerate as the RPM's fall. That's just the opposite of how it should happen. Nearly caused me to get rear ended when I tried to change from a lane that wasn't moving to a lane that was. Also, it downshifts at times. When I accelerate for a bit and release the foot feed after a couple of seconds the car suddenly slows as the transmission downshifts. I can watch the RPM's jump as it does this.

    To say the least, I'm very frustrated. The dealership told me that Lexus recognizes the problem with the transmission but they don't know how to fix it. At least that's what they say. Lexus is monitoring the problem, and with enough complaints, will hopefully do something about it. Not all cars have this problem and the loaner they gave me shifted fine.

    Please loudly complain to your dealership about the transmission. I think it's actually a dangerous issue. The more we complain, hopefully, Lexus will take some action.
  • tiger8tiger8 Member Posts: 120
    You're right. Despite offering a slew of individual options, Lexus now is building the ES300 in only two packages. If you want xenons, instead of paying just about $500 for them, basically you're going to have to buy virtually every other option, whether you want them or not. Thus, I don't want NAV, Levinson, wood steering wheel, etc., but if I want xenons, that's what I have to get. In other words, xenons are going to cost me $3,000-$4,000, packaged with other options. No way. And with the transmission problems, I'm reconsidering. Consumer Reports said that the loaded V6 Camry actually ranked higher than the ES300, has a better transmission, handled better, etc. And next year they'll probably have xenons as a stand alone option (for $500-$600).
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Do you not want the Nav/ ML or do you just not want to pay for it? Both are great.

    I disagree that the Camry handles better. I tested the Camry VLE and SE several times before I opted for the ES300, and even considering the transmission issue, I prefer the ES300. My boyfriend, who is very picky, drove my car for a whole weekend, and even though we both noticed the transmission problem, it did not bother us. Both of us, however, are "smooth" drivers. If you like to "dart" around, don't get the ES300.

    I do NOT like the ride of the Camry V6 XLE at all, and the SE, although it handles better than the XLE, is too rough for me to enjoy on a day-to-day basis. Had I not opted for the Lexus, I would probably have bought the Camry V6 SE.

    Another note on the Camry - my boyfriend, who owns a 1994 Camry V6 XLE, pointed out that although they made the new Camry bigger, they did not increase the power on the engine to match.

    I did not test an LE, but I understand they did upgrade the 4 cylinder engine, and it is quite peppy.
  • clarkramclarkram Member Posts: 7
    I agree with tiger8 on this. I am a smooth driver and havent been bothered by the transmission. Just my .02, but if you are really concerned about "closing the gap" to stop some jerk from squeezing in front of you, then you should rethink your priorities. If you stop the guy what did you save? maybe 1/10th of a second?
  • ruggedlandruggedland Member Posts: 13
    Sorry to hear your problems. My car has about 3400 miles on it, and so far I haven't noticed any significant problem with the transmission. Yes it's a little sluggish on occasion, but the response has been good in general (I drive moderately aggressively). I also didn't experience the noise in the passenger door as others have posted.

    I did notice another problem in my car though. When I accelerate from a full stop, I sometimes hear a short clicking noise from the back of the car. This happens only when there's a full tank of gas. When I asked the service rep to check it out, he said it's probably due to gas lushing in the tank, which I find a bit odd. Another gripe I posted earlier about his car is the brake pedal making noice every time you step off it. Well I'm almost used to it now, and it's not getting on my nerve that much.

    My experience with this car has been mostly positive. I like the new exterior design a lot more now than before. The head light looks quite good, especially against a lighter color (mine is millenium silver). The best thing is there are still relatively few new ES300 on the road, compared to the like of BMW or Acura, which are everywhere you look.
  • yonyon Member Posts: 7
    At the risk of a tagent...

    The reason to close the gap is not to save time or "stay ahead" of the other guy. It's to discourage the dangerous behavior he's engaged in. Pointless weaving in and out of steady traffic is dangerous---every lane change raises the possibility of an accident. What if the guy in front of me hits the brakes just as the jerk cuts in?

    So from my perspective, either I close the gap and tailgate (not exactly safe, but...) or I let the guy cut me off, which now means now I'm tailgating anyway *and* have had a dangerous maneuver performed directly in front of me. I'd rather pick the "one evil" rather than the "two evil" alternative.

    Just IMHO...
  • kjc13kjc13 Member Posts: 1
    I have 2001 ES300 and am very happy with the vehicle except for an itch that is being scratched so frequently it is turning into a major rash. The cupholders in the front seat are not deep enough to maintain their hold on a 20oz plastic bottle or a reuseable plastic coffee cup while making a turn. If I make a left turn, the cup or bottle is launched into the passenger seat. Since the car is also my office on many occasions, this minor annoyance has created major problems.

    The dealer examined the cupholders and said there were no problems. Is anyone else experiencing this problem or has developed a solution?
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