Lexus ES 300/ES 330

rtorreca · June 2002

I'm ready to sell my '02 ES300. Took delivery on 3/31/02 and currently has 3400 miles. Anyone have any idea what the trade-in or private resale value of this car is currently? I know I'm gonna take a bath on selling this but I cannot stand it anymore. Almost got into an accident due to it's hesitating tranny. POS.

I simply cannot accept that a $35K vehicle has a worse transmission than a $24k camry v6 or accord v6.

Don't know what I'll replace it with but definitely not buying Lexus ever again.

Car details:
Onyx Blue
Premium Pkg
Heated Seats
VSC
HID

peter7777 · June 2002

All the purchase prices that I've seen mentioned here for the ES300 appear to include multiple options. Has anyone on the East Coast bought one with no options or one option? If so how much below MSRP were you able to get? All I really want is the leather seat option. Is $31,500 plus $575 delivery about right?

justfind6 · June 2002

I bought a set of Cannon WeatherTech floor mats for my ES 300. They trap all the snow I managed to carry on my boots the last few winters.
They are specific to each vehicle, and can usually be found in an appropriate color.

Just go to www.google.com and search for cannon weathertech

The place I bought mine usually has a full-page ad in all the major monthly car mags, such as Automobile, Car & Driver, Road & Track, Motor Trend.

Dave

verozahl · June 2002

My experience with Lexus dealers? Couple of years ago! Well, they weren't too happy in the morning when they had to get to kick me off their property! Not my fault, my hand got stuck in the SC300's door handle, um, right. Killer thunderstorm, it was. Toughed it out, though, to get them to talk to me when they showed up for work in the morning. No dice. They mean MSRP at Lexus! (T_T)

Friends' Dad traded in his old-style ES300 for a TrailBlazer! Can you say "no style" or "no class"?!

tk_det · June 2002

I sent you a test message again at 6:51 AM EDT. I did not get any message back from the first one indicating any problems with delivery. If your hotmail security is set to maximum, only those in your address and on your safelist will be delivered. Try sending one to me at tk_det@hotmail.com.

Best regards

atoews · June 2002

Many do not have the transmission problem at all. Why don't you test drive several other vehicles?
If ALL vehicles have the problem, then I guess you will have to sell your car.

On the other hand, if you drive one with no problem, and Lexus still denies there is a problem, you could ask if they will swap transmissions with the other car. If nothing else, you might elect to pay for a new transmission, negotiating ahead of time that if there is a problem, you will not accept the new transmission. Maybe there is something wrong with a batch of transmissions that are in vehicles sold in the February/March time frame.

I also have a transmission problem, but I suspect yours is worse than mine is.

I think that you might kick yourself if, down the road, Lexus decides to replace faulty transmissions at no cost to the owner. If there is a problem, Lexus HAS to fix it sometime and a new transmission might be cheaper than the depreciation on selling a new car.

auser72 · June 2002

Has anyone heard about a new 3.3 liter engine for the 2004 es300? Same engine to be used in new 2003 rx330.

aceking2000 · June 2002

I agree. Transmission problem is not like a problem of scratches or noise. It is a BIG problem. I highly recommend that you ask Lexus to fix this problem before you try anything else. The first year depreciation of a car is usually the highest. If you sell your car now. I suspect that you will lose more than 10 grand due to depreciation. So think twice!

chipcourt · June 2002

I was offered $33,850 for a 2002 Milennium Silver ES 300 w/ premium pkg, heated seats, hid lights & wood steering wheel trim. Is this good?

aceking2000 · June 2002

I agree. Transmission problem is not like a problem of scratches or noise. It is a BIG problem. I highly recommend that you ask Lexus to fix this problem before you try anything else. The first year depreciation of a car is usually the highest. If you sell your car now. I suspect that you will lose more than 10 grand due to depreciation. So think twice!

atoews · June 2002

A thought occurred to me. The biggest impediment to Lexus admitting to and fixing the transmission problem is those who do NOT have the problem.

Why? Because if Lexus admits the problem (and I still think it is likely a design problem, not one on individual vehicles), all of you who do not have the problem, or experience the problem are likely to want the "fix" anyway, even though you claim to be happy with your cars.

So, if 1/4 of us have a problem, it will cost Lexus three times as much as it should to fix it. Lexus has to weigh the cost/benefit to having 1/4 of their customers unhappy versus what it would cost them to fix the cars of those who are satisfied but who would demand the fix anyway.

So, lenscap and kreativ and aceking2000, if I reported that Lexus fixed my transmission with, say a 2003 ES300 transmission upgrade, would you then want to demand a fix from your dealer under warranty?

joeguy1 · June 2002

Can anyone recommend any good car wax to use on the Lexus? I have a white ES-300 and it's time to put on its first coat of wax.

aceking2000 · June 2002

Joeguy:

Try Zaino. Many people recommend it and it's one of the top products.

Atoews:

That depends. Just like you said earlier, you did not want the dealer to break something else by fixing this problem. So do I. Honestly, my transmission is perfect and I see no reason of making any changes toward it. In fact, this is one of the best transmission I have ever experienced. My car knows when to shift from the 1st to the 2nd. Not like Honda Accord, which stays in 1st for a long period of time.

I believe that you and others have the issues regarding the transmission. I would like to see if there if these problems occur on the car manufactured after a certain date - say April or May.

We should keep this discussion going just to find out what is really the cause of bad transmission on some of the 2002 Lexus ES300

kreativ · June 2002

lenscap - personal preference on the Klasse (from Germany). I liked the 2-step Klasse system, with the first taking off the dealer-applied wax and laying a foundation for the sealant glaze. The first step can also be used standalone, which is what I do on other cars. I've heard enough about the high alkalinity of Dawn harming the plasticizers in the clear coat that I'd rather avoid this step if possible. If you have Zaino and am happy with it, I'd stick with it. I've heard Klasse is more durable (they claim up to 6 months with AIO, and up to a year with AIO + 1 layer SG), but it's hard to say really. I currently have 4 layers of Klasse sealant glaze on my '02 ES. AIO/SG works great for wheels too.

kreativ · June 2002

The "fix" i had in mind was a software update to the transmission program. This is easily done, so yes, I'd ask for the update next time I'm at the dealer. But I haven't driven the car hard yet, so I may just not have experienced any of the described issues yet. I believe one of the issues was a hesitation when flooring the pedal at a slow speed.

kreativ · June 2002

My guess is 2004 for the ES330. They haven't announced anything yet, and aren't likely to until it's about to be released. They wouldn't want to sabotage sales before then.

atoews · June 2002

I called Desert Lexus regarding the transmission problem. The sales manager there informed me that all Lexuses have "smart" transmissions, which adapt to the driver's habits. (Note: I remember you saying this also, slaing). It would not do much good to test a different Lexus because its computer would have different info in it than mine does. Furthermore, it would probably not do much good to reset the transmission firmware - one alternative - because my driving style would just cause it to return to where it is now, unless I changed my driving style.

The "smart" transmission issue seems very weird to me. Does it mean perhaps that the transmission will not respond optimally in driving conditions that are exceptional to the driver? What about drivers who have different styles depending upon where they drive?

Note that in an earlier post, I noted that an LS430 owner complained of a similar symptom in their car.

As a last resort, rtorreca may ask if the dealer will reset his transmission computer. Maybe he did some driving that caused an exceptional situation.

In a humorous way, I asked the Desert Lexus sales representative whether my car was trying to tell me that I am a lousy driver. Oh, well. :-)

coolguyky7 · June 2002

Call my crazy, but I seem to remember something about some car having something that adjusts to the driver's habits. It's a vague memory though.

rtorreca · June 2002

I actually talked (read complained) to the dealership about this the first week I had the car and was told the same story that it has a "smart" tranny that needs to "learn" my driving pattern. It's also because they changed from the "cable" type to fly-by-wire. When I drove their 02 es300 loaner, it's transmission felt exactly the same as mine.

Just to clarify, the tranny problem I have is the "shuddering" when slowing down to turn. There is also hesitation when passing and merging from a complete stop. What really pissed me off what when I tried to merge into traffic, it hesitated and almost got into a serious accident. My wife and daughter was with me at the time.

Prior to this car, I had a 99 exv6 accord coupe, which in my opinion, had one of the smoothest shifting tranny out there. I could be going 80mph (not that I drive that fast all the time) and still pass another vehicle with nary a complaint from the tranny.

coolguyky7 · June 2002

I was driving down the road today and a Millennium Silver 2002 ES300 drove by me. It was very nice looking. Call me crazy (again) but is there just something about the front design (and maybe the back) that just incredibly stands out? I don't mean to say it's outlandish or ugly in design, but rather that it's just very substantial looking and attention grabbing? Toyota has done the same thing with the new Corolla. There is just something about the new Corolla's design (especially in silver) that gives it a unique and solid look.

aceking2000 · June 2002

Glad to see so many posts today. I think we should keep it this way.

Went to the dealer today because I wanted to know if the rattle on the passenger side was normal or not. A sales rep. rode the car with me and he did hear the noise but was unable to identify the source of it. One thing that I know now is that the noise is NOT the rattle. Rattle is more like a metalic sound but mine is so minor that you really have to pay attention to hear it. And it only happens when the road is bumpy - road condition is Michigan is really not that great. I heard it's just the material noise which I am not going to be too concerned about.

The story is, I asked him to try the loaner and it still has the same noise. As a result, I believe my car is normal. No more complaints about the noise.

About the tranny problem several of you experienced, I don't really know if it's the "smart" technology of the tranny. However, mine started to fit into my driving habit the first day I got the car. I am still "training" it though.

I hope everyone would love his/her Lexus ES300 eventually.

kreativ · June 2002

Lexus has been using ECT-i ("smart tranny") for some time now (not sure about the previous ES, but in the LS). No more Normal/Power ECT switch like in my older LS...

Personally, I think it's a an easy excuse by the dealer to blame it on the driver-adaptive learning feature any time someone complains about the tranny. If it's supposed to adapt to the driver, then the driver should be happier driving it vs. a car without a smart tranny.

aceking2000 · June 2002

I found out today that the minor "noise" comes from the passenger side is not something serious. It is actually the head rest of the passenger seat! After realizing the source of the noise, I lowered the head rest and guess what, the noise is gone. Now the car is really quiet and I enjoy it a lot.

trmga · June 2002

I'm ready to purchase an ES-300 with Nav/ML. Will be contacting dealerships in the Raleigh, NC/Norfolk/Richmond/Northern VA/Washington, DC area. Has anyone gotten a particularly good deal from a dealership in any of these areas lately?

kreativ · June 2002

It's been a while, and the mileage issue hasn't been touched for some time. This was probably the #1 complaint half a year ago.

I reset the avg. MPG meter when I took it on the freeway, driving more or less a consistent 65mph for a half hour or so, and could only manage 25mpg. I'm using Premium unleaded. Doesn't look to be very good vs. the 21/29 spec.

jcarberry · June 2002

I am having difficulty with a very tight oil drain plug on my 1997 Lexus ES300 and am about to use a breaker bar as an aid, but before causing any damage I thought I should make absolutely sure that I should indeed be wrenching this plug in a clockwise direction. That is, with the wrench handle facing the front of the car, I am attempting to turn the wrench toward the right front tire. Am I or on the correct track here, or is there some reverse logic with this part on this vehicle for some reason? Many thanks in advance for any info!

alpha01 · June 2002

So what you are saying is that you are achieving 25 MPG in V6 near luxury car weighing 3400lbs and you arent satisfied? What did you expect? Those EPA tests are borderline useless.. have you ever seen the specs on which they are based? As a point of reference, I feel that it is better to base your expectation on average fuel economy published in magazines such as Car and Driver. And I know everyone has their issues with Consumer Reports, but if theres one thing that I have found to be true, it is their mileage estimates. By that standard, you are doing quite well- they only averaged 21 or 22 MPG for the ES300.
~alpha

tk_det · June 2002

I use premium in my 02 ES300. I commute 30 miles each way on a freeway. That, with the odd evening and weekend errands is giving me "city" mileage of between 25.5 and 26.2 mph.

I recently took a trip from Michigan to North Carolina. I used all Inter states. "Country" mileage was between 28.8 and 30.0 mph depending on the terrain.

I run the AC most of the time. On pleasant days when I turn it off it does not seem to have an appreciable effect on mileage. A surprising but pleasing result as it means I am not paying a price in fuel efficiency to ride in comfort.

I got the car last January. My mileage has gotten better as the weather warmed. When it's cold the engine has to run a richer fuel mixture until it warms up.

I have always used Shell in all my cars. This is not a commercial but I recently got their Shell Master Card which gives me a 5% discount off the price of their gas. If you buy Shell gas 9 times a year there is no annual fee and they credit you the 5% in the very next month's bill. I'm running on premium for the price of intermediate. Go figure!

aceking2000 · June 2002

The MPG on the car should improve after you drive it for a while. Right now my car only has around 22MPG but I am not too worried about it since I just got the car for about 1 and a half weeks.

I talked to the dealer the other day and they said it was not really necessary to use the premium fuel. The engine is designed to take the mid-grade fuel. So if you want to save some money you can definitely do that. I will put the medium grade fuel into my car from now on and will let you know about the MPG.

TK's car really has some of the greatest MPG I have ever seen. It may depend on individuals' driving behaviors too.

By the way, I am feeling happy that the noise problem has been resolved.

sliang · June 2002

Last week, I took my family on a trip to the Disneyland. I drove all the way from the Bay Area to Anaheim in L.A., and I was on the free way all the time. The average mileage was about 27 mpg, and I was driving 75 mph most of the time except when I was getting closer to the city. The total mileage is about 390 miles one way, and I didn't even need to refill the gas. I always use premium gas since I believe that is required for qualifying the ES as ULEV, plus I won't bother with the saving of using a lower grade gas. The average mileage for the return trip is about 25.8 MPG, it could be because it was a little bit windy that day. For my daily trip to the work, the mileage is about 22.5 MPG, and it is 50/50 city and highway. I am quite happy with the mileage performance of my ES.
Also my transmission is getting smoother and more responsive than it was at 5K miles, I am now close to 9K miles.

aceking2000 · June 2002

sliang. Good mileage. You are right. The car does need Premium guess to be certified for ULEV. So if you are environmental friendly, you should definitely use the premium gas. I do not think it is directly related to the MPG though.

Btw, do you still have the noise from the passenger side? Let me know. Thanks.

kreativ · June 2002

It sounds like you decided to extract the "25mpg" figure from my post without bothering to read the rest of it. I was merely stating the avg. MPG I got on a pure freeway run at a consistent 65mph. How in the world can that be compared to the "average MPG" you report from CR? Obviously, they don't base their average on a pure highway run at a consistent speed. I'd be happy to get the average MPG they got for all my driving in the ES.
I have read in a car magazine where they got >30mpg on highway driving in the '02 ES (with <20mpg for city driving).

mbnut1 · June 2002

To remove all most any bolt you should be turning the bolt in the counterclockwise direction. there are exceptions but I rather doubt your drain plug is one of them.

atoews · June 2002

On the freeways, I have gotten between about 27 to 29+ mpg. It definitely depends upon how much of the drive is on a downhill vs. an uphill slope.

I cannot prove to myself whether airconditioning affects things, but I think it does a little.

In town, the number of times I visit a drive through restaurant has the biggest influence on gas mileage. I can get about 21 mpg if I don't use drive-throughs.

By the way, I generally get about 1mpg better actual mileage than the average indicated on the gauge.

atoews · June 2002

Your experience confirms mine, in a way. Your trip to Disneyland probably involved more downhill driving, wherease the trip back was probably uphill.

I discovered the relationship between uphill/downhill and mpg by watching the instantaneous mpg gauge. The mileage definitely drops when driving uphill.

gened1 · June 2002

Can someone tell me when the 2003 ES300 will be out? I would think the 2002 would drop in price or have some rebates. If you have any info I would appreciate your posts.
Thanks
Gene

kreativ · June 2002

2002 ES went on sale late September, so the 2003 ES should be introduced with little fanfare around that time. In LA, you can already get a base ES for a couple hundred dollars over invoice without any negotiating.

aceking2000 · June 2002

My dealer suggested medium grade (89). I am interested in what others are using for their 2002 Lexus ES300. Thanks.

steveulric · June 2002

I'm thinking of purchasing one of these 2 vehicles. any thoughts from current owners ???

neuroguy · June 2002

Just wanted to say hello to everyone from a new 2002 ES300 owner of 5 weeks now. It's Millenium Silver with my region's Premium package that basically includes everything except the ML sound system and the NAV. They also added some dealer options including a complete set of floor and trunk mats, locking wheel lugs and the trunk cargo net. If anyone wants to take a peak:

http://home.carolina.rr.com/jonkennedy/lexus1.htm

Also from there, you can read the horror story that was my previous car - a 2002 Jaguar X-Type that I had for about 5 months.

Just had my car in for it's courtesy 1 month checkup at Hendrick Lexus here in Charlotte, NC. Didn't have a thing to complain about! I don't have the tranny problem or any rattles. The buying process, delivery, and everything else at the dealership has been first-rate and very professional. While I was in the service drive, I asked someone at the desk about the transmission problems that have been discussed here. Well, that got everyone's attention! They told me that it's a known problem and that Lexus is working on a software update to fix it, but they didn't know when it would be available. They explained that it's basically caused by the computer-controlled "learing" transmission system, and usually occurs around 45-50 mph, and that the new "drive-by-wire" throttle control is also involved. I'm sure there will be a TSB issued when the software update is available. I guess the reason I haven't noticed any problem in this area is that my driving style doesn't bring it out. Must not be that agressive, or have not been in a situation that reveals it (after 600+ miles).

As for mileage, I've been getting 19.0 since delivery, most of it driving in the city here (have not reset it yet).

So, hello to everyone here - see ya around!

neuroguy · June 2002

For every car I've ever had, the oil pan drain plug has turned counter-clockwise...as looking at it from below the car. I sure hope you haven't gotten it snugged up way too tight from working on it as you've described!

cwdavis1 · June 2002

I am told that sometime in August, we should find out something about the 2003--what changes if any there may be. And in Sept.-the car will be available.

Regarding the I-35 and ES 300, there has been a number of messages but where within the 2,692 messages posted to date--I could not tell you. However, both are excellent choices. I have tested both and will be purchasing the ES within 2-3 months. The I-35 is sportier and more powerful. The ES is more refined and classier in my opinion. The ES is also in it's first year of design whereas the I-35 has been around a while and it is uncertain when, if at all, the new design will be forthcoming. Best thing to do, of course, is to test drive both and then make your decision. Resale will be better with the ES.

kreativ · June 2002

The most talked about competitors to the ES300 are the Acura TL/TL-S and Infiniti I35. They have quite a bit more power, ES is more refined and luxurious. '02 ES is first year of new generation, both '02 TL and I35 are nearing the end of their current generation.
TL will have a new design next year. From what I've heard, I35 is being dropped soon. There's a good chance the ES330 will come out in 2004 to compete with competing companys' new offerings. (i.e. give Acura one year in the spotlight with their new TL, take it back the next year with the ES330).

If you have any interest in the TL, wait until the new TL comes out before buying. The new one should up the luxury quotient to better compete with the ES. The current TL already has 260hp, so no worries there. The ES330 won't even have that much HP.

As for me, I'm happy with my '02 ES, but am waiting on the new '04 GS as a replacement for my aging LS. Seeing what they did with the ES in terms of luxury and refinement, I can't wait to see what the '04 GS will be like.

fwatson · June 2002

The only use I have ever seen for "left hand threads" is to avoid fasteners unscrewing themselves by torque.

Because an oil drain plug has NO torque on it in use, I would be certain 99.9% that your car has "right hand threads" on it's drain plug.

When you finally get it out, hopefully without stripping the threads, you should seriously consider buying a Fram SureDrain from WalMart, to replace the plug. You will then have no reason to repeat the problem you are having.

I have SureDrain valves on both my '95 Olds and '01 Millenia, and I would never go back to removable plugs. Good luck with your dilemma. May I suggest you have a mechanic remove it this time. If he screws it up, he is out of luck, not you.

lenscap · June 2002

I personally would stay away from the I35. It was designed and built during Nissan's period of cost-cutting. Although well-built, it has many cheaper elements (such as non-independent 4-wheel suspension). Plus, the car is being dropped for sure in the next year or two. Who wants a discontinued car?

The TL is a very nice car for the money. If the ES 300 is a bit too much for what you want to spend, or you want something sportier, I think the TL is a great choice.

By the way, remember all the criticism heaved on Lexus for not boosting the ES 300's power when it was introduced last fall (which does not bother me)? Well, look at Mercedes' two newest models. Both the all-new 2003 E320 and CLK320 are about one full second slower 0-60 than their 2002 counterparts. Their times have dropped to around the 8.0-second range, mostly because the cars have the same engines but are heavier than before.

coolguyky7 · June 2002

Congratulations on your new ES300! It will serve you well, especially compared to that Jaguar. Is there any reason you chose it over the ES300 in the first place?

neuroguy · June 2002

When I was shopping for a replacement for my '98 Audi A4 Quattro last fall, I knew I didn't want another Audi, but I sure wanted the 4WD. So I narrowed my choices down to the X-Type and the BMW 325xi. I chose the X-Type for it's uniqueness - just to have a Jaguar at that price, I guess, and it's better interior appointments and style. The BMW rode more harshly than the Jag - it was more like the Audi, and I wanted a softer ride. Plus, while I was impressed by the BMW overall, I wasn't impressed that much by the local dealership here. I was worried about the service dept. and a co-worker had a bad experience with their 325xi - bad drive train, and they weren't treated that well. I *thought* I was going to get treated like a Jaguar owner, too, by Scott Jaguar here in Charlotte. (Boy, was that a joke!) The topper was this: I left the brochures for both the X-Type and the 325xi on my desk at work. All the gals just went goo-goo over the Jag, and almost all of them just ignored the BMW. :-) Well, I'll never make that mistake again. From my experience so far, I should have stayed in the Toyota family when I traded my '92 Celica for that Audi A4 and gotten a Lexus at that time! I had a '88 and '92 Celica and only had one problem with the car and one problem with the dealer's serivce dept. in all those 10 years. But, in '98 they still hadn't upped the power in the Celica and I wanted a bit more zoom, and the '98 Celica's driver's cockpit had become more cramped (don't know if it was just me or the car ).

texas83 · June 2002

Well... I've posted this before, but really feel I need to drive it home to any buyers possibly considering this car. There are so many really nice things about the car... interior, smooth ride, stereo, etc. But, I consider this a dangerous car because the transmission is such junk. I've read so many postings of how others are trying to drive in different gears, or do something to enhance the defective problem, but the fact is a new car, especially a Lexus, should drive off the lot in good condition. Plain and simple, when you hit the gas the car should move.

As the Lexus dealer explained it to me, the computer system does not allow the engine to communicate properly with the transmission. It requires a software fix. That's exactly my problem. Whether I'm driving up the various floors of my parking garage at work, or most notably, when I need power for lane changes, there is a terrible delay. I can hit the foot feed and watch the RPM's go to 6000 and the car barely moves. Three instances have caused me concern. Once, I was stalled in traffic and saw an opening to move to the lane next to me. I hit accelerator and nothing happened. By the time I moved into the lane the oncoming car really had to hit their brakes. Another time I was approaching an intersection as the light was turning yellow. Thinking I could safely move thru the intersection, I hit the gas and nothing happened. That light was soooo red when I went thru that intersection. Most recently I was coming out of a grocery store parking lot needing to cross the road thru on coming traffic. Thinking I had plenty of time, I hit the gas, the RPM's went up and nothing happened. Cars had to slow to let me thru. To make matters worse, the stupid car downshifts after you accelerate. And, occassionally it sticks in a gear and I have to hit the foot feed to make it shift. Plainly, the transmission is garbage and Lexus has said they may not have a fix for six months. Don't buy this car until they do.

kreativ · June 2002

Have you tried another '02 ES to see whether it has the same issue as yours? '02 ES loaners from the dealer are good for this purpose.

Enough bad publicity from those unhappy with the new transmission should speed up the time it takes to get a fix out.

atoews · June 2002

I don't understand why you and I and rtorreca (???) and slaing obviously are feeling the same symptoms, and have had the dealers tell us that the design is the problem and that rtorreca drove a loaner and felt the same problem but WHY the majority of owners feel nothing.

This is my frustration. It makes absolutely no sense to me. Unless you and I and rtorreca are willing to sell our vehicles at a loss (you may have noticed that rtorreca is ready to do just that), how will we EVER resolve the transmission issue if the majority do not feel the problem?

Lexus ES 300/ES 330

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