Lexus ES 300/ES 330

atoews · August 2002

........no compromise in gas mileage. With the world as it is today, I forsee the possibility of things becoming similar to the way they were in the 1970s' gas shortage. Then, it was the world's worst bane to own a gas guzzler.

Yes, we would all love more power, but, if, like me. you buy a car to own for 10+ years, you might value gas economy over more power.

If Lexus ups the power on the ES300 at the expense of lower gas efficiency, then I am only too pleased to have purchased my vehicle at this time.

atoews · August 2002

A board member, rtorreca, posted that he is wanting to sell his Blue Onyx pearl 02 ES300 because he cannot tolerate the transmission problem. His post advertising his vehicle is #2652, June 20.

He bought his car in March. In June it had 3400 miles on it.

He may or may not still be serious, but to tell the truth, if I had not already purchased my vehicle, I would have been interested even though he lives in New Jersey (I believe) and I live in California.

kreativ · August 2002

Based on historical trends, an engine upgrade to Toyota's new 3.3L V6 should come in '04 for the ES. A complete redesign in '07.

rtorreca · August 2002

Blue Onyx is kind of rare. So far I've only seen one other Blue Onyx (it's parked in the same garage I park in).

It now has 5431 miles and I've been flooring it every opportunity I get to "teach" it that I want to drive aggressively. Don't think it's learning though. I have noticed lately that in some corners, the hesitation sometimes do not appear. The faster the turn, the lesser it stutters.

As far as selling it, my Mom likes the car and she'll take the car off my hands. She'll continue the payments starting October. As to what I'll be replacing it with, I am deciding on a Pilot, a Camry, or an Accord. Or maybe a BMW 325 xi - the car I wanted to get in the first place. But after learning that luxury does not necessarily mean trouble-free, I may decide against the bimmer. Pilot is the most likely candidate. Looks like I'll be going Honda again.

atoews · August 2002

Good to hear from you again. Good luck with whatever you do about a new vehicle. Your mom is getting a good deal. :-)

As far as rare ES300 colors go, I rarely see an ES300 of any color.

The only color I have not yet seen is a Starlight Pearl. For some reason that color is not available in Southern California. I am not sure why as it seems like a very nice, light color.

coolguyky7 · August 2002

The problem is that Lexus has three very similar colors. I really can't tell one from the other in certain light. I really like the Starlight Pearl. It's a good alternative to the common silver.

cjts · August 2002

Rtorreca, sorry to hear about the problems with your ES300. If you are wanting to get rid of the Transmission problem, look away from the 2002 CAMRY. I am going through arbitration with Toyota for the same problem. The car hesitates/jerks and it is a computer problem (ECU). Toyota knows about it but does not have a solution. The problem seems noticeable on the V6 models. So, stay away from the Camry. I was going to get an ES300 but after researching and reading about the same problem I am not going to risk it. Now I am on a search for my new car. NOT EASY!!! Good luck to you!
Carlos

kiiwii · August 2002

The transmission shouldn't take more than few minutes to "learn" a driver's driving style. It just doesn't make sense that a transmission takes several hundred miles to adapt to a driver. If that's the case, the trasnmission computer must have a HUGE memory bank to store the "driving log." Other than that, what if the car is shared by a Dad with conservative driving style and a son who floors the car on every traffic light? Is the transmission going to obey the Dad or the son?

kreativ · August 2002

It's just an easy excuse the dealers give to customers unhappy with the transmission. Like a 2 second hesitation when you're flooring it because a semi is coming at you has anything to do with the learning aspect of the transmission...
And it's pretty sad if a transmission with "intelligence" takes hundreds of miles to get to a level acceptable to a driver...a level readily available in Lexus cars before the "intelligent" transmission even came out.

The only thing that should be changed with an intelligent transmission is the shift points. While I haven't experienced any issues with the transmission myself, I feel for those who get this kind of BS feedback to their complaints.

atoews · August 2002

I have driven several new ES300s at dealers since the purchase of my own ES300 in March. I feel no significant difference between the response of my own transmission and those of the new vehicles I have test driven.

I am convinced that it is only the degree to which it imnpacts individual owners that explains differences. The range extends from those who do not even sense the issue at all (lenscap, kreativ, tiger8, aceking200) to drivers like slaing and myself who feel it, and find is slightly bothersome, to folks like rtorreca and texas83, who experience one second delays or more and who want to sell their vehicles. The "learning" has nothing to do with it, as I proved to myself on my various test drives.

kreativ · August 2002

For those unhappy with the transmission, I hear sending in feedback through planetfeedback.com will actually get you a phone call from Lexus. And not just from a receptionist that doesn't know anything when you're the one calling them.

Supposedly, they have a team from Japan here looking to see if the transmission needs a fix. And apparently, a fix has already been released for the '02 Camry's transmission.

cjileong · August 2002

but is this whole 330 thing actually confirmed? and it will indeed be across the entire Toyota/Lexus range?

if so, what will this mean about not only the ES, but the Avalon and Camry as well?

shakfu3 · August 2002

Just for everyone's knowledge, we bought a fully loaded (Nav/Mark Lev, Heated Seats, PWR Sunshade, VSC) for $35,919. I bought the car from Prestige Lexus in Ramsey, NJ. Here is the total cost:

39,315 (MSRP)
34,719 (Invoice)

35,919.00 (Negotiated Price)
195.00 (Document Fee)
2155.14 (Taxes)
38,269.14 (Total out the door)

The price is $1200 over invoice. I asked for $1000 over invoice but $1200 was the best they could do.

mmccloskey · August 2002

Greetings:

I've accumulated 1,000 miles on my 2K2 ES300 in 3 weeks of ownership and have some observations I'd like to share.

Mileage: I fueled up today and it took 11 gal. with 318 miles on the trip - that works out to 28.9 MPG. Quite good in my book for a 3,400lb luxo-cruiser! The Avg Mpg displays 26.5 but I haven't cleared it since getting the car so I was surprised when I used my calc fuel/miles.

Power: I find the car has sufficient power considering the ES300's luxury pedigree. More would be nice, but if I wanted a road-burner I would have gotten an Infiniti G35. I knew beforehand the car was quoted by various publications as being underpowered, but my desires were to have a smooth, serene driving experience and the ES300 delivers! Plus it has the most exquisite interior in it's class. No amount of power will make up for a pedestrian interior.

Interior trim alignment: Have any of you noticed how the upper door trim does not align with the dash trim on both sides? It appears about 1/4" lower on the door as it wraps into the dash. If I can figure how to post a pic for visual reference I will do so.

Transmission: I've noticed a bit of sluggishness on ocassion but this may be to my sedate driving manner. After I get more miles on the car I will 'put the vinegar' to it and see what happens.

Cheers -

M. J. McCloskey

fredvh · August 2002

Thanks for your update on your new ES300. Please keep us informed as the miles roll on. That was great mileage. Was it mostly highway mileage? Are you sure you filled it up the same both before checking and after the 318 miles? It sure can make a difference if you "fill it up" differently. I am not trying to second-guess your method but I know people who do not do it right. The 5-speed should give one good gas mileage on the highway. The ES300 is still on my list of my next car but there are others too. I still am not wild about the looks of the 2002 ES300. I here good things about the new and updated 2003 Honda Accord so I will want to check that out too. The Toyota Camry also is still on my list. Thanks again for your update.

snowdon · August 2002

Hello,

I am in Southern California and have a baby on the way. We have a new Suburban, so space isn't a problem. I want a car with a nice ride, and luxury.

What will be new in 2003?

They are saying the best price is $35,532 loaded, with Navi, and Mark. What is your thoughts. This has been over e-mail.

Michael

kymmy123 · August 2002

Well, I have to say that I've joined the list of folks who has had enough of this car. The car is totally luxurious in my opinion, hence the reason we bought it, but on several occassions I needed the engine to answer my call, and it never woke up. Our car is a Black Garnet/biege (looks like a wine or burgundy)with 7,800 miles on it, and fully loaded. Everyone loves the color, apparently, there aren't that many around. We actaually waited months to get this color in the first place. We still love the car and the ride, but I would hate to damage the baby one day, because the engine hesitated on me. The only problem is, what can we buy that is as beautiful, reliable, and comfortable. Also, any ideas on what a good price to sell this at would be

atoews · August 2002

I wrote a letter to Lexus via planetfeedback.com to complain about transmission. I am disappointed that my letter was the only complaint on this problem.

Please everyone, if you have a transmission problem, "squawk" it on planet feedback. After all, wouldn't it be great if Lexus would fix the problem? Think how much better it would be for rtorreca, texas83 and now kymmy123 if they did not need to sell their cars at a loss!!! And how much better would it be for the rest of us to feel that Lexus has nearly achieved their passionate pursuit for perfection!!

bartalk2 · August 2002

Last week some of us wrote that because both Nissan and Honda had leapfrogged the ES300 in horsepower with lower priced cars (the Altima and forthcoming Accord), to remain competitive, Lexus would probably have to increase the power of the ES300, already considered somewhat underpowered.

The Sept. issue of Motor Trend announces that the ES300 will become the ES330 in '03, probably with the '04 model. I would guess that the Camry will then be given the same engine treatment as the current ES300, and offer 220hp, nearly matching the power of the new Accord.

kymmy123 · August 2002

Definately will send a letter, tried to soak this up as long as I could, but have given up, time to move on, hopefully I will not take a big hit, checked with a dealer yesterday, according to the galves book value 2002 ES with Nav goes for 29,400, but they do not apparently give credit for all the other extras with the premium package e.g HID, sunshade, Mark Levinson system, CD changer etc

kreativ · August 2002

Most worrisome is the 1-3 second hesitation I hear about when you're most in need of quick power. This could prove to be quite a danger if you have a semi coming at you and you're flooring the gas pedal but the car doesn't respond instantly.

I don't know how Lexus can pass that off as a characteristic of the transmission, and that it's working within normal operating parameters.

By the way, I know of someone who deemed their '02 ES unsafe due to what I mentioned above, and got their dealer to buy back the car for the full price paid. Far better than selling at a significant loss, that's for sure.

kymmy123 · August 2002

Maybe I should pursue this option first, because my car litterally does nothing for a couple seconds then it kicks in, meanwhile I'm literally motionless, and in direct danger. Quite frankly, the dealer can do a much better job selling my car than I can, because they have alot of trafiic in their for people seeking to buy this specific product. Any furtehr info will be appreciated!

mz1234 · August 2002

Hi All,

I noticed a while ago there're a few postings taking about what kind of gasoline should be used for ES300. I remember someone mentioned that dealer recommended mind-grade (89 octane I assume).

Here is a piece I copied from today's "www.msn.com" an article called "20 ways you waste money on your car"

Premium gas instead of regular. Buy the cheapest gasoline that doesnt make your car engine knock. All octane does is prevent knock; a grade higher than the maker of your car recommends is not a treat.

ES 300 spec says to use "regular unlead" which I believe is just "regular" (87 Octane).

Here is the question: does mid-grade gas offer us any REAL advantage at all over regular gas? Not perceived advantage, real advantage. I don't beleive premium gas (91 or 93 octane) buys us anything based on all the info I can gather.

Comments?

rtorreca · August 2002

I registered and sent a letter to lexus using planetfeedback. Hopefully they actually do something about it. Anybody else that experience the problem, please send.

Would it be possible to claim my car under the lemon law? I really do not feel safe putting my baby daughter in this thing.

I'm not going to give this to my mother anymore either (as I previously mentioned). If anything happens to her while driving this car, I won't be able to live with myself.

rtorreca · August 2002

I use the middle-grade gas (89). I tried 91 but could not feel any real performance difference from 89. The dealership did not recommend 87.

8u6hfd · August 2002

The ES300 is designed for premium (91+ octane).

Though thanks to knock sensors, you can safely run regular or mid-grade fuel. You may feel a performance or fuel economy degradation though.

shakeel · August 2002

Does anyone know what the AF button on the Nav radio do?

Thanks,
Shakeel

mmccloskey · August 2002

As the new owner of an ES300 I have been following this transmission issue with great interest. I have a bit over 1,200 miles on the ODO and haven't noticed any problem in passing when I need to do so. On the way home yesterday, I was approaching another vehicle that was pulling off the side of the road and into the lane I was in. I pressed the accelerator and the car moved with authority and I easily passed the other vehicle. I went from 60MPH to 80MPH in short order. This was on a 2 lane country road and I had sufficient time for this manuver just in case the car didn't respond as it did/should. The engine sound (such as it was) was very well muted and there was very little drama overall.

I find it odd that nearly 60,000 2K2 ES300's have been sold/leased and the transmission issue is not more prevalent. I guess we will see if the 2003 models contain any update/fix that can be applied to those who are encountering problems with their 2002's.

Regards -

M. J. McCloskey

tk_det · August 2002

Good question. As you know, your radio has FM1, FM2, and FM Type options. FM Type is used to pick up RDS (Radio Data System) stations which you acquire by using the RDS search option.

[As an aside, this is a handy way to program your radio to good stations when you travel to a new city. When you get home just RDS search again and you get all your home RDS stations back]

AF stands for alternative frequency function. When listening to an RDS station, a new station providing good reception is automatically selected if the current reception worsens.

I know your next question. How did I find this out. AF is NOT explained in the 2002 Lexus Navigation System Owners Manual in section V (five) where you would expect to get all the info about your audio system.

It is covered in your regular owner's manual in section 2-2, audio system (type

page 199. Just luck that I found this although I do write programs and read and write documentation for a living. Obviously it was an editorial omission leaving it out of the NAV manual.

The feature itself is pretty esoteric and was undoubtedly invented and written by a programmer in love with his code and WAY TOO MUCH time on his hands.

Have I done things like this in applications I've written? Of course!

tk

shakfu3 · August 2002

Thank you for the reply!!! Of course, as luck would have it, there are only 3 RDS stations in the New Jersey/New York are where I live.

rtorreca · August 2002

browsing through msn carpoint, one of the reader reviewers of 02 es300 mentioned a software update scheduled this november. I hope he's right.

tk_det · August 2002

Can you send a link to this?

marsha7 · August 2002

article stated that the new ES330 would have 240 HP, not 220...I have misplaced the magazine, so I cannot check the source...now, all they need to add is a sport suspension package, and it could be the ideal car for some...plus, when you think about how cheap a sport suspension package really is ( stiffer shocks, larger F&R anti-roll bars, maybe stiffer springs), they could create 2 versions of the same car for VERY little money difference.

rtorreca · August 2002

http://carpoint.msn.com/userreviews/reviewlist.asp?idmodel=10261&search=MostRecent&num=50&trim=All&lang=All
Click on "Disappointing"

8u6hfd · August 2002

then again.....in the Maintenance & Repair section....the TL doesn't look too promising either to some people.

bartalk2 · August 2002

Marsha, they do have a sport suspension package. It's called the IS300.

lenscap · August 2002

They do offer a sport suspension option of sorts with the AVS (adjustable variable suspension).

Set on the sport mode the car feels much sportier. Unfortunately this option is in low supply, but it can be had (mine has it).

bartalk2 · August 2002

The reviews I've read say the adjustable suspension doesn't really work that well and the standard suspension is fine and works better than any adjustment you can make. What's your experience?

bartalk2 · August 2002

According to Motor Trend, the ES330, with 240hp, will be introduced sometime in '03 as the '04 model.

marsha7 · August 2002

yes, I am aware of the IS300, it's just that they never offer the combinations that I would if I was the person in charge of marketing...I kinda consider myself the "car guy" that is often said needed to run a car company, as opposed to a bean counter...a true sport option on their luxury car, once it has 240 HP, should be an interesting combo for minimal money, that's all I was trying to imply...

Lenscap...I will keep your suggestion in mind...thanks...but nothing will help body roll better than larger anti roll bars for cornering, IMO

bartalk2 · August 2002

When the ES300 came out, interviews with Lexus people said the sporty IS300 allowed them to produce the ES300--a pure boulevard cruiser with no sporty pretentions. I guess Lexus wants to keep the two types separate rather than combining them in one car. I agree with you that it would be nice to combine them, or at least offer alternate suspensions so you can tailor the car according to your own taste, but I guess that wasn't their plan.

lenscap · August 2002

I love the AVS feature. I first became familiar with it because my friend got it on his 1997 ES 300 (the first year it was offered as an option). They don't make many cars with this feature because most people don't care. But I do, and got AVS on my 2002. Note AVS on the 2002s is a little more advanced than that offered in the 1997-2001 cars since it adjusts each wheel independently instead of as a group.

There is a switch on the center console that has four settings. 1=cushy, 2=standard ES 300 suspension, 3=a little sport, 4=sport. Switching between the different modes you can really feel a difference. I drive about 50% of the time in #4, and the car feels real tight. The other 50% of the time I'm in #3. Body roll in cornering is greatly reduced. It's hard to describe, but even driving straight the car feels more like a driver's car (if you can say that about an ES).

While I would be happy with a non-AVS car, it would not be as firm, or handle as well, as I would like.

We all know the ES 300 is not meant to ride or handle like a BMW. But this option really lets me change the personality of the car whenever I want. Plus it allows me to have the firmer feel I like.

Hope this helps.

holttony · August 2002

I only put 93 Octane in my ES.

More specifically...."Texaco's" brand of 93 Octane.

Here in GA we have gas stations called "Quick Trips". As alot of people know, GA is ranked the cheapest when it comes to gas prices. QT's are even lower than the National Brands and they are guaranteed, but my ES acts as if it is "stoned" on cheap gas. (Non-Brand Name....and anything less than 93 octane.)

I personally can tell a severe difference in the performance and gas usage of the car. This is from a guy that will hit 100mph atleast once a day on GA's highway's.

All in all, I think my ES is just a little "uppity".

:

Tony!

pontoisele · August 2002

For Lexus Owner info: talked to Lexus Customer Satisfaction Dept.3 days after accident asked for an inspection.Lexus promised will do within 2 weeks.Insurance co.officially declared car total loss 3 weeks later and moved car from the towing site.5 weeks after the call, lexus Rep, in atlanta called and said can't find the car for the inspection.Provided phone info of insurance Co.rep. in charge of this case, same time w/ pictures.Wrote 3 pages letter including 3 pics then certified mailed it on 7-18-2002 to Lexus according to "Lexus Owner Manual Lemon Law Info".End of July ,received calls from Lexus said no problem found on air bags (of course ).Do not say why does'nt work. Asked copy of report and new location of the car.Answer negative.Asked for a written response.Will update when answer letter come.
If some one want see pics, please get to this site :
www.geocities.com/tle1042002/accidentpage.html
Ps: This Lexus ES 300-1997 bought w/14000 miles on 1-12-2000 as preowned from Hennessy Lexus in Atlanta, GA,and serviced by same dealer.

bartalk2 · August 2002

Thanks for your experience with the variable suspension. If it really does change the character of the ride and handling, I might buy one after all (if they fix the transmission!).

atoews · August 2002

I don't know if you have test driven an ES300. Your comment above on the AVS leads me to believe you have.

My view is that the vast majority of owners do not feel a transmission problem at all. I believe that if you are going to feel it, you can recreate it on a test drive. There will be no surprises with the transmission if you test a vehicle before you buy one.

To me the problem is most pronounced and repeatable in the following driving scenario:
1) Cruise at 40 mph.
2) Draw back on the accelerator slightly for about 1 second.
3) Then apply the acceleration as though you want to quickly pass someone.

In all cars I have driven (4 so far), there is a noticable delay when trying to accelerate after pulling off the accelerator.

I challenge all of those who say they don't feel the problem to try this test.

I will periodically test drive new ES300s to see if I continue to get the same response in all the cars.

atoews · August 2002

In California, the AVS comes packaged with the Nav and ML. Navs can be found in Camrys and Avalons. The AVS and ML, along with the aesthetics of the interior, truly contribute to the specialness of the ES300 over the Toyota line.

kreativ · August 2002

The transmission problem you mentioned above in your test sounds very much like what I've experienced in older model LS and GS, along with other owners. The difference is that I didn't reapply the gas as if I wanted to pass someone.

Someone else described it as the feeling of the transmission hesitating between 2 gears...not quite knowing which one to select.

Do you also get a shuddering sensation when you reapply the gas?

kreativ · August 2002

Replacing AVS shocks on an older Lexus has proven to be a very expensive proposition. If you plan to keep your car for 6+ years, you probably don't want to go with the AVS option.

mmccloskey · August 2002

Greetings:

I posted a msg awhile back regarding the misalignment of the door trim as it blends into the dash panel. I have attached an image for visual reference.

Have any of 2K2 ES300 owners noticed a similar situation? The right door trim has the same issue, but is more evident.

M. J. McCloskey

Lexus ES 300/ES 330

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