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Lexus ES 300/ES 330
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Comments
mmccloskey -
Follow the guidelines in your owner's manual as to whether you should change your oil every 5K (severe conditions) or 7.5K. With your type of driving, 7.5K sounds like the right one.
Here's what Honda has to say (they were easiest to quote off one of their web pages):
"Following the "severe conditions" guidelines won't help your Honda unless you really do drive under those conditions. Many vehicle owners waste time, money, and oil on unnecessary oil changes, for example. The quality of engine oil and filters has steadily improved to keep pace with the requirements of new engines."
Some have been brainwashed by the oil change industry's ancient 3000 mile recommendation (they're after the $$$). Heck, I knew about "change your oil every 3K" before I even cared about cars just from the advertising alone. For others, they find it gives them peace of mind, which to them is worth the extra cost (and waste) regardless of any real-world benefits.
I have a friend with a '90 Lexus LS that has run his engine up to 200K miles with a consistent 7.5K oil change interval. Not surprisingly, there's no problems with the engine whatsoever. Believe me...you'll have problems with the rest of your car well before you have problems with a Toyota engine.
Only go to the dealer for routine maintenance if:
a) You don't know of any trustworthy independent mechanic
b) You have no clue when a routine maintenance procedure is done correctly or incorrectly.
c) You're not willing to watch as they do the oil change or tire rotation, if you haven't yet established a good relationship with an independent mechanic.
Taking it to any 'ol gas station or a quick lube place without an idea of what to look for is a bad idea. You could be given recycled motor oil, the wrong weight oil even though you specified to them you wanted 5W-30, and a poor quality oil filter (not that one should expect much out of those $1 filters).
On the other hand, I think being clueless and getting ripped off at the Lexus dealer is also not a good idea. Don't think you're getting the service center's more experienced mechanics to do these routine maintenance items.
Personally, I take it to an independent mechanic for routine maintenance not because it's cheaper, but because I'm assured of service that's up to my standards. It's just a bonus that the cost is 75% less at times. I buy my own oil, filter (always Toyota/Lexus OEM 90915-20004, Made in Japan by Denso), and pay for labor.
For tire rotation, make sure your lug nuts are hand-torqued to 76 lb-ft (the official Lexus spec). Does the Lexus service center do this for you? Doubtful. Given that at most lexus service centers, your car is out of sight when being serviced, it's hard to say.
I think that the ES300 is just a significantly more attractive member of the Toyota family than is the Camry.
I think the ES300 fits into the Lexus branch of the family a lot better than it does the Toyota/Camry branch of the family. In my opinion, the ES300 looks more like it belongs on the Lexus lot than it does on the Toyota lot.
whotheman
But I agree that if they're going to make the brand differentiation, they should relabel all viewable parts to reflect that as well. After all, this labelling has caused you to change the way you perceive the ES. And it all comes down to consumer perception.
The current trend in car manufacturing is all about sharing: the same platform, the same parts, etc. You'd be surprised at what cars are or will be sharing the same platform.
And it's obvious that Lexus needs to do more to get consumers to perceive the ES as a different car than the Camry. No one has ever mistaken the interior of the new ES for the new Camry, but the exterior design could use more separation.
I had a friend who owned an older ES and it pissed her off that "Toyota" was stamped all over the parts. She was probably not the only one who complained
Personally, I think the older LSes look more like the older Camrys than the new ES looks like the older Camrys. The LS is boxy, like the older Camrys, and older ES300s, but it is bigger. The new Camry and ES are not boxy.
I think it interesting that Toyota views the American psyche differently than that of the Japanese. Status apparently means more to us, and Toyota shrewdly developed the Lexus line to capitalize on that attribute. I can understand how the Japanese might view this tendency as affected and kind of silly.
Mine is silver with grey interior. The Nav is great and user friendly. Have already used it 4 times in 2 days.
All I can say is this is one great car. Although it may lack some power, I am delighted with the purchase. It is gorgeous inside and out and the ride is superb.
Now the bad news. It is in the shop after owning it for all of 36 hours. When I put the gear shift into drive, it registers 4th gear. The dealer informs me that they need a cellenoid which has to come from Japan and the car will not be ready for me until next Wednesday. So I will have had the car for 36 hours and the dealer for 7 days. This is not a good start but hopefully is the only thing that goes wrong.
I will let this forum know more about the car when I have had a chance to drive it more than a 1/4 of a tank.
But yes, the Lexus does carry snob appeal, especially in places like southern California which have a strong emphasis on cars. Where else would you find 15 Lexus dealers clustered in one area.
cwdavis1 - Congrats on your new ES! I have the same exterior/interior colors as you. Sorry to hear you have to wait another week to get it back. Were you the one that moved to LA not long ago? If you are, sounds like you benefited greatly from waiting until you got here to purchase the ES at $100 over invoice.
I understand the first oil change (at 5K) is free. But I don't know if it is worthwhile at all to change the oil at a Lexus dealership. What about a Toyota dealership? What is the cost difference?
Zaino... I've seen several mentions of this product by fellow ES owners. It looks like Zaino is only available by mail order. Is it such a great car polisher worth spending ~$70 for a set?
Clear Bra for the car...
I was pitched to pay $895 for a 3M clear bra for the car and another $595 for the lights. I didn't go for it due to concern of cost, benefit and whether it looks good/transparent on a black car. Does anyone here get the clear bra? Is it necessary at all?
Your opinion is appreciated, always.
Zaino and Klasse are the top 2 polymer sealants. Why the high price on Zaino? Just marketing. Take a good car care product, sell it in small amounts at a hight price, and people who only want the best for their cars will come. Porsche bug and tar remover, anyone?
I would highly recommend Zaino. I've used it for about 3 years now, and doubt I'll ever go back to something else, as long as it is availabe. I find it to be much more durable and easier to use than other products. Visit the Zaino discussion thread elsewhere on this site.
1. "Lexus" is on every window of every Lexus. The last time "Toyota" was used on Lexus cars was 2000 (and that was on every car, including the LS I believe).
2. "Toyota" is not stamped anywhere on the taillights.
3. The battery says "Toyota Motor Sales Lexus Division." Guess what it says on the LS 430's battery? The exact same thing.
4. You say the lights, turn signal and wiper controls are the same in the ES 300 as your old Celica. Well, then the LS 430 must borrow parts from the Celica as well. Both the ES 300 and LS 430 have the exact same stalks on either side of the steering wheel (there is a color difference; in the ES they're black and in the LS dark gray).
I looked all over the ES 300 and could not find any Toyota reference anywhere on the entire interior or exterior. Just one or two places in the engine compartment, where the LS 430 had them also.
People are influenced by what they read and hear. Often their perceptions are not fact, as your statements exemplify. Apparently you think the ES 300 is more like a Toyota than Lexus, yet your LS 430 has some of the very same qualities you knock on the ES 300.
The fact is, of course the cars will look somewhat similar. They are made by the same company. And they are the same size. To my eye, only the headlights are similar. The rears are totally different. The sides are totally different. The ES has a massive crease down the side, the Camry is more slab-sided. The ES has a very rounded roof line, the Camry's is squared off. But when it comes down to it, all they share is a platform and some unseen parts - a total of about 15% of the car. That means 85% of the two cars is different.
And by the way, the Camry happens to be an excellent car, both mechanically and visually (in my opinion at least). I see nothing wrong with sharing unseen components between the two.
One other quick note: I noticed the LS 430 uses the same construction on the headrests as Toyota, where the two pieces of leather (top and sides) are simply placed next to each other. The ES 300 uses the nicer stiched look. Interesting that this nice touch would be on the ES 300 and not the LS 430.
Nice to hear that you have the same color combo as I. Great choice. Do you use Zaino or something else?
http://www.properautocare.com/klasconkit.html
You can't go wrong with either Klasse or Zaino. They're both superior to traditional waxes in terms of longevity and protection. Some prefer the look of one over the other, but most just get one product and stick with it solely because it works well and they see no reason to change.
BTW, seems like there will be little change to 2003 model, is there advantage to buy the last inventory for 2002 model to get better pricing?
Usually when is the last chance to get 2002 model?
I think it means we are getting close to perfection. :-)
Keep it up. I love the obsession.
It seems silly to criticize the 2000 model. The 2002 is an entirely different generation.
But thanks for clarifying.
I have had my car for a little over a year and will be taking it in for the 15,000 mile service tomorrow. Among other things, I will have the air conditioner filter replaced at a cost of $55 for the filter, and no labor charge. Since the dealer typically charges for everything, the fact that there is no labor change is a signal to me that this is an easy job.
My questions:
1) Where can I get the filter for less?
2) How do I replace it myself?
Any guidance is appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Why does your Lexus dealer charge $55? Why, that's the Lexus markup that you earned by buying a Lexus. And plus, making it so expensive makes people think the filter sheet has magical properties that you can't get from a filter at Home Depot.
For replacement instructions, look inside your owner's manual. It's just about the easiest maintenance task one can do. For the '02 ES, you access it through the glove box. Take the old filter sheet out of the cartridge, slip the new one in, and you're good to go.
When you need to change the filter sheet shouldn't be determined by something like the 15000 mile maintenance interval. If you drove through a dusty construction zone every day for 2 weeks, you'd have to change your A/C filter sooner than usual. If you always drive in a pristine environment, your filter will last longer than usual. You should check the filter periodically and change when it is too dirty.
If you go the cheap route you risk allowing crap to lodge on the evaporator core and feed the bacteria on that wet dark surface. I'm sure you have smelled that stuff coming out of the vents of lesser cars.
$55 bucks and they put it in? Let them.
Have lots of flow. Tell them no.
MAINTENANCE SCHEDULE
Every 3,750 Miles:
Oil and Oil Filter Change
Every 30,000 Miles:
Radiator Coolant Flush/Change
Air Filter Change
BG MOA Oil Additive
BG 44K Fuel Induction Additive
Every 60,000 Miles:
Transmission Fluid Flush/Change
Spark Plugs Change/Tune-Up
Brake Fluid Flush/Change
Power Steering Fluid Flush/Change
Battery Check/Change
Every 90,000 Miles:
Timing Belt Change
Every 1 Year:
Exterior Wax/Detail
Interior Leather/Wood Cleaning and Conditioning/Detail and Carpet Shampoo
Wiper Blade Inserts Change
At 19.5 K miles the friendly service writer questioned why I had not serviced the transmission. If I had been wearing my Polar Heart Monitor, it would have started beeping. I'll never forget when the Dodge dealer told me via my wife that our Cavaran's warrantee was void because they could tell I had not changed the fluid in transmission number 3. I had to explain that I was very busy and usually try to keep up with servicing the cars but it had been only 3k miles since my last transmission was changed. I'm glad that they reconsided not voiding the warrantee because it needed two additional transmissions and controllers to make it past the warantee period.
So I buy a can of Type T-4 at the Toyota dealer. Mistake number 1. It was 4 bucks cheaper at the Lexus place. I drop the pan, clean the magnet, clean instead of replace the screen and button it up. On the dipstick I notice both in English and Japanese, the fluid never needs changing. Time to RTFM. Hey its there too. At this point I have no choice but to put in the 3.8 quarts. The fluid is very expensive and has a different feel and smell to it than Dextron, Type F or the Chysler crap. It smells like the esters in Mobil One.
I felt that I was fluffed by a professional and told them so on the Lexus comment forms. After a few phone calls they forgot about me and even though I am very anal, I don't need to stoke out over a few bucks. I wanted them to reinbuse me by sending me another two of those special order cabin air filters, but hey, I want to win a free airplane from AOPA too.
So... back to the thread. Change the fluid on a schedule? I would check it every oil change instead. Smell it, check the color and the level with the engine on, hot, and the transmission in part. It should be clear red, not orange or brown.
Oh and I don't think I could wait a whole year between waxing.
or is this too good to be true?
A new computer installed in my car on 06/13/02. I saw no change after this was installed. The car still has the same issues. Sunday morning was extremely bad. The severity of the problem isn't happening on a consistent basis. I'm not sure the upgrade Lexus is working on will solve this problem. My thought is that if it's the computer all ES300's would be having this problem. I will stay with my car and hope the new software corrects the problem. Has anyone thought about the sensors that tell the computer what to do?
Test Drive ES300 Loner Comparison 06/12/02 - 06/13/02
* Accelerating hard - both unit were about the same but the loner still had less of a head jerk.
* From a dead stop accelerating normal - no comparison, in the loner from first gear to second is the only time I felt anything as far a lurch the rest of the gears I heard but could not feel, 4th to 5th I could not even hear. What I did experience felt normal, tight and the way the car should perform.
* On the freeway going a steady 60 on level roadway - in the loner I never once felt the trans. flutter (see below). This feels as if the brake is being pressed down or the engine is mis-firing in my car. My car is running on 93 oct.
* Breaking down to 5-10 mph and then accelerating normal - as you do when you catch a green at a 4 way. The loner does have a slight pause but when the engine does kick in it's not a violent lurch and a much shorter duration as in my car. This is probably what the programming effort to the control unit will fix. It's annoying but acceptable in the loner but at times can be quite violent and dangerous in my car.
Issues with transmission.
When the car shifts from gear to gear the power transfer is anything but smooth. I thought I could get used to and anticipate the shifting as you do when driving a manual transmission. But the timing of each lull and surge is always different based on speed, acceleration, and road angle (uphill, downhill, level). Besides this is a new car and I expect it to work as well as the car I traded in.
Symptoms:
When in Stop and Go traffic, going 5 mph, braking to 3 mph then back to 5 mph - the car lunges forward after a brief pause every time.
When in the range of 55 mph to 60 mph keeping the foot on the pedal but slightly backing off to slow down and going down the backside of an overpass the transmission flutters between what I believe to be 5th gear and 4th gear for about 2 seconds. This is inconsistent and doesn't happen every time.
Accelerating hard from a dead stop the car shifts the best. But this isn't normal driving conditions. Slowing down and speeding up especially in the lower gears causes a pause and a lunging engagement into the gears.
The cars I have driven all exhibit symptoms similar to the loaner. That is, the symptoms are very annoying but not perceived as dangerous. On some few vehicles, however, it sounds really bad.
My apologies to rtorreca. Rtorecca, have you driven other vehicles to compare notes?
Has anyone with the 1MZ-FE engine in this forum had any oil sludge problems? i am trying to determine if any Toyota sludge controversies involve car owners who take regular care/maintenance of their cars. i fthis has been covered in the past, i apologize...