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Lexus ES 300/ES 330

15758606263105

Comments

  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    Re: Oil change interval

    mmccloskey -
    Follow the guidelines in your owner's manual as to whether you should change your oil every 5K (severe conditions) or 7.5K. With your type of driving, 7.5K sounds like the right one.

    Here's what Honda has to say (they were easiest to quote off one of their web pages):
    "Following the "severe conditions" guidelines won't help your Honda unless you really do drive under those conditions. Many vehicle owners waste time, money, and oil on unnecessary oil changes, for example. The quality of engine oil and filters has steadily improved to keep pace with the requirements of new engines."

    Some have been brainwashed by the oil change industry's ancient 3000 mile recommendation (they're after the $$$). Heck, I knew about "change your oil every 3K" before I even cared about cars just from the advertising alone. For others, they find it gives them peace of mind, which to them is worth the extra cost (and waste) regardless of any real-world benefits.

    I have a friend with a '90 Lexus LS that has run his engine up to 200K miles with a consistent 7.5K oil change interval. Not surprisingly, there's no problems with the engine whatsoever. Believe me...you'll have problems with the rest of your car well before you have problems with a Toyota engine.
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    Re: Routine maintenance

    Only go to the dealer for routine maintenance if:
    a) You don't know of any trustworthy independent mechanic
    b) You have no clue when a routine maintenance procedure is done correctly or incorrectly.
    c) You're not willing to watch as they do the oil change or tire rotation, if you haven't yet established a good relationship with an independent mechanic.

    Taking it to any 'ol gas station or a quick lube place without an idea of what to look for is a bad idea. You could be given recycled motor oil, the wrong weight oil even though you specified to them you wanted 5W-30, and a poor quality oil filter (not that one should expect much out of those $1 filters).

    On the other hand, I think being clueless and getting ripped off at the Lexus dealer is also not a good idea. Don't think you're getting the service center's more experienced mechanics to do these routine maintenance items.

    Personally, I take it to an independent mechanic for routine maintenance not because it's cheaper, but because I'm assured of service that's up to my standards. It's just a bonus that the cost is 75% less at times. I buy my own oil, filter (always Toyota/Lexus OEM 90915-20004, Made in Japan by Denso), and pay for labor.

    For tire rotation, make sure your lug nuts are hand-torqued to 76 lb-ft (the official Lexus spec). Does the Lexus service center do this for you? Doubtful. Given that at most lexus service centers, your car is out of sight when being serviced, it's hard to say.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    I'd say that the ES300 bears a family resemblence to the Camry. However, just as a beutiful person can "look like" and even be confused with, a less attractive family member, so can the same phenomenon apply to cars.

    I think that the ES300 is just a significantly more attractive member of the Toyota family than is the Camry.

    I think the ES300 fits into the Lexus branch of the family a lot better than it does the Toyota/Camry branch of the family. In my opinion, the ES300 looks more like it belongs on the Lexus lot than it does on the Toyota lot.
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Member Posts: 932
    I don't think the Camry and ES 300 have ever looked less alike.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    I Second that. The Camry and ES300 have never looked this distant. But some things are going to give the 2 away. The general proportions are similar, like wheelbase, width, height, and length are similar. And I think alot of people see similarities because they know the 2 cars are built off of the same platform. If people didn't know that, I bet most wouldn't see any similarities.
  • stlouisslimstlouisslim Member Posts: 21
    This week I have my LS 430 back at the dealer for its 1,000 mile check and they gave me a 2000 ES300 as a loaner. It's a neat car but there is a whole lot more in common with the Camry than just a "resemblence". The windows have "Toyota" written on them, the tail-light lenses are embossed "Toyota"; under the hood, the radiator is stamped "Toyota" and the battery is from "Toyota Motor Sales". This is only from a quick glance. I bet if I took the time to look I'd find Toyota stamps all over the place. Sure, usually there is a Lexus sticker next to the Toyota label but one wonders how much original Lexus stuff there is in here. One of the reasons I found the ES so easy to drive is that the lights, turn signal, windshield wiper controls and even the windshield washer fill tube are identical to the Celica I had been driving for 5 years. Now, I'm not knocking the car, but I would have thought that, with the exception of the interior luxury appointments and some of the gadgets, there would have been at least some design separation from the Camry.
  • r1_97r1_97 Member Posts: 181
    Your post 2946 suggests that Lexus should change the ES300 lights, turn signal, windshield wiper and windshield washer to distinguish them from Celica/Camry. What's wrong with these items and how would you change them for the better?
  • r1_97r1_97 Member Posts: 181
    Probably been asked before: When are the '03 models coming out and what changes are made from the 02s? Will the transmission downshift/delay problem be addressed?
  • whothemanwhotheman Member Posts: 169
    And adjustable pedals are available.

    whotheman
  • stlouisslimstlouisslim Member Posts: 21
    Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Toyota fan. I think the Camry is the best car made in America. I also love Lexus. When I was in a position to buy any car I wanted, I chose Lexus over MB, BMW, Audi and Jaguar. I wouldn't dream of suggesting to Lexus how to build or market a car, they certainly know much more than I about these things. Its just that almost since their inception, Lexus has been criticized that their various models of ES's have been warmed over Toyotas. I always denied that. I had always thought that Lexus took the basic Camry design, the power train and chassis and built a Lexus around it, maybe borrowing a piece of sheet metal here or there. This week I have found that not to be true. The ES is indeed just a Camry with a nicer interior, an extra electronic do-dad or two and a "L" on the hood rather than a "T". I can't fault Lexus for that, it's still a super car. Just a little disappointing is all.
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    Lexus IS Toyota. It is merely the brand name that Toyota uses outside of Japan to help differentiate its offerings. Toyota Celsior = Lexus LS, Toyota Windom = Lexus ES, Toyota Altezza = Lexus IS, etc.

    But I agree that if they're going to make the brand differentiation, they should relabel all viewable parts to reflect that as well. After all, this labelling has caused you to change the way you perceive the ES. And it all comes down to consumer perception.

    The current trend in car manufacturing is all about sharing: the same platform, the same parts, etc. You'd be surprised at what cars are or will be sharing the same platform.

    And it's obvious that Lexus needs to do more to get consumers to perceive the ES as a different car than the Camry. No one has ever mistaken the interior of the new ES for the new Camry, but the exterior design could use more separation.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Lexus learned its lesson. This year's ES300 has "Lexus" stamped all over its windows, etc.

    I had a friend who owned an older ES and it pissed her off that "Toyota" was stamped all over the parts. She was probably not the only one who complained

    Personally, I think the older LSes look more like the older Camrys than the new ES looks like the older Camrys. The LS is boxy, like the older Camrys, and older ES300s, but it is bigger. The new Camry and ES are not boxy.

    I think it interesting that Toyota views the American psyche differently than that of the Japanese. Status apparently means more to us, and Toyota shrewdly developed the Lexus line to capitalize on that attribute. I can understand how the Japanese might view this tendency as affected and kind of silly.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    kreativ is an LS owner, and it did not stop him from buying and loving his ES300!!
  • cwdavis1cwdavis1 Member Posts: 31
    Well, after researching many cars, I finally purchased the 2002 ES 300 in LA on Monday for $100 over invoice. It is completely loaded with Nav, VSC and AVS and chrome wheels. List was $39,963 (ex chrome wheels which cost me $850).

    Mine is silver with grey interior. The Nav is great and user friendly. Have already used it 4 times in 2 days.

    All I can say is this is one great car. Although it may lack some power, I am delighted with the purchase. It is gorgeous inside and out and the ride is superb.

    Now the bad news. It is in the shop after owning it for all of 36 hours. When I put the gear shift into drive, it registers 4th gear. The dealer informs me that they need a cellenoid which has to come from Japan and the car will not be ready for me until next Wednesday. So I will have had the car for 36 hours and the dealer for 7 days. This is not a good start but hopefully is the only thing that goes wrong.

    I will let this forum know more about the car when I have had a chance to drive it more than a 1/4 of a tank.
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    atoews - I've heard the reason Toyota doesn't use a separate luxury brand in Japan is that their name is already so strong there. Same goes for Honda...no Acura in Japan.

    But yes, the Lexus does carry snob appeal, especially in places like southern California which have a strong emphasis on cars. Where else would you find 15 Lexus dealers clustered in one area. =)

    cwdavis1 - Congrats on your new ES! I have the same exterior/interior colors as you. Sorry to hear you have to wait another week to get it back. Were you the one that moved to LA not long ago? If you are, sounds like you benefited greatly from waiting until you got here to purchase the ES at $100 over invoice. =)
  • allencdallencd Member Posts: 1
    I now have about 3300 miles on my black 2002 Lexus ES300. The driving is enjoyable, especially for longer trips.

    I understand the first oil change (at 5K) is free. But I don't know if it is worthwhile at all to change the oil at a Lexus dealership. What about a Toyota dealership? What is the cost difference?

    Zaino... I've seen several mentions of this product by fellow ES owners. It looks like Zaino is only available by mail order. Is it such a great car polisher worth spending ~$70 for a set?

    Clear Bra for the car...
    I was pitched to pay $895 for a 3M clear bra for the car and another $595 for the lights. I didn't go for it due to concern of cost, benefit and whether it looks good/transparent on a black car. Does anyone here get the clear bra? Is it necessary at all?

    Your opinion is appreciated, always.
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    The '03 ES300 appears to have arrived at dealers already. The only new option is the adjustable pedals. It is controlled by a rocker switch to the right of the brightness adjustment for the instrument gauges. The variance is about 4". The window sticker lists the option at $120. Personally, I would've preferred Lexus making the steering wheel motorized rather than the adjustable pedals.
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    allencd - As far as an oil change is concerned, the ES is exactly the same as a V6 Camry. By going to a Toyota dealer for an oil change, you give up the nice customer lounge and the privilege of paying a "Lexus" price. That's about it.

    Zaino and Klasse are the top 2 polymer sealants. Why the high price on Zaino? Just marketing. Take a good car care product, sell it in small amounts at a hight price, and people who only want the best for their cars will come. Porsche bug and tar remover, anyone?
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    Lexus vs Toyota - If using Toyota labeled parts helps keep the costs down, I'm all for it. Who cares what the window label says? Are you buying the car for the car or for the label? A Lexus IS a Toyota after all, just a rather nice one. And that, in my opinion is not a bad thing. Toyota has built an incredible reputation for reliability. My Lexus spends no where near the time in the shop my previous MB did.

    I would highly recommend Zaino. I've used it for about 3 years now, and doubt I'll ever go back to something else, as long as it is availabe. I find it to be much more durable and easier to use than other products. Visit the Zaino discussion thread elsewhere on this site.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    Your observations of your 2000 ES 300 loaner need some clarification. I was at the Lexus dealer last night comparing the 2002 ES 300 to the 2002 LS 430 sitting right next to it on the showroom floor. Here's what I saw:

    1. "Lexus" is on every window of every Lexus. The last time "Toyota" was used on Lexus cars was 2000 (and that was on every car, including the LS I believe).

    2. "Toyota" is not stamped anywhere on the taillights.

    3. The battery says "Toyota Motor Sales Lexus Division." Guess what it says on the LS 430's battery? The exact same thing.

    4. You say the lights, turn signal and wiper controls are the same in the ES 300 as your old Celica. Well, then the LS 430 must borrow parts from the Celica as well. Both the ES 300 and LS 430 have the exact same stalks on either side of the steering wheel (there is a color difference; in the ES they're black and in the LS dark gray).

    I looked all over the ES 300 and could not find any Toyota reference anywhere on the entire interior or exterior. Just one or two places in the engine compartment, where the LS 430 had them also.

    People are influenced by what they read and hear. Often their perceptions are not fact, as your statements exemplify. Apparently you think the ES 300 is more like a Toyota than Lexus, yet your LS 430 has some of the very same qualities you knock on the ES 300.

    The fact is, of course the cars will look somewhat similar. They are made by the same company. And they are the same size. To my eye, only the headlights are similar. The rears are totally different. The sides are totally different. The ES has a massive crease down the side, the Camry is more slab-sided. The ES has a very rounded roof line, the Camry's is squared off. But when it comes down to it, all they share is a platform and some unseen parts - a total of about 15% of the car. That means 85% of the two cars is different.

    And by the way, the Camry happens to be an excellent car, both mechanically and visually (in my opinion at least). I see nothing wrong with sharing unseen components between the two.

    One other quick note: I noticed the LS 430 uses the same construction on the headrests as Toyota, where the two pieces of leather (top and sides) are simply placed next to each other. The ES 300 uses the nicer stiched look. Interesting that this nice touch would be on the ES 300 and not the LS 430.
  • r1_97r1_97 Member Posts: 181
    Has Lexus done anything to address the transmission downshift delay problem commonly encountered in the '02 model ES300?
  • cwdavis1cwdavis1 Member Posts: 31
    Yes, I am the guy who just moved from St. Louis to LA and it was worth the wait to pay only $100 over invoice. The competition here in S. Cal. is great. Every one wants your business.

    Nice to hear that you have the same color combo as I. Great choice. Do you use Zaino or something else?
  • tmarttmart Member Posts: 2,229
    Allen, I, too, recommend going the Zaino route. Since your car is new, all you REALLY need is ZFX, Z2, and Z6, with S&H less than $50. You'll find it's not that expensive in the long run because so little is used each time and it lasts a loooong time, plus it is so easy to apply and remove. Unless you "go crazy", the ZFX and Z2 should last well over a year since an ounce or less is used each time. Definitely check out the Zaino posts in Maintenance and Repair.
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    I use Klasse polymer sealants:

    http://www.properautocare.com/klasconkit.html


    You can't go wrong with either Klasse or Zaino. They're both superior to traditional waxes in terms of longevity and protection. Some prefer the look of one over the other, but most just get one product and stick with it solely because it works well and they see no reason to change.

  • dshenmdyndshenmdyn Member Posts: 34
    I just started to look at the 2002 Lexus ES300 and noticed that it does not have the Sun Visor Extension. Anyone notice that? (Nor does RX300)

    BTW, seems like there will be little change to 2003 model, is there advantage to buy the last inventory for 2002 model to get better pricing?

    Usually when is the last chance to get 2002 model?
  • tcheungtcheung Member Posts: 6
    Cwdavis1 mentioned that the ES300 can be purchased for $100 over invoice in LA. Anybody know if there're dealerships in Texas who's anxious to get rid of the 2002 stock for similar prices? TIA for any information.
  • kymmy123kymmy123 Member Posts: 15
    tired to send you an email, but it is not in you profile. Can you updat eit?
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    He specifically indicated he had a 2000 ES300 as a loaner.
  • tcheungtcheung Member Posts: 6
    I've updated my profile now. Please try again. Thanks for any pricing information you can provide.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Probably gets the award for the NIT PICKINGEST observations!!!

    I think it means we are getting close to perfection. :-)

    Keep it up. I love the obsession.
  • cwdavis1cwdavis1 Member Posts: 31
    I was told that my new Lexus, which went into the shop within 36 hours, would not be ready for a week as a part had to come from Japan. However, I am pleased to report that my dealer (Jim Falk of Beverly Hills) called this evening and said my car is ready. They apparently sabatoged a new ES 300 for the part so that they could get my car back to me quicker. Now that is service for you. I am very impressed with this dealer and it's support staff. They are really terrific so I will have my car back for the holiday weekend. If anyone is in S. Calif. and looking for a good dealership...give these guys a chance.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    I did realize that stllouisslim had a 2000 ES loaner. I wanted to point out that his criticisms were either 1) changed since 2000 or 2) on the LS 430 also.

    It seems silly to criticize the 2000 model. The 2002 is an entirely different generation.

    But thanks for clarifying.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    I also think it is interesting how people are so quick to point out the similarities between the ES300 and the Camry, but seldom do they see those similarities with the higher end Lexuses that differ from the Camry.
  • lexloothalexlootha Member Posts: 12
    Hello everyone. I have been reading this discussion for months, but have not commented, primarily because I have an '01 ES, and most of the discussion centers on the '02. I am compelled to write now because I have a question and I am certain that someone here can help.

    I have had my car for a little over a year and will be taking it in for the 15,000 mile service tomorrow. Among other things, I will have the air conditioner filter replaced at a cost of $55 for the filter, and no labor charge. Since the dealer typically charges for everything, the fact that there is no labor change is a signal to me that this is an easy job.

    My questions:
    1) Where can I get the filter for less?
    2) How do I replace it myself?

    Any guidance is appreciated. Thanks in advance.
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    The A/C filter replacement part is nothing but a simple filter sheet. Go to Home Depot or Lowes, buy a 3M Filtrete furnace filter, and make half a dozen sheets of your own for less than $2 a piece.

    Why does your Lexus dealer charge $55? Why, that's the Lexus markup that you earned by buying a Lexus. And plus, making it so expensive makes people think the filter sheet has magical properties that you can't get from a filter at Home Depot.

    For replacement instructions, look inside your owner's manual. It's just about the easiest maintenance task one can do. For the '02 ES, you access it through the glove box. Take the old filter sheet out of the cartridge, slip the new one in, and you're good to go.

    When you need to change the filter sheet shouldn't be determined by something like the 15000 mile maintenance interval. If you drove through a dusty construction zone every day for 2 weeks, you'd have to change your A/C filter sooner than usual. If you always drive in a pristine environment, your filter will last longer than usual. You should check the filter periodically and change when it is too dirty.
  • lexloothalexlootha Member Posts: 12
    kreativ, You have saved me $55, and I am very appreciative.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Member Posts: 403
    Cool name!!
  • goodlandinggoodlanding Member Posts: 11
    The filter on the '01 is a double element thing accessed from under the driver's side floormat. Look right at the tunnel. Have some diagonal pliers ready to cut a wire tie to swing a wiring harness out of the way. After you get the hatch open you have to pull each element out. Putting them in would be easy if you can flip the car on it's back as they are stacked and you end up fighting gravity. The elements have a rubber seal around them and don't look like anything I have ever seen at HomeDepot or Lowe's. They remind me of the drink coasters used by Japan Airlines that have been treated with carbon. Even though checking is supposed to be done by the dealers, you can do it yourself by simply forcing the cabin fan to high. If there's flow, you're good to go. As crap builds up the cleaning ability actually goes up and you get cleaner air. Flow does suffer though.

    If you go the cheap route you risk allowing crap to lodge on the evaporator core and feed the bacteria on that wet dark surface. I'm sure you have smelled that stuff coming out of the vents of lesser cars.

    $55 bucks and they put it in? Let them.

    Have lots of flow. Tell them no.
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    Woa, sounds nothing like that in the GS, IS and '02 ES. Listen to GoodLanding. From what he described, I wouldn't want to do it myself either.
  • gekko2gekko2 Member Posts: 87
    I have a Lexus ES300 and I read the manual as well as a few dealers service manuals and I boiled down what I thought were the simple minimum maintenance requirements that I should follow. I nixed a lot of the dealer "fluff" and also added a few services of my own. Does anyone have any additions/deletions/changes/comments? See below. Thanks.

    MAINTENANCE SCHEDULE

    Every 3,750 Miles:
    Oil and Oil Filter Change

    Every 30,000 Miles:
    Radiator Coolant Flush/Change
    Air Filter Change
    BG MOA Oil Additive
    BG 44K Fuel Induction Additive

    Every 60,000 Miles:
    Transmission Fluid Flush/Change
    Spark Plugs Change/Tune-Up
    Brake Fluid Flush/Change
    Power Steering Fluid Flush/Change
    Battery Check/Change

    Every 90,000 Miles:
    Timing Belt Change

    Every 1 Year:
    Exterior Wax/Detail
    Interior Leather/Wood Cleaning and Conditioning/Detail and Carpet Shampoo
    Wiper Blade Inserts Change
  • fredvhfredvh Member Posts: 857
    What year ES300 is this for?
  • goodlandinggoodlanding Member Posts: 11
    I too have been hit up for some requests to have fluff performed.

    At 19.5 K miles the friendly service writer questioned why I had not serviced the transmission. If I had been wearing my Polar Heart Monitor, it would have started beeping. I'll never forget when the Dodge dealer told me via my wife that our Cavaran's warrantee was void because they could tell I had not changed the fluid in transmission number 3. I had to explain that I was very busy and usually try to keep up with servicing the cars but it had been only 3k miles since my last transmission was changed. I'm glad that they reconsided not voiding the warrantee because it needed two additional transmissions and controllers to make it past the warantee period.

    So I buy a can of Type T-4 at the Toyota dealer. Mistake number 1. It was 4 bucks cheaper at the Lexus place. I drop the pan, clean the magnet, clean instead of replace the screen and button it up. On the dipstick I notice both in English and Japanese, the fluid never needs changing. Time to RTFM. Hey its there too. At this point I have no choice but to put in the 3.8 quarts. The fluid is very expensive and has a different feel and smell to it than Dextron, Type F or the Chysler crap. It smells like the esters in Mobil One.

    I felt that I was fluffed by a professional and told them so on the Lexus comment forms. After a few phone calls they forgot about me and even though I am very anal, I don't need to stoke out over a few bucks. I wanted them to reinbuse me by sending me another two of those special order cabin air filters, but hey, I want to win a free airplane from AOPA too.

    So... back to the thread. Change the fluid on a schedule? I would check it every oil change instead. Smell it, check the color and the level with the engine on, hot, and the transmission in part. It should be clear red, not orange or brown.

    Oh and I don't think I could wait a whole year between waxing.
  • gambiamangambiaman Member Posts: 131
    I own a 01 RX300 and a 02 ES300. Just had the 30K service done on the RX. Changed the transmission fluid, coolant (per manual), brake fluid (per manual), both air filters, and wiper blades. ES300 has only 4K on it so haven't even been in for 5K service but I assume maintenance requirements are similar. Are spark plugs required to be replaced at 60K? Spark plug replacement is very expensive for the iridium plugs used in my RX and I assume ES (about $250).
  • gekko2gekko2 Member Posts: 87
    gambiaman - you are changing brake fluid every 30k? I thought it should be 60k? Believe it or not, I had one Toyota dealer tell me that "we don't ever change the brake fluid - it's a 'closed system' and it shouldn't be changed." Of course this is nonsense - but should it be a 30k or 60k interval? What's the downside of later rather than sooner? Also - what about FUEL FILTER? Toyota dealer says change it, Lexus dealer says no (unless problems arise). I think I will follow Lexus dealer on fuel filter. Comments?
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Aren't the detailed maintenance instructions included in the manuals?
  • gambiamangambiaman Member Posts: 131
    The owners manual on the RX300 specifically lists change brake fluid every 30K or 24 months. I tried to get the Toyota dealer to do the 30K service on the RX and they declined (twice) saying they did not have the proper fluids to do the service. They also told me that Toyota does not recommend ever changing brake fluid. Wierd. So what I do is have the oil changed at Toyota (I provide the oil) and go to Lexus only for the 30K services. Still need to get out the ES manual and see what it says but I think the ES, RX, Camary and Highlander have basically the same engine and transmission. The owners manual does not mention fuel filter and I think spark plugs are not mentioned until over 100k although my dealer wants to change them at 60K.
  • trinbagotrinbago Member Posts: 6
    anyone interested in brand new ES with everything but sport mode for 37,630 (including taxes)?

    or is this too good to be true?
  • greggbagreggba Member Posts: 2
    Purchased my ES300 in Feb 2002

    A new computer installed in my car on 06/13/02. I saw no change after this was installed. The car still has the same issues. Sunday morning was extremely bad. The severity of the problem isn't happening on a consistent basis. I'm not sure the upgrade Lexus is working on will solve this problem. My thought is that if it's the computer all ES300's would be having this problem. I will stay with my car and hope the new software corrects the problem. Has anyone thought about the sensors that tell the computer what to do?

    Test Drive ES300 Loner Comparison 06/12/02 - 06/13/02

    * Accelerating hard - both unit were about the same but the loner still had less of a head jerk.

    * From a dead stop accelerating normal - no comparison, in the loner from first gear to second is the only time I felt anything as far a lurch the rest of the gears I heard but could not feel, 4th to 5th I could not even hear. What I did experience felt normal, tight and the way the car should perform.

    * On the freeway going a steady 60 on level roadway - in the loner I never once felt the trans. flutter (see below). This feels as if the brake is being pressed down or the engine is mis-firing in my car. My car is running on 93 oct.

    * Breaking down to 5-10 mph and then accelerating normal - as you do when you catch a green at a 4 way. The loner does have a slight pause but when the engine does kick in it's not a violent lurch and a much shorter duration as in my car. This is probably what the programming effort to the control unit will fix. It's annoying but acceptable in the loner but at times can be quite violent and dangerous in my car.

    Issues with transmission.

    When the car shifts from gear to gear the power transfer is anything but smooth. I thought I could get used to and anticipate the shifting as you do when driving a manual transmission. But the timing of each lull and surge is always different based on speed, acceleration, and road angle (uphill, downhill, level). Besides this is a new car and I expect it to work as well as the car I traded in.

    Symptoms:

    When in Stop and Go traffic, going 5 mph, braking to 3 mph then back to 5 mph - the car lunges forward after a brief pause every time.

    When in the range of 55 mph to 60 mph keeping the foot on the pedal but slightly backing off to slow down and going down the backside of an overpass the transmission flutters between what I believe to be 5th gear and 4th gear for about 2 seconds. This is inconsistent and doesn't happen every time.

    Accelerating hard from a dead stop the car shifts the best. But this isn't normal driving conditions. Slowing down and speeding up especially in the lower gears causes a pause and a lunging engagement into the gears.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Thnaks for the good description. It is the first that may explain why various owners' perceptions may vary.

    The cars I have driven all exhibit symptoms similar to the loaner. That is, the symptoms are very annoying but not perceived as dangerous. On some few vehicles, however, it sounds really bad.

    My apologies to rtorreca. Rtorecca, have you driven other vehicles to compare notes?
  • silversolarasilversolara Member Posts: 113
    my apologies about going off-topic here...

    Has anyone with the 1MZ-FE engine in this forum had any oil sludge problems? i am trying to determine if any Toyota sludge controversies involve car owners who take regular care/maintenance of their cars. i fthis has been covered in the past, i apologize...
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