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Lexus ES 300/ES 330

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Comments

  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    I've had an LS400 and SC400 in the past (still have the LS), and I think the interior of the new ES outdoes both of them quite nicely. It's missing some luxury features like telescoping steering wheel and there are a couple items here and there that feel cheap (e.g. the odometer/TripA/TripB button), but overall, it feels more luxurious. I'm hoping for the same sort of transformation in the GS line when it's redesigned for '04.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    I think it is interesting that even though the ES300 ineteriorwise (?) outshines earlier SCs and LSes, it is still compared to the Camry more often than it is the other Lexuses. I do NOT think the new Camry XLE interior outshines that of the older SCs
  • hakpoonhakpoon Member Posts: 15
    I am also in the market for an ES300 (2002 or 2003)... Anyone knows the best deal in NY/NJ/Philadelphia area? Please send it to hakpoon@hotmail.com

    hak
  • mmccloskeymmccloskey Member Posts: 168
    Greetings all:

    Mileage on my ES300 reached 3,448 miles and I changed the oil/filter yesterday afternoon and it was a breeze. The oil filter was snap to change - I used a new OEM filter (DENSO) and Mobil-1 5W30. As I noted before, there is a small 'tray' attached to the engine just below the oil filter to direct any remaining oil in the filter away from the engine and other components. Overall, this was the tidiest oil change I have ever done. The ES300 is now ready for another 3,500 miles of service.

    HK2LA - I didn't mean to compare the interior of the 2K2 ES300 with that of the Maybach. They are horses of a different color for sure. I consider the interior of the ES300 to be beautifully done in comparison to the other vehicles in the 'near luxury' class. The Maybach interior raises the bar on opulence into the heavens!

    Happy motoring to all -

    M. J. McCloskey
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    From the comparison review...
    "Why buy an ES 300 over a loaded Camry XLE V6 that costs several thousand dollars less and can be equipped with many of the same features? Because you seek the former's higher level of luxury inside the cabin; the greater powertrain and chassis refinement, which yields a silent cabin and a plusher ride; more distinctive exterior styling and a sufficient level of luxury to see you through encounters with important clients and judgmental relatives."

    "Is the I35 more of a Maxima than the ES 300 is a Camry? Yes. Nearly everything's the same right down to the sheet metal and nonindependent rear suspension."

    "Yes, the Lexus ES 300 is based on a Toyota Camry, but there's enough of a luxo-feel to the Lexus to warrant its price premium. You don't get that with the Infiniti."
  • fredvhfredvh Member Posts: 857
    Thanks for the update. By the way, what kind of mpg are you getting? Have you noticed any trouble with the transmission like some owners have complained about?
  • mmccloskeymmccloskey Member Posts: 168
    I am getting 27-28 MPG between fillups (93 Octane). I notice the average MPG display is less (by about 1 MPG) than what I calculate by hand. My driving style and the fact that most of my miles are highway driven contribute to such good mileage.

    Transmission - I don't really detect a problem as others on this board have noted. I have observed that accelerating briskly from 60 MPH I have to really press the accelerator hard to get the car to react. There is a 'slight' delay, then the car gets down to business and moves out smartly. There is very little audible drama eminating from the engine compartment which is very deceiving when reaching 80-90 MPH. I find the engine/transmission are working as they should and the overall performance is more than sufficient.

    I do hope LEXUS resolves the transmission glich for those have severe problems. If not, then this would affect sales of the 2003 model and the value of the 2002's would certainly suffer. Maybe the 2004 model with the larger engine will have a 'perfect' transmission.

    Regards -

    M. J. McCloskey
  • mouseonlinemouseonline Member Posts: 47
    Hi, All,
    I bought my ES300 about 6 months ago.
    The thing I like most about this car is its quietness.
    But it is getting more and more noisier everyday after about 6 months.
    Many time I feel like I didn't close the windows or moonroof totally.
    But I made sure all windows and doors and moonroof were closed totally.
    Am I alone with these road and wind noise getting louder and louder?
    Thanks,
  • texas83texas83 Member Posts: 107
    The problem with my transmission is more than a delay. The problem is there is a delay and when the engine kicks in the RPM's rev to nearly redline and the car doesn't go any where. In fact sometimes mine actually redlines and I have to back off the accelerator. The car accelerates when the RPM drop. When you commit your car to traffic situations, intersections, on-ramps, lane changes, it is extremely dangerous. I've driven two loaners cars and one had only a delay and one had the delay plus the loss of transmission power mine has.

    I'm very happy that some of you aren't having as bad a problem as mine. As to whether I'll be successful with a lawsuit, I really don't care now, I'm so sick of dealing with this dealership I want my pound of flesh. There's no excuse for their incompetence. Like I said before, I think the problem is only related to this dealership. At least I hope so.
  • kc125kc125 Member Posts: 3
    We're looking for an 03 ES300 with Vehicle Skid Control and are being told the only way to get VSC is to get a fully loaded $40,000 car. Is this true in California?
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    But one of the best ways to tell what packages are offered in different areas of the country is to traverse the "build a lexus" links at www.lexus.com, entering zip codes for the various areas. The packages change all the time.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    Note to Edmunds: In both your recent review of the ES 300 and your entry-luxury car comparison, you stated the headrests in the ES 300 do not articulate.

    Not true!

    The headrests do articulate from the bottom.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    The best way to make sure the editors "hear" you is to follow the Help link at the top of this page (there is also one at the very bottom).

    Under "Information" you'll see a link to "About the Editors" - if you know which editor you'd like to address, you can find his or her email address at that link.

    Then there is a section below that titled "Talk to Us" - you have several options there to provide feedback.

    Check it out.
  • chetdudechetdude Member Posts: 5
    This is for Texas83: why do you suspect that your transmission problems may be related to the dealer? From your research, do you think this is a problem with the ES300 line in general? Confined only to 2002? What would you recommend to someone looking at a 2003 ES300?
  • texas83texas83 Member Posts: 107
    There are two problems with my car. The transmission and an extremely annoying rattle in my ceiling console. The dealership has nothing to do with the cause of the transmission issue. But, it would be nice if they at least tried something, since my situation appears to go beyond the problems some are having with their car. From my recent posts, I could see where you might have misunderstood.

    My main animosity lies in the fact they will not return calls about this and about my ceiling rattle. You see I bought the car from a dealer out of town, because this dealer would not negotiate at all plus had expensive additions, and it appears I'm getting retaliatory service. I've called so many times, I wrote a letter, but only through pressure from Lexus Quality Service and the Dealer where I bought the car, have I been able to schedule appointments. Their adjustments in the ceiling have only been temporary and I've been in five times now. They acknowledge the problem and agree it shouldn't be there. After the last failed attempt, I talked to them two weeks ago. They said they needed to talk with a Lexus Engineer and then blew me off again, which is why I'm fed up. Like I've said, I believe this dealer to be an isolated problem, because I've never had this problem with any dealer before. The noise in the ceiling sounds like the twang of a door stopper when I shut the car door, and can hum steadily when I'm waiting at red lights. It would seem so easy to correct.

    Ironically, it's the transmission issue that warrants the most cause for concern, but it's their refusal to handle the ceiling problem that really irks me.
  • texas83texas83 Member Posts: 107
    I'm sorry, I realized I didn't answer all your questions.

    Lexus fully acknowledges this to be a problem with the 2002 model. My understanding is that this car came out last October and by February Lexus had enough complaints to know there was a real problem. I drove two different loaner cars and found both had different levels of the problem. One was almost as bad as mine. Therefore, the problem is systemic but variable. There are an incredible number of reasons that this can be a great car, but I wouldn't buy this car until they correct the transmission problem. Since June, I've been told almost every month that the next month a fix is coming out. One other thing, the car handles like a big car, not a sports car so take that into consideration. Sitting in traffic as much as I do, there's no real need for performance.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Went into the Edmund's town hall archives to see if there were many squawks against the GS 300 - GS 400 transmission in the 1998 - 1999 time period. I did this in an attempt to corroborate what the service manager at my Lexus dealer told me.

    As an ES300 owner, I feel very lucky because, although Lexus replaced the ECU on 1998 GS transmissions, and although there were some complaints by GS owners on the transmission, the $45,000 GS seemed to have so many more problems than the $35,000 ES300 has today. On the Edmund's board at the time, the biggest complaints were: rattling glovebox, rattling moonroof; wind noise, and steering wheel and accelerator vibration. These problems were bothersome enough to cause a fair number of board members to demand that the dealers do something about them, and a fair number of respondents claimed that their glove boxes, moon roofs, etc had been repaired or replaced. A couple of board members complained of sluggish transmission, but relative to the other complaints, the transmission issue paled in comparison.

    By contrast, our 2002 ES300 board has a minute number of complaints about noise compared to the those on the transmission. This could be interpreted a couple of ways:
    1) The 1998 GS transmission problem was not as bad as that of the 2002 ES300.
    2) The other GS problems bothered GS owners so much that it diminished the impact of the transmission problem.

    From my own standpoint, I would not exchange the squeaks, wind noise, bad moonroof and bad glove boxes for the transmission symptom I feel today.

    I say all of this because it gives one hope: not only that the transmission issue will be fixed, but that from here on out, the ES300 will continue to get better so that the next time I buy a new car, it stands a good chance of being (almost) perfect
  • bgh867bgh867 Member Posts: 1
    Any ideas where I can find an OEM CD changer for my 95 ES300 (other than a dealership).
  • bartalk2bartalk2 Member Posts: 326
    Perhaps Lexus will make transmission changes on the '03 model. I'm waiting for reports by '03 buyers on their experience with the transmission. It will probably be a few months before we get reports here on the '03, don't you think?
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    Pat - Thanks for telling me how to write the editors. I was able to send a note to Erin (wrote the comparison test), but Christian's address (wrote the test drive) was not listed.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Glad that I half-helped. :)

    You could also use the Feedback Form and you could send a letter "to the editors" from that page.

    I don't know why Christian Wardlaw is not listed - that's odd.
  • texas83texas83 Member Posts: 107
    Well... I talked with an attorney and he said for the problem to qualify under the Texas Lemon Law, which is probably similar to other states, it cannot be a production flaw. Another words, since this problem is systemic (though variable)to this make and model, it doesn't qualify under Lemon Law protection. If it were an individual problem it would. However, he felt there may be grounds for a class action suit, which he didn't have the resources to handle. So... I'll be looking into that.
  • wayn1wayn1 Member Posts: 69
    Hi. Does anyone know of a company that makes a cable to fit you car's computer diagnostic connector under the dash so you can use your handheld PDA to read trouble codes?
    Thanks
  • dardson1dardson1 Member Posts: 696
    My wife drove a 2000 Solara (2 door Camry) with every option available ($30+k). The comparison between the Toyota/Lexus looked good on paper and we thought a 2 door might be fun again (wrong). Traded for an 01 ES300. The Toyota was very, good. The Lexus is excellent. Can't compare a new Camry to a new Lexus but as far as the last generation......EVERYTHING about the Lexus is better.
    Somebody said "God is in the details." I must agree. Add the great customer service at Lexus compared to the "get in line" attitude at my local Toyota dealer, and I'm happy to cough up another 5k for a Lexus. IMHO
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    If you live in southern california, you can probably find an 03 ES300 on the dealer lots. I know for a fact that there was at least one 2003 at Lexus of Cerritos a week ago, because I saw it with my own eyes.

    You could probably call a dealer and find out about the 2003's or if you live in So Cal, you could probably test drive one.

    I doubt that the transmission has changed. As lenscap or kreativ said in a previous post, the only change is the addition of a power adjustable accelerator. And lenscap and kreativ are pretty much on the money.

    If you are interested in buying a car, I recommend you do the following: call around Southern California Lexus dealers until you get a service manager who agrees that there is a transmission issue, and then ask if it is fixed in the 03 models. You could start with Lexus of Cerritos and ask for Steve, whom I have had good luck with. He'd better admit the transmission problem, since we discussed it in my car.

    The reason I recommend So. California is because their car inventories tend to be huge. Try Lexus of Cerritos and/or Crown Lexus in Ontario. I also think Lexus of Riverside is huge, too. Their turnover is so great that they are likely to have already seen and sold 2003s.
  • kymmy123kymmy123 Member Posts: 15
    Dealer just offered me an 02 with everything but adjustable suspension for 35,750 plus tax, title and insurance. Are they much better offers out there?, I will appreciate any info!
  • kymmy123kymmy123 Member Posts: 15
    I'm in northern NJ!
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    Yes, the side view mirrors dim too.
    You should be getting a loaner for any warranty work that's done. You might have to call in advance to reserve one. If they still don't give you a loaner, then that particular dealer sucks.
  • bartalk2bartalk2 Member Posts: 326
    Thanks for the tip. I don't live in southern California any more, but have family there and on the next trip out may look into the dealerships you recommend. Apparently because of the tremendous supply there, prices are likely to be the best. Meanwhile, I'll wait to see what '03 buyers say about the transmission. I can't imagine with all these complaints, many of which I'm sure Lexus has heard, that they will just do nothing. On the other hand, they're selling so many they may feel complaints comprise just a tiny percentage of buyers.
  • rtorrecartorreca Member Posts: 74
    Car is due for service so while in dealership, complained to them again about the shuddering/jerking transmission. Like before, they said they cannot duplicate the problem. They said they reset the computer so it starts the learning process over. This may improve the feel of the car. It didn't.

    Asked about the firmware updates and they haven't heard of such a thing. The tech said in his many years of working at that dealership, they have never received a firmware update for trannies for any model - even the GS. Some people mentioned here that the older GS models had firmware updates but this may be turn out to be BS. If the older GS models trannies did not use fly-by-wire, there wouldn't be anything to update, right? I mean, if the computer didn't use to control the transmission, how would a firmware updgrade make it shift better?
  • fredvhfredvh Member Posts: 857
    What price would be good for a new 2002 ES300 with the premium package and MSRP of approx. $35,100?
  • hakpoonhakpoon Member Posts: 15
    I am getting quotes ~33k from most dealers in NJ. Anyone getting a better deal... please share?
  • jerrryhosjerrryhos Member Posts: 1
    Loaners: my dealer give laoners as standard practice once ther ecar is there for more than a couple hours. Plus there loaners are 02's ES 300's, pretty good I think.

    HakPoon: Those rates sound pretty good, it looks as though you have just the premium package ordered, and I guess you still have to put tax on that. I'll take it and run if you can!

    I'm also looking to buy, problem is, not many 02's remaining, which is where you can get better prices. I'm in NY, so we are not as lucky like those guys in CA.

    I also must have those HID's, wood steering, and most importantly, Trac and VSC with the all season tires. Good luck with your purchase.

    Kymmy123, does that include nav, if so, where is delaer located?
  • dardson1dardson1 Member Posts: 696
    IMHO one of the best thing about Lexus (at least at my dealership) is the loaner perk. If I call for an appointment even to get the oil changed they'll give me a loaner. They've also washed the car each time I've had it in! We've had the car 18 months (01 end of year model). Not a single issue so far....just the initial check-up and 4 oil changes (10k miles). I thought Lexus micro-managed their dealerships. Surprised to hear about bad service. My dealer, Alderson Lexus in Lubbock TX, absolutely treats you like a king. My math tells me Lexus can only do this if they make trouble-free vehicles. I'm sure keeping a fleet of loaners is expensive.
  • hakpoonhakpoon Member Posts: 15
    Yah.. i am also looking for one with traction control. However, most dealers don't have them in stock for 2002 model, unless going for navigation package which would be another 3k out of pocket.
  • kymmy123kymmy123 Member Posts: 15
    don't even want to mention dealer name, now they were saying my brothers deal for 35,750 was based on an 02, and because he took too long to make his mind up, they are no more optioned the way he wanted, and that an 03 will be more. So basically he's stuck with a higher price, and thinking will options he will have to drop, which also might mean a special order! Thing is, there are certain things that are a must, like the premium package, but he also want the traction and VSC, and those beautiful and efficient HID's!

    He really wanted the 02, seeing there is more room to negotiate, especially when the 03 is the same exact car. We went to 5 dealers, I guess we'll check a couple more. Worse yet the colors we want are hard to come by (gold/ivory) or mystic sea/ivory). Wish us luck!
  • jerryh0sjerryh0s Member Posts: 1
    that is why after your earlier post, I told you if you can get that deal, take it and run. There really isn't all that choice out there now. I'm thinking of getting a more loaded 2002 rather than giving dealer more profit on an 2003. After all, they are basically the same car, aprt from being able to order adjustable pedals, which I dont want anyway.

    According to a couple dealers, there are no more 2002's to come in, only 2003's.

    Looks like Mark Levinson and I will be getting to know each other soon. Let me know how it goes!
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    Since it's essentially the same car (except for the new pedal option), I don't think '03 pricing can stay at an inflated level for too long. After the initial sales to people who don't know it's the same thing as an '02, prices should fall pretty quickly. If you can wait a couple months, you should be able to get good pricing on an '03. Or as they say, the best time to buy a car is the last day of the year. Dealers are most willing to cut a deal and get a sale on that day (and to a lesser but still significant degree, on the last day of every month).
  • billmahanbillmahan Member Posts: 68
    Did I read somewhere here that next year's 2004 model will have a 3.3 V6 and an MP3 player as the only significant changes to the 2003 model?
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    That's the first I've heard of an MP3 player for '04. I seriously doubt that'll happen. This is a car for older people, most of whom have never made an MP3 CD in their life (nor care to). Built-in MP3 support is found in cars targeted for the youth market, such as the Mazda Protege MP3. For those kind of cars though, you might as well buy your own MP3 deck and put it in. It only costs $150 for one these days, which is far cheaper than the markup put on by the auto manufacturer. The MP3 CD unit in the Protege MP3 is pretty much just a Kenwood aftermarket unit.

    Back to the topic, the V6 3.3L putting out an estimated 240hp is the only news so far on the '04.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    I went into the archives on the 1998 GS, and there were, indeed complaints on the transmission. But what was replaced under warranty was the ECU, which our ES300s don't have.

    Sorry for being slightly misleading.
  • billmahanbillmahan Member Posts: 68
    What do you know about the 3.3 V6 for 2004?

    Thanks.
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    The ES has an ECU (Engine Control Unit).
    IS300 owners also had their ECUs replaced under warranty to fix a shift problem with their e-shift. No more hesitation problems for them anymore.
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    I don't know what else you wanted to know about the new 3.3L V6, but that's about all the public info there is on it at this time. It'll also be used in the Lexus RX, Camry V6, etc.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    but because of this board and folks like you and lenscap, I am learning more. ECU or no, the fact that Lexus provides fixes for all these other cars' problems gives hope that there may be a fix for us. And I do not think the service manager at Lexus of Cerritos was BSing when he told me about the crummy GS and LS transmissions that Lexus replaced.

    (I thought the ECU had something to do with that power button that the old 4 speed toyota vehicles had, which is why I thought the 02 ES300 did not have one.)
  • esswebessweb Member Posts: 51
    Since the RX is pretty much base on the camry platform as ES does, has anyone every consider a RX vs ES before deciding the ES? and why?
  • hakpoonhakpoon Member Posts: 15
    Finally, I settled with a 03 es300 with premium pakcage, HID, heated seats, and leather trimmed steering wheel for $33,300 + tax and fees(MSRP 35,961). I checked several dealers here (NY/NJ), all told me that VSC is only bundled with navigation package in 03 models or must be special ordered which may take up to 4-5 months...
  • domettgdomettg Member Posts: 55
    I need to replace the Michelin MXV4's on my '99 ES and I would appreciate a recommendation on a good all-season that is quiet. I don't think the MXV4's are all that quiet and their snow performance is terrible for an all-season.

    Thanks in advance!
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    I put BFGoodrich Touring T/As on my 1995 ES 300. This after a friend of mine had recommended them. They were very quiet and great in poor weather. Far better than the original Dunlops (which lasted only 20,000 miles). And the set of four was around $375.

    I highly recommend them.
  • neuroguyneuroguy Member Posts: 34
    The best set of tires I ever had was on my '98 Audi A4 Quattro and they were Goodyear Eagle RS-A's.

    http://www.goodyeartires.com/catalog/products/EAGLERSA.html

    They were very grippy in all weather and were pretty darn quiet, too. But if quiet is what you're really after, check out the Goodyear Eagle LS:

    http://www.goodyeartires.com/catalog/products/EAGLELS.html

    But with that, I'd suspect you'd trade snow traction for quietness. So, I'd go with the RS-A's. The Goodrich tires lenscap mentions are also a good choice - had them on my last Celica. (Although they were Comp T/A's)
This discussion has been closed.