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Lexus ES 300/ES 330

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Comments

  • slesssless Member Posts: 10
    You're right, California is the greatest weatherwise, but we are paying dearly for it! And I'm looking forward to driving the coast in a sedan rather than a minivan! I test drove the is300 today and boy that would be a blast to have, afraid I'd never make it work, I'd just be out driving all the time.
  • slesssless Member Posts: 10
    Do you have any idea what the differences will be with the 2002? And does it make any sense to wait for it? My Toyota is fine and I'm not in any rush to purchase. I do know this is a great time to sell my Sienna as there are none for sale in the paper and haven't been for some time.
  • scongroscongro Member Posts: 80
    Details are sketchy for the '02 ES, but with all of the auto shows coming up, look for a full press release.

    enigma probably knows more than anyone in here about Lexus, so he'll probably share if he knows.
  • eglassereglasser Member Posts: 4
    Hello,

    Here's the plan: Seeing as though there's no difference in the '00 and '01 ES300's, I thought I might wait it out just a bit longer to see how much further the '00's will be incentivized (sp?). I think it's $2,500 and $600 to get rid of 'em respectively. Does anybody have an idea when the dealers would run short of '00's? Or is this a bad strategy that will blow up in my face?
  • scongroscongro Member Posts: 80
    Some dealers may have a few '00's left. As far as the discount on them, I don't know. It's not like there was really any difference between the two. If their had been, then a discount would be very possible.

    I'd give it a shot, though, because you never know...

    There will probably be some available somewhere (not necessarily at your dealer) through the end of January.
  • lievliev Member Posts: 93
    yeah, great price. Scrongo is right too. The 2002 model is coming soon in a few months but keep in mind that the price tag would not be the same and since it is the first year of the new model, there won't be much of a discount (probably you can get 1000 off if you're lucky). I also heard that the sticker price is going to be around 40K.
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    Price: I don't think you should be paying much more than a couple hundred over invoice at this point for a 2001. If you are a Price Club/Costco member, find out what the prenegotiated price in your area is.

    Car: I've driven a 2000 ES300 for 6 months now. It has it's plusses and minuses, but overall, for the $31,300 I paid for it I was pleased. The minues are (in my opinion) Toyota styling, medium quality paint, no window frames, modest sport performance. The plusses are good value for the money, lots of nice interior features, excellent climate control and stereo, moderately good luxury ride, excellent maintanence record. I got rid of a MBZ 300E when I bought the ES300. IMHO the ES300 was as close to the MBZ I could get without spending $48-55K for a new E-class. I thought it was a much better deal than the C230/C280, I30, TL, A4/A6 for the money (ie, very low 30's). Had I been faced with paying near MSRP, like the upcoming 2002's are likely to be selling for, I might have made a different decision.

    BTW: the paint issue may be more of all the makers being forced to use water based paints now. I've heard of several complaints on the new MBZs as well.
  • slesssless Member Posts: 10
    As I'm looking at the black exterior the saleman advised to have the paint sealed (that wasn't the term, but general meaning) for around $500. He said the black when scratched, with drying it off afer washing, etc.) reflects colors!? Anyone know what he was talking about and any suggestions. He said a good option is the dark charcoal color, which looks like a dull black.
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    Selling paint sealents, teflon coatings, etc. is a profit center for the dealers and IMHO a real disservice to customers who drive off thinking that they need not perform periodic exterior maintanence now that they have paied the dealer hunderds of dollars for an overpriced wax job.

    Black is the most reflective color, and also the most difficult color to keep looking great because every little scratch is visible on it. Charcoal is probably a good compromise for practial reasons. The enevitable dust and sratches will be harder to see.

    Most scratches and swirls come from washing the car with dirty rags and rags that are not 100% cotton, and from environmental dust and dirt and from car wash equipment and inattentive personnel. Rather than spending $500 on a dealer coating, check out zainobros.com and/or megiuers.com for lots of car care products and info. There is also a zaino and several car care discussion threads on Edwards.
  • texplorertexplorer Member Posts: 9
    sddlw, you said in item #357 that you should probably not pay more than a couple of hundred dollars over invoice for a 2001. I'm assuming that's for an on-the-lot car. Do you think the bargaining power is as great for a car that has to be ordered? That looks like my only option for the car I'm interested in, according to just about every dealer and car search company I've contacted. (And Texas is not part of Costco's area.) Thanks for any opinion (anyone!).
  • rollomanrolloman Member Posts: 64
    Call 800 330-9155 and speak to Connie Johnson at Lexus of Fort Myers.

    A few months back she quoted me a price on a new ES at $100 over invoice. All the bells and whistles with no catch. I got the invoice price from Edmunds.com, of course.

    Never bought the car because I decided to keep my 96 ES which is in showroom condition, but Miss Johnson was ready to make the deal happen....much more so than these fat cat Lexus dudes here in Houston.

    Give her a try little dawgy! Good luck!
  • texplorertexplorer Member Posts: 9
    Hi Rolloman--that's a great deal on an order! How were you going to get the car to Houston? (I'm in Austin). Were you going to pick it up yourself or can the delivery be marked for your local dealer? I'm going to give her a call today and find out the specifics. Thanks for the helpful info!
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    I really don't buy cars enough to know if you can get as good a bargan on an ordered car. My first guess would be probably not. But I don't know.

    The things I have done is to check out various prenegotiated prices such as through my credit union and Costco/Price Club, looked at the internet brokers, got info from Edmunds and several other car sites, and then started calling the dealers, talking to the sales managers that deal with the credit unions, fleet sales and internet brokers. Making contact the last week of the month sometimes helps too. Everyone is worried about quotas. But a couple of dealers in my area had several cars I would have been happy to own, so my deal was pretty easy. Now this was back on a 2000 in August. But with the big change to the new 2002 models things are going to get very aggressive on the older body style very soon. But will they be agressive on a made-to-order car? I don't know.

    One last thing, the Costco price in San Diego was very agressive, and the best thing was you didn't need to be a well practiced negotiator. You got this price just by showing up.
  • lievliev Member Posts: 93
    100 over invoice? god, I think I won't be able to sleep for at least a few nights. I paid 1850 over invoice on my 2001 es a couple months ago.
  • slesssless Member Posts: 10
    Your comments have been much appreciated. When you talk about dealers becoming aggressive with the 2001 models, do you think this will start in the next couple of months or closer to when the 2002 are being delivered? Do you think they might drop their prices lower than invoice? I'm not in a rush to buy and want to get the best possible deal (don't we all). Thanks
  • rickc5rickc5 Member Posts: 378
    Before I start, let me assure you we still have our '97 ES300. But check this out.....

    Last Saturday we traded our other vehicle (a '98 Isuzu Trooper) for a new Ford Expedition (we wanted more room?). Gotta have at least one 4x4 here in Denver.

    Although we got a lousy trade-in on the Trooper ($14.1K vs. $15K-17K according to NADA, KBB and Edmunds), we got the Expedition for $650 BELOW invoice. Yes, below invoice! The dealer split their holdback with us.

    I visited four Ford dealers before finally securing this deal, but it just shows how many (American) dealers are overloaded with vehicles. This particular dealer had about 60 Expeditions, 12 in the color we wanted, and four with free (yes, FREE) moonroofs. Naturally, we got a free moonroof.

    My opinion? If the economy keeps sliding, good deals may soon be available on ANY vehicle, including Lexus. $100 above invoice is surely achieveable, if one is willing to go through the efforts.

    It took me quite a bit of effort to get such a good deal, but I saved about $1000 over the nearest competing dealer.

    I'm one happy camper!
  • hayabusahayabusa Member Posts: 26
    Heard the news already? Lexus is reintroducing the ES 300 coach edition in a few months, on the current model. Why? I don't know why...
  • texplorertexplorer Member Posts: 9
    Liev, rest easy.
    I talked to Ms. Johnson in Fort Myers and she was only able to offer me about $1060 over invoice (including advertising fees?). Maybe the $100-over-invoice offer that rolloman got was for a 2000 at the beginning of 2001's. Don't know, though.

    Hayabusa--She also told me about the "Coach" edition, which according to her, would completely replace the Value Package (wouldn't even be able to order it--again, her words). She wasn't sure what it would entail, but thought POSSIBLY textured leather, extra wood on the dash, floor mats embroidered with "Coach Edition," emblem on the outside and/or extra stylized wheels. Why do it? I guess to squeeze more money out of the line before it becomes "extinct" with its last refinements on the design.

    From the little that I've been researching this, I agree with others that pricing will probably be fairly competitive and aggressive on 2001's toward the end of the year. So good luck to all of us still in the market!

    And I really appreciate all the helpful information that everyone's been offering about their purchasing experiences. It's been VERY useful for honing in my decision-making.
  • rollomanrolloman Member Posts: 64
    Granted, it's been about 6 months since I spoke with Connie, but she was firm at $100 over invoice for a new 2001 ES Millenium package. Maybe her dealer has decided to keep more $$$...very disappointing if true.

    I would fax her the invoice price from the Edmunds.com site on the ES with your preferred options. The ad. fee is on top of any negotiated price...plus you can save $500 for being a previous Lexus owner...which is deducted after any final neg. price. Don't mention until the end of deal.

    I would have to pay around $600 to have delivered to my front door..or fly down to Ft. Myers and drive back up...long trip.

    I would think that Connie would do better than $1000 over invoice....if not, keep searching.

    Good luck and VIVA BUSH!!!
  • rcoosrcoos Member Posts: 167
    I'm wondering if the Toyota Avalon XLS is a better value then the Lexus ES300?

    I know that the Lexus is made in Japan & the Toyota in the US.

    It looks to me that the Avalon XLS has all the features of the ES300, has a bigger interior & costs less.

    I would like to see the '02 ES300. Will it be the same size as the Avalon?

    Ralph
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    No doubt the deals will get easier as we go into spring and summer, but at some point the 2001 assembly line will be shut down and re-tooled. Exactly how the last couple months go for car availability is anyone's guess as Lexus seems to keep inventory and back-log relatively low so they can keep their prices higher (unlike Frod or GM). Also being in a large metro area helps as there may be several dealers to choose from.

    Good luck.
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    A lowsy trade value and a super price on the new, or a great trade and a lowsy price on the new are all the same to the dealer, or anything in between are all the same to the dealer in terms of $$$. If the sales guy perceives that you need a great price on the new but are not going to be as adament about the trade value, that is exactly how the deal will go down. I would really try to keep the two trasactions completely separate during negotiations. Get your best price on the new car and then talk trade.
  • rickc5rickc5 Member Posts: 378
    Three of the Ford dealers offered me essentially the same deal, at no prodding from me. They all had nearly identical ads in the local papers. The deal offered was: their vehicle @ invoice, our trade @ $12.5-13.5.

    The fourth dealer was offering "employee pricing", which made the difference on their price on the Expedition. Pressure from me increased our trade-in value.

    The reason for the low trade-in was: 1) Trooper values have taken a significant dive since the latest crash testing found them to be extremely expensive to fix and there's a possibility of a gas leak (recalled, but who cares?). 2) There are TONS of 4x4s for sale here in Denver, both new and used, and the Trooper was undesireable for reason #1.

    I feel lucky to have gotten this deal. We were also looking at the Toyota Sequoia, but Toyota dealers wanted MSRP or more for their vehicles, with the same trade-in value for our Trooper. We saved over $9000 vs. a similarly equipped Sequoia. Since the Sequoia is based on the problem-prone Tundra, I believe we made the right choice. Time will tell.

    However, I agree with you that the deals might even get better.
  • pighpenhpighpenh Member Posts: 2
    Concerning repair manuals (à la Haynes or Chilton-style) for the 1997 Lexus ES300:

    Lexus dealers appear to be willing to order one of their Real Deal manuals from Headquarters upon request......in a size and weight that would make Moses blush and at a price that would read like my current odometer reading preceded by a dollar sign!

    Therefore, for purposes of routine self-maintenance such as oil changes and basic wiring, etc., can anyone report on whether the 1997 Toyota Camry/Avalon manuals such as those offered at:

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0801993261
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/156392336X

    ......are of any value where the 1997 Lexus ES300 is concerned. I keep reading opinions on how similar - and dissimilar - the guts of the ES300 and the Camry are. So? Camry manual for simpler ES300 tasks? Thoughts? Experiences? Thanks.
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    Both are nice cars. It would depend on what is important to you. Value is indeed in the eye's of the beholder. I do not need the extra room of the Avalon, and prefer the ride of the ES300. I'll admit it, I like having a Lexus rather than a Toyota as well. Snobish? Maybe. But I think a great car that others appreciate is just one of life's little pleasures.
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    I can appreciate you situation. I always end up selling my old car myself, and just deal as agressively on the new car as I can without the distraction of the trade-in. But then we tend to hold onto our cars a while when we buy them new, or purchase them used with low miles. So we usualy end up with too high a mileage for the dealer to want to put them on their lot for resale. At this point, the dealer is just turning them over to a wholesaler and the value to the dealer is quite low. When we bought our 2000 ES300 I sold a 92' MB 300E. I sold it for $16,500 when the best trade-in offer I could get was $12,000! But the reality was that the Lexus dealer wasn't going to put an 8 year old car with 2 previous owners on their lot, regardless of mileage or condition.
  • turbotcturbotc Member Posts: 163
    I have to disagree with you. When I graduated from college I was told by my girlfriend (now wife) to get rid of my Nissan '87 300zx. So I brought it to local Nissan dealer to trade in for a Maxima. The offered me $4500 trade in for my 300zx. I told them to go to hell. The car is 6 years old with 73k miles. They said it was high mileage and that they have to take it to an auction and auction it off. So I told them to F$@#& off and walk back to my car. I then noticed they had a, '86 300zx on their used car lot with 105k miles. The car is a year older, has more miles, and not in as good condition as mine and they had $6995 on the windshield. I walked back in and point out to salesman and all he could say was ....duh dah well...well..it was...duh..
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    If the dealer didn't want your car, it's hard to get a good trade in, that's for sure. And there is not any consistancy on a car to car bases, only generalities. Sometimes they are interested in a really popular color, or not interested in an unpopular one. Cars people have smoked in don't do well. Maybe the right sales guy was off that day, or they gave up too much on the trade-in to wholesale the car once everything was said and done. I just meant to say in general, most dealers will want to keep their used car lot filled with newer, lower milage cars, and in general, the ones they don't want get wholesaled, and that is generally a lousy deal for the consumer. The lease program and brand loyalty work out really well in this regard. I've got ties to a couple of Mercedes dealerships in southern california through family and people we know. The local dealer in Carlsbad rarely has a car with more than 50-60K miles or more than 4-5years on it. Most are lease returns a 36 and 39 mo with 30-50K miles. But there are exceptions. They once had a 9 year old, 78K mile 300SE in nice condition. Why did they decide to keep that one? I guess they thought they could sell it quick. Who knows? But my experience has always been my cars are too old and too many miles for the dealer's used car lot to be much interested.
  • sethkevinsethkevin Member Posts: 2
    Can you give me some advice on what tires you
    recommend for me? I just bought a used '98 lexus es 300 with the tire size 205/65/15 V rated.

    The original tires that are still on the car (it has 30,000 miles) need to be replaced are Goodyear Eagle GA's. I've been to tirerack.com and people seem to hate this kind of tire.

    I live in Los Angeles, so don't need to worry about snow. I don't know who to trust and have been given advice to buy either Michelin Energy Plus or Pilot XGTHY.

    What do you suggest? My main desire is to keep this as a luxury sedan, i.e. no noise, long lasting, seldom rains.

    Also what's your opinion on me getting a wider tire (they said i could consider a 215/60/15). And also is the V versus H rating a big deal for me? Please give me your definitive choice and cut through the cluttter for a Lexus ES 300.

    Thanks in advance!

    Thanks again for your help!
  • rickc5rickc5 Member Posts: 378
    I'm of the opinion that most dealers try to make more profit on the trade-in than on the new sale. Especially if they are selling the new vehicle at invoice or below. A substantial portion of their trade-in pitch is pure BS.

    When I bought my Lexus, one dealer used a new story on me (one I hadn't heard before): "We can buy a car like yours at auction for $xxx." Of course, $xxx was about $2K below blue book. Awfully hard to come up with a response to that type of crap except to say, "I don't care, mine's worth more".

    While I would prefer to sell my vehicles rather than trade them in, two things usually keep me from doing it: 1) I don't have the time to mess with all the looky-loos, and 2) my cars are usually too new and few used car buyers can buy a pricey vehicle from a private party without financing, which of course is easy to get from a dealer.

    These guys will NEVER give us the deal(s) we expect and deserve. Its just not the way they play the game.
  • rickc5rickc5 Member Posts: 378
    I recently put a set of Dunlop D60A2s on my '97 ES. They are extremely quiet, handle well and are considered to be high-performance, all-season tires. Plus, I got a set of four for just a little over $300. Great deal!
  • maclarkmaclark Member Posts: 1
    I've been looking for an 2001 ES300 with more than just the value package, but the dealer's I've visited (3 in DC area) say they aren't available. Specifically, I wanted the Adaptive Variable Suspension, Vehicle Skid Control, and chrome wheels. In fact, the salesmen/women did everything they could to discourage me from even ordering a car with these options!

    Something sounds fishy to me. Anyone have a guess why they're doing this?

    I'll bet it has something to do with profit...
  • mike_e_smithmike_e_smith Member Posts: 20
    I had to order my 2000 Lexus ES300 in December 1999 and wait 4 1/2 months to get Vehicle Skid Control, HID Lights, and 16" Chrome Wheels. None of the cars at the dealer had the VSC even though it is a relatively cheap option and I live in Upstate New York. I'm glad I waited, although it was difficult at the time, since we've already had 110 inches of snow in Syracuse this winter. With 4 15" alloy wheels for winter and matching Arctic Alpins as well as VSC, the car has been great. I confess to taking it out after the first few snowfalls just for fun. I don't know why every car around here is not delivered with the VSC, but I guess most non-special order cars are manufactured with the basic options that are considered most popular. (or perhaps these packages are more prevalent in other geographic regions).
  • polark1940polark1940 Member Posts: 1
    I also own a 1998 ES300 and replaced my tires at 38000 with B.F.Goodrich Touring tires.
    I bought the H rated for the comfort. believe H is rated at 132 m.p.h.and V is rated at 147 m.p.h.Total price for 4 tires mounted and balanced with road hazard insurance and lifetime balancing and rotation was $350.00.I live in Fontana Ca.With the rains we just had they handled real well.Tirerack.com gives ratings on most tires. have 44600 miles on the car now and I am pleased with the tire performance.
  • afinegoldafinegold Member Posts: 57
    Rolloman,

    Don't mean to beat a possibly dead horse, but you said in your post #369 that about 6 months ago Connie "was firm at $100 over invoice for a new 2001 ES Millenium package." If I recall right, the Millennium package has never been offered on 2001s, only on the 2000s (I have one of them). So if you remember her saying $100 over cost on a Millennium car, it was a left-over 2000, and that would make sense as she would be trying to clear our last year's inventory.

    Al--
  • rollomanrolloman Member Posts: 64
    It was a 2000! My mistake.
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    I'd have to agree. Espeically with the 36 and 39 mo. leased cars. Most residual values these leases are way below what the dealer is going to ask on their used car lot. And the dealers have a constant supply of low cost/low mileage used cars to sell. This may also be why getting full wholesale on a trade-in is hard. Unless the dealer is hurting for cars to sell, they would have little incentive.
  • jzioljziol Member Posts: 1
    Gas pedal in my 2000 ES300 is in an odd position, so it is very uncomfortable on right foot and leg while driving. Has anyone else noticed this problem, and does anyone know if all lexus models are this way? I am thinking of trading for a GS300, but the thought of a similar situation with the gas pedal has me worried. Thanks.
  • rollomanrolloman Member Posts: 64
    Can anyone direct me to the best tire for my 96 ES?

    I'm interested in a whisper quiet ride and high mileage. Currently have Goodyear Eagle GA and want to know if I can do better in price and dependability.

    Thanks in advance.
  • lilsteve13lilsteve13 Member Posts: 1
    Hello everyone iam a new member and I have a 1995 ES300 and i was just wonder what tires i should have on my car. Should I ever get an S rating tire or is it safer to go with an H rating. Any info would be nice. Thanks
  • afinegoldafinegold Member Posts: 57
    jziol,

    I have a 2000 ES300 and I have not noticed a problem with the position of the gas pedal or the brake pedal. Sounds odd. Next time you're at the dealer, can you sit in either a 2000 or 2001 ES300 (they should be identical inside) and check out how your foot feels there. Same with a GS300 that you may be interested in, of course.

    Could it possibly be that your power seat is adjusted at a slight angle and that is throwing off your leg position just enough to make it feel uncomfortable?

    Or could it perhaps be that the gas pedal was put on--or kicked into--a squirrly position and needs to be straigtened out or realigned?

    Let us know what you discover.

    Al Finegold
  • jpdavidjpdavid Member Posts: 1
    Has anyone used regular gas in an ES300 with bad results?
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    Mine runs just fine on 87 octane, but I notice a small improvement with 92 octane. My wife swears there is no difference, and always fills it with 87 octane. I thought there might be a small difference in miles per gallon, but have never been able document one when I check the numbers.
  • scongroscongro Member Posts: 80
    If you want to own a Lexus, just go ahead and put 93 in the car and pay the Xtra .20 a gallon. I've owned three (Including a '90 ES). An I always put premium iin the tank
  • rob175rob175 Member Posts: 19
    I have a beautiful 2000 ES300 Platinum Edition and I run 87 octane with no problems at all! Good mpg (22 average mpg)& no knocks. I "played around" with the premium grades and found that the only difference was that I paid about $3.00 more per tank.......then I said "WHY"?... and came to my senses deciding that the oil companies are rich enough.

    Years ago, when I owned a 69 Pace Car Edition Camaro with a 4-barrel big block I would run 102 Octane racing fuel....now that DID make a difference! (but in those days I was paying 75 cents a gallon for the stuff and I had little else to spend my money on and wanted to impress the ladies with my horsepower!....lol)
  • rickc5rickc5 Member Posts: 378
    You would just waste money by using any higher grade of gasoline than 87 octane regular. The computers in the engine's ignition system protect it from "pinging" (pre-mature detonation), and I don't even notice a difference in performance. My '97 ES gets about 24 mpg in town and almost 30 on the highway, using regular.
  • rollomanrolloman Member Posts: 64
    Any recommendations on the best brand and speed rating for tires for my 96 ES?

    Sure would appreciate it.
  • afinegoldafinegold Member Posts: 57
    To Forum Moderator or any other participants,

    I may be the only one affected, but it's frustrating for me to log onto this forum and everytime start at post #290 (of 397 so far). I then have to scroll forward to the end of the discussion and try to figure out what the last post I read was. Does anyone know how to turn on the "bookmark" feature (I think that's what it was called on the old system--where the system logs you in at the last post when you logged out the previous visit.

    Any help from the Forum Moderator or anyone else on this? And does anyone else have this same problem?

    Thanks,

    Al Finegold
  • lievliev Member Posts: 93
    Like rob175 said, the high octane gas DID make a difference in his other car, why would think that it would make a difference in the ES too. I always use premium to be safe because I think that the gas would have something to do with the engine. Don't you guys think so? I think if I can afford an ES, I can also afford spending $150 more a year on gas to prevent problems later on. Well, I guess it depends on how much I drive your car too. If it cost me 2 tanks a week, I probably start using 87.
  • eragererager Member Posts: 3
    I'm considering purchase of a used car, and I'm interested in input from Lexus owners. I'm considering 1998 cars because I don't like buying new cars considering dealer hassles and depreciation. There are lots of 98s coming off lease now.

    My wants:
    *"Near Luxury" (i.e. nice car for driving with friends and business clients)
    *Reliability
    *Decent fuel efficiency
    *Safety
    *Roomy enough back seat to seat two comfortably

    Since my query on "which would YOU buy" is about YOU, feel free to substitute your own criteria. But note that auto handling, power, cornering
    are not my primary considerations --- assuming the car performs and handles decently.

    Here are the cards I'm considering:

    1998 Audi A6
    Prices realized @ dealers' auction: $20k-25k, depending on odometer, condition, and options. Less for non-Quattro if you can find one.

    1998 Lexus ES300
    Prices realized @ dealers' auction: $16k-21k, depending on odometer, condition, and options.

    1998 or 1997 BMW 528 (with more miles on it than either the A6 or ES300 to keep the price down) Prices realized @ dealers' auction: $24k-28k, depending on odometer, condition, and options. There are many between $28k and $32k, but as I wish to stay under $30k, I would have to buy one with 40,000 miles plus (maybe even 50k plus) on the odometer (feel free to factor that in to your decision).

    I plan to test drive each of these in the coming weeks., but based on the reviews and research on the Internet, I've narrowed the field to these three (but if you have a strong recommend on another I'm willing to listen.) I'm big on reliability and I'm a real debt-hater, so that favors the Lexus it seems. I like the uniqueness of the A6, and without the Quattro it's a lot of luxury for the price. I like the prestige and looks of the BMW.

    So, which would YOU buy?
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