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Lexus ES 300/ES 330
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Comments
2002 ES - completely redesigned
2004 ES - powertrain changes (new 3.3L engine)
2005 ES - minor design refreshening
2007 ES - complete redesign
Unless they change their strategy of basing the ES300 on the Camry, they will continue the practice, making the two cars similar.
In 2002, the Camry and ES300 were both completely redesigned.
In summary, prices reported on the board are tending to be between 89 and 90% of MSRP for standard packages. If you get chrome wheels or gold packages or black pearl packages, this number will be skewed. When doing your price assessment, calculate your percentage of MSRP based upon everything except state/local government fees (taxes and license) that are the BUYER's responsibility.
I have seen posts in the 88-90 of MSRP range for all geographical regions of the US, but it seems to be easier to get the discount in some areas than in others.
Good luck.
Nope, Camry also changes every 5 years, right along with the Lexus ES.
92-96 was one body style for both Camry and ES300.
97-2001 was the same body style for Camry and ES300.
And 2002-2006 should be it for the current generation Camry/ES300/ES330.
So, you will see totally redesigned Camrys and ES's for the 2007 model year.
Aside from license,tax and $12.50 tire tax,Is there anything else that they may charge me at closing? Thanks for any info or advice.
Thanks for the correction. End of 2006? Sounds a bit far away then. On Camry and ES, I can tell the design change easily between 92-96 Camry and the one from 97-01, but the ES between the two generations seem lots more similar, despite the ES300 logo's going up and down a bit.
Sarah,
Everything less NAV? Can you get ML on it? Does it have VSC/AVS/Adj. Peddle too? In any case, that sounds like a few hundreds under invoice and a very good deal? Looks like ES330 price just keeps dropping!
Small wonder this is the typical response from any Lexus salesman trying to make a sale. it'd be shocking if he didn't say that.
As for what else they may charge you when you close the deal, they may tack on an "advertising fee" and other misc. fees. It's best to agree on a firm "out the door" price than allow them to add on whatever fees they want after you thought you've already worked out the price.
Also, igiban, I believe if Sarah gets lower than some others, it is probably more due her negotiation approach than the over-all price drop.
BTW, he gave me until the end of the month for the price. I am getting everything including VSC. ML? Is that the audio system? I'm not sure.
How much is the price for the NAV? I may add that if the price is right,if not,I'm happy without it.
BTW, ML is the upgraded audio (Mark Levinson), which is much better than the base one. Can you verify that yours does come with ML, as I've not been able to find any ES that's ML but no NAV. I was told Lexus does not package ES like that. I'd be interested in one w/o NAV but with ML, esp. on your price range.
Also, my impression is that they generally don't discount as much on ES with NAV as the ones w/o. But with your nice salesperson at bay, who knows.
Can anybody tell me how to check for transmission problem? The nice sales rep. agreed to let me test drive my car(before I get it)tomorrow. I'll get the car on Sat. after their pre-delivery inspections and all the paperwork involved.
Are you sure you can get NAV with less than $31K? Your sales rep. may be even much nicer than I thought! Is he trying to date you or what?
Navs are interesting. At the time I bought my car, March 2002, the residual value for leased vehicles with Navs was less than without Navs.
Also, I predicted that in the future, all vehicles would have Navs in them. But you would have been very surprised at all the people who wanted to get ML with no Nav at the time. In those days, you had to special order that kind of configuration because the packages only had the Nav/ML combinations.
Well as long as it's $2K+ for NAV I am sure there'd be people opting out. For a typical family I just don't see every car needing a NAV. I have one already and if I were to get another car most likely I'd not pay $2k+ to get a NAV on it. That's unless the price of NAV drops to say, $500. So I may live w/o NAV, but I'd need ML, unless they upgrade ES base audio, if I were to get another ES.
The Nav will say "make a legal U Turn", and then show you the actual turn.
In some cases, however, it has you make a series of right turns.
Now I really regret that.
I bought a new GX470 last week with everything loaded. I love the NAV.
Maybe in the next year or so, I will trade in my ES for a new Lexus with NAV.
In 2002, I had a handheld NAV ($200) linked to a laptop($1000). So I thought the NAV $2000 was over priced. I was wrong. The NAV on my GX is so much easier to use that my handheld+laptop setup.
I will never buy a car without NAV.
The NAV will pay for itself in saved gas over time from not getting lost! The few dollars up front is worth it - especially when you ammortize the cost over the life of the car - especially on a car of this caliber/price. I too will never get a car without NAV. Doing so would be "penny wise and pound foolish".
ALWAYS GET THE NAV if you buy a Lexus! It's easy to use and invaluable!
Here's my question: If I get the updated DVD for my 2002 will I get the new nav "unit," or will it be the same just with more entries in the database. I doubt anybody knows the answer but I figure I'll ask anyway.
Enhanced Navigation System
The optional Lexus Navigation System for the ES 330 has been improved for 2004. As before, the system uses a DVD for map storage, containing the contiguous United States, plus major cities in Canada, on one disc. This system includes multi-language selection and very fast route calculation (about five seconds). The revised system features better, easier-to-understand graphics, a larger point of interest (POI) database and new convenience functions.
New map modes show freeway exit information, an intersection guide, upcoming exits (a benefit if the driver passes an intended exit), points of interest at the exits and a compass.
The DVD map database now contains more than five million points of interest (POI), compared to two million before. The database for Chicago, Detroit, Los Angeles and New York features new "building footprint" graphics, which shows a 3D rendering of the building in its location. This feature can be useful for identifying buildings and their surroundings. As before, system functions include multi-route calculation, route preview, simplified highway junction graphics, and a dual-map screen mode. The navigation system comes with a center-console mounted six-disc CD auto-changer as well as a single-disc player in the dash.
http://www.lexus.com/about/press_releases/popups/2003/pr_08_26_a.- - - html
What looks like hot stuff today, will look ancient in no time!!
That said, I think it is better to have an older NAV than none at all!
If Toyota is smart, their software is designed with a "layer" that speaks to the individual user interface. But the underlying stuff is the same for all vehicles.
For example, in 2002, the Avalon, Camry, ES300, LS, IS, GS all had NAVs with the same underlying maps and turn by turn direction software. But their user interfaces (buttons, selection, voice control, etc.) were all different.
If this is the case, there will be a different user interface layer for the 2002 vs 2004, but the software will accommodate updates to the underlying capability.
Several Lexus models for 2004 incorporate Bluetooth® wireless technology and updated features, including a larger point of interest (POI) database, improved screen graphics, phone number-based address location and building footprint display. Bluetooth® technology uses radio signals to allow Bluetooth®-enabled cellular telephones to wirelessly connect with the navigation system to synchronize phone books and to make hands-free phone calls.
The DVD map database in the new system now contains more than five million POIs, compared to two million for the previous system. The map database for Chicago, Detroit, Los Angeles and New York features new "building footprint" graphics, which shows a 3D rendering of the building in its location. This feature can be useful for identifying buildings and their surroundings - helpful for example, when looking for nearby landmarks. Additional functions of the navigation system vary by vehicle. The LS 430 features a large seven-inch screen and incorporates voice command recognition. The driver can operate the system totally hands-free using 300 different voice commands. The navigation systems offered in the ES 330, SC 430, GS sedans and RX 330 feature touch-screen technology.
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =2004lexus_tech
Yes I am sure Nav will just keep getting better like all the e-gears. But I have not seen this built-in auto. Nav getting much cheaper yet. Still a $2K+ proposal in new ES and TL...
BTW, gekko2, seven-inch screen Nav that incorporates voice command recognition is already in TL and TSX, so I'd think ES will get that down the road. Did you actually try enter MacD or safeway or Walgreen and it finds the cloest one to yours? This got to be using one or two of the extra 3 mil POI. Nice.
Wonder how one of these mobile navs stack up?
The new NAV in the 2004 ES330 has all the upgrades igiban referred to, I believe. Also, in order to save screen real estate (for lenscap's info), some of the selections are now on the push buttons and not on the touch screen. For example "DEST" is a hard pushbutton on the 2004, whereas on my 2002 ES300, these buttons are on the touch screen.
I suspect that some of the new features require a new NAV front panel, such as the Bluetooth wireless interface, so if you have an older NAV, you would not be able to avail yourself of it without purchasing some new hardware.
My 2002 ES300 would not be able to accommodate the bluetooth.
However, I believe that you CAN get updated software with more POI, etc. for older vehicles.
On my last service maintenance, I was able to demo the 2004 ES330 NAV, but I was looking for specific errors to be fixed, so I did not pay much attention to the different user interface.
It turned out that the major errors (which are in the map itself) were NOT fixed and the turn-by-turn and map data were not updated my rural area, so I did not pursue any more questions on the possibility of upgrading the softare on my 2002.
A Mac Classic computer cost about the same as my current G4 notebook, for example.
Even though most nav hardware should be getting cheaper, the cost of maintaining and updating the map and POI data remains high. The manufacturers have to pay high fees to the companies who produce the maps.
$2000 is overpriced though. That's what's keeping it from being more popular. How overpriced it is is reflected in how little of the value of an optional nav system is retained at resale time. A car that might normally hold over 50% of its value after 3 years might only retain only 30% or less of the additional cost of the $2000 nav system. The same is true of other gadgets such as expensive rear seat DVD entertainment systems in SUVs. They are also a turn off for some used car buyers because they don't want to deal with the repairs after the warranty expires.
My prediction is that the price probably won't drop anytime soon, but the features will improve.
And I still think it is more than a repair issue - it is an issue of technology obsolescence. That is just an opinion of course.
Just to comment on this, I also agree that it is better to have an older nav than none at all. It really does not matter to me how much better the system improves. I bought my system and no matter how much better navs get it will not diminish what I have.
As another example, I still have a VCR from the late 1980s. Yes, VCRs have gotten better and cheaper. But this VCR still does what I bought it to do...record TV shows and play tapes. So even though navs will get better, my nav will still get me where I need to go with amazing accuracy and speed.
I don't agree that my nav will become obsolete in the foreseeable future. With nav updates available (which I don't even need) the system should work well for many years. As far as I know there is no new operating system on the horizon to replace the DVD.
However, the obsolete computer is still useable to the new owner!!
Regarding NAV - I think we are likely to see a lot more in the way of flexibility in routes and voice control, for example. If the laws become such that we can no longer "mess" with the NAV controls while we drive, that would mean that the only NAVs that would be legal would be those with voice control - and we are out of luck unless we want to spend a fortune upgrading our hardware.
We are already missing some satellite options, and our vehicles are only a couple of years old. I still suspect that in 8 - 10 years' time, our NAVs will look pretty ancient.
Perhaps in 10 years, you and I will still be posting to this site, and we can compare notes then!! It will be interesting to see who is closest to being correct.
Of course if the gas situation continues in the same vein as it has in the recent past, things might start resembling the way they were in the 1970s, where large cars were very much out of style. The ES300 would have been a large gas guzzler by the 1970s standards. If hybrids come into vogue, the ES300 may look pretty clunky, and the NAV would be the least of our problems! (I always pray that the ES300 will not appear like a "boat" with respect to future auto style.)
Of course, there are recordable DVDs but our NAVs are not currently based on these. We'd need a hardware upgrade to switch to a writeable DVD I am sure.
Also, I can't believe that you think the POIs in your system would be acceptable in 5-10 years.
Regarding the issue of whether you need upgrades, I guess it is easy to say that when you are not driving in out of the way places.
I hope you are correct when you say that our systems will likely stay upgradeable throughout the next 10 years. However, I would not be surprised if getting upgrades for our car's NAV becomes increasingly difficult as time goes on.
So, don't plan on new DVD map and POI updates being available for more than a few years.
The system may still "work," but you will missing lots of road updates and all the new businesses that come and go over the years.
What good is a 5 to 10 year old phone book or paper map? The same will apply to an old nav system.
What good is a 5 to 10 year old phone book or paper map? The same will apply to an old nav system."
I disagree. In my area, new roads are not built very often. So I will not be missing "lots" of updates. And even if they are, the old roads still exist. So if need to go somewhere 10 years from now my nav will still be able to get me there.
Further, the 10 year-old phone book analogy is not a good one. If a new restaurant opens you're right, it will not be in an old phone book. But if a new restaurant opens, all I need to do is put the address in my nav and I'm on my way. Sure, the restaurant won't be in the database. But as long as I have the address I can get there. I for one do not use the nav to "pick" a restaurant for me...I know which restaurant I want to go to and almost always plug the address into the nav.
Still I don't undertsand why they would make the new Nav DVD with new maps, addresses, and POI not usable for older Nav unit. People are not going to buy a new car just because the older car's POI on Nav is outdated, but they may spend $200 to get it updated. Good business for 'parts' sales!
All,
I found a 1997 Lexus ES300 for sale for only $7500. It has 120k miles and is loaded. It also appears in really good shape (clean, shiny). The issue is why the owner is so ready to offer it up for $7500? Seems rather low. He didn't mention any damage, but that doesn't mean much.
If anyone has unlimited Carfax access, could you run the VIN# ?
VIN# JT8BF22G7V0030888
Also, how were these years for the ES300? Any problems/issues?
Thanks all!
That seams a bit premature. They should last well over 100K miles on a Lexus.
It's kind of strange that both went out at the same time. That is rare.
You may want a second opinion as to whether or not it is the bearings on both sides.
I've had the problem on other cars. One bearing on my last car went out at about 50K miles.