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Lexus ES 300/ES 330
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Comments
Toyota has a good track record. Why do you assume it will have a bad transmission again??? Actually it's not even that the transmission is bad in the current car, it's the software that is bad.
Toyota/Lexus has a very good track record with 1st year production cars, in fact, they probably have the best record. I'm sure they will address the transmission problem with the next generation ES.
Case in point. The '02ES experienced issues with brake rotors, suspension problems, and of course the ongoing transmissions problems. Most of these have been corrected in the later models, with the exception of the transmission problems, which are the ongoing topic of this website. Even though the '02 ES was initially thought to be far superior to the '97-'01ES in size, style, comfort, interior quality and safety, I can speak from first hand knowledge that the previous 4sp transmission operated far more smoothly than does the current 5sp tranny in the '02-'05 models.
In my opinion, it defies logic to assume that a new '07ES would have all of the "bugs" worked out of the '02-'05ES models without introducing a few "new bugs" that are yet to be defined.
Totally agree with you about the pre-2002 ES-series being better cars. Have recently driven numerous '04 and '05 ES330s and the driveability and tranny shifting issues are a deal-breaker for me. It seems like my wife's '98 ES300 is the one with the advanced technology!
Martin
Did I say somewhere the '07 ES would have "all the bugs worked out" somewhere? If I did say that......well I didn't say that.
I merely said Toyota/Lexus has a good track record with 1st year products. No where did I say it would be "problem free". Heck, cars aren't problem free in year 5!
#1 Toyota/Lexus does have a good track record with 1st year products - esp. when compared to US brands. I've owned 2, one was fine, the other had power train problems.
#2 "Cars aren't problem free in year 5".
What is surprising (and irritating) is that a company with a good reputation for quality, such as Lexus, can't produce a transmission for the ES (after 5 yrs of trying), that won't be such a source of discontentment for so many owners.
However, I am less confident than you that Lexus will "address the transmission problem in the next generation ES" to my satisfaction. They have had 5 years to address it so far, and each time I get anew loaner ES, I'm convinced that they have been unsuccessful.
My conclusion is that the ES is not as far along the "passionate pursuit of perfection" as I would expect for the money .
If the 2007 has better tranmission that certainly doesn't mean it won't have new problems in the all new design of the rest of the vehicle.
It is silly to run blindly from the 2005 tranny problem into a completely new unknown design in search of better reliability.
With all due respect that is pure speculation at this point. While no car is 100% perfect, to make a blanket statement like that is somewhat uncalled for. If the new Lexus ES is based on the 05 Avalon platform at least in terms of the powertrain I think it will be a great car. It certainly won't be a competitor against BMW, Infiniti, or Lexus's own IS 350 but it never was meant to be. The new Avalon has been out for more than 3 months now and all the real owners (who are posting at Edmunds) are very happy with the car. I realize the current ES 330 has been a disappointment for some folks but that certainly doesn't mean the upcoming ES will be a problematic car.
It is very "likely" that there will be new problems because it is an all new design. The only speculation is whether the problems will be few or many or whether they will be minor or serious or whether they will be a better or worse trade-off than the transmission issue of the current design.
It is less "likely" that the initial 2007 models will have fewer problems than the out going 2006 models.
It is a risk. The point is that it is a new model and it is not logical to not buy a 2006 and wait for the 2007s for the sole reason of expecting the 2007s to surely have fewer problems than a 2006.
The 2007 models will probably not have any more problems than other previous new Lexus ES models had in their first year, but any problems the new model might have could be just as annoying as the tranny issue (even assuming that will be solved and only solved on the new model).
I think these discussions should serve as a wake up call to Lexus/Toyota. Clearly, prospective buyers who read these posts are going to be cautious before buying a new ES. Current owners who post here are writing to voice their concern about future flaws, defects, transmission problems, etc. in upcoming Lexus ES models, based on their current bad experiences. I for one, have no intentions of buying another Lexus ES.
What happened to the old, reliable Lexus quality (seen in '07-'01ES and '01-'03 RX)??
I believe Lexus is starting down the path of GM, Ford and Chrysler with less vigorous quality controls and "planned obsolescence" . :confuse:
Well...aren't you speculating that the 2007 will bring a whole host of new problems??? If you think Toyota doesn't make well engineered cars, go buy another brand. There are plenty of carmakers to choose from.
"It is very "likely" that there will be new problems because it is an all new design."
It is not "very likely" that there will be new problems with the 2007, it is a definate. All new cars have teething problems. Again though, Toyota/Lexus has a better track record than any other car company. And if you want a car with absolutely no problems in year 1 or even later, I got news for you, it doesn't exist.
And don't forget, the current ES's transmission isn't what is faulty. It is the software that is faulty!
I do know from personal experience that Lexus' attempts to improve performance with "software improvements" and "re-setting the original software" has not been successful.
I don't exonerate Lexus, merely because the transmission problem may be due to faulty software.
Software, hardware or silverware, the problem is with Lexus!!
We cannot find this April '05 update of the TSB listed on any of the usual sources (NHTSA, Alldata). One of the posters took a printout to his dealership and was told it was a fake. Another person was told that his '05 model vehicle already had the most recent update performed. I am thinking that maybe this is too new to have reached the dealerships. Have you had any luck getting the work performed? Can you share where you obtained the TSB?
I don't exonerate Lexus either. Whatever the problem is, it is still a problem. And it is Toyota/Lexus' problem, and they need to fix it.
But this problem wouldn't stop me from buying a Toyota/Lexus product, since overall they still make the best cars and Lexus' cars are the best in terms of quality/reliability. But me myself, I wouldn't buy a 07 ES nor would I buy any other first year car. I'm one to wait until at least the 2nd model year and more like the 3rd model year. But plenty of people buy 1st year Lexus products and very few have major problems.
We cannot find this April '05 update of the TSB listed on any of the usual sources (NHTSA, Alldata). One of the posters took a printout to his dealership and was told it was a fake. Another person was told that his '05 model vehicle already had the most recent update performed. I am thinking that maybe this is too new to have reached the dealerships. Have you had any luck getting the work performed? Can you share where you obtained the TSB?
1. I found the TSB in question in another Lexus forum. Can't post a link, because it's against this board policy, but I guess you can figure it from these two words: club lexus.
2. I have no idea how genuine this TSB is, but I think it's unlikely someone would invest their time to fabricate something like this.
3. I have not yet had a chance to run it by my dealership, but I will pay them a visit this Saturday. Will report here after that.
As for what people are told at the local dealership, it depends on who you talk to. It is highly doubtful many of the service advisors actually keep up with all the new TSBs for every model and year Lexus, let alone revisions of original TSBs. Most of the time, it has to be brought to their attention before they know about it. This TSB revision is quite new after all. But there has already been a news report this month in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette about this latest computer upgrade covering the 2002 to 2005 model years. The original TSB didn't include the 2004-2005 model years.
So I think it only makes sense that this is a new update. But with the Lexus shop foreman you have contact with, you probably have a better source for this information than most of us here.
Thanks for clearing that up so quickly!
So, it looks like the TSB revision for the ES300/330 is likely the real thing.
It also appears that the April Pittsburgh Post Gazette article, which implies that Toyota/Lexus has a software upgrade for all the the 5-speed automatic transmissions, is a little misleading.
I am looking forward to hearing from the ES300/330 owners to see if this does the trick! I know with the previous upgrades that initially the drivers felt like it fixed the problem, but the old hesitating ways returned. If you read through the Transmission Problems in ES300? forum at the time of the release of the first TSB, there are some owners who initially reported positive results but later changed their tune when hesitation returned. I think it took several months and several 1000's of miles of driving before the condition returned, so if initial results are positive, that will be good, but realistically, it may take some time to determine if it is The Fix.
My dad used to say "Buy a car when you do NOT need one..." And he was 100% correct. If you wait until your current car blows an engine or tranny you'll regret not getting out of it earlier. That being said, I'm not sure 110K miles means the end is near - my Dodge Intrepid has 148,000 miles on it and I'm expecting the engine to easily top 250,000 or even 300,000 miles. I expect around 200,000 miles out of the tranny before the gears start to wear out.
Chasing heat (the latest and greatest) isn't very productive. You may wait for a 2007 and then go to the auto show in 2006 and see a 2008 you'd like even more....then what? You can't kiss ALL of the girls!! If you like the current ES330 then buy it (be aware of the critisisms of this car on this board).
The point is I believe you're dealing from a position of strength. You don't need to buy today, but if you feel the end of your current ride is near, all you need to do is make a decision sooner rather than later.
Good Luck & Have FUN!
About your current ride - Just keep the oil (3000-4000 miles) and tranny fluid (15000-20000 miles) fresh on your current car - don't give the damned thing an excuse to blow out on you!
Also keep in mind that it snows up by you for what seems like 10 months a year (kidding)...keep the anitfreeze fresh (18-24 months) and an AWD or at least a FWD is essential unless you want to start buying snow tires (snow tires...sheesh....I didn't even know they still made them).
1) According to some expert posters (lenscap and kreativ), Toyota tends to maintain a lifecycle whereby they introduce discernable body/styling changes every 5 years. For the ES3X0, it means there will be a new body style for the 2007 model.
2) Last year, posters first reported seeing the new 2005 models on dealers' lots in July/August of 2004.
3) If the pattern in 2) persists, the 2007 will appear on dealers' lots in the late summer of 2006. Also, if the pattern persists, the 2006 will appear on dealers' lots sometime this summer.
As to when they will change the engine, I don't know. Perhaps, based upon their experience with Toyota, come other poster could provide a reasonable estimate of this. If I were forced to guess, I'd guess that Toyota would wait until 2007 for the new engine.
As for engine upgrades, in my opinion, the 30 extra "horses" in the ES330 from the ES300 do not make enough of a difference that would cause me to wait an extra 2 years for a vehicle (I own a 2002 ES300) . I have driven ES330 loaners and barely note the difference, so I suspect that an ES330 owner might not find an ES350 engine worth waiting an extra year or so longer for either.
Just my two cents worth.
From what I hear the engine will definitely be the 3.5 at launch. How the tuning is done has yet to be announced, but expect power roughly the same as the Avalon that has the same engine - 280hp.
Someone posted a link to the article in the Pittsburgh paper around April 12th. I would suggest printing it out and taking it to your dealership. Good luck to all with this problem!
Furthermore, if I were to go to a local auto shop, is there a way for them to reset the service maintenance light on the dashboard?
Thanks.
FYI, Lexus seemed much more receptive to taking me serious once we were nearing the arbitration hearing date. Having said that, I must say that Lexus treated me with respect throughout most of the process. Especially, once they realized I had all of my documentation in order.
I wish you all a safe ride and efficient resolution.
BTW, what did you get to replace the Lexus?
1. In the odometer window there are three choices; ODO, Trip A & Trip B.
Select the ODO option.
2. Turn the key to the ON position but do not start the engine.
3. Press and hold the reset button in the odometer window.
That's all there is to it. The maintenance light will go out.
I have had it with this transmission problem with my ES330 and have read your note. In the back of my Lemon Law book is a form to fill out and send to manufacturer. Is this the procedure you took? And what is next after that? I really would be grateful for any advice you can give me as to how to proceed with this task. In case you aren't watching this forum any more, I'll try to send same message to your e-mail if possible. Thanks,
joko
I believe the word is VSC (vehicle stability control). It is a stand alone option that also includes traction control and brake assist.
Spyderred.
First of all, what are you trying to do???
The Fender, hood, headlights, are interchangeable. But with the headlights, remember they changed slightly for 1995 from the 1992 to 1994 headlights, so change both. The dash is different as a 1992 model did not have dual airbags. Radio will be compatible although 1995's was slightly different.