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Lexus ES 300/ES 330
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Comments
Japanese cars in general, being boring, having
no style or character. I wanna respond.
I hope those of you who truly are owners of
Lexus cars are not persuaded to believe that
you're owning boring or unstylish cars. There
is nothing wrong with our taste in styles. All
cars have their own character. A Lexus car's
character is being all it can be to please its
owner. doing almost everything well. A BMW's
character is "fun driving" but not reliable enough. Lexus cars are German cars biggest
threat with owner satisfaction. so MB,BMW
promoters, enthusiasts need to propagate that
Lexus cars are boring, have no character.
After all, MB, BMW have to be better than the
competition at something if not at producing
reliable cars, offering value.
Regarding unigueness, look at BMW's 3,5,7, M coupe series. They all have the same basic
designes except for size and luxury. Check out
Audi's A4,A6,A8. they all look the same.
At least each Lexus model has its own unique
design. Even Acura is trying to do what the
German makes are doing which is to have a
"signature design". Acura cars tend to look alike
these days, even the MDX SUV. So Lexus is on the
right track of being innovative and a leader.
Others need to catch up. And they have been
scrambling to catch up. look at how MB,BMW have
been offering better value, quality since the
LS400,ES300 selling success of the early 90s.
I just hope Lexus will not consider offering
a "signature design" for all their cars. if so,
then Lexus cars would really be boring.
for now, they're on a roll.
I know some of you are offended. sorry! just
stating my honest opinion. for those who are
actually MB,BMW enthusiasts disguised as Lexus
enthusiasts, please state your claims that
Lexus cars are boring at the BMW discussion
board and you wouldn't have a response like this.
Thank you!
And, as was said a few posts ago, I don't think the ES is bad, or ugly, and I do own one. This forum helped me make up my mind and negotiate the deal back in July/August.
ok again sorry if I offended anyone.
I was kinda disappointed with the new SC design
but it is nice looking. I was expecting so much
more from Lexus since the last SC was such an
awsome design that left a major mark in the
automotive world--future hall of famer for cars.
I hope the new ES will not look like that.
Lexus can do better. but the folding hard-top is
impressive. I think they should try to speed it
up though. Let's see if other manufacturers will
do the same with their future models.
A bit off-topic but, have you guys seen the whole new crop of convertables? The Toyota MR2, Lexus SC, Honda, the redesigned Thunderbird ... There are some really great cars coming out these days. Maybe I'll pry my wife's hands from her 84-SL and get her a 21st century car.
btw: we test drove an SLK last year. The retractable hard-top is "way-cool". All the convienence and quiet of a sedan and yet a convertable!
After all, it comes down to "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Each individual's taste is different. One may prefer uniqueness (that's why you see car painted with combination of lime green and purple) while other may prefer conservative looking cars, so long as the look of the car pleases their eyes. For me, the 01 ES with clear rearlights lenses is attractive and the wood steering wheel makes it look very classy. That's why I bought the car. Oops, not really. Comfort is what make me decide on the Lexus vs. the TL.
No problem. My wife actualy loves her ES because she says it "feminine" looking. I actually think the ES is attractive front and back. My wife thinks the E320 and the TL looks too much of a "masculine" vehicle.
liev,
Wow, looks like you can make a good state trooper, looking for stolen cars. My wife has no clues about what cars are what. She always says "as long as I can start it and it runs, who cares?" She once came home and told me a John Deere vehicle almost ran her of the road. i said what are you talking about, John Deere don't make cars. It turned out to be a Chevy Impala which has the logo of a deer. haha
http://www.geocities.com/busybeetoys/scoop/edn22.htm
and
http://www.j-cars.net/newcar_oct00.htm
Looks like you may have hit the jackpot on the first 2002 ES300 pictures.
BUT....if those pictures of the front end are accurate, I sure as hell am glad I have a 2000-2001 model, not the upcoming one.
Whew. Am glad I dodged a bullet in styling degradation by buying the current model.!!!!
Al F.
The new ES should follow other recent Lexus new cars and have the pullout door handles (this car does not have them) and either no lower cladding or cladding that is body color (this car is two-tone).
I don't buy this picture for one minute.
It doesn't look right. If it is and Lexus
maintains the same 3.0L 210hp, I would be
very disappointed in Lexus.
furthermore, I believe I saw an ES pic on the
jp site that was just like that(same background
and front end shot) but it was the current
ES design.
so a strong possibility is that it's just a
touch up. nice try!
thanks Poomjai for sharing it. how did you find
it?
As far as the accuracy of the pictures, Scoop is hit-and-miss, but I remember with the LS 430, they were way off, so I don't know. That other site had the picture though, so it could be accurate.
The specs will not be accurate, because that is a Japanese site, so the specs will only apply for Japanese models. I would be really surprised if the don't put a new V6 in there.
In relation to Scoop's accuracy, check the lexus on this page out:
http://www.geocities.com/busybeetoys/scoop/edn26.htm
I doubt it
I'm shopping for an ES 300 in the Maryland region. Any ideas on the prices paid for it ?
Well, but scrongo, I didn't pay attention about taillights that far back, especially, luxury cars. I have been looking at taillights 2,3 years ago. so I only can name new car models.
turbotc,
I should have said that I can name newer models of cars by looking at taillights. I'm not qualify for being a state trooper yet, but may be in few years......
That was funny, but at least your wife knew there is a company call John Deer.
I've been in the market for over a year looking for a new/ewer car. So far I like the Lexus ES300 because of its reliability. While the handling is okay but it doesn't really excite me like a BMW does (which I've owned but no longer want the hassles that come with it). I test drove a '01 GS300. It was nice but don't know if I would spend the extra $10K.
Has anyone test drove the GS300? I would appreciate any comments. Thanks in advance.
While the Coach is nice for $300 less you can get the Nakamichi package which offers more practical accessories and deletes the wood trimmed wheel. You might have to look for a used one with that or other packages instead.
Don't know where you live but remember the GS is rear wheel drive as opposed to ES FWD. As a Minnesota boy that rules it out for me. It's definitely tighter and better handling than the ES but surprisingly offers less room especially in the rear. Aesthetics are up to you of course. Personally even if I lived in RWD country I'd still take the ES and the extra cash but both would be far more reliable and offer better resale value than a comparable BMW, as well as being smoother and quieter over time.
Ken
rugmankc@siscom.net
Regarding the hassles with my BMW:
I've owned a 1973 2002 (bought used in 1975-1976 at the time swore I would never buy another BMW)and a 1980 320i(new) which I've kept for 14 years. As a matter of fact I've owned mostly European cars until I bought a '93 Honda (new). When I first got my 320i the speedometer was replaced at 700 miles, then at about 20k the master cylinder went out. Later it was the water pump at 30k, alternator was replaced twice before 100k, heater cable broke, electric mirror kept breaking, and always had to watch for over heating, etc. Luckily I didn't have air conditioning in it otherwise another thing could have gone wrong. Plus the BMW dealers are not the nicest bunch. I used independent mechanics. These may seem like little things but after driving a Honda (146k miles) none of those things ever happened. I sold the 320i at 130k to a friend who still drives and loves it. It was my dream car and loved driving it but now I just am not willing to deal with the maintainance. Is it a sign of age?
BTW, I was at a BMW dealer this weekend and their attitudes still haven't changed.
Ken, I live in the SF bay area otherwise I would want to consider your car. Dayton is a bit far.
http://www.toyota.co.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/MarkII/index.html
Click on the various links associated with this site and you will see:
o Interior and exterior views
o Features like
-Lighted cupholders
-Cameras mounted in the bumper
-Mark Levinson stereo
-Rear power shades
-Parking radar?
- and others
I am not sure whether these are standard or optional or even if this the new ES but it is interesting to speculate.
Car companies can usually sell out new models based soley on a fresh look. Then to keep the model fresh, they will usually add the new engine on the 2nd year of a newer revision.
The MBZ E class did the same thing, bringing a new engine a year or two after introducing the oval head lamps. The following 3-4 years usually bring minor changes like color selection, added air bags, new tail lamps, change in the alloy wheels....
Pete
I've test driven the TL and the ES extensively. Personally I decided to spring for the A6 2.7T instead but I realize that's going to cost much more. Yep even the current TL is quicker so sure the S will be. It's also got more wind noise and a more harsh ride. Comfort is more important to me in my primary vehicle than 0-60s, which are good only for racing from lights anyway - a pastime I don't often indulge in.
The Acura's a nice car. It has all the features you could ask for. It's reliable and drives nicely. But between the two I'd go for the Lexus for its added refinement, fit and finish and comfort.
Your criteria could very easily be different but if sportiness and excitement are your key choices why the Acura over, say, BMW or Saab or even the Audi S4 ?
The cameras are mounted in the ends (edges) of the bumper looking left and right. This will let you see arond corners where obstructions may hamper visability. The images are shown split screen on a large central display.
Thanks for being the first to respond. I think the TL, and even the TL-S compares best with the ES300 when considering the overall package. Comparing similarly priced entry level luxury cars (i.e. your Audi A4, Saab, BMW), their is a distinct difference in size and upfront features offered at a fixed price. For what amounts to 26,500 (the going rate for an '01 TL no Nav), the TL is a better package than the ES300. Honestly, I also think the prestige of the Lexus badge on the ES300 is dwindling along with the bland styling. I have no doubt the '02 ES300 (which I've seen projected images of) will be a stunning new look to the car that, along with the LS400, put the new luxury carmaker, Lexus, on the map in '92. However, I think they are still overpriced and unless the ES300 is gunna dump the 210 hp 3.0, and opt for more displacement, or different headers and exhaust mods, that engine isn't going to compete with your 2.7T at about 40K+. The line between luxury and fully-loaded blue collar vehicles is quickly fading, and the ES300 is caught in the middle.
web site is the new ES300. I think the Mark II is drop dead gorgeous. If I could confirm that the Mark II is in fact the new ES, I'd cancel my
C320 order on the spot. Anybody know where a person could find someone with authority who might know if the Mark II is in fact the new ES?
Thanks folks.
You probably can't tell anymore 'cuz your breath is foggin' up the outside windows of the Acura showroom. Maybe you should save up some money and trade in your Corolla for a real sedan and quit pretending like you belong to a entry-level luxury car forum!
I'm gunna go run to my little sand-box now and play with my little Accord like TURBOTC says!!
You've got it all wrong my friend... While paying for your E320 and that waste of money coach edition ES, (god does it have ugly wheels), you have managed to subscribe to that great FREE internet service of NetZero. Are the bank teller checks not cutting it anymore these days? Can't find that extra $20 bucks a month for a quick and reliable ISP? Hey, do you keep gas in those cars, or do you just wash them on a regular basis. I bet they look shiny when you leave for work on the bus. Save it...
I'm at Boston University (City Hospital) bud, and guess what, I guess I can't afford much on a resident physicians salary yet. Yeah, I guess the TL will do. I'll be ripp-roaring around your "S-Class" (that you're so ready to sell both your cars for), on my way to work, and maybe save some lives for a living, while I watch you take that notorious right turn into .. what was it, Wendy's or Burger King, so you can go manage your acne-ridden min. wage employees. Hey, food folks and fun! Or what's your co's new slogan? Who cares, I know you're satisfied, cuz your slogan's the relentless pursuit of perfection! Talk to you soon. PJonkheer, amen brutha, amen.
Bye Vinny
As far as the TL-S vs. ES debate, there's no question from an engineering standpoint the Acura is great. But I think the ES is just as good (with a little less horsepower). Further, the ES kills the TL in terms of the luxury details: the Nak stereo (soon to be Mark Levenson) is far superior to the Bose, real wood vs. fake wood, and just the overall quality of interior materials. The TL interior looks and feels cheap compared to the ES. Also, the Acura dealer experience doesn't compare to Lexus. My sister has the old CL, and I know her salesman well. He's nice, but a total schlub who always has his shirt untucked and pants dragging on the floor. You'd never find that at Lexus. And, I like the other people I see at the Lexus dealer. At Acura half the people in the dealer are college kids with their Integras. Everyone may not agree with me, but I feel the ES' quality of materials, higher grade options and dealer experience are worth the extra cost over the TL.
Please chill - remember that your TOU requires respectful behavior. (There is a link on the left sidebar if anyone needs to review it.)
Thanks.
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
PeterUsers, you forget that you're in a forum for Lexus fans here. Don't put down the ES because everybody has their own preference, and you'll have to realize that this is a ES300 conference for Lexus owners. They must love their ES to participate in this conference. Of course, people get offended when you talk so negative about their ES. Don't you feel the same way, now the way Turbotc and other talk about the TL.
I could not agree with Dmallinder and Turbotc more that the ES is a more refined car over the TL and offer much more elegance and comfort, but I also do agree with you that it is much less reponsive than the TL . I had the same opinion like you about the TL before I went test drive either cars. I heard a lot of compliments about the TL for the value it offers and decided it would be the one I was going to get..... Until I went test driving a Lexus just for my brother's sake. He suggested it me just to go testing driving one, he said there is nothign to lose and the ES seems to offer more elegance for a woman than the TL, further, LEXUS has more prestige than the Acura. He said I have nothign to lose but at least I'll have know the difference between the two cars. I thought he was annoying and the only way to get rid of that annoyance is to test drive the ES. Guess what, after test driving the ES, I know that there is nothign else to think about. This is it! And, I ended up paying 5K more for the ES than what I would have to pay for the TL. And, there is no HID for the ES either.
See, people's taste are different. Don't try to convince people that theirs is bad and yours is good. Since you already own an ES and now own a TL and think the TL is better, you can get in this ES conference and talk about what makes you think the TL is better than the ES to give people some insights but not to say that what they own is bad.
I don't think Turbotc calling you little boy with bad intention. He might have been joking in the first place. How long have you been following these posts? I found this form interesting and feel like people I have been communicating to are friends who give me advices that I need when I had problems with my ES and I feel good to give advice so others can benefit from my experience too with the ES, though we don't really know each other more than just their fake or user names. Perhaps, you take things so personally and lose your temper too quick.
Turbotc,
Sometimes you should be careful about your language. A lot of times, I wrote then revised my posts because I think a certain language could offend people; especially, English is my second language. Remember people only see words on the screen, they don't see your face or hear your tone, so there might be misunderstandings based on the language that you use.