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Mercedes-Benz S-Class

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  • And it has everything to do with this topic ;)

    JD Powers also did a study measuring owners' satisfaction with dealer service during the warranty period:

    http://www.jdpa.com/studies/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=572&CatID=1

    And wouldn't you know it, MB ranks near the bottom of the luxury class once again! Lexus #1, Cadillac #4, Infiniti #5, Jaguar #6, Lincoln #7 ... Mercedes Benz #17.

    Overall service (warranty and non-warranty) was also studied:

    http://www.jdpa.com/studies/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=527&CatID=1

    And the results came out similarly, with Lexus #1, Cadillac #3, Infiniti #4, Lincoln #8, Jaguar #12, and Mercedes Benz bringing up the rear of the luxury class at #13.

    JD Powers didn't measure snob appeal, but I'm sure that is one area where MB probably scores quite well. You may not have the best service, the most reliable cars, or cars which are the most fun to drive, but you do have that all-important snob appeal. As if a man is measured by the car he drives....

    -Mark
  • Where's merc1 when you need him? I expect he will liven the quality vs. snob-appeal debate somewhat. If only he would come out of hiding...
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Oh please your just salty becuase you tried to say that Cadillac makes a better car than Mercedes and they clearly don't. For those of you that don't know how this got started let me catch you up.

    Markhampton posted that Mercedes has 3 models on the CR "avoid" list. The ML, CLK and S-Class. Now for all this effort trying smear Mercedes Benz he couldn't come up with squat. The fact is that EVERY Cadillac sedan, Catera, Seville, and Deville have been on the list in various years since 1995. The S-Class had one year 2000 in which CR said to avoid. The CLK had 2 years, 2000/2001 and the ML since 1998. Everyone knows the ML was not and still doesn't meet Mercedes standards so thats no surprise. Yet the S-Class only had it's first year on the list, and seeing as how the 2001 model didn't make the "avoid" list indicates that Mercedes corrected the problems the car had up it's launch. Cadillac can't get the piece of junk Seville right in over 6 years of trying! On top of that the C-Class, SL, CL and E-Class haven't been on the "avoid" list. Period.

    Next up is the fact you can't seem to understand that a many don't give a rats behind about CR or JD powers because if they did European cars as a whole wouldn't sell at all here. For a slightly more reliable Cadillac a many have chosen to drive a better performing, better designed, and just all around more satisfying car than a boss-hogg Cadillac. Does Lexus make a good car yes, but I don't see how that help Cadillac, you're so desperate to prove a point you're holding up the brand that has kicked Cadillac's teeth down it's throat since 1990. In the same manner in which Toyota has done GM in general. A Deville and a Q45 would get trounced in a comparo with a S-Class, the Q45 for all it's greatness (per you) can't be given away by Infiniti dealers. Yeah it must be a great car.

    All you have is a bunch of "predictions" which don't mean squat, because like I've said so many times before..you simply don't know what MB, Cadilac or any other carmaker does under the skin of the car from one model year to the next in order to improve reliability. We do know however that Cadillac hasn't done crap to the Seville because it's a repeat winner on the "Avoid" list year after year. Yet your only defense to this is "they'll be out of production soon", that is the biggest pile of BS I've yet heard from a GM fan. Troll: person who enters a topic for no other reason than to start a mess...that would be you in here now.

    Lastly if you find time to pull your head out of surveys, why don't you go to any used car lot and see for yourself how well a Mercedes' paint, body, and interior hold up over time Compared to a Cadillac on average. Especially if you look a early to mid 90's model MB and Cadillac cars. Does your precious JD/CR bible go back that far to measure true long-term durability? Probably not. For all this superior reliability you speak of Cadillac still can't get their resale value out of the 99 cents bin. According to you they make a better car than Cadillac so why doesn't the real world of resale values bare this out?

    Are you really trying to say that the CTS has better quality than Mercedes? Yeah right, that's why early CTS' blew their engines and Lutz won't even sell the car in Europe until something can be done about the sorry RubberMaid interior of the current car.

    baron87,

    You're a dreamer who has never even driven a car. So guess what you're "opinion" is worth.

    M
  • baron87baron87 Posts: 93
    <<You're a dreamer who has never even driven a car. So guess what you're "opinion" is worth.>>

    What a concept: refute fact with fiction! First of all, my statements have all been based on truth, which apparently you are too short-sighted to see. Secondly, if there were no dreamers in our world the automobile wouldn't exist. I'm truly sorry, merc, if my not submitting to the monotony of convention upsets you so much to make you insecure.

    And what is my opinion worth? I'm guessing 500 USD? 600? Your "opinion" would has a lesser value, though, since it is not unique, and mainly consists of text taken from 10-year old Mercedes brochures.

    It strikes me as interesting when markhampton provides us with so many unbiased FACTS that you still refute them. Cadillac scores ahead of Mercedes in every JD Power study. Why do you still deny it? You cannot refute fact with fiction...unless in your extreme view-point what is fact to the rest of the world suddenly becomes fiction, and ficton becomes fact. Maybe...
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    When you're had to drive any of the cars being discussed here you let me know. All you can do it READ about cars and you do most of that from Cadillac. What a concept: To young to drive and to young to know any better. When are you going to be able to assess things for yourself and not rely upon other's and their books? Probably in another 2-3 years, then you'll get to drive the family Cadillac.

    M
  • Merc, the facts are on my side. I've documented everything for you time and time again. I'm led to believe that you have a reading comprehension problem. Your unwarranted trolling is what landed us here, so don't blame this on me.

    What do you say we copy this thread to all of the MB boards? Potential owners should know about MB's abysmal reliability and service ratings.

    "Yet the S-Class only had it's first year on the list, and seeing as how the 2001 model didn't make the "avoid" list indicates that Mercedes corrected the problems"

    Who's speculating now?

    Fact: For 2002, CR gave the S-Class a rating of 2 out of 5 (CR, April 2002, 57).

    Fact: The S-Class is ranked below the Deville in reliability (CR, April 2002, 27).

    Fact: You will not find an Escalade or an Eldorado anywhere on CR's "used cars to avoid" list. The Catera was not on the list after 1999. That leaves the Seville which, like the S-Class, ranks lower than the Deville in reliability. Evidently you're hanging your hat on a car that will be out of production by the end of the year. Sad.

    "many don't give a rats behind about CR or JD powers because if they did European cars as a whole wouldn't sell at all here"

    At least you got one thing right. You once asked if I thought consumers were stupid. It appears we agree on this at least. Consumers must be stupid if they are willing to pay that much for a car with abysmal reliability and abysmal service.

    "A Deville and a Q45 would get trounced in a comparo with a S-Class"

    Giving us a prediction, are you?

    "All you have is a bunch of "predictions" which don't mean squat"

    Which is far more than you have given us. Saying one car trounces another means little without some reference to back it up. Where are your references Merc? All you have given us thus far is your opinion. When you actually own and drive one of these cars on a daily basis, your opinion might be worth something. Until then, your opinion isn't worth "squat."

    Too bad Car and Driver didn't have an MB in its February 2002 comparo to go up against the CTS. If the CTS is just slightly below the 5-series in the handling department, then MB has a lot of catching up to do. And then there's the 400hp CTSi. That will be one sweet comparo, my friend.

    "why don't you go to any used car lot and see for yourself how well a Mercedes' paint, body, and interior hold up over time Compared to a Cadillac"

    Bingo. You're living the dream of the past and ignoring the problems of the present. Without a doubt, MB built some good cars in the past. Newer MB's, however, have gained a reputation for being "de-contented" or "cheapened" -- take the adjective of your choice. If you're in the market for a new car you can do better than a Mercedes.

    You're clearly passionate about MB, and that's fine. If you're in the market for an 80s vintage MB, there are good ones to be found. Likewise, I would avoid 80s vintage Cadillacs. I don't buy used MBs or Cadillacs, however, so that's not a consideration for me.
  • benznutbenznut Posts: 104
    Merc1 drives the best car in the world (S600 if am not mistaken) and that is why is intolerant to people who take the word of some surveys that probably have a bias for foreign cars, especially Mercedes. Or at least, if you want to do that, that is taking another's word when you cannot drive yurself, read AutoCar, a Brittish magazine who proclaimes S600 as undeniably the best car in the world, refusing even their own Bentley Arnage, together with LS430, and BMW 745.
  • According to Merc1's profile, he drives a 1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder, and dreams about a SL500. I know nothing about him other than what he tells us himself.

    If I had $120k I was willing to spend on a car, I certainly wouldn't throw it away on an S600. For my money, two LS430s would make far more sense.

    I know nothing about Autocar but if it's anything like the auto rags here in the U.S., then they likely place a premium on a car's "fun-to-drive" factor rather than how easy it is to live with on a day-to-day basis. I'm sure the S600 is a fine toy, but I use my car for daily transportation and prefer not to drive dealer loaners or rentals while my hypothetical toy is in the shop.
  • bobbyknightbobbyknight Posts: 121
    Did you ever think that S-Class owners are a little more pickey about their cars? Maybe every little thing bothers them while DeVille owners A) are used to their car rattling or B)Too old to hear the rattles?

    I think it is kind of pathetic that obvious GM fanatics (baron87 included) come on other boards just to justify their purchase (or their parents purchase)?
  • I give you surveys by reputable research organizations, and you give me your home-grown theories on owner personality profiles. No offense, but unless you have a PHD in sociology, I'm more inclined to believe CR and JD Powers.

    Well, now, call it what you will but we all know why I'm here. An eye for an eye, and a troll for a troll. I've had it with Merc1's tiresome rants in the Cadillac forums. Two can play at that game. ;)
  • It must be that 'ol reading comprehension malady certain people suffer from ...

    Merc1: "Again I ask if Cadillac is so good why can't they pull their resale out the toilet?"

    And again, I say consumers are idiots. The generation who bought pet rocks is the same generation who has grown up to buy MBs. If sales are the measure of a car's reliability and quality, then by your logic, the Ford Taurus is a reliable high-quality car, right? Of course not.

    Sales success is as much a function of marketing and perception as it is a reflection of reliability, quality and performance. If marketing did not create sales, then manufactures wouldn't spend billions on it. Even you should be able to see that.

    Have you followed the Pentium 4 vs. AMD Athlon debate? Most people who only know what they have heard in commercials might think a 1.5 GHz P4 is faster than a 1.3 GHz Athlon, but nothing could be further from the truth. That's what is known as effective marketing. Intel may not make the best products, but they are without a doubt the best marketers of their products. Likewise with MB. Both MB and Intel seem to think they can live on their reputations forever. We shall see.

    CR says MB's reliability is in the toilet. JD Powers says MB's reliability is in the toilet. I have asked you time and again to point me to a reputable source indicating otherwise, and all you can say is that "MB still sells a lot of cars." To presume that the effect of sales is driven by the cause of quality is little more than a logical fallacy. It does nothing in the least to further your argument. For example, Chrysler still sells a boat load of minivans, but it would be foolish to assume that this is an indication of how reliable or well-built their minivans are.

  • Well then you must be among them them cause you have a deflating value Cadillac. If you think Cadillac's hold up so much better then why don't you go to a used car lot than sells luxury cars and see for yourself why nobody wants to pay anything for a Cadillac. Just because Cadillac's resale is so poor isn't Mercedes' fault. Cadillac is still paying for the junk they've built of the last 20 years. Period. Until 1998 Cadillac had not car that was worth mentioning. Period.

    Where did I say that sales=reliability? Where oh where? The DeVille is a old folks car first and foremost and the S500 will blow it off the road. If the DeVille isn't more exciting than the S-Class then why do you keep pointing to the Deville when you speak of the S-Class. The S-Class has the car beat in so many area's it's pathetic to even compare to two. No comment on the MT comparo right? Thought not, since you live by books and such.

    I said Mercedes sells more cars because the feeble merits that Cadillac may haven't aren't enough anymore. Lexus, BMW and Mercedes are all knee deep in Cadillac's.... And you'd better watch out for Acura. I didn't not point out sales to illustrate that MB's were the highest quality cars on the market.

    Come again.

    M

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    """"Fact: For 2002, CR gave the S-Class a rating of 2 out of 5 (CR, April 2002, 57).

    Fact: The S-Class is ranked below the Deville in reliability (CR, April 2002, 27).

    Fact: You will not find an Escalade or an Eldorado anywhere on CR's "used cars to avoid" list. The Catera was not on the list after 1999. That leaves the Seville which, like the S-Class, ranks lower than the Deville in reliability. Evidently you're hanging your hat on a car that will be out of production by the end of the year. Sad.""""

    Where are the CL, SL, E, and C Class on the list? The Seville isn't going out production by the end of the year. What are you on? So I guess the fact that Cadillac hasn't been able to make the Seville reliable in over 5 years means that it's excused because it's due to be replaced soon. That is the biggest pile or BullS ever. So what are the people who want a Seville NOW supposed to do? Are you telling me that the all new Seville is due for 2003? Duh it isn't.

    The Escalade is a Chevy truck, and the Eldorado is an antique. Yeah that's real impressive the Chevy (mass produced and kinks worked out by testing it on Chevy customers first) and the 10 year old Eldorado that should have at least be trouble free NOW after all these years of producing them.

    "A Deville and a Q45 would get trounced in a comparo with a S-Class"

    Yep that's what I said. Don't you read. MT already did this comparo, minus the Q45 and guess who won and who got a mutthole kicked in their hood.

    You talk about me giving predictions, but yet you've already come to the conclusion that the CTS would have beat the C-Class in C&D last comparo, yet you don't want to acknowledge MT's comparo when the DTS got creamed. Pure hypocritical nonsense from you as always.

    ""You're living the dream of the past and ignoring the problems of the present. Without a doubt,
    MB built some good cars in the past. Newer MB's, however, have gained a reputation for being
    "de-contented" or "cheapened" -- take the adjective of your choice. If you're in the market for a new car you can do better than a Mercedes.""

    You almost got it right. They've been de-contented from previous cars, but the previous cars were over the top to begin with. You must have gone to that used car lot in between post. You still want to sit here and give an uninformed opinion, seeing as though you have no experience with Mercedes cars. Yes you give surveys, but that's all you have to give, yet I tell you I've been in MB cars for more than just a drive around the block and yet you discredit that, so why would anyone care about your continious posting of the same mess over and over again.

    All you have is your surveys.

    benznut,

    I wish! You got me mixed up with V12power, he has a S600 and a 750iL.

    M
  • After losing the quality debate, you moved on to the "sales = superiority" argument. That was your comeback when you finally relented on MBs abysmal record of reliability and service. When presented with the facts, you moved on to a new falacy.

    I have admitted that Cadillac's resale value is not as good as MB's, although the difference isn't dramatic as you might think. Of course, it's unlikely that you have any personal experience in this arena, so it comes as no surprise that you know little about these cars' relative resale values.

    What matters in the end is what the car is worth when you sell it, as a percentage of it's purchase price. When you take Cadillac's discounting into account, the two are not far apart. Certainly not far enough apart to justify spending an extra $30k on the less reliable S-Class. When I was looking for a car in this class, I ran the numbers on the S-Class. Even when taking resale value into account, the S-Class was considerably more expensive. I just couldn't justify it.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Why are you posting different responses in different forums? Are you trying to confuse anyone that would figure out the BS you're peddling here? You talk about how dumb consumers are for ignoring things like CR rating the Seville as an "avoid" car year after year, and the fact that Cadillac resale is pitiful at best, yet you bought into it. Says a lot.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Oh please you keep posting the same mess over and over. All you have is your surveys and if you think every S-Class and every Mercedes dealer is so awful you're even more clueless than you sound. The fact remains that the S-Class is better car overall than a DeVille, and yes they have been compared. Yet you still make no mention of it.

    Now you turn around and try to down play Cadillac's terrible resale with "they're being discounted". Thank you proves my point. They have to be discounted to move in the first place. Thats a sign of a true qualtiy car in a wide-open market such as the current one. Only bottom feeder cars are being heavily discounted. Acura's RL comes to mind, yet let you tell it Cadillac is so much better.

    M
  • You presume too much, fool.

    I drove the SLK for a week. Not impressed. I drove the current incarnation of the E-class for a day. Very unimpressed. What's up with that stupid E-Class transmission anyway? When I press the gas pedal down, I want it to downshift. GM knows how to make a transmission that behaves properly. I guess that's why BMW is using GM transmissions now.

    I didn't drive an S-Class. Why pay more for a car that is proven to be less dependable?

    My father owned an MB and will never buy another one. I don't recall the model, but I do remember him complaining about it needing a valve job and a new automatic transmission before it hit 70k miles.

    These were my MB experiences. What is the extent of your Cadillac experience?
  • And it isn't worth squat since you don't own either of these cars.
  • No, I don't read MT. I read C&D and R&T occasionally, however. Do you read MT between cereal boxes?

    As I have said, Mr. Incomprehendo, magazines place more importance on track performance than day-to-day driveability and dependability. If you can keep that S-Class running long enough, I'm sure it will perform well on the track for the magazine writers. That has little to do with it's suitability for every day driving.

    I personally don't care much about track performance, but if that's what you want then you should check out the CTS. Especially when it's fitted with a 400hp aluminum block V8. Since you're interested in predictions, I'll give you one: The CTSi will eat a similar class MB alive on the track.

    Enough of this for tonight. I'll read and respond to the remainder of your drivel tomorrow.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Goes to show who the "fool" is. YOU HAVEN'T EVEN DRIVEN AN S-CLASS!!! So be quiet. The SLK has nothing to do with this discussion. I'm really starting to enjoy this. My Cadillac experience you ask. There are two STSs and one DeVille in my family (actual relatives). The Sevilles are 1998 and 1999 models. One has been very reliable and the other (1998) has been junk. The 1999 DeVille has also been typical GM mess. Unlike you I can't tell you about the good points too. All three have nice interiors and good power for enthusiastic driving. The current Seville is easily one of the best looking cars on the road and is virtually timeless in that respect. The problem with the Seville is all that power to the front wheels, which is really unsettling if accelerating on a less then glass smooth surface. There is also a 1997 E420 (relative) , 2000 S500 (friend of a friend), 2000 C230K (neighbor), 1993 600SEL (distant relative) 1996 Lexus SC300 (best friend), 2002 BMW X5 4.6is (ex-friend (whole 'nother story), 2000 Lexus RX300 (relative), 1998 BMW 540iA (neighbor), 2001 GS430 (friend) and a 1994 Q45 (relative) around. The ones I listed are all people who's cars I have no trouble borrowing, a many I have driven out of town with, spending hours upon hours behind the wheel. Out of all of these only the 1998 540i and the two of the Cadillacs have been troublesome. The 2000 S500 had a bad gauge cluster and CD changer unit that took 2 attempts to fix, the 1997 E420, and 1993 600SEL have been flawless. The C230K has been about average. Admitedly the most reliable have been the Lexuses. The Q45 is reliable, but man does it cost to have work done on it.

    All in all your week in a SLK and test drive of an E-Class pales in comparison to my experiences. Period. Now back to your surveys.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    If you'd bother to read you'd know that MT didn't base their decisions soley on "track time". Now you're predicting again, cause you have nothing to base anything on in the NOW.

    "". If you can keep that S-Class running long enough, I'm sure
    it will perform well on the track for the magazine writers. That has little to do with it's suitability for every day driving.""

    Now your're telling me that the S-Class won the comparo because it's a track star? Oh gawd man get a grip on reality. The S-Class beat the pants off the DeVille in the same things most Cadillac owners look for in their precious Deville.

    You mean to tell me you've gathered all your intelligence based on one issue of CR and a JD powers survey. Looks that way to me. You don't even read the magazines, and here I though you were at least a half-informed Cadillacer. Turns out you'll likely keep posting the same CR and JD links.

    M
  • v12powerv12power Posts: 174
    markhampton, you keep spouting off about how poor MBs reliability is, like they can not even be driven without a failure. If you do not know how utterly rediculous that asssertion is you area a bigger fool than you have made yourself out to be.

    Lets see here, I currently own a '98 750iL, a '01 S600, a '95 G320, a '91 325iX, an '86 944 Turbo and a "01 Chev duramax pick-up. The S600 is a recent purchase. We were in California visiting friends and relatives. I rented a '01 Seville SLS for about 10 days. The car had about 4000 miles on it. THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE COMPARING TO AN S600???? I can see you have a personal vendetta against merc1, but your line of thinking is crazy. it doesn't even make sense to try and dispute it with you. The SLS I drove ran rough, was loosing exterior trim parts and had the worlds most annoying climate control. Instead of blowing a constant temp, it cycles about every 10 seconds between hot and cold to keep the temp even. Sure the MB and Caddy offer auto climate control, there is hardly a comparison to be made though. The Caddy system is garbage, like the rest of the car. You go ahead and love that Caddy. GM makes nothing but junk.

    As for your CTSi, is it here yet? Will they actually follow through? Are you ready to see it slaughtered by an E-class AMG car with the 476hp supercharged V8?

    My impression of the Caddy after a couple thousand miles is this. I have been driving premium German cars for about a decade. The Seville struck me as a good car for someone entering the luxo car arena. It is nice looking, and reasonable to drive (fwd stinks). It has the big name features. If you had never driven a 7 series BMW or S-Class you would likely be very impressed with this car. I, on the other hand, have been spoiled by the superiopr engineering that goes into the premium German cars. In that light the Caddilacs are WAY outclassed, no matter what JD and CR say.
  • tiger40tiger40 Posts: 10
    What a show!! This is better than my favorite TV program merc1 and markhampton. I am an owner of a S430 (2001)and I could not be more dissapointed with the build quality. The CL is a much better vehicle. markhampton...you make awesome points that i as a person who plunked down $76k happen to agree with....i am not that familiar with the CTS...but I admit that the Caddy has come a long way. For those loyal to MB...we must make it known that MB can no longer live on it's name and must make quality dependable vehicles that are also attractive to the eye. I think they have figured out the latter....but really need to focus on quality. I am not too proud to say that mb needs help or will continue to lose to Lexus, BMW and yes .... even the American made Cadillac.

    Wake up MB owners...we can no longer except inferior products...it took 4 years to get the ML right...by that time competition has caught up. The LS430 IS a better made car (there are facts galore on this topic) however it does not appeal to eyes as much as the S. The C Class coupe is a piece of garbage and the current E Class is outdated and suffers from numerous mechanical problems. The only mb truly worth the 3 star on the hood is the new SL and the CL. i am only being honest!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    If the current E-Class is so outdated then that must be why it's being replaced this fall, it's called time progress. Every car gets old and eventually gets passed by the competition. And the E-Class is not plagued by problems either, it's easily MB's most trouble free car. And for such an outdated it's still very much sought after.

    M
  • tiger40tiger40 Posts: 10
    Merc1...I agree that the E is the most sought after MB. That is due to the price point, value, and style. It is a good buy for the money if your intent on a benz. However, compared to the competition...it is not a very good value. As for the problems...I can't quote magazines or articles (quite frankly...no time) But I can share with you that my service dept mgr (local Boston MB dealership) indicated that the vehicle is problematic. This could be the result of more E Class being sold than any other class and they just happen to see more. In any event, I don't want to be part of your debate...just want to enjoy it and add my perspective as a mb owner with a open mind. Lastly, i will say that the s class certainly if nothing else has the incredible ability to turn heads where ever i go...then again it could be my faboulous good looks ...lol.
  • rbrenton88rbrenton88 Posts: 186
    Markhampton's statement that the E-class tranny works incorrectly is, well, incorrect. The tranny is driver adaptive. If you cruise, it doesn't readily downshift unless mashed. If you tear around most of the time, it changes shift points.

    I think all models suffer from one electronic quirk or another. I've had several: rain-sensing sensor won't sense, the gas gauge sometimes gives me fits. Do I complain to the dealer? heck yes. Would a GM owner? I suspect they're more concerned with the tranny dropping off the car somewhere along Rt.66.
    But I could be wrong.
  • benznutbenznut Posts: 104
    Sorry, I got you mixed with v12 power. Was a nice compliment, though:-)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well that may be true to a degree, but Benzes aren't ever going to be the "Value" choice when it comes to their respective market segments. It's just been my experience with talking with E-Class owners they've found it to be the most reliable Benz out of the sedans. Espeically in the latter years of the current E's production.

    benznut,

    I know right!! I can only imagine what V12power must go though trying to decide which V12 to drive on a daily basis. Everyone should experience a 12-cylinder car sometime in their automotive years.

    M
  • All I know is that it didn't work properly for me. If it was supposed to adapt, it didn't adapt in time to change my impression of the car. On another board, I read that they didn't get the electronic bugs worked out of their transmission until this year. I don't know if that's true or not, but it is consistent with my experience.

    Would a GM owner [worry]? I suspect they're more concerned with the tranny dropping off the car somewhere along Rt.66

    I guess that's why BMW -- a more reliable brand than MB -- is using GM transmissions...
  • v12powerv12power Posts: 174
    WERE using GM transmissions. Gotta keep up! They are now ZF or Getrag, guess they had too many fall out along Rt.66
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