Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
M
The car should not be aligned to pull slightly right. That is pure bunk. Are they going to replace those 18" tires when they wear out prematurely? The car should be aligned to go STRAIGHT down the road, period.
It sounds to me like you ought to find another dealer. I hope you have another somewhat close by. I get really perturbed when dealers handle things like this. They need to make that car drive as YOU want it too. The irony is that the fixes are really simple. Just a couple hopurs in the shop and they would have a satisfied customer. If they wont correct it contact MBUSA, the number is in your manual. Let us know how this progresses.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=4801&sid=178&n=156
M
Now, it seems official (almost) that the bi-turbo V12 will make it into the facelifted S Class. Does this mean that the rest of the flagship fleet will get it too, namely the Cl and SL class? If yes, I am eager to read how a bi-turbo SL600 will compare to the SL55 (that was tested at 208mph, and AMS recently tested its 0-100kmh at 4.4 sec - way deep into 360 Modena and 911 Turbo territory)
M
One thing I found was that the cell phone is really well integrated and makes up a BIG part of the COMAND system. For some reason, MB installed an ANALOG (800 mhz) only phone in the car (even in yr 2000???).
Anyhow, that was a big disappointment since I have been reading up on ALL the wonderful data features that the new 2002/2003 models will have with the upgraded phone system connected via fiber-optics. All the features that I will not be entitled to...even after dropping $70K for this car.
On top of that, I went to a cell store to have it activated when they told me they are not able to activate ANY analog phones..the carriers will not allow it. Basically, I cannot take advantage of any of the "Digital" plans that have reasonable pricing with the current Motorola "brick" phone which resembles the old DPC550...if any of you remember. I had to call Verizon and Cingular directly to learn that they only offer 1 plan for analog phones..with OUTRAGEOUS pricing.
I wanted to upgrade my phone and inquired about it through a MB dealer. They told me that I can only upgrade to the Motorola Startac 7860 which will run on the 800 mhz frequency. They told me I cannot get the new V60 phone bec. I don't have the integrated fiber-optic connections. They told me that the price for parts alone is $2000; not including labor.
Does anyone have a work-around this, without paying $2000 for a half-baked solution. I cannot seem to find ANY information on aftermarket integration with the MB COMAND system.
I would appreciate any information on any other options that you may be aware of.
TIA,
-CR
I was hoping to get more miles out of the Continentals, but this is the first set for me. Is 27,000 about right for normal driving for these tires? I would have preferred the Michelin MXV series that were issued on some of the other S classes, but I guess this was the luck of the draw.
Now the question is, what is everyone's opinion on what brand of tire to replace the Continentals with, staying with the current stock size? And keeping in mind the best ride, handling, and durability for the S Class.
I look forward to hearing everyone's response.
Thanks
The Continentals never impressed me. Why did Mercedes have 2 makes of tires on the S Class? Some had Continentals and some had Michelins.
Any other recommendations and specifically what tire series?
Thanks
Thanks for the responses to my wheel balance problem.
Moreover, JD Powers ranks MB 14th out of 20 in its long-term dependability study. Cadillac, Lincoln and Jaguar all score higher than MB, along with the usual suspects, Lexus, Infiniti, Toyota, Honda, etc.:
http://www.jdpa.com/studies_jdpower/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=585&CatID=1
Electrohydraulic brakes from a company that can't get basic reliability right? No thanks.
P.S.
Just keep the trolling up Merc1. It will give me an excuse to expand this thread to every MB board on Edmunds. When you actually have to spend your own money on a car, rather than reading about them on the web, you might start caring about things like dependability.
Ditto on the Merc1 comments.
For the kind of premium one pays to get that three-pointed star, one should expect a better showing than 10th in long-term dependability. Does it make sense to pay a premium for Lexus quality? You bet. There's no better car in terms of quality on the face of the planet right now.
Alternatively, one can buy a Deville DTS or Q45 and get better quality than the S-Class at a $25k discount.
There is a lot more toa quality automobile than JD Powers numbers. I'll tellyou what, you buy a Caddilac and we willcompare how they function after 100k miles. JD Powers is way off and you are twisting the results to justify buying a cut rate lux car.
Please tell me what was twisted about the JD Power and CR assessments. If you're going to accuse me of twisting the facts, give me a chance to see the error of my ways. What exactly did I twist when I quoted the results of two different reputable quality-related research organizations?
As for "fun-to-drive," I think a 'Vette would be more fun-to-drive that any of the aforementioned choices. The Q45 is somewhat fun to drive, although it may not make enough "mechanical noise" to suit some people. I'll bet the 400hp CTS will be more fun to drive than any of these choices, save the 'Vette. By all accounts, the CTS is one of the best handlers on the market today, and perhaps just a small notch below the BMW 5-Series. With a 400hp aluminum block V8, with all of that engine's attendant torque, I'm willing to bet the CTS will be plenty of fun to drive! Especially if there are MBs around willing to take up the challenge!
Better quality (in relation to MB), very good fit and finish, power 'till the cows come home, all at a reasonable price. That's what the CTS, and future Caddys, are all about!
Are there any legitimate MBZ owners/enthusiasts who wish to contribute something usefull to this discussion?
JD Powers also did a study measuring owners' satisfaction with dealer service during the warranty period:
http://www.jdpa.com/studies/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=572&CatID=1
And wouldn't you know it, MB ranks near the bottom of the luxury class once again! Lexus #1, Cadillac #4, Infiniti #5, Jaguar #6, Lincoln #7 ... Mercedes Benz #17.
Overall service (warranty and non-warranty) was also studied:
http://www.jdpa.com/studies/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=527&CatID=1
And the results came out similarly, with Lexus #1, Cadillac #3, Infiniti #4, Lincoln #8, Jaguar #12, and Mercedes Benz bringing up the rear of the luxury class at #13.
JD Powers didn't measure snob appeal, but I'm sure that is one area where MB probably scores quite well. You may not have the best service, the most reliable cars, or cars which are the most fun to drive, but you do have that all-important snob appeal. As if a man is measured by the car he drives....
-Mark
Markhampton posted that Mercedes has 3 models on the CR "avoid" list. The ML, CLK and S-Class. Now for all this effort trying smear Mercedes Benz he couldn't come up with squat. The fact is that EVERY Cadillac sedan, Catera, Seville, and Deville have been on the list in various years since 1995. The S-Class had one year 2000 in which CR said to avoid. The CLK had 2 years, 2000/2001 and the ML since 1998. Everyone knows the ML was not and still doesn't meet Mercedes standards so thats no surprise. Yet the S-Class only had it's first year on the list, and seeing as how the 2001 model didn't make the "avoid" list indicates that Mercedes corrected the problems the car had up it's launch. Cadillac can't get the piece of junk Seville right in over 6 years of trying! On top of that the C-Class, SL, CL and E-Class haven't been on the "avoid" list. Period.
Next up is the fact you can't seem to understand that a many don't give a rats behind about CR or JD powers because if they did European cars as a whole wouldn't sell at all here. For a slightly more reliable Cadillac a many have chosen to drive a better performing, better designed, and just all around more satisfying car than a boss-hogg Cadillac. Does Lexus make a good car yes, but I don't see how that help Cadillac, you're so desperate to prove a point you're holding up the brand that has kicked Cadillac's teeth down it's throat since 1990. In the same manner in which Toyota has done GM in general. A Deville and a Q45 would get trounced in a comparo with a S-Class, the Q45 for all it's greatness (per you) can't be given away by Infiniti dealers. Yeah it must be a great car.
All you have is a bunch of "predictions" which don't mean squat, because like I've said so many times before..you simply don't know what MB, Cadilac or any other carmaker does under the skin of the car from one model year to the next in order to improve reliability. We do know however that Cadillac hasn't done crap to the Seville because it's a repeat winner on the "Avoid" list year after year. Yet your only defense to this is "they'll be out of production soon", that is the biggest pile of BS I've yet heard from a GM fan. Troll: person who enters a topic for no other reason than to start a mess...that would be you in here now.
Lastly if you find time to pull your head out of surveys, why don't you go to any used car lot and see for yourself how well a Mercedes' paint, body, and interior hold up over time Compared to a Cadillac on average. Especially if you look a early to mid 90's model MB and Cadillac cars. Does your precious JD/CR bible go back that far to measure true long-term durability? Probably not. For all this superior reliability you speak of Cadillac still can't get their resale value out of the 99 cents bin. According to you they make a better car than Cadillac so why doesn't the real world of resale values bare this out?
Are you really trying to say that the CTS has better quality than Mercedes? Yeah right, that's why early CTS' blew their engines and Lutz won't even sell the car in Europe until something can be done about the sorry RubberMaid interior of the current car.
baron87,
You're a dreamer who has never even driven a car. So guess what you're "opinion" is worth.
M
What a concept: refute fact with fiction! First of all, my statements have all been based on truth, which apparently you are too short-sighted to see. Secondly, if there were no dreamers in our world the automobile wouldn't exist. I'm truly sorry, merc, if my not submitting to the monotony of convention upsets you so much to make you insecure.
And what is my opinion worth? I'm guessing 500 USD? 600? Your "opinion" would has a lesser value, though, since it is not unique, and mainly consists of text taken from 10-year old Mercedes brochures.
It strikes me as interesting when markhampton provides us with so many unbiased FACTS that you still refute them. Cadillac scores ahead of Mercedes in every JD Power study. Why do you still deny it? You cannot refute fact with fiction...unless in your extreme view-point what is fact to the rest of the world suddenly becomes fiction, and ficton becomes fact. Maybe...
M
What do you say we copy this thread to all of the MB boards? Potential owners should know about MB's abysmal reliability and service ratings.
"Yet the S-Class only had it's first year on the list, and seeing as how the 2001 model didn't make the "avoid" list indicates that Mercedes corrected the problems"
Who's speculating now?
Fact: For 2002, CR gave the S-Class a rating of 2 out of 5 (CR, April 2002, 57).
Fact: The S-Class is ranked below the Deville in reliability (CR, April 2002, 27).
Fact: You will not find an Escalade or an Eldorado anywhere on CR's "used cars to avoid" list. The Catera was not on the list after 1999. That leaves the Seville which, like the S-Class, ranks lower than the Deville in reliability. Evidently you're hanging your hat on a car that will be out of production by the end of the year. Sad.
"many don't give a rats behind about CR or JD powers because if they did European cars as a whole wouldn't sell at all here"
At least you got one thing right. You once asked if I thought consumers were stupid. It appears we agree on this at least. Consumers must be stupid if they are willing to pay that much for a car with abysmal reliability and abysmal service.
"A Deville and a Q45 would get trounced in a comparo with a S-Class"
Giving us a prediction, are you?
"All you have is a bunch of "predictions" which don't mean squat"
Which is far more than you have given us. Saying one car trounces another means little without some reference to back it up. Where are your references Merc? All you have given us thus far is your opinion. When you actually own and drive one of these cars on a daily basis, your opinion might be worth something. Until then, your opinion isn't worth "squat."
Too bad Car and Driver didn't have an MB in its February 2002 comparo to go up against the CTS. If the CTS is just slightly below the 5-series in the handling department, then MB has a lot of catching up to do. And then there's the 400hp CTSi. That will be one sweet comparo, my friend.
"why don't you go to any used car lot and see for yourself how well a Mercedes' paint, body, and interior hold up over time Compared to a Cadillac"
Bingo. You're living the dream of the past and ignoring the problems of the present. Without a doubt, MB built some good cars in the past. Newer MB's, however, have gained a reputation for being "de-contented" or "cheapened" -- take the adjective of your choice. If you're in the market for a new car you can do better than a Mercedes.
You're clearly passionate about MB, and that's fine. If you're in the market for an 80s vintage MB, there are good ones to be found. Likewise, I would avoid 80s vintage Cadillacs. I don't buy used MBs or Cadillacs, however, so that's not a consideration for me.
If I had $120k I was willing to spend on a car, I certainly wouldn't throw it away on an S600. For my money, two LS430s would make far more sense.
I know nothing about Autocar but if it's anything like the auto rags here in the U.S., then they likely place a premium on a car's "fun-to-drive" factor rather than how easy it is to live with on a day-to-day basis. I'm sure the S600 is a fine toy, but I use my car for daily transportation and prefer not to drive dealer loaners or rentals while my hypothetical toy is in the shop.
I think it is kind of pathetic that obvious GM fanatics (baron87 included) come on other boards just to justify their purchase (or their parents purchase)?
Well, now, call it what you will but we all know why I'm here. An eye for an eye, and a troll for a troll. I've had it with Merc1's tiresome rants in the Cadillac forums. Two can play at that game.
Merc1: "Again I ask if Cadillac is so good why can't they pull their resale out the toilet?"
And again, I say consumers are idiots. The generation who bought pet rocks is the same generation who has grown up to buy MBs. If sales are the measure of a car's reliability and quality, then by your logic, the Ford Taurus is a reliable high-quality car, right? Of course not.
Sales success is as much a function of marketing and perception as it is a reflection of reliability, quality and performance. If marketing did not create sales, then manufactures wouldn't spend billions on it. Even you should be able to see that.
Have you followed the Pentium 4 vs. AMD Athlon debate? Most people who only know what they have heard in commercials might think a 1.5 GHz P4 is faster than a 1.3 GHz Athlon, but nothing could be further from the truth. That's what is known as effective marketing. Intel may not make the best products, but they are without a doubt the best marketers of their products. Likewise with MB. Both MB and Intel seem to think they can live on their reputations forever. We shall see.
CR says MB's reliability is in the toilet. JD Powers says MB's reliability is in the toilet. I have asked you time and again to point me to a reputable source indicating otherwise, and all you can say is that "MB still sells a lot of cars." To presume that the effect of sales is driven by the cause of quality is little more than a logical fallacy. It does nothing in the least to further your argument. For example, Chrysler still sells a boat load of minivans, but it would be foolish to assume that this is an indication of how reliable or well-built their minivans are.
Well then you must be among them them cause you have a deflating value Cadillac. If you think Cadillac's hold up so much better then why don't you go to a used car lot than sells luxury cars and see for yourself why nobody wants to pay anything for a Cadillac. Just because Cadillac's resale is so poor isn't Mercedes' fault. Cadillac is still paying for the junk they've built of the last 20 years. Period. Until 1998 Cadillac had not car that was worth mentioning. Period.
Where did I say that sales=reliability? Where oh where? The DeVille is a old folks car first and foremost and the S500 will blow it off the road. If the DeVille isn't more exciting than the S-Class then why do you keep pointing to the Deville when you speak of the S-Class. The S-Class has the car beat in so many area's it's pathetic to even compare to two. No comment on the MT comparo right? Thought not, since you live by books and such.
I said Mercedes sells more cars because the feeble merits that Cadillac may haven't aren't enough anymore. Lexus, BMW and Mercedes are all knee deep in Cadillac's.... And you'd better watch out for Acura. I didn't not point out sales to illustrate that MB's were the highest quality cars on the market.
Come again.
M
Fact: The S-Class is ranked below the Deville in reliability (CR, April 2002, 27).
Fact: You will not find an Escalade or an Eldorado anywhere on CR's "used cars to avoid" list. The Catera was not on the list after 1999. That leaves the Seville which, like the S-Class, ranks lower than the Deville in reliability. Evidently you're hanging your hat on a car that will be out of production by the end of the year. Sad.""""
Where are the CL, SL, E, and C Class on the list? The Seville isn't going out production by the end of the year. What are you on? So I guess the fact that Cadillac hasn't been able to make the Seville reliable in over 5 years means that it's excused because it's due to be replaced soon. That is the biggest pile or BullS ever. So what are the people who want a Seville NOW supposed to do? Are you telling me that the all new Seville is due for 2003? Duh it isn't.
The Escalade is a Chevy truck, and the Eldorado is an antique. Yeah that's real impressive the Chevy (mass produced and kinks worked out by testing it on Chevy customers first) and the 10 year old Eldorado that should have at least be trouble free NOW after all these years of producing them.
"A Deville and a Q45 would get trounced in a comparo with a S-Class"
Yep that's what I said. Don't you read. MT already did this comparo, minus the Q45 and guess who won and who got a mutthole kicked in their hood.
You talk about me giving predictions, but yet you've already come to the conclusion that the CTS would have beat the C-Class in C&D last comparo, yet you don't want to acknowledge MT's comparo when the DTS got creamed. Pure hypocritical nonsense from you as always.
""You're living the dream of the past and ignoring the problems of the present. Without a doubt,
MB built some good cars in the past. Newer MB's, however, have gained a reputation for being
"de-contented" or "cheapened" -- take the adjective of your choice. If you're in the market for a new car you can do better than a Mercedes.""
You almost got it right. They've been de-contented from previous cars, but the previous cars were over the top to begin with. You must have gone to that used car lot in between post. You still want to sit here and give an uninformed opinion, seeing as though you have no experience with Mercedes cars. Yes you give surveys, but that's all you have to give, yet I tell you I've been in MB cars for more than just a drive around the block and yet you discredit that, so why would anyone care about your continious posting of the same mess over and over again.
All you have is your surveys.
benznut,
I wish! You got me mixed up with V12power, he has a S600 and a 750iL.
M
I have admitted that Cadillac's resale value is not as good as MB's, although the difference isn't dramatic as you might think. Of course, it's unlikely that you have any personal experience in this arena, so it comes as no surprise that you know little about these cars' relative resale values.
What matters in the end is what the car is worth when you sell it, as a percentage of it's purchase price. When you take Cadillac's discounting into account, the two are not far apart. Certainly not far enough apart to justify spending an extra $30k on the less reliable S-Class. When I was looking for a car in this class, I ran the numbers on the S-Class. Even when taking resale value into account, the S-Class was considerably more expensive. I just couldn't justify it.
M
Now you turn around and try to down play Cadillac's terrible resale with "they're being discounted". Thank you proves my point. They have to be discounted to move in the first place. Thats a sign of a true qualtiy car in a wide-open market such as the current one. Only bottom feeder cars are being heavily discounted. Acura's RL comes to mind, yet let you tell it Cadillac is so much better.
M
I drove the SLK for a week. Not impressed. I drove the current incarnation of the E-class for a day. Very unimpressed. What's up with that stupid E-Class transmission anyway? When I press the gas pedal down, I want it to downshift. GM knows how to make a transmission that behaves properly. I guess that's why BMW is using GM transmissions now.
I didn't drive an S-Class. Why pay more for a car that is proven to be less dependable?
My father owned an MB and will never buy another one. I don't recall the model, but I do remember him complaining about it needing a valve job and a new automatic transmission before it hit 70k miles.
These were my MB experiences. What is the extent of your Cadillac experience?
As I have said, Mr. Incomprehendo, magazines place more importance on track performance than day-to-day driveability and dependability. If you can keep that S-Class running long enough, I'm sure it will perform well on the track for the magazine writers. That has little to do with it's suitability for every day driving.
I personally don't care much about track performance, but if that's what you want then you should check out the CTS. Especially when it's fitted with a 400hp aluminum block V8. Since you're interested in predictions, I'll give you one: The CTSi will eat a similar class MB alive on the track.
Enough of this for tonight. I'll read and respond to the remainder of your drivel tomorrow.
All in all your week in a SLK and test drive of an E-Class pales in comparison to my experiences. Period. Now back to your surveys.
M