Mercedes-Benz S-Class

sean2g · April 2001

If possible everyone could eveyone WITHOUT stock rims post their picture/s of their S class thanks.

mrman_3k1 · April 2001

Drew or anybody else that works for Edmunds, I saw a while ago the comparison test for the Luxury cars for 2000. Could you guys look into doing it again for the 2002 models, with the new BMW 7, MB S and the others. I think it would be very interesting since both the BMW and MB would have a V12 and there is the new Lexus LS. Please post anything if something like this is in the works!

py_guru · April 2001

What is your experience so far? There were some earlier posts
indicating that a single A/C wasn't sufficient on hot days.
Is this still true? Would you recommend getting the Rear A/C
for the S-500?

chapman7 · April 2001

For a car in the range of $90,000-$100,000 to have an air conditioner that is incapable of keeping the rear passengers comfortable would be unbelievable and would certainly add amunition to those who feel that MB has lost its touch with building a quality automobile. I find this hard to believe but, if true, quite disturbing to put it mildly.

dkiehl1 · April 2001

I need some help. I've never owned a Benz and I'm considering one on Ebay. There's a '95 black S600 coupe with 63500 miles on it. Is there anything I should know about this model or model year or anything that would help me decide. It looks great in the pictures but I've never even driven one of these cars. They sound incredible from all the literature I've seen. Thanks alot! Dan

paulchiu · May 2001

Got above message before starting my S500 over the weekend.

If you're lucky to get it. You'll have to go to your Benz dealer to get new COMAND software. Which took me over 2 hours.....

drew_ · May 2001

drew_ · May 2001

Just a reminder that the MB chat is on tonight (6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern). Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/mercedeschat.html

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards

georget3 · May 2001

Paul, could you elaborate more about your "SOS Workshop" instance? What is the mileage? Circumstance under which it occurred? And, also, how does the updated command software differ?
Thanks

pfiorentino · May 2001

paulchiu,

Yes, I'd like to know to a bit more, too. I'm supposed to pick up my new car Friday AM and would love to know if this is simply a matter of loading a new CD ROM and upgrading the software..or is it perhaps more complicated if it took you two hours to accomplish the task?

paulchiu · May 2001

On newer models, the software should be pre-loaded. You need not worry.

My 2001 S500 has 2600 miles and I picked it up last 9/28. The message just popped up last Sunday when I started up the car. Instead of whatever display you'd set on the instrument panel, you'd get a message "SOS Workshop" instead.

I phoned the Tele-Aid guys right from the car and they told me to get my COMAND software upgraded.

The upgrade is some sort of EPROM burn-in with a portable device. I did not witness the process. It told 2+ hours because the 1st fellow doing it was unsuccessful in 5 tries. The next guy did it on his 1st try. So, try to get a competent technician and you can have it done in 15 minutes!

pfiorentino · May 2001

Thanks, paulchiu.

But 2600 miles in seven months?! I do that in one-and-a-half! What did you do? Put it away for the winter?

paulchiu · May 2001

I really don't have many opps to drive the car. Since I now work out of my home. So the S sits inside the garage pretty much all the time.

I am planning to drive it to Florida or California this or next year.

mlbarnes · May 2001

I have a 2001 S430 that I brought in March. Should I be worried about the SOS Workshop? What models and/or year are they updating? Any information would be greatly appreciated.

drew_ · May 2001

paulchiu · May 2001

As far as I know, it does not interfere with driving. THe upgrade is for navigation and information only. After I receive the diagnostic message, I managed to call TeleAid, they voiced their directions to me, and the car drove perfectly afterwards.

If you see the message, simply call TeleAid. They will most likely tell you to call your dealership. Then you can remove message by pressing the "R" trip meter-reset button. Then drive as you would normally. My 2001 S500 was produce in August 2000. I don't know what models and/or year this issue affects.

mlbarnes · May 2001

Does anyone have any information in reference to adding the close trunk feature? Any information would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

taison · May 2001

Here is a video clip of the automatic trunk closer feature in a CL600.

Automatic trunk closer video

mrman_3k1 · May 2001

I have the trunk closer on my S600 and it really is a nice feature. It could be really considered as "not necessary" by some, but I really find it entertaining. When I first picked the car up, I just kept playing with it. I would recommend this to anybody getting an S-Class. after all, when you pay $70-80,000 what is another $500?

Also, could anybody put any videos or pictures of the CL-class, I am considering either the CL600 or CL55. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

pfiorentino · May 2001

Very, very cool download.

Let me guess: If that car was on the floor at Fletcher Jones in Newport Beach, they must be asking $150K for it.

At least they have one on the floor, though, unlike M-B Manhattan, where I was today, which hasn't seen one since the CL intro, I'd wager. And that's a factory store. I know of dealers like M-B of Greenwich who won't even take a deposit on a CL no matter how long you're willing to wait, because it's just too far many years out now.

Every time I get my weekly issue of "Autoweek," there's 3 or 4 wholesalers in the classified section with several CLs on offer. It irritates me no end that these wholesalers have a selection of cars, and the legitimate factory stores have absolutely none to offer for a year or more. And you better believe that just as many of those CLs are going sideways from dishonest factory authorized dealers to those wholesalers, as are going from legitimate end users who've decided to flip their cars for a profit.

On popular, limited production cars like the CLs, I think M-B should start doing what Ferrari is doing on very limited edition models. That is, if you want one, you have to sign a non-flip agreement. If you do decide to sell in the first year of ownership, the selling dealer has the right to buy the car back for whatever you paid.

Good luck getting a CL55, by the way. Sorry to say, but it's unfortunately virtually impossible to get one at list price from an M-B dealer.

rexconde1 · May 2001

Here is the link to our now gone CL500

http://www.exconde.com/cl500.htm

We sold it for the CLK55, lost the much more elegant look for the CLK%5

pfiorentino:

The CL55 is on order and WE are getting it at sticker....

Robert

paulchiu · May 2001

How nasty was the "My vehicle is better than yours..." chat yesterday?

rexual · May 2001

I have an S55 MAG on order with the Key less-Go feature. I was informed by the dealer that it was to be available Jan. 2001. I'm getting vague responses now from them when I call up for an update on the order put through their "TOPS"? system.I would appreciate any feedback and info regarding this. Should I tell them to wait for it or go ahead and take the car without it. Has anyone actually seen it in operation. I also concur with the Gentleman from Manhattan about not being able to see anything before you buy it. What burns me more is the attitude of some of the dealer's salesmen. I don't know why they seemed very unenthusiastic to just take an order. I wasn't there to bargain or get freebies. I had to try 4 different places just to sit down and order one. Are there any other via sources/alternatives to buy this particular model? Thanks for any info you might have. Good Day.

drew_ · May 2001

KeylessGo is definitely available now (at least in Canada). I've seen this option on a few S and a couple of CL-class cars at the dealership. It's a pretty nifty feature. All you do is keep the KeylessGo card in your pocket. To open and close the doors, all you have to do is touch a spot on the door handle. To start the car, there is a button on the top of the shift lever that you press and hold down for a second. The Keycard will have to be within a certain proximity of the steering wheel/shift lever before the car will start though. This safety feature is to prevent any accidental startups. It has been available in Europe since the S-class first came out in 1999, which is why it puzzled me as to why North Americans didn't get the option till now.

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

pfiorentino · May 2001

rexual,

I've noticed this, too. I presume that the reason they're so unenthusiastic is that the sales people don't get paid until one takes delivery on the car. They work on commission.

Robert,

I can order one and pay list for it, too. My point, though, was that a CL55 will take at least two to three years to receive from a New York area dealer, and some even quoted longer than that! Several won't even take an order. It's the same on the West coast.

And yet, if I drive 15 miles outside of Manhattan to a wholesaler in NJ, I can have my immediate choice of three on the showroom floor...for a price, of course. There are many, many other wholesalers in the region who have cars, as well. So what's going on here?

Obviously, those wholesalers are buying a few cars from lucky private owners willing to flip their cars. That practice I don't have as much of a problem with. But the wholesalers don't buy cars that way too often, because it's just too expensive and cuts into their margins, and exponentially increases their exposure. I'll wager many more cars are coming from small market M-B dealers who get one and ship it sideways to these outfits. Or, these wholesalers have multiple deposits on multiple cars and as cars come in they buy them (without paying taxes -- which means the M-B dealer is fully aware of whom they are dealing with and is supposed to invalidate the order). Then the wholesaler sells the car for a fat profit. With all of the cars these guys are shipping offshore, as well, there isn't much left for the rest of us.

This practice is even worse than ticket scalping, which it on the surface resembles. Except in this case, the wholesaler takes almost no risk at all! Unlike ticket scalpers who take a business risk because they actually buy the ticket (although there are crooked ways around that risk, too, as I've learned), if the CL55 market collapses, the wholesaler simply cancels his order and asks for his deposit back. In many states, the dealer has an obligation to promptly return it. No one is a more conservative, free-market enthusiast than I, but gentlemen and ladies, this deck is stacked.

By the way, with the soft economy, I figured there'd be lots of order cancellations, but it seems there haven't been and the car is still essentially impossible to get.

Congratulations on your imminent arrival, though! When did you place your order?

mrman_3k1 · May 2001

For my 2001 S600, what the dealer did was looking around the country at all the MB dealers, once they found the car exactly as I ordered it, they purchased it from that MB dealer and shipped the brand new car to the dealer here in the Bay Area. Then I took it home, the one main down side was that the process added an extra $40,000 because it was a Designo and S600. I think things will get better because of the economy and people won't have the money to keep buying these premium cars, I have a CL55 on order and they are doing the same thing again.

sigmabos · May 2001

I have a new S430 and I have noticed that the brakes make a rather annoying sound (like chalk on a board)all the time (not just in the am as the dealer said was common)!!!

I told the service manager and he said MB was aware of the problem and working on a different brake pad. How can a $80k have this problem!! Has anyone been able to fix this issue? Please share

rexconde1 · May 2001

In a way it is pathetic that dealers will do this "market adjustment" (I think that is what they are calling it nowadays).

One dealer was selling a BMW Z8 for 289K, an M3 for 70K, each which lists for 129 and around 52K. Some of the CLK55s and S55s are going for 70 and $130K, also respectively.

I dont think that they will get these prices nowadays like you said because of the soft market, but I talked to one of the sales man and he said that he did sell a Z8 to a [non-permissible content removed] for 250K.

Well that is the way that the market works and I guess we'll have to each find our honest dealers. Hey its that $$ that keeps the world going round.

The order is my father's. NOT MINE. However I do wish to someday to be in his position to buy one of those. Our CL55 was supposed to come in July. But his plans are constantly changing. He has to replace the old S500 with something but he hasnt decided. But they are rolling in very slowly, so I think it may be even later -- but no rush. But you are right there have been no cancelations. Off hand I dont recall what # he is right now.

Robert

mrman_3k1 · May 2001

In the Bay Area the BMW dealers won't even take orders for the Z8, they said that anyone getting one now has had to pay over $350,000. That is a bit overpriced and I would rather spend it on an SLR which I am, put down a deposit a few weeks ago.

Good luck for anybody trying to get a car, also, there will be problems in cars from $10,000 to $100,000 it is unfortunate but true. At least the MB's are not blowing up like the Rolls Royces.

pexpl · May 2001

Any body still remeber the Maybach is it coming or not
Now if MB does made it to production, i will give up on the S-500 for now and wait and put deposit for the new Maybach that's poise to finish building its empire, that is to challenges Rolls and Bent..
sound exciting doesn't it MB owner and lovers!!?

mrman_3k1 · May 2001

They are going to go into production, my friend went to Germany and they had a "tour" of the new car. He said it looked great and they will begin taking deposits.

paulchiu · May 2001

Spend under 1 hour waxing my S500 today!

First, use California Brush to dust off dirt from recent rain showers.

Second, use Mequiar's Quik Detailer to really mist out surface dirt. Spread stuff with cotton towel #1. Let sit for 5 minutes. Dry off using cotton towel #2.

Third, use Mequiar's Gold Class Clear Coat Car Wax (liquid form). Spread using applicator. Let dry for 15-20 minutes. Wipe off using cotton towel #2. Let sit another 5 minutes. Wipe hard with clean cotton towel #3.

This baby is now smoother than a baby's [non-permissible content removed].

The "Gold Class" Mequiar's Clear Coat wax shine is pretty great! And very easy to remove.

mrman_3k1 · May 2001

Would you recommend me to use the MB cleaning kit, or if there is something better, please tell. Thanks

paulchiu · May 2001

MB cleaning kit is made by Mequiar's. I bought the kit 2 years ago for my ML430. My recommendation is for the Mequiar's "New Paint Collection" for 39.95. This kit contains the Quik Detailer, the Gold Class Clear Coat Liquid Wax, and deep crystal polish. And a few other pieces. You should get their pure cotton towels. Go to their website or better yet, call them at 800-545-3321. The reps are very experienced in car care.

rexual · May 2001

Drew, I appreciate your response regarding this issue. I got a message from the dealer yesterday and again it said it's not being accepted into the order system (TOPS) to Germany. Has anyone successfully ordered this feature on an S class car here in the States?

There was a fellow from Britain who posted a message back in Feb, 2001 that he had a lot of problems with it. And there was another fellow who said he was able to have the feature installed on his S600 which he received in Feb, 2001 in the Bay Area and loved it. Again, I'm debating whether or not to take the car with or whithout it. What kind of track record have you seen in Canada? And any other area where it has been available for the past two years, anyone?. I would appreciate your kind input. Thanks.

mrman_3k1 · May 2001

I was on the mbusa website and was doing the building a S500, it is for my parents. I noticed when going to the 4-place air package, that it looks like the wood on the console is chesnut. I thought it looks really good and they like it also. If somebody that has ordered it could please tell me how you like it that would be great. Also could anybody take a look here:

http://www.s-class.mbusa.com/byo/popups/options/S500_582_pop.html

and tell me if that is chesnut or just the lighting.

Thanks in advance.

benznut · May 2001

When and if you have keyless go, will you still be able to start the car with the conventional key? or does the keyless transponder ommit this?

hfrankel · May 2001

Just saw a 2001 S55 with dual chromed exhaust pipes, which i liked.

I have a 2001 S500 with Sport Package, but it lacks the dual exhaust pipes. Question -- is there a way to retrofit the rear bumper and add the dual pipe extensions. The bumper on the S55 is cutout (rounded) to accomodate the pipes .... can that be done on the non- S55 bumper?

I'm in the Washington, DC area -- if anyone knows a shop that can do this, please let me know. Thanks!!!

benznut · May 2001

Why does the Expresso designo edition not feature all the extra leather and wood just like the Silver one does? Mainly i am talking about the leather covered dash, the alcantra headliner and the wood in the rearview and vanity mirrors and everywhere else just like the S600. And yet there is a relatively small price difference between the two.

rexual · May 2001

Paul, thanks for the feedback on the Keyless Go issue. The dealer is working on it still. Really appreciate you taking the time.

paulchiu · May 2001

No problem. I have a lot of time here....

Trading stocks at home. Enjoying the view from my home office. Watching HDTV movies. Playing with my 3 year old son! Driving the S with my son. Life is good!

mrman_3k1 · May 2001

paulchiu, you are one lucky man.

pfiorentino · May 2001

paulchiu,

Off topic, but what display device are you using to watch your HDTV movies?

I have a Sony 34HD1 direct view TV for standard defintion and high defintition satellite broadcasts, and I use a Seleco HT200 front projector and Stewart screen for DVDs, HD movies, and HD sports.

I can't say I'm surprised that another M-B customer is an early adopter of HD, as I am.

paulchiu · May 2001

Hi,

I have the Zenith 64" rear projection set since Jan 2000 now. It has it's own tuner. I also have 2 Panasonic STB for OTA and cable reception. I record movies using the Panasonic PV-HD1000 D-VHS. The copies are like film, sometimes even better than what I remember from the theater.... I have over 150 films now in my HD library! Includes Matrix, Titanic, 61*, etc....

How are you receiving your HD signals?

mrman_3k1 · May 2001

I am planning on a building a home theater, any suggestions on good places to look in the Bay Area for premium systems?

Also, I saw that you can have your S-class outfitted with TV's and DVD's. Does MB do that or a 3rd party?

pfiorentino · May 2001

Paulchiu,

I get my HD via satellite (Dish Network), cable (Time Warner -- I use the RCA DTC100 and Dish 6000 as set top boxes for cable HD), and OTA (again via the DTC100 and Dish 6000, and the Sony HD tuner that comes with the 34HD1). I have not tried HD recording yet, but I have a friend who's super into it, and has set up all of these custom DV recording devices. When I'm ready (which may not be until TIVO releases an HD recorder!), I'll have him set me up.

mrman,

Look up home theater installers and high fidelity audio in the yellow pages. The high end video projector brands to look for are Sony (the G90 and D50 models are what you're looking for), Runco, Vidikron, Seleco/SIM2, Dwin, and now, Madrigal. Most of the custom installers are sources for a tremendous amount of misinformation, unfortunately, so feel free to email me privately to review the accuracy of what they're telling you once you start this process.

paulchiu · May 2001

I agree totally with you (Paul) on mis-information by installers..

I must have spend 6 months choosing my HDTV set. I ended up viewing practically all the sets available in late 1999; including the $35,000 Runco. I came down to the 65" Sony and my Zenith 64". Found a shop with both side by side, and decided that way.
(BTW PaulF, The 34" Sony is magnificent!, But I already have 2 Sony Wega's, so I was looking for something considerab;y larger.....)

Next I found a great video engineer named Gary Merson here in New York, who tuned my Zenith such that the DVD images were almost 60% of HD images and the HD images were like movie film. Some really good DVD disks were almost 80% of HD! I also got this professsional demo D-VHS tape from Pansonic, the images were like a moving slide film show! Completely 3-dimensional with vivid colors.

I have heard that by next year, the flat panels will be as large as 50" and the images will reach 85% of rear projection sets. I'll wait!

benznut · May 2001

Great stuf guys, I do not complain at all. But you might want to add a sentence or two about the S-class, or another automobile, for that matter, so that the host won't delete the posts. I saw this happen to a couple of guys on anothes Benz board who started talking Stock Market.

pfiorentino · May 2001

benznut,

Thanks for the tip. Hardly seems cricket to me, though.

Paulchiu,

I know Merson, too. I've met him in person and spoken on the phone to him a couple of times. He's very good. By the way, if you haven't seen the new $15,999 Runco plasma, you're in for a surprise. It's utterly incredible -- by far the best Plasma image I've seen, and I've seen everything. It's only 42 inches, though, but that's still plenty big if you're replacing a direct view set like the Wega, rather than a rear projection TV.

Now that I have my S500, I can tell people here that I made a couple of mistakes in ordering the car which they may wish to avoid. First, I definitely should have ordered the ventilated comfort seats -- this is expecially important if you get the charcoal interior. All of my previous Benz's had perforated leather, as I now realize, but if you get a new S class without the comfort seats, the leather isn't perforated. It looks terrific that way, but your back will sweat in very hot weather, an annoyance that's definitely inconsistent with the Lear jet-like sensation one has when sitting in the cockpit piloting one of these magnificent S class machines.

Second, for only $450 more, not getting the electric trunk closer was another big mistake. The trunk is stiff to close, and there is no natural place to grab it and shut it, especilly when the car is coated with road grime. It's especially difficult in my garage which isn't much longer than the car itself so the garage door is only about a foot or so away from the trunk. The electric trunk closer would definitely come in handy in my situation. The funny thing is, I had originally specified it, but a salesman talked me out of it because I have an 8 year old who might get his hand caught in the closing mechanism. My 8 year old is so into cars and their technology, however, I now realize that the likelihood of an accident occurring is remote.

A couple of options I did get are a bit overrated, as well. Parktronic is helpful when backing up, but the thing goes crazy every time a pedestrian walks in front of the car. It certainly would be more useful if it could detect high curbs to protect the AMG Sports Package front spoiler, too.

And the Tire Pressure Monitor turns out to provide perhaps more information than I should have. Everytime I check it and see that one tire is off by just a pound, my obsession with perfection kicks in and I'm seized by the overwhelming urge to pull into a gas station and precisely fill the offending tire. Perhaps it would have been better to skip this feature and just do it the old fashioned way by checking the air pressure with a $3.99 tire pressure gauge once per month. I also don't like the annoyance of the dashboard monitor informing me that I have to "Reset" the tire pressure monitor every single time I get in the car. Anyone know why that is? Perhaps I've got the settings wrong somewhere. I'll have to spend some time with the weighty manual this weekend to see if I can figure it out.

One last thing I should mention. I'm definitely torn by ABC. On the highway at high speeds, and through fast turns and exit ramps, it's incredible. The car has a stability and precision to it that is truly awe inspiring. But I'm ambivalent because the penalty it extracts in terms of ride harshness in potholed cities such as New York is enormous. It certainly doesn't help that the structural integrity of this new S class series is not nearly as good as previous M-B cars. Even my SL500 felt less rattly and loose at almost 80,000 miles than this new car when it hits pockmarked thoroughfares. Don't get me wrong, the S class feels far more sophisticated than my old SL and E500, and it's not that there are noisy rattles and squeaks per se. But the seats and doors definitely vibrate and shudder, and the entire car sometimes skips sideways from road impacts. That's disconcerting to say the least. Some of it has to do with the low profile tires and their stiff sidewalls, I'm sure.

If I were to do it again, though, I might skip the ABC, and settle for the nicely adjustable standard suspension which in it's firmest setting feels even more sports car-like than an ABC equiped car. It's even more harsh riding at the firmest setting than a car with ABC, but you can switch it to the soft setting at any time. Switching off ABC has almost no effect on the ride from what I've observed so far. Perhaps I need to switch it off when I'm in the city, AND raise the ride height, too, to get a suitable amount of suppleness.

paulchiu · May 2001

Great post!

I cannot agree with you more on most of your points concerning the minor noise and rattles inside my S500. I do get frame rattles over rough roads here in New York city. Unseemly for a near 100K vehicle. But, the drive compensates for this. The Lexus top line, with it's much quieter ride, seems almost lifeless when driven hard. The S500 (mine has ABC too) is a Porsche with 4 doors. I do not think ABC is the cause of the minor rattles and noises, as I heard and felt them while driving plain S500's in the past. Contrary to common sense, a tighter and more rigid structure; one that would protect us better in crashes, will make more noise. So, as far as I am concern, while the noise is bothersome over uneven roads, the joy in driving an S500 is over countryside winding roads in higher elevation. Driving on route 66 or route 95 forever is also the modus operandi for the Benz flagship.

My last large sedan was a Lexus, so I know the difference in the environments. The S500 is also a much more beautiful car. I am happy just brushing and waxing it every other weekend.

Love the cool sucking seats, cannot do without them here in NYC. I too, worry about the auto closing trunk, since there are no emergency stop mechanisms. I push down on the license plate to help close the trunk anyway.

PS I will check out the Runco....

Mercedes-Benz S-Class

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