Toyota Echo

pulgo · August 2001

My first 3 average MPGs were 37.4 - 44.79 and 42.01, not bad for an automatic. My average, now over 13.5 K miles is 43.32. Good luck with your new Echo. I'm sure you will enjoy the car very much!

lynnann1 · August 2001

I removed a few light scratches with a scratch and swirl remover. I can't remember the brand and right now I'm at work and the scratch remover is at home. It worked nicely, but took a little bit of elbow grease. You do have to be careful though, because you are removing paint while removing the scratches.

majorthomecho · August 2001

I think complaints about the danger of driving an Echo in crosswinds is a lot of hot air. ; )

Seriously, have I felt the wind? Yes. Has it been a problem? No.

I have also driven my Echo at around 100mph and felt very safe. It was very surefooted. Please note that I know that while I felt safe, going 100mph would have made for one spectacular crash if anything had gone wrong.

majorthomecho · August 2001

For my birthday, my roommate is going to buy me some time at a local track. I will going there to record some 0 to 60 and some quarter mile times.

ml91 · August 2001

People who say that an Echo or similar lightweight vehicle will be blown off the road are exaggerating greatly. I remember driving my Tercel (which weighs about the same as an Echo) over the Throgs Neck Bridge in New York City on a VERY windy night, and while I certainly felt the wind, it was not a dangerous situation at all.

majorthomecho · August 2001

My reference to crosswind complaints being a lot of hot air was something of a joke. What is the wind, but moving of air. Get it now?

I do stand by the fact that while I have felt my car moving around, I did not find it disturbing or dangerous.

Now, if someone is used to driving a much, much larger car, they may not feel the same.

majorthomecho · August 2001

I sent an email to a local track and they do allow people to use their track facilities to test the performance of their cars. The cost is $10 and it turns out one night of the week that they allow it is the night of my birthday. Is that a sign or what?

The hold up is that you have to have a helmet. I am writing them back to see if I can rent one.

They have also said that if a car is faster than 11.99 in the quarter, your car must have a roll cage. I don't think I need to worry about the roll cage. ; )

janbee · August 2001

There is an ECHO forum at yahoo http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/toyotaechoownersclub there is someone who took their ECHO to the racetrack a couple of times (although his ECHO is not stock) and I think his best time was around 17.59?? He also posted the results against several cars he raced against...check it out!!!

janbee · August 2001

Almost 4,000 KM's and 5 months old...no problems or complaints so far..

majorthomecho · August 2001

Thanks for the link. Kind of a shame that someone made an Echo owners' club on Yahoo before Edmunds made one for us here.

I think the difference between what Rippspeed did in the quarter and what the mags say is the method of starting. Do the mags use a light tree? Did this guy?

If I do go to the track, I will post my times here.

ml91 · September 2001

Does anyone know when the 2002 Echos will be available?

majorthomecho · September 2001

As many long time posters know, "Major Tom" is a black sand pearl Echo. I've got some bug splatter on him that I want to remove. I am looking for suggestions from anyone who has a car the same color as "the Major." I have looked at many products, but have not tried any yet because I worry about the warning regarding paint discoloration.

Your suggestions appreciated.

majorthomecho · September 2001

I heard back from the race track regarding helmets. They do have helmets there, but it is first come, first served. Get this though. The $10 bucks it costs to go down their strip is a one night charge. In other words, you pay the $10 and you can run down the strip as many times as you want that night.

majorthomecho · September 2001

I saw an ad in USA Today about Toyota Rent A Car. I went to Toyota.com and did a search for participating dealers in my area. Turns out there are two dealers in Kansas City that are Rent A Toyota dealers. My roommate is interested in an automatic Echo so I am going to call on Tuesday and see if either dealer has one for rent.

8k8mica · September 2001

I drive a 2001 echo sedan and it is a 1.3l version unlike you guys in the states. Today I took on a Mondeo (ford)2001 2.0l . The VVT-I engine is really good, at 135km/h i manage to sprint ahead of a very aggitated Modeo driver, I could imagine what was going on in his mind when he tried hard to push his car ahead as i drove head to head matching his speed , however the sprint lasted for only 3km and i had to turn off from the highway, i feel the engine is very peppy and i think that would make any potential buyer of an echo + 1 to its pro's list!

rajmoran · September 2001

I've got Goodyears on my '00 ECHO. Maximum cold PSI rating (as listed on the tire) is 44, but the ECHO Manual suggests 32 psi. The manual does not mention a specific brand, and I know the ECHO is shipped with one of several different brands of tire. Does anyone here run the tires at max psi? Why or why not?

I just got back from a vacation to Hilton Head from northern VA. Averaged 42 mpg on my 4-door automatic, with average speeds of 70+ on the interstate, AC blasting the whole time. I love this car!

mpgman · September 2001

Is the car Major Tom or Major Thom as it is spelled above? Or are you Thom? How are finding the interior cooling with the dark exterior? I read a number of posts about the lack of coldness of the Echo's A/C. Thanks.

majorthomecho · September 2001

I refer to my car either way although it started out being Major Tom. My Edmunds name is MajorTHomEcho because MajorTomEcho was taken.

You can call me whatever you want. Just don't call me late for dinner.

The air conditioning is definitely not as cold as air conditioning with Freon.

This may just be me, but one or two minutes after I start driving and have turned on the air conditioning, I am comfortable.

If a person is concerned with the heat, a black car is probably not the way to go.

babyboomer · September 2001

After wrapping my ac line as instructed in a long ago post, I made one addition. I noticed the tar based insulation slightly dripped down from the heat. I wrapped it with duct tape. So I have the foam tubing, tar based tape, and duct tape. No more drips, runs or errors. Dealer charged the ac up to maximum (warranty) a few months ago; asked me why all that stuff on the ac line. After I told him (mechanic) he said it was a great idea. I love the looks of the duct tape. Glad I thought of it.

mbohun · September 2001

I've read where the ozone safe R-134a is about 10% less effective than R-12 (Freon) in moving heat energy. So when you turn on the Air, the new R-134a systems may take more time to reach optimum cooling than typical R-12 systems. Anything one can do to help improve the efficiency of the system should help...like wrapping AC pipes to reduce heat conduction from the engine compartment to the Air Conditioner and the use of Recirculated Air to speed cool-down in cockpit.

kneisl1 · September 2001

My nu-finish wax job applyed last April has worn out and I re-did it this past weekend. So it lasted five months. Very pleased with the nu-finish and its easy to use...just wipe on and wipe off when it dries.
My 2001 ECHO is ten months old and had 6000 miles on it. Ive changed the oil three times in that time period. (I do mostly short distance driving) Still loving this car!

janbee · September 2001

I put some nu-finish on my hood a few months back and almost died when I finished cause I could see all the swirl marks(my echo is black) ..I called my friend and he told me to come over the next day and he would remove it and rebuff it himself with a buffer...but before I got to his house I washed my car and noticed the swirls were gone, I still ended up getting him to buff it up for me, but is that normal or was I putting it on too hard???? what products do you use to apply, I use a little sponge that had a plastic handle to apply it with and a cotton cloth to rub it off...

slugline · September 2001

The sidewall marking is intended as a do-not-exceed-under-any-circumstances number. The actual pressure you should run is whatever Toyota recommends. Even the tire manufacturers will defer to the carmarkers on this issue.

About the only time you really need to consider putting in more pressure is if you are hauling a much-higher-than-ordinary load, which is usually an issue for pickup trucks, vans and SUVs, but not the ECHO.

In a low-speed off-roading situation, you may want to underinflate by several psi or so to maximize the area of the tire contact patch, and thus, traction. Once again, this is usually not an issue in the ECHO.

Just get 32 psi in there and don't worry about it.

majorthomecho · September 2001

I am still waiting for some suggestions on bug remover for use on a black sand pearl Echo.

Thanks.

rajmoran · September 2001

...for your insightful reply.

The motivation behind my question was a desire to attain the highest fuel mileage possible along with a vague knowledge of the fact that tire pressure plays a huge role in fuel economy. On my recent trip I got some very good mileage, and it came as I started the trip by filling the tires up to 41psi (cold) all around. The handling seemed slightly improved as well, though that might be psychological. I just wondered if I was doing anything dangerous or counter-productive by putting that much air in there.

dham2 · September 2001

My Echo actually runs colder here in Phoenix since the dealer REDUCED the charge.

llemmon · September 2001

Running 41 P S I will probably give you slightly better gas mileage but you will have a rougher ride and your tires well wear out faster. Most of the wear well be on the center of the tire. Check your tires every week or every two weeks when the tires are cold and the air pressure according to the manual and life will be great.

kaz6 · September 2001

The swirl marks are easily removed with a dry/damp cloth followed by a dry towel. For those of you just starting out using it, make sure to reapply a month after the initial application as the directions say to. You will find that the finish on your car will get a very wet look. I apply mine every other month as my car is dark(electric green)and is parked outside most of the time. A good way to make the protection last longer is to use the 'spray wax' at the car wash or use Turtle Wax Ultra(?)-(it's blue and white and you need to shake it to activate it) My mom's car can go 6 months between applications as her's is garaged.
I've been using NuFinish for 10 years now and have never been disappointed!

kneisl1 · September 2001

You might try and contact NuFinish about your experiences waxing a black car with their product. They would know more than me since Ive never waxed a black car.
The psi of your tires is nothing to fool around with. Definately inflate them to the value shown in the owners manual or decal on the car. I suspect all this flap about the tires on the Ford Explorer is due at least in part to people not running the correct pressure in their tires. (pressure gets too low and tire heats up, causing dammage to the tire which eventually throws its tread) Dont think this problem is only the exclusive property of the Explorer! Tires have been throwing their treads for years and in all probability the cause is owner neglect of the tire pressures. (and company failure to come up with a way to ensure proper psi) On my motorcycle I check the pressure EACH TIME I ride it because if the psi gets low in ONE tire (maybe by picking up a nail) it drastically effects the way the bike steers...youlll have an accident for sure if that psi gets low and you dont realize it. The same thing on a lesser scale can also affect your car (even the ECHO). You pick up a nail in one tire, the pressure drops and you car doesnt handle the same. In bad weather or trying to avoid an accident this could cause you to lose control.

rajmoran · September 2001

I'm pretty familiar with the magic of tire pressure, but more from a motorcycle racer's viewpoint than from that of a car owner/commuter.
Historically (and I know this is bad), I've not paid much attention to the tire pressure in the various cars I've owned over the years. My interest has been triggered by ownership of a car like the ECHO, however, since fuel economy is one of the main reasons I bought it. I just found it strange that the difference between the manual and what was marked on the tire was so great (32psi vs. 44psi). Also, the way the manual was worded didn't leave me much faith that much attention was paid to the various brands and types of tires with which the ECHO might come equipped. It just read like a lot of boilerplate, to me.

Last week, on my trip to Hilton Head, when I had 41psi all around, the handling seemed to be better and the ride didn't seem harsh to me at all. The mileage was terrific considering the speeds (near 80 mph on RT 95, consistently) and the fact that the AC was on the whole way. I visually inspected the tires when I got home and nothing seemed amiss (no cuts or bulges, etc.)so I wondered if I could safely keep them inflated to those pressures with no ill effects.

cwo4 · September 2001

It seems to me that 41 psi at high speeds and long duration would heat up to a higher pressure than the 44 max stated on the tires. It also seems to me to be very dangerous running any tire at or near its max rating. The ECHO book says 32. That's where I stay and still get 40 mpg. Thats my 2 cents.

pulgo · September 2001

I have carefully checked the wear of the tires on my Echo and after 14600 miles (at 35 PSI) and 1 tire rotation. I can happily report that no abnormal wear is ocurring due to overinflation. In fact, up to this day there is no measurable wear at all. The brand of the tires: Michelin MX4.
Average mileage so far is 43.47 (automatic, 40% city, 60% highway).

slugline · September 2001

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/pressure.htm

For those really interested in pressure accuracy, check out this short Town Hall discussion on Tire Gauges.

mbohun · September 2001

Majorthomecho try this link and ask Meguiar's for an answer.

http://www.meguiars.com/CarRx.cfm

In addition, I also use Meguiar's Gold Class clear coat liquid car wax and Meguiar's trim Detailer for black plastic and rubber trim...they both work great. I've also used NuFinish on my other Toyota's with great success. I like both products.

majorthomecho · September 2001

After going to my mail box, I noticed that someone had brushed against my car's bumper. No damage was done in terms of a dent, but a streak of blue paint was left.

Anyone have any tips for getting the blue paint off, but leaving the finish of my car intact?

kaz6 · September 2001

I've had success with NuFinish(not an ad!);)
My previous car was white and somebody left a good bit of their bumper on mine. I was able to remove it all by slathering the polish on the mark and rubbing very hard.
Rubbing compound would work too I suppose...

kneisl1 · September 2001

I dont think running 41 psi would necessarily dammage the tires, but at least in theory it should make the center of the tire wear out faster than the outer edges. I know people who ride on gravel roads believe if they underinflate their tires this reduces the chance of a puncture flat. (on the balloon theory...ie a less inflated baloon is less likely to pop than an overinflated one) But when the tires wear out let us know how far they went.

majorthomecho · September 2001

Thanks for the quick response and advice. Before I read the suggestions I went to the car wash this morning. I won't go into details, but the blue paint is now off my car.

But if it happens again, I will know another way of dealing with it.

dudleyr · September 2001

41 psi is fine.

The Toyota reccomended number is a compromise for the ride handling and economy. If you are not worried about the ride, or don't notice the difference then 41 is fine. Tires actually run cooler at higher pressures, and are less likely to burst not more likely. This is because there is less flex/friction in the tire which is what heats it up.

41 psi will also handle better especially with a high profile tire. The higher pressure keeps the tire from rolling over onto its edge as you go around corners - so it acts more like a low profile tire. Try this - drop the pressure down to about 20 and go around a corner the tires will squeel like mad, raise it back up and they will be fine.

Yes the tire may wear slightly more in the center, but will probably last just as long, or longer because a cooler running tire (see above) does not wear as fast.

The downsides include slightly harsher ride, and more sensitivity to poor balancing. If a tire is not balanced very well you may feel a vibration in the wheel that would be dulled by lower pressure in the tires.

sonatafan · September 2001

In an earlier post someone mentioned if you fill the tires to the 44psi max listed on the sidewall you may run the risk of a blowout when the tires heat up and the pressure exceeds that.

I just want to clarify that the 44psi listed is in fact COLD tire pressure and the tires are DESIGNED to heat up from that point. It takes a heck of a lot more than 44psi to blowout a tire.

Like 80psi at 120mph, or a nail, or a police "stop strip"......

kaz6 · September 2001

I usually run my tires at max psi but with the Echo, I run it at 32 because of the car's light weight. You'll find that braking might take longer due to bias to locking.

mbohun · September 2001

I too had a paint scrape incident, but this was many years ago on my new gold Celica. A small RV driven by a "driver's training instructor" was parked next to me in a common apartment parking area. The instructor backed out and with the RV's White bumper and took out the left side of my Celica's mirror and placed a two foot dent in the door with white paint marks. A neighbor saw the event, but the RV driver denied he did this! Police took paint samples from both vehicles and made an exact match. The Police took care of my uncooperative driving trainer who received a new lesson in honesty and I received payment from his insurance company for damage repairs.

kaz6 · September 2001

Here we go again...Edmund's has an article on the top fuel efficiency cars on the market. They slammed the Echo for not being an easy car to drive on the highway. So not true. I've done a lot of long distance drives through mountains and flatlands at speeds averaging 80mph. My Echo has been remarkably quiet with an absence of wind and engine noise AND returning mpg in the high 30's!!! The seats provide excellent support(much better than my old ZX-2's "sport" seats) and the visibility is excellent. I have yet to have people ride with me that aren't impressed with the room and ride quality of my Echo.
Anyone considering an Echo needs to test one first before taking the biased views of sources like Edmunds.
And by the way; because of the lack of low-end torque, the Echo is not the easiest in the stoplight grand prix. The sweet spot comes after 3rd gear above 40mph...this bugger really cooks then!

slugline · September 2001

Maybe I'm just cynical, but I get suspicious when any review has nothing bad to say about a product. If I see nothing but good things said, I peek under the table to see how much cash is being passed.

Wind gusts DO affect this tall and light car more adversely than lower and heavier cars and trucks -- I've witnessed this myself. Of course, if the driver is reasonably alert, it's not a big deal and shouldn't "sway" anyone from buying an ECHO if it otherwise fits their shopping criteria. Just consider it another reason to put that cell phone away.

Now, kaz6, while you dwelt upon what you perceived as Edmunds "slam" on the ECHO's highway handling, I noticed comments like "the Echo will probably last forever," "through a crowded city, the Echo is ideal," and "clear winner of the subcompact class." Now, maybe if Toyota would just consider increasing its bribes, maybe Edmunds will do better about ignoring anything negative it turns up in the future.

rajmoran · September 2001

...most of what the Edmunds nerds say about the ECHO. However, I get kind of annoyed when they're so busy being snide that they dork up the facts. Consider this, from the recent top ten mileage fluff piece:

"Even if you option this car with everything, you'll be rolling down your own windows and manually adjusting your own mirrors."

The ECHO comes with "remote" mirror adjusters. They are indeed manually operated but do not require the driver to roll down his window. A little less sarcasm, Edmunds punkin'heads, and a little more research and we'll all be doing fine...

majorthomecho · September 2001

Actually Edmunds' complaint was about two things. Lack of power windows and having to manually adjust your mirrors. It is badly worded and wrong. If you option your Echo with "everything", you do not have to roll down your own windows. Power windows is part of upgrade package #3.

I take the most exception to their complaint about highway driving in high winds. I do not feel that I am in danger whenever I do that.

kaz6 · September 2001

I notice that you don't own an Echo...maybe if you did you'd understand why some of us in this group get upset when reading yet another biased review.
The Echo is not perfect but seems to garner undue criticism for things that are fairly common for the class.
As you said though, I'll focus on the positive! Translation:I don't read Edmund's reviews anymore!

fangio2 · September 2001

in Edmunds when discussing wording or other matters relating to linguistics know what I mean LOL

majorthomecho · September 2001

I read the reviews, but when it runs counter to what I know to be true, I take the review with a grain of salt.

I have written a letter to the editor pointing out the error in Ms. Riches' article.

FWIW, the notes at the bottom indicate that the Mirage coupe is going bye bye after the 2001 model year, but Motor Trend reports that the coupe will continue into the 2002 model year as a 2002. Given that Edmunds has a shorter lead time, I have asked them for a clarification.

majorthomecho · September 2001

I finally got around to writing a response to Christian Wardlaw's response about my June 2001 letter to the editor.

You know it is funny, but if Edmunds (and its editors) are so concerned about the safety of small cars, you would think they would include a warning about becoming spam in every small car review.

If you click on the "compare with other vehicles" when looking at the Echo's information, you get a table with information for the Daewoo Lanos, the Hyundai Accent, and the Kia Rio. If you check out their reviews, only the Hyundai Accent has any warning about the "dangers" of small cars and it is no where near as severe as what was printed in the Echo review.

Edmunds claims to be unbiased. Sounds like they are biased against the Echo.

Toyota Echo

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