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Toyota Echo

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Comments

  • krakatokrakato Member Posts: 30
    I have a 2000 automatic 4 door ECHO and absolutely LOVE it! I've only got 8600 miles on it because it's a commuting car and I live fairly close to work. After I'd owned it less than a month, I was hit in the left rear door in a multi-car collision caused by an irresponsible driver in a Nissan. It was in the bodyshop for over a month. All that is background -- although I doubt it is relevant to the problem I'm having -- my very FIRST with this wonderful car!

    Here's what happens. First thing in the morning when I start the car up all is well. The blue "cool engine light" is still on as I back out of the driveway and drive down one block -- everything operates as normal. But after stopping at the corner and beginning to turn right, when I press the pedal to accelerate through the turn, there is a significant pause with little engine power and I have to pump the accelerator to get the car through the turn and accelerating normally again. It seems to happen primarily when I am making a turn -- although once I had trouble getting full power after stopping at a stop sign and then going straight. This only happens after the car has been sitting overnight or for a long time and the blue cool engine light goes on when I start it up.

    Has anything like this happened to anyone else in your ECHO? I'm going to take it into the dealer to check it out, but wondered if anyone on this great board has any ideas or suggestions about what is going on?

    Thanks!
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I would tell the dealer about it. Leave the car with them overnight, then go yourself in the morning and drive the car with a rep. It might be a throttle position sensor or something like that.
  • sluglineslugline Member Posts: 391
    The expected feature set in a new car is higher than it has ever been. Many "value-priced" models roll off the lots with gizmos that were only expected in luxury cars not too long ago, e.g. air bags, remote entry, etc. I think some people looking over the ECHO notice the lack of standard power locks and suddenly think they are in a car designed for 1982, not 2002. There are folks who don't expect features like these in their cars (some of them are nice posters here), but I really think it will never be possible for the ECHO to be a strong seller with this price/feature structure.

    The feature-laden competition isn't even just limited to cars like the Ford Focus or Kia Rio. Look at the recently introduced '03 Toyota Corolla. In CE trim, the Corolla is roughly $2000-$3000 more according to Edmunds TMV. However, that base Corolla includes air conditioning (with micron filtration), power mirrors, power steering, tachometer, clock, external temp gauge, and CD player. You'll also get the same hallmark quality and reliability of Toyota in a larger car that gets virtually the same fuel economy, at least with the automatic transmission. And isn't the optional cruise control nice for road-trippin'?

    When it comes to buying a new car, I think the typical American is OK with spending the extra cash for those benefits. As it stands, the ECHO is a good fit for the mission of economical commuting within dense urban areas. The size of that niche is evidenced by the sales figures.
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    I like my Echo because it is a model of efficiency - outstanding gas mileage, incredibly efficienty use of space, comfortable and quiet, and cheap to maintain. On top of that, it out-accelerates and out-handles the 1960's sports car my college roommate had, and sure is a lot safer and quieter than the (non-airconditioned) Beetle I had back then. Just because the "bar" has been raised so high these days, by cars like the Miata, Celica, Z3, it is easy to forget just how good the Toyota Echo is compared with the choices of the the last 50 years of motoring. This car is a lot closer to what the original Mini was, in function and market aim, than the new Mini, and a lot cheaper.

    The problem is, current drivers like monster trucks (which they replicate with Monster SUV's) more than sportscars, and most of the rest want more prestigious vehicles. That leaves so-called "economy car" drivers as the likely market choice, and they "upgrade" to Corollas and Civics....

    Hasn't anyone checked out what European drivers have to choose from? The "stock" US version of the Echo is closer to the "high performance" Yaris over there, than to the "commuter" Yaris.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I kind of understand what "slugline" was saying about the equipment levels. I think the Echo is the only car out there that doesn't have power steering or a clock standard. I think they should at least make these features, as well as a CD player, standard. Also, remote mirrors would be cool as well.

    Alot of people need economical cars now, but they are willing to pay more to have the luxuries (power accessories, remote entry, etc.) that used to only come on bigger cars. Also, more small cars have these features as well. I think it would be a smart move to make at least some of this stuff standard-fare.

    As far as styling, I don't think they should change a thing. I like the Echo myself, and would have bought one except that it doesn't have enough leg room for me to sit comfortably in. The styling is unique, and that's cool in a world of mostly cookie-cutter designs.

    And if you ask me, the new Corolla's tires look like they are too small or something. They make the car look funny. The Echo is cool though.
  • echo01echo01 Member Posts: 19
    After almost a year of owning my Echo, I finally got two small rock chips on the hood. So I went out and bought the Toyota touch-up paint and painted over them.

    And... I don't think I did a very good job: the brush that comes with the touch-up paint is just a little too big for these small chips. I covered the area where the paint had chipped off, but ended up overlapping the undamaged paint too.

    I've heard of these "paint pens" also - does anyone have any experience touching things up using them? Are they well suited to touching up small chips and avoiding applying an excess of paint? Or, is touching up rock chips just a matter of more practice, or is there maybe some kind of buffing that should be done after the touch-up?

    Thanks for any advice.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    Yes.

    And it looks like they've learned the lesson.

    Look what is coming to your freindly "TOY" dealership: (it's not funny anymore)


    http://www.thehollywoodextra.com/avensis/avensis.html

  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    Just checked the Toyota site.
    These things are ASSTEK ugly:

    http://www.scion.com/see/index.html
  • sluglineslugline Member Posts: 391
    Hey echo01, you got your touchup paint from a dealership, right? How much did it cost? I need to pick up a bottle of Black Sand Pearl for the SO's ECHO -- the front of the hood has been taking quite a beating.
  • geegee1958geegee1958 Member Posts: 29
    and echo01 is right, the brush is not so good at doing small chips. My car is alpine silver, and I also have several rock chips, and I touched them up with the paint from the dealer.
  • sluglineslugline Member Posts: 391
    On another non-Edmunds forum, I read that a toothpick makes an ideal tool for touching up small spots of chipped paint. . . .
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I small artists' brush from an arts and crafts store also works pretty well too. The brushes with the touch-up paints are frequently too big for little chips, so you improvise. :)
  • echo01echo01 Member Posts: 19
    I paid $5.99 plus tax for my Toyota touch-up paint. They also had the touch-up paint pens there, but not in my color (red) - I don't know what their price is.

    I will say that the paint matches exactly, and at this rate, the little tube of paint will last me for years. I think the brush that comes with it is more useful for big scrapes and dings; I'll get a smaller brush for rock chips.
  • lynnann1lynnann1 Member Posts: 85
    the bbX looks like a Fisher Price toy -- the ccX isn't as bad - maybe something one could possibly grow to sorta kinda like given time....
  • wrgrahamwrgraham Member Posts: 112
    I really enjoyed reading the bunch of recent comments about the Echo's overall value and appeal, or lack thereof. Seems to me that the comments were well thought out. I just want to also point out that I was set to buy a Corolla in 2000 when I bought my Echo. Or a Civic, alternatively. But my daughter and my wife wouldnt have any part of those two because there wasnt room enough in the back seat. And they were dead right. So it was Accord or Camry versus the Echo. With the great $$ savings from buying an Echo we made the choice and spent some of the savings on things that we also really wanted at that time. We all love the Echo now. What a good outcome! (Maybe a Mazda Protege would have been a good alternative. Unfortunately Mazda dealers and salespeople are terrible around here.)
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    The Echo has not succeeded well in the marketplace for several reasons. The first is styling-it just looks cheap and ugly to most people. Styling does sell cars. The second was the center of dash mounted speedometer. I don't care how much you try to justify that location, people view it as just too strange. The above reactions were what mine were the first time I saw it as a new model at an auto show. My first impression was, "Boy, Toyota really screwed up with this car, it will not be a winner in the marketplace." Guess I was pretty much right, huh?
  • majorthomechomajorthomecho Member Posts: 1,331
    The center mounted speedo sure doesn't seem to be hurting the sales of the Mini.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    Since styling is purely opinion of buyer, then one car company can't please everyone. If they could, there wouldn't be so many cars to choose from.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    Well,I wouldn't buy a mini either, as I prefer not to overpay for a tiny vehicle. However the mini is being marketed as a nostalgia revival, just like the new Beetle. It will likely create a stir among a small audience, as has the Beetle, but will likely never generate large numbers of customers. The Echo, on the other hand is up against a lot of small economy cars-Corolla,Civic,Focus, etc etc..... As such, it is not going to succeed in penetrating this more mainstream market.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    Well, Toyota must have missed their expected market size on this one, otherwise they wouldn't be discontinuing the model.
  • mralanmralan Member Posts: 174
    What's going to replace the Echo? The Yaris?
  • mazdaprofourmazdaprofour Member Posts: 202
    Hello all, how hard is it getting financing through toyota after a bankruptcy? I was looking at getting a echo in a few months (3-4) and was not sure. I would want the basic 4 door echo with ac and auto and would put down around 2,000. Another person told me that they would not sell you that car unless you get a bunch of extras since the dealer will have to discount the car due to the bankruptcy. The same person told me that I would be looking at a 600.00 a month payment! this person is someone that was in another chat forum here and claimed to work for toyota.
  • babyboomerbabyboomer Member Posts: 205
    Toyota has not made any announcement that the Echo will be discontinued. My question is, if they do decide to stop Echo production, would they make an announcement?
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    I have discovered that badgerfan is an Edmunds employee, and its possible that it is he who wrote the origional Edmunds evaluation of the ECHO. He has also posted under different names other negitive commants about ECHO.
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    If Badgerfan is an Edmund's employee AND an Echo owner, he is entitled to his opinion. You pay for one, you can diss it. But if he is JUST an Edmunds employee, he should disclose it - what right does he have to diss the car in a forum for owners and fans? After all, Edmunds already officially reviewed the car. If he wants to add to that in the forum, while disclosing his affiliation and exposure to the car, that's his right - but not anonymously posting.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    I am not an Edmund's employee, nor have I ever posted under any other name but Badgerfan, nor have I ever dissed anyone else's car choice, except when I think others are being stupid with their money.

    I have nothing against Echos at all. I do not own one, however you will notice I did not diss the Echo, I just commented with two reason's I think it is not selling as much as Toyota had hoped. Those two reasons are looks and speedometer location.

    I am sure Echo is a nice little car, but still, not appealing to the vast majority of the compact car market. The sales figures bear me out.

    I promise never to comment in the Echo area again. Apparently another attribute of some Echo owners is they have a very thin skin. Get a life, you guys!
  • sluglineslugline Member Posts: 391
    All I can tell you is keep shopping around for financing. Are signs pointing towards your financial "ship" being righted in the coming years? If so, you might attempt to persuade someone with better credit to be a co-signer on your loan. Just keep in mind that this person will be doing you a BIG favor. Good luck.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    The Yaris is a no-go, because TRD tried to persuage TMC to bring it the the US in 2001.
  • harlekharlek Member Posts: 8
    I own an Echo and read alot about cars. 2 things about the Echo

    1 I do not believe there is a car made that can match both the Echos high MPG and low 0 - 60 acceleration times (low 8 seconds. Does anyone know of such a car.

    2 I completely prefer the center placement of the speedo. Liked it from day one and hate to think that someday I will lose that when I trade cars!
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I really like the Echo as well. I just wish there was a little tiny bit more leg room on the driver's side. I am 6'3 with a size 14DD foot, and I have trouble working the pedais without my ankles hurting. I rented an Echo for one day, and really was surprised by the way it drove. It felt totally stable all the way up to 80mph.
  • sluglineslugline Member Posts: 391
    It wasn't that long ago that this forum was infested with "flame-bait" relating to the ECHO's looks. That led to the "thin skin" you are seeing now. FWIW, I think that anyone who actually drives the car will quickly realize that the center-mounted gauges are not a significant issue at all.

    I have no doubt that ECHO has been a disappointment for Toyota saleswise. Upon it's introduction to North America, Toyota expected to sell 60K units/year. Here's the tally so far:

    1999: 10,490 (introduction of 2000 model year)
    2000: 48,876
    2001: 42,464

    What might I do if I was the ECHO's brand manager?

    1) Shake up the lineup: Get a hatchback into the U.S. If sales of the 4-door sedan are as bad as I suspect, then I'd kill it. Let the Corolla CE be the standard bearer in the economy sedan market. An ECHO wagon could be nice as a cheaper alternative to the performance-oriented Matrix.
    2) Resolve the value issue: Expand the standard equipment list to include everything in option packages 1 and 2, and use the economies of scale to drop the would-be MSRP of those cars by $500 to $1000. Stop fooling around with the nickel-and-dime game and leave transmission and color as the only big choices for the buyer. Add cruise control as a factory option ASAP.
    3) Sharpen the marketing. Highlighting the fuel economy is fine, but the TV ad with the young guy taunting other drivers at the gas pump was lame. The commercials showing exactly how far you can road-trip a VW on one tank are more impressive.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    I am glad to see some sanity out in this Echo group.

    Well written comments.

    Sorry if I rubbed some thin skin. I just wanted to point out that you can have the best vehicle in a market and poor styling can doom it. Just look at Pontiac's Aztek. Never drove one, but from reviews I have read, it has a lot of neat feature interior wise, etc, and yet the godawful styling dooms it. GM took the same vehicle, reskinned it as a Buick Rendezvous which looks quite polished, and will probably sell quite well.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Kneisel1, if you want to pursue your *assumption*, you need to go to the "Help" link at the top (or bottom) of this page and find the Feedback Form to ask about or report your thoughts.

    Honestly, there is no need whatsoever for any Edmunds.com editor to behave in the manner you have suggested. But as I say, there is an appropriate avenue for you to pursue this.

    Posting about it here is not the right approach.

    Badgerfan, don't run off - you are welcome here.

    Pat
    Sedans Host
  • mralanmralan Member Posts: 174
    Does everyone love their Echo, or is there anyone out there who is dissatisfied?

    It sounds like a great little car.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Sorry, Pat and badgerfan, I couldnt resist. Dont take it personally. But I think both Edmunds and badgerfans comments were not comments at all. I felt there was a mean spiritedness about them which were not expressions of opinion. I thought badgerfan was provoking us. Like going into a bar with your wife and someone calls her ugly. Edmunds article about the 2000 ECHO was the worst piece of automotive reporting Ive ever read and Im not saying that because I like the ECHO. It was completely unobjective. Pat I challange you you and Edmunds to remove it from your website and rewrite it. Better yet, let ME rewrite it.
    Does anyone know the yearly sales of the Tercel in its last years?
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    Wow, pat, it's a challenge!

    kniesl, it's nice to see you throwing down the gauntlet to pat as she's a formidable opponent :), but Town Hall hosts have no control over the editors, as the editors have no control over Town Hall. Good way to keep the opinions expressed in each division totally separate.

    Now, if you'd like to apply for a position on the editorial staff, be our guest :)

    kirstie_h
    Roving Host
    Edmunds.com

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    You may find this hard to believe, but until now I had not even looked at the Edmunds Echo reviews. Now that I have, they were pretty harsh. But they do have some valid points. Mainly that by the time you load up an Echo to be similar equipped, why not buy a Corolla or other slightly larger compact car for the same price?

    All auto manufacturers(except maybe the Koreans right now) have a hard time keeping the low end economy cars inexpensive. After all, the parts content and manufacturing steps are not all that different whether you are building an Echo or a Lexus. Obviously, the Lexus gives them a lot more profit per vehicle. Thus you get price compression on the low end vehicles.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Yes they did and the one I found myself most in agreement with was: by the time you add various options the car becomes much more expensive. Not that I wanted options, I wanted a base car without ac and powersteering, but this was impossible for my local dealer to get. (at least he said it was impossible) But if they DID make a base ECHO for $10k it would be a huge value.
    Also, they pointed out that a Honda Civic gets good resale value whereas the ECHO's resale value was an unknown. And with ECHO's funky looks that could definately be a problem.
    I thought I was going to buy a Civic, I always wanted one. But the Civic I knew was the 1988 version which is much smaller. The 2001 Civic I found to be a very heavy car for its 1.7 liter engine. It seemed sluggish. And it was not easy for me getting into and out of. I was a little in shock when I realized "Im not going to buy this car!"
    I think where Edmunds went wrong is that they did not evaluate the ECHO as a small car...just as a bizarre looking vehicle. Almost no other review that I read did that. They almost all saw beyond the looks and said hey, if you want a small car this ones pretty neat.
    Another not often mentioned thing about the ECHO. Cars like the Prius and new battery assisted Civic are VERY expensive, and with those batteries to replace they will be expensive in upkeep. The ECHO gets 80% of the mileage they do and is half the cost.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I have always read that small cars make manufacturers lose money on every one they sell. The only reason they do sell them is to keep under the CAFE standards, so they don't really make money off of them.

    This makes me wonder how GM is staying alive, giving $3000 rebates on Cavaliers/Sunfires, and Dodge with their $2000 rebates on Neons.
  • janbeejanbee Member Posts: 127
    I love my 2000 ECHO, although I wish their were more aftermarket accessories for it. For me when it was time to buy a car, I had my mind set on the Civic (which I already owned at the time)and the Corolla. When I went to the Toyota dealership I fell in love with the cute and "quirky" looks of the ECHO. Yes I could have gotten a Corolla for only hundreds more but it seemed to "family-ish" to me and at 26 years old, its a look I wasnt ready for :)
  • thooverthoover Member Posts: 49
    I agree 100% with those who love the ECHO. Fun to drive, easy on gas, zero (as in 0) problems, and silly me I love the way it looks, inside and out. The word that comes to me is integrety.

    I am sort of sad that more people don't "get it", but I am also used to it now.

    My 4door automatic is now sitting at 44.7MPG average over the last 5 tanks, the highest yet! So at 41K+ miles, it seems to be getting better and better? The total MPG over the last entire year is 41.2 MPG.

    If they do discontinue these (pray no), I for one will sure miss them. Maybe I would go out and trade for the *last one*, to start the odo back at 0000's so I could break in a new one all over.
  • echo01echo01 Member Posts: 19
    It's been about a year since I got my 2001 Echo and with about 10,000 miles, I still really like it; there have been no significant problems.

    I considered buying also the Civic, Saturn SC1 and Mitsubishi Mirage. The Corolla I did not consider because I wanted a 2-door car, and also the Corolla does not have as much room for the driver as the Echo. I've never regretted choosing the Echo over all of these, and I haven't in the meantime learned of any cars I wish I'd bought instead. The Echo was definitely the right car for me.

    Mileage isn't an issue, but it has been 37 to 45 mpg, depending on the season and the kind of driving. The car has plenty of power, is comfortable for me, even for long trips, quiet for a small car, handles well and is fun to drive.

    My only minor complaint is that the car seems to be a bit susceptible to developing mild interior rattles. One I had fixed under warranty. I have two now that sort of come-and-go, so they're not repeatable enough to be diagnosed, and they are as yet only minor annoyances.

    And yes, I really like the way it looks!
  • aeroterremeraeroterremer Member Posts: 79
    It's love! :)
  • lynnann1lynnann1 Member Posts: 85
    I wanted one as much for it's quirky looks and unusual interior - hey my family had Studebakers, my Dad bought a Pacer (can you say goldfish bowl?), it must be hereditary -- as for its cost and economy. We looked at the Focus (you wouldn't believe what my bro in law calls them, the Focus that is - take the "o" and change it to another vowel - I'll let you figure it out, btw he doesn't like the ECHO either.) My husband wanted the Focus, but since we were buying a car for me to drive, I got my way. He now loves my little car too and is glad of the decision we made.

    The few times I have been without my car I really missed it. I drove a Saturn will my Echo was being repaired as a result of a rear-end collision (I wasn't hurt) and it took me a week and a half to get used to the Saturn. I was really glad to get my Echo back.

    I would hate to see the Echo discontinued.
  • mdrewmdrew Member Posts: 32
    Although I'm an ecstatic Echo-owner, I think the Focus is a cool car and not really much different in design (never driven one). When I was looking around in 2000 a friend really pushed the Focus, also new at the time. For me it came down to the overall reliability of a Ford versus a Toyota--no contest. In retrospect I was right (again!). My girlfriend at the time and I were driving her 90 Corolla that to this day has not had one problem. The weirder look of the Echo was also a plus the first time I saw one on the street. Then the high seating position sealed the deal...
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    Yes, you were right.
    At the same time I would like to add that if Ford would follow Toyota's business model and bring the European made Focus (better parts - very reliable) to the US (as Toyota did and still do with the japanese built Echo) the reliability scores wouldn't not be as far apart as they stand for now (for the '00 model in particular).
  • sluglineslugline Member Posts: 391
    We discovered a piece of the bumper hanging down from the ECHO the other day. At first I was worried that it was damage from a collision, but a closer look revealed that it was actually a snap-off panel in the bumper, located in the lower opening of the bumper fascia on the driver's side. It had come loose and was then attached only by a thin plastic tether. When I looked in the hole normally covered by the panel, I could see a threaded tube, as if it was intended to receive a large bolt of some sort.

    One of my first guesses was that it was a cutout for fog lights, but there wasn't a corresponding hole on the passenger side. Anyone have any idea what I discovered?
  • photoboyphotoboy Member Posts: 18
    I am one picky SOB and I love the Echo. I love the center mounted instrument pod; it makes it much easier to keep your eyes on the road and occasionally look over, not down, to check your speed. I love the looks; it doesn't look like everything else on the highway. I love the seating position and how easy it is to get in and out. And as for why it hasn't been a huge success in the American marketplace? — We Americans just don't get it. We want big. We want luxury. We have very, very cheap petrol. ... and Toyota's marketing department stinks to high heaven. They have not even attempted to market this vehicle and they made matters worse by not optioning out the car to compete head on with the competition. I hope they keep the car in production and market to mature adults to which is it very suitable. Also, add exterior mirror controls, intermittent wipers and CD standard. Enough said!
  • bob365bob365 Member Posts: 3
    To Slugline's message #3146,

    The "secret" panel in the front bumper is for towing.

    If you look in the trunk at the panel atop the spare tire, you will see a lug wrench, a cranking handle for the jack, and a big black bolt looking thing with an eyelet on the end. This bolt screws into the secret panel and is used to tow the car (for emergencies only, I presume).
  • sluglineslugline Member Posts: 391
    Yeah, emergencies only -- I'd rather not tow a car any significant distance using a single tow-point way off-center like that. I bet that bolt is primarily the front tie-down point for the boat trip over from Japan, and maybe for the ride to the dealership, too. I'll have to remember to take a look for a tie-down somewhere on the rear. (I'm just the curious type!)
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