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Here's what happens. First thing in the morning when I start the car up all is well. The blue "cool engine light" is still on as I back out of the driveway and drive down one block -- everything operates as normal. But after stopping at the corner and beginning to turn right, when I press the pedal to accelerate through the turn, there is a significant pause with little engine power and I have to pump the accelerator to get the car through the turn and accelerating normally again. It seems to happen primarily when I am making a turn -- although once I had trouble getting full power after stopping at a stop sign and then going straight. This only happens after the car has been sitting overnight or for a long time and the blue cool engine light goes on when I start it up.
Has anything like this happened to anyone else in your ECHO? I'm going to take it into the dealer to check it out, but wondered if anyone on this great board has any ideas or suggestions about what is going on?
Thanks!
The feature-laden competition isn't even just limited to cars like the Ford Focus or Kia Rio. Look at the recently introduced '03 Toyota Corolla. In CE trim, the Corolla is roughly $2000-$3000 more according to Edmunds TMV. However, that base Corolla includes air conditioning (with micron filtration), power mirrors, power steering, tachometer, clock, external temp gauge, and CD player. You'll also get the same hallmark quality and reliability of Toyota in a larger car that gets virtually the same fuel economy, at least with the automatic transmission. And isn't the optional cruise control nice for road-trippin'?
When it comes to buying a new car, I think the typical American is OK with spending the extra cash for those benefits. As it stands, the ECHO is a good fit for the mission of economical commuting within dense urban areas. The size of that niche is evidenced by the sales figures.
The problem is, current drivers like monster trucks (which they replicate with Monster SUV's) more than sportscars, and most of the rest want more prestigious vehicles. That leaves so-called "economy car" drivers as the likely market choice, and they "upgrade" to Corollas and Civics....
Hasn't anyone checked out what European drivers have to choose from? The "stock" US version of the Echo is closer to the "high performance" Yaris over there, than to the "commuter" Yaris.
Alot of people need economical cars now, but they are willing to pay more to have the luxuries (power accessories, remote entry, etc.) that used to only come on bigger cars. Also, more small cars have these features as well. I think it would be a smart move to make at least some of this stuff standard-fare.
As far as styling, I don't think they should change a thing. I like the Echo myself, and would have bought one except that it doesn't have enough leg room for me to sit comfortably in. The styling is unique, and that's cool in a world of mostly cookie-cutter designs.
And if you ask me, the new Corolla's tires look like they are too small or something. They make the car look funny. The Echo is cool though.
And... I don't think I did a very good job: the brush that comes with the touch-up paint is just a little too big for these small chips. I covered the area where the paint had chipped off, but ended up overlapping the undamaged paint too.
I've heard of these "paint pens" also - does anyone have any experience touching things up using them? Are they well suited to touching up small chips and avoiding applying an excess of paint? Or, is touching up rock chips just a matter of more practice, or is there maybe some kind of buffing that should be done after the touch-up?
Thanks for any advice.
And it looks like they've learned the lesson.
Look what is coming to your freindly "TOY" dealership: (it's not funny anymore)
http://www.thehollywoodextra.com/avensis/avensis.html
These things are ASSTEK ugly:
http://www.scion.com/see/index.html
I will say that the paint matches exactly, and at this rate, the little tube of paint will last me for years. I think the brush that comes with it is more useful for big scrapes and dings; I'll get a smaller brush for rock chips.
I have nothing against Echos at all. I do not own one, however you will notice I did not diss the Echo, I just commented with two reason's I think it is not selling as much as Toyota had hoped. Those two reasons are looks and speedometer location.
I am sure Echo is a nice little car, but still, not appealing to the vast majority of the compact car market. The sales figures bear me out.
I promise never to comment in the Echo area again. Apparently another attribute of some Echo owners is they have a very thin skin. Get a life, you guys!
1 I do not believe there is a car made that can match both the Echos high MPG and low 0 - 60 acceleration times (low 8 seconds. Does anyone know of such a car.
2 I completely prefer the center placement of the speedo. Liked it from day one and hate to think that someday I will lose that when I trade cars!
I have no doubt that ECHO has been a disappointment for Toyota saleswise. Upon it's introduction to North America, Toyota expected to sell 60K units/year. Here's the tally so far:
1999: 10,490 (introduction of 2000 model year)
2000: 48,876
2001: 42,464
What might I do if I was the ECHO's brand manager?
1) Shake up the lineup: Get a hatchback into the U.S. If sales of the 4-door sedan are as bad as I suspect, then I'd kill it. Let the Corolla CE be the standard bearer in the economy sedan market. An ECHO wagon could be nice as a cheaper alternative to the performance-oriented Matrix.
2) Resolve the value issue: Expand the standard equipment list to include everything in option packages 1 and 2, and use the economies of scale to drop the would-be MSRP of those cars by $500 to $1000. Stop fooling around with the nickel-and-dime game and leave transmission and color as the only big choices for the buyer. Add cruise control as a factory option ASAP.
3) Sharpen the marketing. Highlighting the fuel economy is fine, but the TV ad with the young guy taunting other drivers at the gas pump was lame. The commercials showing exactly how far you can road-trip a VW on one tank are more impressive.
Well written comments.
Sorry if I rubbed some thin skin. I just wanted to point out that you can have the best vehicle in a market and poor styling can doom it. Just look at Pontiac's Aztek. Never drove one, but from reviews I have read, it has a lot of neat feature interior wise, etc, and yet the godawful styling dooms it. GM took the same vehicle, reskinned it as a Buick Rendezvous which looks quite polished, and will probably sell quite well.
Honestly, there is no need whatsoever for any Edmunds.com editor to behave in the manner you have suggested. But as I say, there is an appropriate avenue for you to pursue this.
Posting about it here is not the right approach.
Badgerfan, don't run off - you are welcome here.
Pat
Sedans Host
It sounds like a great little car.
Does anyone know the yearly sales of the Tercel in its last years?
kniesl, it's nice to see you throwing down the gauntlet to pat as she's a formidable opponent , but Town Hall hosts have no control over the editors, as the editors have no control over Town Hall. Good way to keep the opinions expressed in each division totally separate.
Now, if you'd like to apply for a position on the editorial staff, be our guest
kirstie_h
Roving Host
Edmunds.com
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
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All auto manufacturers(except maybe the Koreans right now) have a hard time keeping the low end economy cars inexpensive. After all, the parts content and manufacturing steps are not all that different whether you are building an Echo or a Lexus. Obviously, the Lexus gives them a lot more profit per vehicle. Thus you get price compression on the low end vehicles.
Also, they pointed out that a Honda Civic gets good resale value whereas the ECHO's resale value was an unknown. And with ECHO's funky looks that could definately be a problem.
I thought I was going to buy a Civic, I always wanted one. But the Civic I knew was the 1988 version which is much smaller. The 2001 Civic I found to be a very heavy car for its 1.7 liter engine. It seemed sluggish. And it was not easy for me getting into and out of. I was a little in shock when I realized "Im not going to buy this car!"
I think where Edmunds went wrong is that they did not evaluate the ECHO as a small car...just as a bizarre looking vehicle. Almost no other review that I read did that. They almost all saw beyond the looks and said hey, if you want a small car this ones pretty neat.
Another not often mentioned thing about the ECHO. Cars like the Prius and new battery assisted Civic are VERY expensive, and with those batteries to replace they will be expensive in upkeep. The ECHO gets 80% of the mileage they do and is half the cost.
This makes me wonder how GM is staying alive, giving $3000 rebates on Cavaliers/Sunfires, and Dodge with their $2000 rebates on Neons.
I am sort of sad that more people don't "get it", but I am also used to it now.
My 4door automatic is now sitting at 44.7MPG average over the last 5 tanks, the highest yet! So at 41K+ miles, it seems to be getting better and better? The total MPG over the last entire year is 41.2 MPG.
If they do discontinue these (pray no), I for one will sure miss them. Maybe I would go out and trade for the *last one*, to start the odo back at 0000's so I could break in a new one all over.
I considered buying also the Civic, Saturn SC1 and Mitsubishi Mirage. The Corolla I did not consider because I wanted a 2-door car, and also the Corolla does not have as much room for the driver as the Echo. I've never regretted choosing the Echo over all of these, and I haven't in the meantime learned of any cars I wish I'd bought instead. The Echo was definitely the right car for me.
Mileage isn't an issue, but it has been 37 to 45 mpg, depending on the season and the kind of driving. The car has plenty of power, is comfortable for me, even for long trips, quiet for a small car, handles well and is fun to drive.
My only minor complaint is that the car seems to be a bit susceptible to developing mild interior rattles. One I had fixed under warranty. I have two now that sort of come-and-go, so they're not repeatable enough to be diagnosed, and they are as yet only minor annoyances.
And yes, I really like the way it looks!
The few times I have been without my car I really missed it. I drove a Saturn will my Echo was being repaired as a result of a rear-end collision (I wasn't hurt) and it took me a week and a half to get used to the Saturn. I was really glad to get my Echo back.
I would hate to see the Echo discontinued.
At the same time I would like to add that if Ford would follow Toyota's business model and bring the European made Focus (better parts - very reliable) to the US (as Toyota did and still do with the japanese built Echo) the reliability scores wouldn't not be as far apart as they stand for now (for the '00 model in particular).
One of my first guesses was that it was a cutout for fog lights, but there wasn't a corresponding hole on the passenger side. Anyone have any idea what I discovered?
The "secret" panel in the front bumper is for towing.
If you look in the trunk at the panel atop the spare tire, you will see a lug wrench, a cranking handle for the jack, and a big black bolt looking thing with an eyelet on the end. This bolt screws into the secret panel and is used to tow the car (for emergencies only, I presume).