Toyota Echo

wrgraham · August 2003

Kneisl, Glad the neck surgery is behind you and recovery is at hand. I hope that collar does its job and then leaves the scene in the near future. Thanks for letting us know about the specifics.

kneisl1 · August 2003

You need that surgury to remove the pressure on a nerve caused by the interior plup protruding from a ruptured disc. I had pain in my left shoulder and into the arm with numbness and tingling in the fingers. Not bad pain, but it was getting worse slowly over about six months. My roomie in the hospital had a disc problem in his lower back. he had waited a long time before having an operation and in addition to the pain in both his legs the nerves controling his bowel movemtens and bladder were affected. However, 10 hours after the surgury he was regaining function over his bladder. At first he was going into the bottle every 15 minutes about a shotglassfull, but over time he was two hours between goings and putting a couple of inches into the bottle. Such is victory made of!

trash_can9 · August 2003

I am currently in the market for a new vehicle and am considering ECHO hatchback (Canadian model).

1. How is the Echo behave like on Highway with air conditioning on (N/V/H)?

2. Does any body have their Echo with K&N air filter and Bosch Platimun plug installed?
Any bebnefit on the low end torque ?

thx in advance.

pulgo · August 2003

I've been using the AC almost continuously for a couple of months and it cools just fine. My commute is 80% highway and for about 40 kms or 25 miles the AC is on. It is not noisier and there's plenty of engine power.

With the AC running you only notice a little slower acceleration when starting from a stop. Once up to speed I can easily keep up with everybody else.

I installed Bosch Platinum spark plugs a while ago and there is no change in power or fuel economy. In my opinion the K&N is too expensive and I decided it's not worth installing it.

weelz · August 2003

There is no difference from what I can tell.The car is no rocket but a 1.5 litre engine is not really small anymore when it comes to these type of cars.In Europe the car uses a 1.3 and they manage.This is most definately an economy car and you will know it when you drive it.Surprisingly it does at this early stage in the market turn alot of heads.People point and stare and for under 20K is a good laugh.

You are not going to win any races but you will pass alot of gas stations and get alot of curious stares and of course a few laughing skeptics

vocus · August 2003

My buddy has an 00 Echo sedan he bought used, and I feel the car is a little lightweight for the type of driving on the highway here in the US (mostly 80mph and sometimes quick merging). The car holds its own on the highway, but I prefer something that feels a tad heavier myself. Fuel economy is very good though. We have done 100 miles in his car on $4 in gas.

weelz · August 2003

with the way gas is going up down there you might all be driving trash cans soon

bradnunn · August 2003

I recently purchased a 00 Echo automatic with approx. 65K miles. Shortly after getting it home I began to notice that when the car was accelerating or going uphill between 48 and 60MPH, the vehicle would shake. The shake was coming from the front, not so noticeable through the steering wheel but more through the floor. Fortunately, it was a Toyota certified vehicle and I have carried it back in for repairs. It has now been there a week. Apparently, they have decided the problem is in the transmission/Differential. Anyone else had this problem?

vocus · August 2003

My friend's 00 automatic Echo shakes on the highway at about 60mph. If you could share what they said about your car, I would appreciate it. I thought it may be the brake rotors or tire balancing actually, but he never had it checked out.

bradnunn · August 2003

Vocus, if the shaking only happens during braking, it is probably warped rotors. If it happens at certain speeds it may be a tire out of balance or a bad tire. However, the problem I had only happened at certain speeds while accelerating. The dealer initially tried swapping wheels. When that didn't work, they tried swapping axles. There has reportedly been much discussion between the Toyota warranty folks and the dealership about who must pay. The warranty folks reportedly required that the dealer try numerous less expensive fixes before going into the transmission. I still don't have the car back. I left it a week ago Friday. They did offer a loaner but I declined. At last report they had ordered unspecified parts to rebuild the differential and said it would likely be the middle of next week before it is ready. Sounds like this is an expensive repair. However, they assured me that I would not be expected to pay. Hope your friend doesn't have the same problem. My dealer claims they have not seen this before.

kneisl1 · August 2003

How it could be the differential is beyond me. Was there crap in the trans oil filter? Much more likely to be tires, shafts, or other steering components. Try shuttting off the engine at speed and shift into neutral see if it goes away. Good luck and tell us what happens!

weelz · August 2003

I would think as kneis1 said that it would be steering components or possibley suspension.

why they would look at the tranny now makes you wonder.Is it an auto or standard trans?

bodble2 · August 2003

Looking at the Toyota.ca site you can only get a dealer-installed security system on the 5-Dr LE (not even for the 5-Dr RS). Can anyone verify is that is indeed the case?

kneisl1 · September 2003

Has anyone changed the coolant on their ECHO? I was looking at the proceedure in the service manual and it says to bleed the system after changing it. They dont show a bleeder bolt however, and I cant find one on the car. I called around to the local dealer until I got someone who would talk to me. The mechanic said you need to raise the front of the car and remove the catch tank to get the air out of the system. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

kneisl1 · September 2003

Last night in a parking lot I backed into a pole and cracked the left rear tail light. I was bummed because I know these things can cost hundreds of dollars. But a new one at Toyota was only $80! This car just keeps on coming up with things to love about it.

aeroterremer · September 2003

Echos are so easy to love! I just love seeing them wherever, whenever. So precious, each and every one.

photoboy · September 2003

My wife rented an '03 Echo 4-door automatic for four days while our FixOrRepairDaily '00 Windstar was in the shop for the umteemth time. Anyway, I drove it back to the dealership when we picked up the Deadstar and noticed that it seemed to handle better than my 2-door '01 automatic, mostly in the lack of sway department. Does anyone out there know of any improvements made to the '03s that I could retro fit to my '01? By the way, the wife wants to trade cars. The answer of course, is not only no, but hell no!

vocus · September 2003

There were some changes to the body and structure which might change the car's stability. Also, 03 saw the first availability of 15" tires too, but I doubt most rental agencies would have those on their cars.

kneisl1 · September 2003

If you crack a rear tail light as I did on my ECHO, its possible to buy just the lense assembly for $80. The entire assembly is sold for $140, which is what one dealer tried to seell me. I called around and found another dealer would sell me justthe lense. It was easy to remove the old lense and snap the new one in place myself. A cheap fix!
Im back to driving my ECHO after surgury. I found my wife had driven it 243 miles and when I filled up the tank it took 8.3 gallons. Thats 29 mpg. I myself have never gotten less than 36 mpg, so you can see how different driving techniques can produce vastly different mileages. Basically I rarely go over 45 mph whereas my wife drives like a bat out of hell.

babyboomer · September 2003

Radio would not scan on 2001 Echo. Dealer replaced it at no charge.

rjgee · September 2003

Just completed my 3rd 'almost' cross country trip in as many years...

108k and counting. No problems yet...

Changed coolant, transmission fluid, belts, plugs around 60k. 2nd set of tires. VERY regular oil changes.
Brakes were changed around 40k when it had the recall notice. ('00 model). Still over 1/2 left on the brakepads!

See you all at the next 100k!

kneisl1 · September 2003

Did you do the work yourself?

wrgraham · September 2003

I had the same issue, how to flush the coolant. I didnt find a clear drain plug either, so I just added coolant back at 50K or thereabouts, when it was somewhat low. Checked just yesterday again, now at 85K, and added not quite a pint. What I notice is that the coolant looks very clear and fine as is, so I am not feeling a need to flush it all. Hope I am not dreaming. Congrats to rjgee for passing 100k. I'll be there next spring sometime, I suppose.

wrgraham · September 2003

This is just a wondering. If one is in a situation where a collision or other accident is about to happen, are one's natural instincts correct? If you are driving then probably your best action is to just do the very best maneuvering possible. But then for passengers, or for when you as driver cannot do a thing. What with seat belts and airbags and such, I wonder what actions one should take in self defense. Might you put your head between your knees, like on a plane? Or if about to be hit from behind should you do that or something different? I have never read any good discussion of these issues, but it must be out there somewhere in cyberland.

kneisl1 · September 2003

Wrgraham there are drains at the bottom of the radiator and also a block drain on the rear of the engine (the part that faces the firewall) You need to have the car up on jackstands to see and access it. A 10 mm wrench loosens it. Its like a spigot. Its pretty hard to get to. I was thinking of just draining my radiator and refilling it once as year. That would eventually replace the coolant which as you note stays good for 5 years now or 100k miles.
As I understand it to recieve proper protection you need to have your hands on the steering wheel at 9 and 3 o clock, otherwise air bag deployment can break your arm(s) And of course wear your seatbelt. The best way to protect yourself from an accident is to drive defensively and prevent it from happening. I rather doubt there is anything you can do to protect yourself should one occur...they happen so fast. You are right to check your rearview when stopping or waiting to turn left...but what can be done to save yourself from others mistakes i dont know. I ride a motorcycle also and am as paranoid as hell about other cars on the road. so far so good...

vocus · September 2003

Another thing I usually do when making a left turn is not to turn my wheels before actually turning. If you turn your wheels and someone rear-ends you, you will be pushed into oncoming traffic. I read this somewhere when I first started driving back in '97, and always followed it.

jackiedoodle · September 2003

I have 40k on my echo. I use regular oil changes, I have the original tires. This is the first time I've rotated my tires on a regular basis and apparently it has made a difference. What other maintenance should I do at this time. I could check my owners manual but I would like to hear from my fellow echo brothers and sisters.

kneisl1 · September 2003

At 30,000 miles the airfilter and sparkplugs were supposed to be changed. Ditto the manual transmission oil (if you have a manual) and the coolant. Although it doesnt call for it, I would change the brake fluid or at least bleed out the brakes. And the clutch circuit if you have a manual. The car needs a good inspection as outlined in the manual...check the ball joint boots and tie rod ends, the steering rack joint ends and boots, and the boots for the cv joints (which from now on you better inspect every oil change...once they go it destroyes the axels very quickly) Both the pads on the front brakes and the linings of the rear brakes need to be inspected at this time....very important. The manual also calls for inspection for tightness of all the nuts and bolts which hold the suspension together. It doesnt call for the battery acid level to be checked, but you should be doing that at least once a year if not more often. It would be a good idea to have all the locks but especially the ignition lock lubricated every few years if not yearly. Also, the gas cap seal needs to be checked because if the cap doesnt seal the check engine light will come on.
Yes its time to reward your ECHO for the service it has given you with some maintainence! Id review the maintainence requirements in your owners manual at this time in case I missed anything. (but note that some of the things I mentioned arent in the manual)

jackiedoodle · September 2003

Wow, thanks for the motivation! I did change the air filter though, and all by my little self! Thanks again.

malibu_jack · September 2003

What are the thoughts on buying a used Echo with High KM's? I have seen one in our local Auto trader with 125,000KM and they are asking $6000 for it. Its a 2000 with the 4 door package. Is this a good deal? I have seen others, like a 2000 with 92000 KM for about $8000 and a 2001 with 29000 KM for $10995.

Would appreciate any feedback.

kneisl1 · September 2003

$6k for a high mileage car doesnt make any sense in the US where you can get a new one for zero interest for five years. When a car gets old it depends on how it was used to determine how reliable it is going to be. If you know the cars history then it makes sense to make a purchase. If you dont Id stay away. Of course things could be entirely different north of the border.

pulgo · September 2003

I have a 2001 with 116.000 kms and it is as good as new. I have only used synthetic oil, brake fluid, transmission fluid and coolant all have been replaced. It has been absolutely reliable and other than maintenance it hasn't cost me one cent.I have had samples of my last four oil changes analyzed by a lab and the results indicate that the Echo engine is extremely well built, uses no oil between changes and based on the wear metals should last for a very long time. In my personal case the goal is to reach 500.000 kms -310k miles- WITHOUT major repairs. Based on past performance this is a very attainable goal.

By the way, my fuel consumption stands at 50 MPG Canadian average. That is 41.6 MPG for those of you in the US.

If you consider that a new one is worth $ 18000 Canadian and that 125.000 kms is only one third of its life expectancy -if extremely well cared for- $ 6000 seems like a bargain to me. You are getting the two thirds remaining in the life of the car for half the price.

If the seller of the car can show it is not an ex rental and has all the service records and furthermore, if you have the car checked out by Toyota, it could be a very good deal.

125.000 kms means the owner had a long commute and most of those kms are highway. If all the oil changes were made on schedule it most likely means the engine is in excellent shape.

Make sure the car has not been in any accidents.

Good luck with your decision and please let us know if you purchased the car.

malibu_jack · September 2003

Well, My wife and I did it!! We bought a used Echo yesterday....but my oh my did we see a lot of junkers out there....out of 4 echos we saw, only two were worth considering. One of the most disappointing finds was a 2001 with 29000 KM's on it. this car was originaly a US vehicle (not good here since everything is imperial), and had had an accident where, the drivers fender was replaced, the driver headlight cluster, the hood, the airbags, the belt pretensioners, plus it had to be wired for Day Time Running Lights. the guy who was selling it told me all of this outright...but I can't see him getting $11000 for it. I took it for a drive anyway, and it sounded like there was no sound insullation at all, plus the seats were not comfortable! the other junker we saw had 92000KM's on it and they were asking $8000. When looking at it, it really didn't appear to be in great condition. Lots of scratches and the interior was pretty yellowed (due to smoking I think). My wife didn't even want to sit in it.

We then went to Bel-Air Toyota and saw a 2000 with 74000 KM. this car was mint condition with New tires, brakes, Tinted Windows, and Autostart...the whole nine yards. Took it out for a spin and was really impressed. the asking price was $10,995 (auto but no air). we negotiated and got the price down to $9775. We also negotiated to have the following included in the price:
-new floor mats
-replace the hubcaps
-fix some pulls in the seat fabric
-shampoo the car
-admin fee
-full tank of gas

We are quite pumpped over it and will be picking it up Next Saturday.

kneisl1 · September 2003

Sounds like you made a carefull desision. Good luck with your ECHO!

pulgo · September 2003

Congratulations! By what you tell it seems to be a great purchase. You paid 50% of a new one and have at least 80% of useful life left. You obviously did your homework and I'm sure you will not regret your decision.

malibu_jack · September 2003

Thanks guys for all your support! We pick the car up on Saturday....Can't wait to drive it!

chris5962 · October 2003

I was comparing different models and stumbled upon the Echo. I'm not going to bad mouth other cars, but I used to be a car salesman and have some cars I definately crossed off my list. With this in mind, I had never taken an echo on trade, and never really heard anything about them. Can anyone tell me some personal expiences. More pertaining to over all reliability. Is this a 4 year car then dump it or, can you push 200k with it. Thanks for any opinions.

pat · October 2003

Hi chris5962 - welcome!

I'm sure you'll be hearing from folks, but there is a ton of info here already. I hope you'll take some time to read through the previous posts and/or use the "Search This Discussion" feature on the page bar to benefit from all of the Echo history that is here.

vocus · October 2003

My friend has an 00 Echo, 70K miles already. Has been trouble-free except for some shaking at speed and some rattles inside. He actually just took a run to Atlantic City in it last weekend, took one tank almost round trip he said. He's happy with it.

kneisl1 · October 2003

The Echo is an excellent car in every way. I have owned mine for three years now with no problems. It is extremely nimble in handling and has excellent power for a small car. It is very comfortable to sit in and and getting in and out is very easy also. Most cars today require you to do a limbo to get in and out of. Probably the best testiment to it is the contents of this list...you will find nothing but happy campers here.
Im not sure the public has taken ECHO, or any small car to its heart however. It doesnt seem to be a terribly popular car. Which is a pity because we wouldnt need to worry so much about the Middle East if more people drove an ECHO. Also, its a terrifically economical car!

kneisl1 · October 2003

I recently changed the plugs in three of my four cars...the ECHO, a 93 Saturn, and a 93 Altima. They all took the same plug! What aere the odds of that?

kaz6 · October 2003

I've noticed a definite increase in ECHO's on the road in Los Angeles. Must be the high gas prices! I do miss mine-it was traded in April. I am happy with my current car but miss the mpg of the ECHO!

vocus · October 2003

Is there a large difference in the mpg between what you have now and the Echo (I know what you have now, but it might be off topic to list it). Just wondering.

pulgo · October 2003

Other than the mileage, what else is better in your new Elantra?

pulgo · October 2003

In case you have not seen it:

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/hl/04echo.htm

vocus · October 2003

I can tell you from the experience of driving both the Elantra and Echo that the Elantra feels heavier and more surefooted on the highway, especially when you are next to an 18-wheeler and/or at higher speeds. That's to be expected though, because the Elantra is a larger, heavier car.

The Echo has pure simplicity on its side though, not much stuff to break inside. Also, the car's fuel economy is outstanding, and the projected reliability is higher. I don't know about crash data, as I haven't seen any on the Echo. I know the Elantra didn't do so hot though in the NHTSA tests....

pulgo · October 2003

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/NCAP/BASC2003/chartp2.html

Reliability? In my case the car is absolutely bulletproof. No repairs whatsoever at 73k miles, only maintenance items. In my case: ATF drain and fill yearly, coolant drain and fill @ 40k, oil changes and tire rotations every 10k.
Sparkplugs replaced @ 30k, they were the regular copper type. Installed platinum spark plugs that should last 60k miles. Brakes are still @ 50%, Michelin tires 70% usable tread left, outstanding!

malibu_jack · October 2003

Hi there...As mentioned above, we recently bought a used 2000 Echo with 75000 KM's on it. My wife drives this car daily and has noticed that she still needs to fill up at least once a week...I find that fairly odd. We have set the trip odometer to see how many KM's we get on a tank.

Question....At how many KM's should I consider changing the Sparkplugs? Would this improve the fuel economy? Is this something I should get a mechanic to do or could it be done myself?

kneisl1 · October 2003

When I drive the ECHO the car gets 36-42 mpg. When my wife drives it, the mileage is more like 29. So if you have a heavy foot, the mileage can really suffer. Im thinking you could do the sparkplug change yourself with no problem. The plugs should have been changed at 50,000 kilometers.

deanc2000 · October 2003

Hello,
I am a US service member living near a base in Germany. I'm interested in buying an US spec Echo used for the reasons of reliability and and fuel economy. The choices (or choice at this time) is very limited. I'm seriously considering buying used stateside, like from an Ebay auction, and then shipping to Europe. The only problem is that the warranties don't apply in Europe, so I would be driving "naked" so to say. Does anyone know of a European company which I could buy a warranty from? What do people think of my plan? Thanks.

Dean.

Toyota Echo

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