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Toyota Echo

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  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    The NY Times on line has a story about some MORON who bought a Toyota Prius on ebay for $6000 OVER list price after being on a waiting list for 6 months for a new one. He estimates he will save $450 a year on gas at todays prices. $32,000 to save $450 a year.
  • babyboomerbabyboomer Member Posts: 205
    Two descendants of the five dolphins used forty years ago in the TV series Flipper still live at the Miami Seaquarium.

    Their names are Sundance and Echo.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    At least their names arent Scion a and b.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    If youve changed your cars oil, air filter, and sparkplugs youve already done the mechanical part of the 30k mile scheduled maintenance. Now comes the inspection part of the deal. I will also include things to check that Toyota doesnt bother about, but which should be looked at. Also, a vehicle inspection such as this should be done more frequently as the car gets older. (like five years or more) Once a year would be good.
      The first thing we are going to check is the coolant level and cooling system in general. With the engine stone cold, remove the cap to the radiator. Its right there at the front of the engine compartment in the middle. There should be coolant right up to the cap. If there is, look behind the radiator to the left (left is left side of the car) and find the expansion tank. There is a line on it indicating where the level should be when full. If it is there is nothing further to do. If its not and/or the coolant level in the radiator wasnt up to the cap, there is more work to do. Get some antifreeze (I prefer to get it from Toyota) and some distilled water in a gallon container from the drugstore. In a separate CLEAN gallon container (like a milk jug with a screw top) pour two quarts of the antifreeze and two quarts of the distilled water and shake it. Into the half full gallon of antifreeze pour the half gallon of distilled water. Now you have two gallons of antifreeze, enough to add some for now and later and enough to change the antifreeze at a later date. LABEL THE MILK JUG FULL OF ANITFREEZE BEFORE YOU STORE IT.Get a funnel and fill the expansion tank up to the line on the tank and/or also fill the radiator up to the cap level. Put the cap on and start the engine. Drive the around to warm the engine up. Stop the car, put the transmission in PARK and put the handbrake on. In a manual transmission car, leave the transmission in neutral and apply the parking brake. With the engine running, lay on the ground so you can observe whats going on under the engine. You are looking for leaks. The place to look is under the engine on the right side of the car (which is where the water pump is) and across the front of the car where the radiator is. Look for at least five minutes as it may only drip once or twice in that time. If you see dripping coolant youre going to need to take the car in to have it fixed. No leaks? Well, maybe all is OK and maybe not. For the next week or so, whenever you drive the car, look under it for leaks. If you park it in the same place every night, you can put a large piece of cardboard under it and inspect it in the morning for drips. A week after checking the coolant level, check it again. If its OK check it again in another week. Is the level in the radiator and expansion tank full? If so then all is well. If not you have to add coolant and check it again next week. If you are adding coolant on a regular basis you better have a shop look at it. Any or all of the following may need attention. The water pump could be shot (on Toyotas they usually go over 100k miles before going) the coolant hoses may be worn out and leaking, or the radiator itself may be leaking. Have a shop check it out and fix it.
  • natashadtnatashadt Member Posts: 14
    I am a 20 year old college student. Searching the top ten list for the least expensive cars, I found the toyota ECHO. I am considering buying the echo. I plan to put at least 2500 down as a down payment. I want my payments to be no more than about 215 a month. Am I going about this the right way?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Echo, Scion xA and Scion xB all are based on same chassis and engine. The Scions have more standard equipment and are a better value than the Echo.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    A better value if you can come up with the money would be to snag a used ECHO. $8000 should get you a 2001 with less than 30k on it. New ECHOs are getting scarce at least in NJ. I would stay away from the Scion as they are having quality control issues, as incredible as that may seem for a Toyota. Also a new ECHO will require very expensice insurance payments a used one wont have (if you dont borrow the money)
  • lakelandfllakelandfl Member Posts: 10
    Yes buy the Echo you will love it . I still love my Echo very very much it has been a great car and for the money it's the best small car on the road .
  • m4priusm4prius Member Posts: 31
    Kneisl1...can you give me specifics on quality control issues for the Scion???

    Note: I have an Echo and love it...however was considering getting another vehicle like the XB since it had loads of space for folks in the back and has similar mechanicals as the ECHO.

    Has it been confirmed that this is the last production year for the ECHO??

    Thanks,

    Mike
  • m4priusm4prius Member Posts: 31
    A Scion Review from a Web Posting on XA:

    "I think most consumers equate Toyota with high quality, which is why we were both surprised to see some flaws in our test car. There were noticeable gaps at the top of the A-pillars and wavy rubber gaskets around the rear windows. We were also a bit dismayed by what was under the hood. Our Scion came equipped with a twin-cam 1.5-liter four-cylinder engine that makes 108 horsepower and is linked to a five-speed manual transmission. The engine is noisy, especially at highway speeds, and it's short on power, particularly when you're trying to overtake or merge into heavy freeway traffic. We both thought the suspension felt stiff and harsh, and the front bucket seats, while stylish looking, need more lateral support. Basically, you get out of the xA shaking your head and wondering how the xA and the xB, from the same brand, could deliver such different impressions."
  • natashadtnatashadt Member Posts: 14
    New Echos or just Echos period are scarce here in Mississippi. Why do you think that getting a used Echo would be a better value other than insurance? How much do think I should expect to pay for insurance new or used?
  • katetxkatetx Member Posts: 5
    Used is usally an excellent way to go...especially with a reliable car such as a Toyota. You are letting someone else take the hit on the depreciation instead of you. My first car was a 1991 Toyota Corolla back when I graduated from College. I found that car to be very reliable. I just kept up with the basic maintenance such as oil changes etc.. and it ran great. I kept this car for 9 years and had over 100,000 miles when I sold it. I think you will be happy with the Echo also because of the mpg rating.
    I think the Echo is definetly a contender in value, reliability etc..
    Whatever you decide good luck.
  • natashadtnatashadt Member Posts: 14
    What do you think about getting a car from a private car auction?
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    This survey of initial quality found the Scions had a defect count of 181 per 100 vehicles, the HIGHEST of any car.
  • babyboomerbabyboomer Member Posts: 205
    What was the defect count for the Echo?
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    I didnt see any defect count for ECHO. I suggest trying the Powers website, Ill look there today.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    I got some results for the ECHO, but i could not find the latest survey data. The results that were there are a little strange. For instance, the ECHO scored higher on STYLING than it did on anything else. Makes you question the whole thing. I note there is a lot of fuss recently about Korean vehicles scoring higher in initial quality than European vehicles. That is misleading because on quality over time they score the WORST of any vehicle. Which is what matters. I CAN tell you that my 2001 ECHO has had ZERO defects even after three and a half years and 22k miles.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    That is misleading because on quality over time they score the WORST of any vehicle.

    Well, that is misleading also. What kind of time frame are you referring to? What scores are you referring to?
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    This was from an article in the NY Times about the report itself, quite some time ago possibly a month. It was the NY Times on the web if you care to search it. You could also search the JD Power site.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Based on the 2004 JD Power VDS (based on 2001 vehicles), your statement is incorrect. Some Korean vehicles in that study did better than non-Korean vehicles. Based on other studies on long-term reliability, e.g. CR's study of 2001 vehicles, your statement is incorrect. There, the Korean vehicles rated in the study were just below the survey average, ahead of many other makes.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    W\ere you able to find the NY Times article? Thats where my information came from.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I looked up the JD Power study, as you suggested I do. I'd rather look at the raw data than someone's interpretation of it.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    What have you heard about the economic health of these Korean car companies? In the past Ive heard they are tetering on the verge on bankruptcy. Or that GM was trying to buy them out. I know Toyota is doing pretty good these days.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Well, that's probably fodder for a whole different board (and has been actually), but as we know GM has control of Daewoo and has imported several models into the U.S. and other countries under various nameplates. Hyundai has control of Kia and is actually doing pretty well right now, growing at a good pace, #7 largest automaker in the world (about half the units per year of Toyota), but must start pumping more money into R&D (which they plan to do). Toyota of course is doing very well, although their decisions about which certain small cars to sell in the U.S. are highly suspect, right? ;-)
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    No they are only following their surveys which indicate what American consumers will buy. Its the judgement of American consumers (not buying fuel efficient cars) which is suspect.
  • tmcc1tmcc1 Member Posts: 13
    My 2001 Echo has 157000 Km (97500) miles and zero problems.
    Great car.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Great! I miss the days when I commuted to work 50 miles each way and so could own a vehicle with 100,000 miles on it in just two or three years. Now its only 6.5 miles to work. Remember to check the boots on your drive axles every oil change!
  • wrgrahamwrgraham Member Posts: 112
    I did change the spark plugs today, finally. Took about 45 minutes at a careful pace, thanks for your detailed instructions, kneisl. Out came the Iridium Denso plugs and I put in AutoLite double platinum plugs, which is what Napa recommended. The Echo runs nicely on a test drive so I must have been reasonably successful. 108K miles, that is a long time for the original plugs. They look ok, but I notice that the electrode is a very small cone coming to a sharp point. Quite different from the new ones which have a more thick and squat electrode. Only point that left me with concern is that when I pulled the connections off the old plugs, took some wiggling and pulling. But when I replaced them on the new plugs they just slid down with no resistance. Left me unsure about the connection, but I guess that was unnecessary concern. I also changed the oil once more, and checked that the boots are just fine. Plenty coolant still. Wonder if I should look for a new battery or just keep with the original one as long as it performs ok. One further item, I notice the clutch adhesion point is getting rather close to the floor, probably there is an adjustment I can have done.
  • clarinetsterclarinetster Member Posts: 5
    Hey everybody,
        I have an '00 Echo that I bought brand new. It has 29900 miles on it. For the last few months i've been having a problem with the acceleration after the car hasn't been started for a period of around 13-15 hours or more. What happens is every morning as i exit the driveway, no matter how hard i press on the accelerator i get only idleing speed for about 3-4 seconds. From then on for the rest of the day I never have a problem. It started happening a couple months ago, but it didn't happen consistently every morning, so i thought if i took it to the dealership they wouldn't be able to reproduce it. But now it is happening consistently, any time the car has been left for a period of at least 13-15 hours without starting. It happens in all kinds of whether, very hot and very cold. It happens whether or not i turn the radio on at the start. What the heck could the problem be? Fortunately i have an extended warranty (5 year) so it will hopefully be covered. But i just wanted opinions as to what the problem might be just because i am curious. Thanks for any responses.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    The clutch is hydralically operated so there is no adjustment. It IS possible to bleed the clutch cylindar...you can see it right behind the radiator with the bleeder bolt on it (push on the clutch and have somone watch to see what moves) That should be your first move. Its quite possible that the nmechanical components of the clutch are worn and that is whats causing the problem.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    You probably have a bad sensor someplace in the system. It might even be a loose wire. I think what is happening is that once the sensor becomes warm, its working normally and the engine runs fine. We often troubleshoot electrical components with a can of fast freeze. You spray the suspected component with fast freeze and see if it makes it screw up. As long as the engine runs ok when warm, you might consider leaving well enough alone. If you bring it to the dealer, they will hook up a probe to a socket and read the error codes on the computer. In theory that will tell the mechanic which gizmo is bad and he'll replace it and the car will run fine. It might take 10 minutes. In theory. If you get a good machanic this is what will happen. If you dont, youll be going back to the dealer again and again while they replace sensor after sensor. You see, the cars have gotten so complicated the mechanics arent all up to speed and even if they are they often get stumped. You can by a thing called a scan tool (OBD II) and hook it up to the socket yourself and read the error codes. They cost about $100 dollars. I have the repair manual and you can tell me the error code and Ill look it up and tell you where the sensor is so you can replace it. If you want to. ake it to the dealer and let them play with it. Welcome to the Space Age!
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Tell us what happens! Inquiring minds want to know!
  • clarinetsterclarinetster Member Posts: 5
    Hey kneisl1,
        I took it to the dealer today and left it for them to try out in the morning. Should be interesting to see if they can find the problem or not. They'll call me and let me know what's going on, and i'll post here whatever i find out. I'll bet your right that it's a sensor somewhere... or something just takes awhile to charge... it's weird because it happens in all weather conditions. Anyways thanks for the reply and i'll keep posting updates.
  • incrediblechoincrediblecho Member Posts: 1
    Hello,
      I recently had the same problem. Unfortunately my ECHO has 113000 miles on it and it wasn't covered under warranty and cost me $95 to find out it was just a dirty MAF sensor. The dealer cleaned it and my ECHO has been great ever since!:)
  • clarinetsterclarinetster Member Posts: 5
    Are you serious? That would be sweet if that's all it is! The dealer called me today to tell me that they couldn't reproduce it... i told them to hold on to it one more day and surely they will reproduce the problem in the morning. But maybe i could help them out a little and suggest that it could be a dirty MAF. Thanks for the info!
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    What is the MAF sensor and where does one find it?
  • clarinetsterclarinetster Member Posts: 5
    I didn't know what a MAF was either, so i searched for it online. Here's one link:
    http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h34.pdf

    MAF stands for Mass Air Flow sensor. As far as where it is on the Echo, i'm not sure since the dealer has my echo now, but it is probably right around the air filter somewhere. It makes since that a Dirty Maf could be my problem because i just changed the air filter to a K&N. I did some research and i guess the K&N is known to have oil come off it that will get on the MAF, and then dirt gets stuck to the oily MAF which causes bogus readings. The dealer thinks it's the transmision slipping, so they want to change the trans. fluid and check it out tommorow. If there is still a problem tommorow i'm just going to tell them to clean off the MAF for me since that is probably what it is. Based on my research a dirty MAF probably won't cause an error code either.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    K&N filters are made of cotton. They improve airflow, however they are only 95% efficient at collecting dirt. The paper element air filter the dealer sells is 99% efficient. Actually, the Toyota air filter is three layers of different material and is said to be VERY good. So yes its very posssible your K&N airfilter crudded up your MAF. I always recommend people to NOT buy K&N air filters for their vehicles for this reason. But its hard to convince them.
  • sluglineslugline Member Posts: 391
    My girlfriend has an '00 with very similar mileage. She was experiencing similar lag in the morning. She put off addressing this problem for a long time, which I think may have made it worse; later the CEL was triggered. She eventually had the air flow meter (Is that the same as an MAF sensor?) replaced and a clogged injector cleaned out. I hope your fix costs less than the $400 it cost her at the dealership.
  • clarinetsterclarinetster Member Posts: 5
    Well i now have my echo, and i have yet to experience the problem any more. The mechanic thought that the transmission was slipping some while driving, and when looking at the fluid apparently he couldn't identify if it was type IV ATF or not. So he suggested replacement, and i ok'd it. Now the car shifts more smoothly... very nice! I didn't notice how the shifting had slowly degraded over time... or maybe i did and just thought it was normal wear and tear. But when i thought about it it made sense. The dealer reminded me that i needed to make sure nobody put in anything but Type IV fluid. I had never had a trasmission fluid change before, but it is very possible that when i had gone in for oil change, someone topped off my transmission fluid with the wrong kind. I never before explicitly said put in Type IV, because i just hadn't thought to. But i won't forget now!
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Glad to hear it worked out and you are happy. Interesting post and gives us something to think about if we have the same problem!
  • romigromig Member Posts: 11
    I drove from PA to Florida 2200 miles round trip and the Echo worked like a dream. I hit 100 mph a few times and it would have went over but I thought I might strain the Engine.. I was in a speed trap doing 90 in a 70 mph zone I looked throughh my rear view mirror and saw a patrol car pull out I thought he was chasing me but for some reason he backed off or chased someone else.. While doing 90 a white Echo passed me flying. I also seen a green Echo which I never seen before
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Id like to see a Hyundai top that!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    According to Car magazine (just happended to buy one today), top speed of the Accent is 118, and 128 for the Elantra. They don't have the ECHO in that mag (UK publication), but the Yaris with the 1.5L engine is rated at 118 mph.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    No I want to see someone in a Hyundai actually GO that fast, not READ about it in a magazine. I have been to 106 in my ECHO getting around a left lane blocker on the NJTP who sped up whenever anyone tried to pass him. He was driving a Saab which several others tried to pass but couldnt hang with him. I just left my foot on the floor until I passed him. When I looked at the speedo it read 106. It didnt feel terribly uncomfortable either.
  • wrgrahamwrgraham Member Posts: 112
    Kneisl, I have never taken my Echo up to 100, I am supposing you are in 4th gear, not 5th, or are you driving an automatic. Also, there is supposed to be some limiting device on speed, isnt there? What does it do, and what does one experience if it kicks in? Also, what is the experience if the rev limiter kicks in at 6300 or wherever it is supposed to appear?
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    I have a manual transmission and I was in fifth gear. I dont know anything about a limiter or how it works. If you ask me if there IS a limiter, it shouldnt let you drive the car over 100 mph. I also have no idea how fast an ECHO revs at redline but 6300 sounds about right. Normally I never exceed 45 mph. But by all means if you can find a secure place, take the ECHO to the ton. With all the talk about how lousy the suspension is, I think youll be suprised at how much control there is.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Could be a probelm in seeing a Hyundai dust an ECHO: maybe Hyundai drivers aren't the scofflaws that ECHO drivers are. :-P
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Yeah we're a pretty wild bunch all right.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    According to an article in the NY Times, Toyota is discontimueing the Celica and MR2. No mention is made of the ECHO being discontinued, although its getting harder to find new ones for sale. They also repeat what I have read elsewhere that the Scions are on the bottom of the JD Power list of initial quality. However, they say its not necessarily because of DEFECTS, people just arent happy with the design of the car or something. They also report problems selling the Scion because only 2/3 of Toyota dealerships have signed up to sell the car. The car appears to be unwanted at some dealers because it costs nearly half of more expensive Toyotas like the trucks and Camrys. The dealers would rather sell them and make more money. I suspect that is the same thing that happened to the ECHO.
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