Toyota Echo

kneisl1 · January 2006

And no one here wants it! The Beetle was pug ugly yet Americans realized its value. It was popular even though it was a creation of the [non-permissible content removed].

nomoney · January 2006

the blower on my 2000 echo isn't working properly.
i turn it on and sometimes it works and other times
it doesn't. when it is working, it makes a clicking
sound. i tried to remove the blower and found a plastic
housing around it preventing access. i tried to find
a way to remove the plastic housing but all the screws
i took out did not help to move it. any suggestions?

kneisl1 · January 2006

Says in the service manual-

remove glove compartment door

remove ECU the (computer)
disconnect connectors and two bolts
remove ECU

two way heater flow models (double fan one on top of the other)

disconnect control link
disconnect connectors
disconnect connector clamps
disconnect wiring harness clamps
remove the screw
remove the claw and remove the air duct

remove blower motor
disconnect the connector
remove 3 screws and the blower motor.

they further say to hook the terminals on the blower/fan assembly to a battery to test the blower.

god luck! tell us what happens!

echoer2001 · January 2006

Hi,
I am looking for a tachometer for my 2001 echo, i got sunpro but was told by the dealer that it is not compatible, would something like Equus work? Thanks

nomoney · January 2006

thanks. where can i get a service manual that
you referred to? my echo has 208,000 miles.
a service manual would help for future reference.

kneisl1 · January 2006

Ask the Toyota dealer I believe they either have them or can get one for you. I also think there is a number you can call in your owners manual if you have it to get one. They are not cheap mine was like $120 five years ago and its one of the worst manuals Ive ever had. Better than nothing though.
Did you fix the blower?
Also, after 208k miles, what things have (or havnt) been replaced on your ECHO? It would be very interesting to know!

nippononly · January 2006

208K miles on an Echo? That is not in kilometers? That's a lot of miles that can't be more than about 5 1/2 years old. I am impressed.

Yeah, what major repairs have you had? Or minor repairs?

kneisl1 · January 2006

Yes I want to see all those Kias with 200 thousand miles on them. My friend Jose says the Hyundai has a Mitsubishi motor in it because the Hyundai made ones were defective on a massive scale.

rjgee · January 2006

Wow, and I thought I had a lot of miles!
[see message #4056]

I was going to wait until I hit 200k, but I'm almost there so here's my status report

Currently, I have 191k miles on the car. It has been mostly trouble free. I don't drive for a job, so its mostly job commuting time and vacation trips.

Troubles?
1) Cracked windshield. - stress crack

2) Trouble with the ECU. Mine is a very early model Echo and had the 1st generation ECU which kept throwing random misfire codes. Used the service manual to exhaust almost every possibility regarding misfires (I do all my own work; it helps me learn, and besides - I'm too cheap to let a shop work on it *pfft*) So, in exasperation, I subscribe to alldata tsbs hoping for - well, anything. They mention a problem with the 2nd generation ECU causing misfire codes.... AHA, I thought. Picked up a 3rd gen ECU from eBay for $25; problem gone.

3) As previously reported, tailpipe has recently started to rust through. No aftermarket part yet, and Toyota wants almost $900 for the part.

4) MAF problems that everyone else has since experienced. 5 minutes to clean it; good as new.

5) minor: Tape deck on OEM unit wore out. Replaced under warranty 1x, the 2nd unit wore out within a year. Replaced with an aftermarket unit.

5) minor: Multiple console lights have burned out.

I will have to say, for an econobox, this is an incredibly durable car. It is on its 4th hood. 2 deers, and some jerk in an SUV making a left through a red light... Had to replace the radiator after the 2nd deer, but the car keeps on running strong! It doesn't burn or leak any oil yet, and the transmission still feels strong (automatic).

Random thoughts:

Replace pcv, filters, fluids, and belts on schedule; brakes when needed, and the car will last a long time.

LOVE the center dash console. Once you get used to it, you will NEVER want the speedo cluster under the steering wheel again.

As I seem to spend an inordinate amount of time behind the wheel, I can say the seats are very well designed. Either that, or they just got lucky. Spend 10-12 hours driving in some cars and even my strong back can feel tired. But the Echo seats seem to have support in the right place.

Hopefully - - - See you at the next 100k!

RJ

kneisl1 · January 2006

If you dont mind my asking:

How long did your belts last?
" " " " pcv "
" " " " rear brakes "
When you say tailpipe do you mean the exhaust pipe?

I agree this is one well built car. Keep the maintenance up and it going to last a LONG time.

rjgee · January 2006

I do most maintenance on schedule. Belts at 60k, whether they need it or not. (although I've slipped on the latest belt change; 11k over). Visual exam on the belts today - they still look fine - no cracks, but I tend to like to avoid problems so will change them as soon as it gets a little warmer.

PCV should be changed yearly / maybe every other year; its a standard maintenance tune up item. Good rule of thumb, change your plugs - change your pcv. Although you can check them for blockage, they are cheap enough to just change...

Rear brakes have only been changed once; last check was at 180k and they were still fine.

Also replaced the struts around 180k (although there was still had some life left on the old ones).

And yes, by tailpipe, I meant exhaust pipe. On the echo, its 1 long piece, including the catalytic converter. (The muffler is seperate, though).

kneisl1 · January 2006

I mentioned in a previous post that Toyota offers a lifetime warranty with labor on mufflers and shocks/struts. (at least it says that in my owners manual.) I would have to think thats the way to go. When my 240D was 14 years old and had 120k miles on it I put an aftermarket exhaust system on it for $300. ($1000 for OEM) It lasted 3 years. The one I replaced was origional.
After 5 years nothing has worn out on my ECHO. I expect the first thing to go will be the battery. Then the muffler and belts followed closely by the brake pads/shoes. Im hoping to go 10 years and 60k miles just doing the battery and belts.
Say did you ever have your valves adjusted?

nippononly · January 2006

I can't quite get to 40 mpg - filled up today, 402 miles, 10.25 gallons, which I guess is about 39 mpg. The running average is also evening out around 39. Not bad for around-town driving with defrost-linked A/C running a good portion of the time, but I was challenging myself to make the 40 mark, and I guess I will have to wait until summer, if then.

I did learn that the gas warning light starts to blink at around 2 gallons remaining, and that the bottom hash of the fuel gauge represents around 1.5 gallons remaining. Good to know.

I will do a few more tanks to get a solid mpg average, and then decide if I want to risk reducing it by putting on bigger tires. Since high fuel economy is one of the main reasons I bought this car, I don't want to toss that advantage out the window just for slightly better cornering and high speed stability.

I am surprised to hear the above poster didn't replace the original struts until 180K miles. I would probably do them before then just because it is hard to detect them wearing out, if you are the one driving the car every day.

Is this car supposed to have regular valve adjustments?

kneisl1 · January 2006

Yes the valve adjustment is supposed to be checked every 60k miles. Theres bad news and good news. The bad news is that the adjustment, if its needed, involves taking out the camshafts. Which is hard to do because the engine sits sideways and its difficult to access the right side of the engine to remove the belts and timing chain. Basically, the valve adjustment system is the same as a modern day motorcycles. Its not typical of a cars engine at all. So Im afraid even your Toyota mechanic isnt going to be familiar with it. (and there arent a lot of ECHOs out there to practice on) I have done this adjustment many times on motorcycles I have owned, but I doubt I could do the adjustment on the ECHO because of the tight space around the timing chain.
Now for the good news. Once the adjustment is set in this system, it tends to stay set. My Honda ST1100 stayed in adjustment for hundreds of thousands of miles and thats a high performance motorcycle. (and the ECHOs engine is a high performance car engine!) Also, it isnt hard to CHECK the adjustment. Its about as difficult as replacing the sparkplugs. A little more involved but nothing you couldnt handle. Furthermore, the range of permissible clearance is fairly wide. And even if the clearance gets a little loose it probably wont hurt anything. If the clearances get tight however, you could burn the valve faces. Thats the downside.
So what should ECHO owners be doing? Well, at 60k miles the clearances should be checked. They will probably be fine. Even if they are a little on the loose side, that isnt a problem. The problem will be if they are tight. I mean REALLY tight. Its probably a good idea to be talking with your Toyota dealer to find out if they are able to do this adjustment. Its possible there are independed machanics who could do it, but rememeber this is NOT a typical car engine. But you need to find someone who does this as a regular thing and can prove it.
I will be checking mine in another five years and try to find someone I think can do it if they need adjusting.

dgecho1 · January 2006

I have a red 2000 echo that is fully loaded along with a remote start/alarm and cruise control ]added] and has only 28,000 miles on it! It had 25,000 when I got it back in Nov. 2005 but have put some long freeway trips on it since then........fully serviced for the 5 year mark by a good Toyoyta service dept. I thought I would use the car on my current travel job but found out that the fed. govt. is going to give me a vehicle and gas card!!?/!
So, should I sell this vehicle or keep it? How much is it worth..runs like a scalded dog [100 mph going UPHILL on an unnamed eastern mtn. freeway] and smooth as a bay's butt @ 70-75 mph.....?
Thanks,
Don Gillespie
ATL,GA

nippononly · January 2006

I assume it is a 4-door? If so, I figure with only 28K it would still be worth $9-10K, despite the age in years. Is it under any kind of warranty?

As for keeping or selling, it comes down to whether or not you have any other cars of your own. If I had a "company car", I would still keep my own car on the side, but that's just me. I drive a lot and usually have two. You have to bear in mind, though, that if you keep it you will pay several hundred dollars a year in insurance and reg, a little bit of maintenance, etc.

dgecho1 · January 2006

Thanks for your input! I also have a 2003 honda civic LX on a lease for another year or so...40-42 mpg @70 mph so it is my 'low-mileage gas guzzler'...the echo does 45 mpg and was 5 years in the bronx only [per carfax] which explains the mileage...I was going to price it @ $9000 +/- on ajc.com in a week or so and see what happens!
Thanks,
Don
ATL, GA

kneisl1 · January 2006

Tell us what you get for it so we have a reference. You can find ECHOs with 50k on them around here for $5000 if you look around. Then again, the dealer will have the same car for $12,000.
Note: Blue Book for a 2000 ECHO in excellent condition with 28k miles, ac, and auto transmission in the Philadelphia area is $6500.

dgecho1 · January 2006

On this 2000 echo, you have to add power steering,3 in 1 sound system, fold down rear seats, cruise control,new floor mats, remote start/alarm, alloy wheels, digital clock, ALL 5 year/60,000 mile servicing done [$750 with 10% discount to be exact..counts factory and dealer reccomended srevice!], excellent tires, and the fact that this car is now down south ...where they do not use a lot of salt!

kneisl1 · January 2006

Ok just quoting the blue book! Unfortunately the ECHO is a terribly unpopular car here in the US. Which is wrong but what can you do?
Theres a much better market for the Civic than there is for the ECHO!

nippononly · February 2006

this car has a BB value of $7000. However, when I was looking recently, I found that gas-sippers like Echo and Corolla are going for a premium right now, maybe because of spiking gas prices last year? I dunno. But if it is in that good a condition, you might be able to get $7500-8000 for it - I hope you have those service records.

nippononly · February 2006

I forgot to mention - last fill-up was 379 miles, 9.5 gallons, which is............40 mpg! :-)

I was pleased, although of course my running average is only 39. All this driving has been in town, no hiway trips or anything, so the car is delivering on the FE I bought it for.

nomoney · February 2006

i haven't had much trouble with it at all.
i change the brake pads each year myself.
my knowledge of cars and mechanics in general
is very limited. basically, when there is a
problem, i attempt to correct it myself. if
i can't understand the problem, i ask a friend,
a co-worker or recently the internet. if all else
fails, i go to a mechanic. i had bad experiences
with mechanics untill i met this fellow. he doesn't
take advantage of my "mechanical disabilty" (ha)
the biggest problem i had since i bought my ECHO
was the a/c. it worked but never cold.
in 3 years i needed a new compressor. it is the
size of a 2 liter coke. it holds approx. .6lbs
of freon because it is so small. that is why the
a/c is only cool at best. the machamic who replaced
it overfilled it with refrigerant. last summer it was
very cold in the cab. i had a nice summer. i haven't
been able to fix my blower because i can't take out
the white plastic housing behind the glove compartment
that will access the blower. i took out every screw i
saw with no luck. i guess this one needs a mechanic.
so far, this is the best car i have ever owned.
i want to change the spark plug wires but i wonder about
the way it is taped around a plastic coil. i changed
the plugs with busch plugs, 1 plug died and the
"check engine" light appeared. that led to replacing the
catalytic converter at a cost of $700. struts were $370.
i changed them after 200,000 miles of driving. WHAT A CAR!

kneisl1 · February 2006

>...40 mpg!I cant take out the white plastic housing behind the glove compartment that will accss the blower>

The manual says you have to remove the computer after you remove the glove compartment door. Did you get the computer out?

dgecho2 · February 2006

Yep, got all of the service records from reinhardt toyota in montgomery,al where the servicing was done!
Thanks,
Don

nippononly · February 2006

a trip to San Diego in the little guy just to see how good my fuel economy could get. On the way down (600 miles or so each way) I held the speed to no more than 72 mph, running without the A/C (driving at night), and managed about 46 mpg. Was quite impressed.

On the way back, I drove halfway with the A/C running, and often at speeds over 80, and only managed about 40 mpg, so the A/C and high speeds definitely have an impact on the FE. I know, I know, DUH! Right? I was a little surprised at just how much it impacted it. I will have to figure out if it is the high speeds or the A/C that really knocks down the FE in this car. Additional future testing! :-)

More than one reviewer knocked this car for poor long-distance comfort and support from the seats, but I found it to be more comfortable than a number of other cars I have had, even after six hours at a stretch.

It was 88 degrees where I was at yesterday, and the A/C performed like a champ. Quick to cool the car (which is pretty small after all), and very good at maintaining the temp once achieved.

kneisl1 · February 2006

Your mileage coresponds to my experience with my 2001 five speed manual in every instance. I once got 51 mpg driving the car for 200 miles at a steady speed of 60 mph, in summer, no AC. Driving it a steady 80 mph for a 500 mile trip, no AC, summer or winter, resulted in 40-43 mpg on numerous occasions.
I have not experienced problems with the AC cooling the car as others have, although the air coming out of the vents is not as cold as some cars I have driven. I suspect these problems result from not putting the air lever on recirculation.
Although I weigh 250 pounds I am very comfortable driving my ECHO even on long trips. No problems there at all. Additionally, because it sits so high, getting in and out of the car is easy too. Its easier than getting onto and out of my wifes 2005 Camry and thats a BIG car.

nippononly · February 2006

we have a parking lot with long spaces, and I put my car all the way in. There is a lady with a Suburban that often parks next to me (which is about twice the length), and quite often there is a minivan on the other side. It amuses me to no end to see people pull up and make the turn thinking my space is empty, only to discover my car is in there and pull up short.

:-P

kneisl1 · February 2006

Watch out your ECHO doesnt get hit. The drivers think the space is empty, dont watch where they're going, and cant stop when they see the vehicle.

Its best not to pull all the way into the parking space. Just pull in so the rear bumper lines up with the rear bumpers of the cars next to it.

chococherri · February 2006

I've had my 2000 Echo for about 3 years now with no problems. Recently I was in a car accident where I sustained a little over 3500 worth of damage(to the passenger door and quarter panel). My question is... is it even worth it to repair? I've been looking into buying another one anyway. Does anyone know if it's possible to get trade in value on a car in this condition? Other than the body damage, the car drives perfectly.

nippononly · February 2006

The dealer will subtract the full retail cost of repairing the car from its trade-in value, which with your car might get you fairly close to zero net trade value depending on how many miles/what equipment you have on it.

Many dealers will just tell you they don't want a trade-in in that condition, but may take it off your hands for free as a favor for buying a car from them.

Can't you get it fixed? Was the person who hit you uninsured?

chococherri · February 2006

Thanks for the reply.

Unfortunately, the person who hit me was uninsured and unlicensed.

I wonder if I can get anything for it at an auto dismantler...

nippononly · February 2006

Yes, a dismantler might give you up to a couple hundred bucks for a car that is running well.

chococherri · February 2006

I'll keep looking into it. Maybe I'll wait and get a Yari. I don't know though... I really like my Echo...

nippononly · February 2006

another tank of gas, and again I pulled 40 mpg, entirely in town! 419 miles, 10.5 gallons of gas. I am loving this. If the fuel economy really improves in summer, I am going to wind up doing even better on gas savings than I had hoped I would do. Yippee! :-)

kneisl1 · February 2006

Remove the belt from the power steering pump for even more MPG. Youll be passing Prius's at the gas pump!

nomoney · February 2006

i finally fixed my car. it was the blower motor. i replaced
the part. i used my wife's compact case mirror to look under the dashboard. the
mirror and the light reflected from a flashlight revealed 2 screws far in
the back holding the plastic cover containing the motor
in place. thanks for the help. without it i could not
have removed the motor. the service manual was correct,
however, i don't know why it did not mention the screws.
by the way, what is a claw? the service manual and recall
bulletin mention removing a claw to access the motor. but
i never found it. the idea of using a mirror came from a
good friend with mechanic skills

kneisl1 · February 2006

Great Im glad to hear the problem is solved. That service manual (which I paid like $125 for) is about the poorest Ive seen. I believe the problem stems from the fact that the manual must be written in Japanese and then translated by a Japanese speaking individual without a very good command of American English. Ive seen the same thing at work on a computer controlled assembly machine. It a Yamaha machine with software written by Philips. (Dutch) The service and operating manual were written in Japanese, then translated into Dutch (who added their own input on the software) then translated into English English (as opposed to American English) The result is a three foot high stack of three ring binder Gobblety [non-permissible content removed].

nomoney · February 2006

the manual is worth the cost. i would not throw it away
if i had one. it does not, however, provide all the
answers. i wonder if the dealer works from the same
poorly translated service manual as we are forced
to use? there is also a list of recall bulletins found
in chilton's repair manual online. the one i found
is accessed, i think, through ebsco host on my local
public library's website. i found that information
helpful also. thanks. keep this forum going. its great.

kneisl1 · February 2006

No Im not throwing it away! Its just that often it isnt clear. If you have any questions pertaining to the manual, just ask.

larrykingry · February 2006

Where is the Echo's PCV valve located?

Thanks

Larry

hilmer · February 2006

It is under the plastic cover on the right end of the valve cover.

John

hilmer · February 2006

I am descending a hill at 45 mph, no gas applied, I touch the breaks and the transmission downshifts out of OD. If I'm VERY gentle sometimes I can avoid this.

Is this normal and is there a way to adjust it for the use of a bit more break before it tries to "Help me"?

Thanks,

John

kneisl1 · February 2006

Use the emergency brake instead.

hilmer · February 2006

See this link, and maybe bookmark the site.

http://www.msnusers.com/Sorensonbrian/yourwebpage.msnw

Handy stuff.

John

kneisl1 · February 2006

The parts where he tells you how to clean the MAP sensor, change the airfilter, etc. are good. I DO NOT recommend you add anything like wider wheels, oiled element airfilter, swaybars etc. to your ECHO. Your ECHO is fine like it is.

larrykingry · February 2006

John thanks for the reply on the PCV. It is just what I needed.

Thanks again

Larry

larrykingry · February 2006

John it took me 11 minutes. (I dropped a nut)

Thanks again

Larry

nomoney · February 2006

does a book exist called "echo for dummies"?
how can i change the drive belt?
how can i remove the power steering belt?

thanks,

kneisl1 · February 2006

First you have to remove the alternator/water pump belt. Note that this belt goes around the crankshaft pulley, the alternator pulley, and the a/c pulley. The ribbed side of the belt drives these things. The waterpump pulleyis driven with the BACK of this belt and is flat with no grooves.
There are two bolts which are loosened to remove and install the alternator belt. One is fairly obvious and it moves in a curved slot to make the adjustment. There is another one which is part of a bracket to actually hold the alternator on. When you get these both loose, shove the alternator towards the BACK of the car. This will give you enough slack to remove the belt.
With the alternator belt off you can remove the powersteering belt. It may help to remove the right wheel so you have more room to work/see. Be sure to use a jack stand to hold the car securely if you do this. PLEASE dont work under the car with just a jack holding it up! Make sure you know how to get the car on the jackstand properly! You could get killed. There are also two bolts to loosen to move the PS pump so the belt can be removed. There are four "holes" in the face of the pulley. One of these bolts is accessed through one of these holes. You might have to bump the engine around to do this with the starter. (make sure the engine is in PARK or neutral!) There is another bolt to be loosened which is ABOVE the pulley almost directly above the one you get at through the pulley. IGNORE the bolt to the RIGHT of the pulley as you face it. Once the bolts are loose you can shove the PS pump towards the FRONT of the car to looosen the tension on the belt.
Put the new ps pump belt on first. Tighten the two bolts sort of tight but not all the way. Then move the ps pump to the BACK of the car to tighten it. Then fully tighten the two bolts. The same idea works to get the new alternator/water pump belt on. You want the belts fairly tight. Check the tightness of the belts after about an hour of use. They may need tightening.
Good Luck and BE CAREFULL if you work without the right front tire on. It might be possible to put the car up on ramps if you dont want to remove the tire. If you do make good and sure it is steady up on the ramps!

Toyota Echo

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