Toyota Echo

hilmer · February 2006

Larry, glad to help.

John

nippononly · March 2006

NOT get a 60K mile service, as it turns out, but instead just got fresh oil and air filter. Odo is at 64K now. The dealer wants to do a "full cooling system flush" for $125, but I have a coupon for just a coolant dump and refill with fresh, for $49.95. Recommendations, anyone?

I will replace the spark plugs myself, but I have no way to properly catch and recycle the coolant, so I would just as soon pay them to do that part.

Startling fuel economy continues, by the way. Last single tank was at 41.5 mpg, I am finally getting the hang of this. It does make a difference whether I drive it like a little race car or keep the revs down for frugality's sake. ;-)

Running average moves up slightly, just a hair below 40. :-)

kneisl1 · March 2006

The owners manual doesnt say anything about $125 for a coolant flush. It just says to change the coolant. If you knew how easy it was to change the coolant yourself. All you have to do is open the radiator drain valve and all the coolant runs out. The dealer tried to scare my wife into thinking you need a special technique to refill it. Not so IME. I brought the old stuff to a gas station and they recycled it. $8.
Others tings to do at 60k miles: check valve adjustment, change manual transmission oil, change sparkplugs, change air filter. I think it would be a good idea to look in the owners manual and check all the things they tell you to check at 60k miles. I would look the belts over but theyre probably OK.

nippononly · March 2006

Yeah, that's what I figured. I know how to change coolant, I just have nothing to catch it in, and for the $49.95 they also check the belts and hoses (I checked them when I bought the car, and they were fine) and refill any fluids that are low. I figure I buy a container and then pay someone to recycle the coolant, that's $20, whereas for $50 I can save a half hour of my time and they can fill up the windshield washer tank as well! OK, I'm lazy too. :-)

I looked in the manual, and came to the same conclusion as you. Plugs (which I will do myself, as they want almost $100 to do that!!), air filter (already done), change manual trans oil and check valve adjustment (two items I am probably going to just get lazy on). Manual transmission oil can go much longer than the manufacturer-recommended intervals, based on my experience with Toyotas over the years, and as for checking valve adjustment, well sheesh. For the price of a valve adjustment on this thing, I might just let them go out of adjustment and hope for another 50K miles before one burned out. Not a super-smart attitude, I will be the first to say, but more a question of playing the odds and hoping to win! :-P

reba05 · March 2006

I have 2 issues. 2003 Echo with 51,500 miles. When I put the car in drive or am accelerating, there is a belt or something that is making noise, almost a scratchy/sickly sound. It gets better as the car warms up but its still there whenever I am accelerating. It doesn't happen when I touch the gas lightly or when I gun it, only at mid-acceleration. Has anyone else had this happen?? Would you know what belt I should check?

Other issue is when looking for this problem, we noticed that the engine shifts about 2 inches when in park, and shifting between reverse, neutral, and drive. I know this is supposed to happen but the movement seems rather significant compared to our other vehicle. Is this typical for a Toyota or could it be a broken engine mount? Any advice is appreciated!

nippononly · March 2006

That could certainly be a broken engine mount, although two inches of movement doesn't sound like a huge amount. The only way to know is to actually examine the mounts!

As for the squeaky sound, if it doesn't make the sound when you gun it, it might not be the belts. I would suspect an idler in that case. Can you duplicate the sound with the car sitting still? If so, do it and listen for exactly where the sound is coming from.

kneisl1 · March 2006

i think you will be OK to let the valve adjustment go. In a motorcycle with the same shim arrangement, they typically stay good for a LONG time. However CHECKING the clearances is VERY east about as hard as changing the spark plugs. All you have to do is RandR the valve cover (under the plastic cover!) ADJSUTING the clearance is something I would not want to do on the ECHO because you cant access the right side of the eengine very well.

tundradude · March 2006

I finally read all 4923.

kneisl1 · March 2006

How long did it take?

nippononly · March 2006

with a handle like tundradude, has a big truck, surely, not an Echo?

tundradude · March 2006

about a month.

Even though my handle is tundradude, and my 02 Tundra (25,800 miles) pulls my RV around, my daily driver is a xB (12,400). I always like to see how the Echo is doing since my car is basically the xbox Echo.

It appears that my xB should last a long long time with the reliability ratings of the ECHO. My 95 Corolla currently has 188,400 on it. I have owned 14 Toyotas and 1 Scion or 15 Toyotas, and I have always liked good gas mileage cars.

kneisl1 · March 2006

Good man! (people seem to like the ECHO, eh?)

nippononly · March 2006

Echo, but I don't like to capitalize all the letters - ECHO. I know that's the way Toyota spelled it, but it hurts my eyes! :-P

I love the xA, and I like the looks of the new Yaris too. If I weren't such a stickler for having cruise control, one of those two would definitely be my next car. I just happened to get one of those Echos sold by SET that had port-installed cruise, otherwise I probably wouldn't have discovered the magic of this little car. Peppy, great fuel economy, comfortable inside, and genuinely light in a world of behemoths. Good stereo too. The xA's stereo is excellent - I just sampled it the other day.

kneisl1 · March 2006

Whats SET?

nippononly · March 2006

is South East Toyota, or whatever it is actually called. You know, how the Toyotas in certain southern states are not sold by Toyota Motor Sales USA, but by the southeastern distributor instead? And people are always complaining because every Toyota down there comes straight from the dealer with all sorts of port-installed add-ons like pinstriping and silly stuff. But one thing they also do is put cruise in cars that don't otherwise offer it as an option, I guess. I know they do that with a lot of the Scions, and Scions wind up costing more down there. So anyway, it LOOKS like a Toyota cruise stalk, except it is on the wrong side of the steering column. Works well, though.

I honestly don't understand why Toyota offers factory cruise on every single one of its models except all the cars with the 1.5L engine. Dumb.

kneisl1 · March 2006

They do consumer surveys before they sell anything here in the US. Probably the majority of the people who took the survey said CC wasnt important enough to them in a small economy car.
I agree the "loading up" of unwanted options is dispicible. So is the Toyota habit of lumping together packages of things not all of which you want and charging $2500 for it.

nippononly · March 2006

would probably add $200 or less to the price of a power package. It's possible that price is the reason they don't even make it available, but I think maybe it's something else. I just can't imagine what.

Word in the Yaris thread is they are arriving at dealers in about 2 weeks. I am curious to see what they have changed from my car.

rwgreenberg · March 2006

Hi. I posted this a few weeks ago in the Problems area - but got no takers - so here goes.

I have a 2003 Echo and love it. I have not gone back to dealer for anything since purchase - don't trust the dealership service at all (not that I have given them a chance, but have had numerous past bad experiences with dealership service departments). Anyway, I see that there is a recall to do some kind of corrosion protection routine. Has anyone had this done? Is this a waste of time? If you had it done, did the service department screw up anything in the process? Thanks for advice/feedback. Rich

nippononly · March 2006

It's free, it's recommended by Toyota, why not do it?

Mine was not recalled, so I have not had any personal experience of it, sorry.

scjfan · March 2006

I received the recall letter from Toyota last December for my 2003 Echo, and contacted two local Toyota dealers for the warranty work. The first one refused to honor the work saying the recall only apply to certain geographical regions not to all Echos. The second dealer set up an appointment and ordered the parts. The repair was done in the same day, and the dealer did a very good job. When I got the car back, the interior looked as though it had not been touched despite some minor scratches on the plastic trims. When I turned on the heat, I could smell an ordor but only for few days. I assumed it came from the glue. Overall I was very satisfied with this dealer's work. I guess it all depends on which dealer you go to. I would highly recommend you to have the repair done.

Please go to the web site http://www.echodrivers.com/ and look under the General Discussions section. There is a thread at the top that deals with this recall with some interesting photos.

kneisl1 · March 2006

Just make sure this doesnt turn into an oppertunity for the dealer to "inspect" your car and "recommend" additional work (that you will PAY for) My dealer presented with a straight face an estimate for $8000 to my daughter for her 92 Camry worth $2000. She made the mistake of taking it there for an oil change.

scjfan · March 2006

The dealer did not harass me at all. I just got the repair invoice and the car key from the cashier without paying a penny, and my car was already waiting for me at the front door.

I always maintain the car by myself. That was the first repair done at a dealer. I was kind of worry about my first dealer experience prior bringing in the car, but, it turned out well.

Echo is inexpensive to buy, mechanically reliable, easy to maintain, comfortable to drive, and fuel efficient.

Too bad it is no longer made.

kneisl1 · March 2006

I hit a big green trash can the other day with the right outside rearview mirror. Just the glass was broken. When ordering a new glass on the internet (using the VIN number) they sent the wrong glass and I had to send it back. Going to the dealer last week they ALSO ordered the wrong piece even though they had the VIN. Apparently they used the correct number to order. Does anyone know a place I can get the CORRECT glass for my mirror? (or at least the entire outside right mirror assembly?) It is the non adjustable type.

nomoney · March 2006

go to car-part.com, type in the required info
i.e. rearview mirror, several junkyards will
respond with matches and prices for the part
you need. the parts are from wrecks, so they
are an exact match.
good luck. hope you find your part.

kneisl1 · March 2006

Thanks that looks like a great site. I have bookmarked it for future use. (Im too old to go to junkyards pulling parts anymore) I DID manage to find an aftermarket sourse for a mirror in the meantime. They sent the drivers side instead of the passengers though. Sent it back. If I dont get the right one Ill try car-parts.

nippononly · March 2006

my little car goes in for its first servicing this Friday. They are going to change the coolant, the oil, and the spark plugs, and do basic visual checks and fluid topping. This complements the new air filter it had when I picked it up, and is all it will get for now. The dealer tried to talk me into fresh brake fluid and transmission oil, but since the manual only says "inspect" them, not replace them, at 60K (the service that was omitted - I bought the car at 60K), I am going to skip them for now. Then I am going to drive it for a while with just oil changes and tire rotations until 90K, when it will get the full deal maintenance.

I bought the car to be inexpensive to buy and maintain, so I am disinclined to do more than that for the first year. Plus, that will be the necessary work to maintain my emissions and "Toyota certified" powertrain warranty.

kneisl1 · March 2006

I agree thats probably all you need. Especially if the car is used mostly for long distance driving. But in the meantime before 90k you might look into doing these things yourself. Its not hard, it saves a lot of money (if Toyota does it) you know the work is done right, and its good therapy. (for you and the car!
PS I dont think the guy who advised you to change the brake fluid and transmission oil was giving you a bum steer. If you saw what your brake/clytch fluid looked like you might agree! Auto trans doesnt need changing but the manaul would benefit.

nippononly · March 2006

Yeah, I know what they look like, I used to do all this stuff myself. These days it is just so hard to find the time, so I pay the dealership to do it. I use the car for freeway commuting, no stop-and-go and no really short trips. I figure in the worst case scenario the car has never had fresh manual trans oil or brake fluid, but I am betting both can make it to 90K from the factory. Manual transmissions are tough, and I have never changed manual transmissions oil more frequently than 60-75K miles. Brake fluid goes more by years than miles, and the car has only been in service for 3 1/2 years. The 90K will likely come up around 4 1/2 years. I might end up doing the 90K maintenance a bit early, we'll see.

Checked the oil yesterday just to see if it used any before they change it, and in 5K miles it hasn't used a drop. Good news. I keep having to chuckle when I pull out that plastic dipstick. Whether the use of plastic was for weight or economizing reasons, do people agree with me that they went a bit far there?

kneisl1 · March 2006

>hasnt used a drop (of oil)<

You gotta love this car! I dont understand the plastic dipstick either. Its very hard to read especially with fresh oil. My wifes Camry has a metal dipstick with a white plastic oil dipper on the end. (so it can fall off into the oil when it gets older)
One thing I liked about the ECHO the first time I saw it is that a lot of attention was paid to making the car LIGHT. (hard to understand how the plastic dipstick does that. Maybe it does) That is the key to fuel economy. The fact that the car does pretty good in crash tests tells me a lot of thought went into this car.

nippononly · March 2006

I appreciate IMMENSELY all the attention that was given to making light weight a priority in this car, it is part of the reason I bought it. And I suppose a plastic dipstick does weigh an ounce less than one made of metal, but again, maybe that was going a little too far!

Alas, my chronic-car-buying eyes are already straying to the new Yaris. The liftback puts on less weight than I thought - about 200 pounds more than my 4-door Echo, part of which is the standard A/C, I am sure. That A/C probably makes the actual weight of my car more like 2120 pounds, so the weight increase is around 170 pounds. Same engine, the clock is now standard! The inside looks less plasticky and more stylish, the wheels are 15-inch if you get the package with the CD and rear wiper as I probably would, and there are cute alloys available as an option if you spend the extra $500. Oh how will I be able to resist this next year? I am still hoping to keep the Echo for 3 years, as I really like it. But a liftback at $12,3 as I have described it is very tempting. Longo Toyota in LA already has one equipped exactly that way. Most of what they ordered were sedans, of course. I might go for the sedan, simply because it has a tach where the 3-door doesn't, but it is an extra grand.

Anyway, I am going to mile up the Echo with my typical driving patterns, so when it crosses the 100K mile threshold and the certified warranty expires, I might be out shopping...

:-)

kneisl1 · March 2006

Nippononly Ive read your posts in the Yaris section! Sounds to me like you are going to be driving a Yaris sooner than later! Well if you do keep your ear to the ground about the possibility of a diesel Yaris. I know it isnt going to happen. The reason is Toyota has bamboozled Americans into thinking a hybrid is a viable vehicle (which it most surely is NOT) A diesel Yaris would prove it beyond all doubt!

nippononly · March 2006

so I got the car back from the servicing today, and it uses iridium plugs! Pricey - that was $105 including parts and labor - my fault for being lazy and not doing it myself.

Fresh coolant cost me $49.95. So, not too bad, and that is the last I intend to do except oil changes and tire rotations until 90K. Besides, it is dangerous for me going over there - I keep hanging around the Yaris's! I can't wait to see the hatch - apparently dealers are getting their first ones next week. :-)

kneisl1 · March 2006

If you got an oil change, sparkplug change, and a coolant change at the Toyota dealer for $105 you did pretty good. I was thinking like $400. (although the parts I did mine with last year cost less than $20 and that included genuine Toyota coolant for $12...thankyou Pep Boys!)
I wonder what year your ECHO is though. My 2001 came with regular plugs (.89 cents each) and the owners manual says change every 30k miles. Maybe the newer ones get iridium plugs. I would still remove and clean the threads every couple of years though.

nippononly · March 2006

Mine is an '02, and the plugs they removed were iridium, so that is what they put in as replacements. Supposedly I don't need to change them again for pretty much the life of the car. :-P

Knowing me, I will almost certainly have sold my Echo before another 100K miles rolls off the odo, so I will only ever have to do that once. HOWEVER, had I know they were iridiums, I probably would have opted to just leave them in there, as those are supposed to be 100K-mile plugs. The maintenance schedule is written for Echos that have the $0.89 plugs like yours. It calls for replacement every 30K to maintain the emissions warranty.

Anyway, that's done. And no, it was not $105, the plug replacement by itself was $105. The total was just shy of $200, including the fluid changes you mentioned and checking tires, other fluids, and belts, and greasing my very loud, very cranky front door hinges on both sides of the car. Now they are silent, and I like the car that much more for it. :-)

nippononly · April 2006

so the last time I filled up, I thought the mileage was too good to be true (41.5 mpg), and tonight's fill-up confirmed that last time the pump must have stopped too soon, as the average came out to 37 tonight.

Assuming it was full tonight (which it looked to be on the gauge - above the 'F'), I guess that gives a running average of 39.25 mpg over the last 750 miles. Not too bad. And I wonder if the maintenance service it had during this tank reduced the mileage at all. I guess they probably don't spend too much time just idling the engine, do they? So probably not.

I am waiting for the oil companies to switch over to the summer gas - I know we have it in California, but I have never really paid attention to the date of its arrival. I am wondering if I can eke out an extra point then, and achieve a solid 40+ mpg during the summer months.

Meanwhile, it could be my imagination, but it seems to be starting a little easier, especially when cold, with the new plugs. It fires up with pretty much no cranking at all.

Alas, I am returning to my former speedy ways - raced a kid with a BMW 318 up the freeway on-ramp tonight just for the fun of it (I won, he looked surprised :-)) - there's no substitute for light weight, none, and third gear in this car just goes on and on. But if I allow those bad habits to return, I am never going to be able to nudge the running average over 40 mpg!

kneisl1 · April 2006

Is that 40 mpg in fifth gear on the freeway, or driving in local traffic?
On the garden State Parkway (which is six lanes in spots) my little ECHO cruises in the left lane with the BMWs, Audis, and sports cars. I go about 80, pulling over for faster cars, but passing on the right and weaving in and out of traffic to get around slower cars. Once a Saab I believe, refused to either pull over or let me pass. He sped up as I sped up. So I put my foot on the floor until he dropped back. When I could take my eyes off the road and looked at the speedo, it said 106! I once beat some kind of sports car to a spot to pass when we both saw it at the same time. I cut him off and he had to drop back in traffic and never caught up. The ECHO got there faster! The ECHO is a wonderfull car for this kind of game.

nippononly · April 2006

is my current average, a running average in all suburban driving. I have almost no stop-and-go in my commute, which is short (about 5 miles) anyway. The running average floats up and down in the 39-39.5 mpg range. This car is very consistent about delivering the goods when it comes to excellent fuel efficiency - each tank of gas falls within about a point of the running average.

Can I make the 40 mpg running average on summer gas? I dunno. Once the real heat starts, I am not one to spare the A/C, so any improvement from the summer gas may be offset by increased A/C useage. But several people posted here that they get better mpg in summer than in winter.

kneisl1 · April 2006

How fast do you go? I have a 6.5 mile commute with about a dozen or so lights. I go 45 mph top speed with stretches of 25-35.

nippononly · April 2006

is freeway - I live near the freeway, and my office is just off the freeway. The pace is 60-65 mph at the hour I go to work.

We have some shaded parking at work, so if I get a shady spot I won't necessarily run the A/C in the afternoon or when I go out to lunch, but I am not usually that lucky.

babyboomer · April 2006

So what are the performance differences between winter and summer gasoline formulations?

All I found was this:

EPA proposes easing gasoline formulation

Jan 1, 2002 12:00 PM

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is proposing to make it easier for tank terminal operators to make the transition from winter- to summer-grade reformulated gasoline (RFG). This action will require tank terminals to accept only summer-grade RFG beginning April 15 of each year. Currently, there is not a specific date that terminals must begin receiving summer-grade RFG. However, tanks at terminals must contain only summer-grade RFG by May 1.

Terminal operators typically draw down their levels of winter-grade gasoline as May 1 approaches, causing an abrupt reduction in gasoline inventories. This proposal would increase the amount of time terminals have to make the changeover from winter- to summer-grade RFG. The proposal also requests comments on a number of transition alternatives associated with the RFG program. The proposal is available at www.epa.gov/otaq/rfg.htm.

kneisl1 · April 2006

http://epa.gov/otag/regs/fuels/rfg/qa/qa050296.txt

Karen_S · April 2006

A large local newspaper is looking to interview consumers who purchased a Lexus, Toyota or Scion vehicle and what led you to purchase that vehicle. Please send an e-mail to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Wednesday, April 5, 2006 containing your daytime contact information, along with the make and model your vehicle.

Thanks,
Chintan Talati
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com

babyboomer · April 2006

Charging cell phone blew fuse twice in my 2001 Echo. Why?

kneisl1 · April 2006

Does your cell phone do the same thing in other cars? ie blow the fuse?

nippononly · April 2006

I charge mine without a problem in the car.

babyboomer · April 2006

New recharging cord solved the problem.

bblake · April 2006

I am interested in buying a used Toyota Echo (Sedan), but need a car that can carry a canoe on top safely. Has anyone carried a canoe(on roof rack) of their echo? Does the wind catch under it and push the car around?

Thanks for any advice related to this.

Bailey

kneisl1 · April 2006

I have car toped canoes on my 1974 VW Beetle and 1980 Subaru Hatchback. I would not hesitate to put a canoe on top of my ECHO either. I would not however take that combination on the interstate at 75 mph. Do you have much experience cartopping a canoe?

echobaby · April 2006

Did anyone see the latest Chevy Suburban commercial? I saw it on the Bob Vila show this past weekend, hopefully this weekend they'll show the commercial again.

There are several of the newer model Echos in the commercial. They're traveling to the left of the Suburban. Soooo adorable! I wasn't paying too much attention to the commercial because I was trying to spot the Echos. The commercial had something to do with the roominess of the Suburban and how it takes so many of the smaller cars, the Echos, to match the carrying capacity of the Suburban. I think the advertisers missed their mark. I was much more interested in the Echos than in the product they're were trying to sell.

kneisl1 · April 2006

Never saw that commercial. Ironic that a gas guzzling SUV would use an ECHO as a prop!

Toyota Echo

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