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Toyota Echo

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  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    is a pretty good proposition for a whole bunch of people, but not for those that want a no-frills car. Think of the Prius as an Echo 5-door with luxury amenities and proper room for 4 full-size adults. Actually, that's not really an appropriate comparison because the Prius has so much more interior space. The closest 5-door out there today is Toyota's own Matrix, and with approximately the same acceleration times as the Echo, the Matrix only manages to pull low 30s in mpg. So the Prius, consistently pulling mid 40s for most owners, offers a vehicle with 30% savings in gas and a number of extra luxury features for maybe $4000 more than a comparably sized car.

    Why would one even compare Echo and Prius? Because they are the respective fuel economy leaders in gas and hybrid cars? Not enough of a reason - the Prius is in a completely different class of size and features.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    They said they made it to get superior gas mileage so that is how I judge it. Yes the interior is nice, elegant and understated.
  • dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    Hi guys please let me have your input on the check engine light that just came on.

    Car is manual 2000 w/ 69,000mi

    1. It came on while driving (actually watched it come on).

    2. If it is relevant, it also came on while I had been driving a while with the gas warning light flashing (maybe 10 miles). Owners manual says the light can come on when totally out of gas (it wasn't--only took ten gallons). Maybe this triggered it (?), but would it reset or not after fill up? (It did not.)

    3. Everything runs/sounds great as far as I can tell.

    If I recall there is an autostore that will read code for free? If so, do you know it?

    Also, if I get it looked at, do I need to go to a dealer, or can any mechanic check it?

    Thanks for your help.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Autozone will read the code for free. I have what the codes mean in the service manual. Check that your gas cap gasket is good a common problem. (it might be torn or distorted)
    I believe you can disconnect the negative terminal of the battery and that will reset the computer. If the light comes on again then theres a problem.
    Possible the low gas situation caused something but lots of people run their cars like that. (dumb on several levels)
    Good luck and please report back!
  • dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    Thanks. Those're all good tips. Fortunately I don't have to go in to work tomorrow so I will try all of the above and get back to you.
  • dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    Autozone read the code as p 0171 which meant lean fuel mixture. They thought in all probability this had to do with the low gas level in the car when the light came on (guess I'll fill up at 1/4 tank from now on) and that once reset, if it didnt come back on, things should be fine. Otherwise it would be the O2 sensor. Fortunately, the light has not come back on--let's hope it stays that way. Thanks again kneisl1.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Hopefully its out for good and it does sound plausible the low gas level was the reason. But give it time! It may come on again. Not to worry we will fix it.
    Its not a good idea to run your car so far out of gas the fuel light comes on because:

    1) When it gets that low if there is any sediment/water in the tank that crud might get sucked into the system.
    2) The fuel pump is in the tank and it runs cooler/longer if submerged in gas.
    3) You are BEGGING the car to run out of gas. If that happens it might be very difficult to start it when you do put some gas in there.
  • dakedake Member Posts: 131
    Alrighty, I'll post this over on the Yaris forum too, but for those who are curious, the '08 Camry switch works in the Yaris! So, my wife is now the proud owner of one of the only Yaris with variable speed intermittent wipers!

    I had a buddy at the dealer who ordered it in for me, it's regularly 150 bucks, but I got his shop price on it, so that was nice. They're a huge dealer, but they still had to get the part from Japan, since it's so new. Works and looks great though.
  • dakedake Member Posts: 131
    Oh, and the part # is 84652-47031 Switch, Windshield
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Thought I burned out my wiper motor last night. Ice was forecast so I parked my wipers vertically to make it easier to get them unstuck from the windshield. Problem was when I came out to the car there was two inches of ice at the base of the wipers! So when I turned on the ignition the wipers tried to park themselves only they couldnt move. It was all I could do to get a 12 inch hole in the ice I could see out of so I could drive home. All the way home the wipers were trying to park. Half an hour of driving didnt put a dent in the ice. But this morning the ice was all gone (heavy rain) and the wipers worked. Hurray! I consulted the Service Manual for how to replace the motor. (it doesnt show you!) Next time that happens I will just remove the fuse!
  • babyboomerbabyboomer Member Posts: 205
    My son and his wife have driven the ECHO since last Christmas. He was telling me yesterday via phone that they found the "hidden" drawer under the passenger seat. He said that the wife loves all those storage spaces and that car makers should design future cars with plenty of them. But best of all they love the ECHO's ability to not visit gas stations very often.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Hmmm I'll wait for an episode of COPS where the perp is driving an ECHO and see if he stashes his drugs under the passanger seat.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    That drawer is great - it holds 12 CDs easy and has a detente so it won't slide out unexpectedly. Don't know why they eliminated so many of all the great storage spots when they updated it as the Yaris for '07.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • dgecho1dgecho1 Member Posts: 49
    2002 echo with ac, at, 3 in1 cd/radio/cassette, split rear seat, new tires and brakes, spoiler, clock, rear defroster.....84,400 miles....front bumper has a couple of cracks but carfax is clean,...chicago area..thanks in advance!!
    Don
  • dgecho1dgecho1 Member Posts: 49
    oops! $4500 for this '02 echo
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    If the car is in good mechanical condition $4500 is a fair price. Check and see if the valve clearances have been checked at 60,000 miles. That is an expensive check I think.
  • dgecho1dgecho1 Member Posts: 49
    NO AC but it is a AT in excellent condition....single owner and clean carfax...opinions? GOOD echos are all selling quick!!
  • babyboomerbabyboomer Member Posts: 205
    2007 Toyota iQ concept car is next generation of Echo?

    http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/09/12/frankfurt-2007-toyota-iq-concept-details- -and-pics/
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    I would buy one but Im afraid my ECHO is going to laast another 13 years so they might not be around then... :D
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    European Aygo could be the next Echo. Cute little car, roomy but small for easy city driving and geat fuel economy.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • babyboomerbabyboomer Member Posts: 205
    This review of the Aygo reminds me of the ECHO reviews. Was there ever a pro reviewer who did not trash the ECHO? Most buyers loved the ECHO but the media did not. Manufacturers rather sell the more profitable SUVs so ads for the smaller models are very limited. I remember seeing my first ECHO at a dealership and since nobody mentioned it I had to ask the saleman what it was. I had not heard or seen anything about the ECHO before that day. Will the high price of fuel be the end of the love affair with the huge SUVs? Will there ever be a luxury car the size of the ECHO?

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/toyota-aygo-review/
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Well the reviewer in your linked article sounds European. I think most of the nice things he says about the Aygo would not be repeated by the speed mavens at the buff books here in the U.S.

    The things that I think are the strongest traits of the Echo - light weight, maneuverability, high fuel economy, low emissions, cheap to insure and run - are not attributes appreciated by the "professional reviewers" in America. Luckily, those traits ARE appreciated by a growing crowd of the buying public.

    I would love to see the Aygo come to the States, whether as the next Echo or just as itself.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Actually a bare majority of the articles I read about the ECHO eight years ago were positive. Sure there were negative ones (Edmunds most memorably) but many many writers recognized what a great little car the ECHO is. Not that they themselves would buy and drive an ECHO most likely, but they did widely acknowledge its roomy cabin, Toyota reliability, outstanding fuel economy, and spritely engine. It WAS pretty depressing to read the negative ones.
  • babyboomerbabyboomer Member Posts: 205
    Here is part of the 2001 Edmunds review of the ECHO. What impression do you get from it?

    "What Edmunds.com says
    We don't like the Echo. Check out the superior offerings from Hyundai and Kia.
    Pros
    Good gas mileage, speedy acceleration, roomy and functional interior, likely to be reliable.
    Cons
    Cartoonish styling, annoying gauge placement, tilt-a-whirl handling, deceptively low base pricing. "
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Superior offerings from Hyundai and Kia? Are you KIDDING me? The Pros are just about everything you could want in a car. Except of course the ECHO has no macho image to tell you you are the hottest thing on the road. I have to admit the ECHO is pretty much in your face if you value that sort of thing. If you are insecure in that area youll have a hard time rationalizing an ECHO.
  • dakedake Member Posts: 131
    Ha! Yeah, you have to laugh at that. How many of those Hyundais and Kias are still rolling around compared to Echos with comparable mileage?

    Yeah, the Echo's funny lookin', but like you said, if you get your self-worth from how your car looks, you've got bigger issues. I love the center-mounted instrument cluster, and I wonder why all cars aren't made that way - it's especially nice for night driving.

    The one fault in the Echo is it's high roof-line allows it to get blown about a bit on the highway, which could be disconcerting if you weren't ready for it. Beyond that, I love mine.
  • dgecho1dgecho1 Member Posts: 49
    the echo I have just bought - 05 AT coupe..no AC or PS....seems to have better seals on windows,steers with distinctly less 'float' at interstate speeds than the '00 and'02 I had earlier.....paint is flawless - not even dings on the hood!

    Anyone have experience with both models to know if subtle changes or quality improvements were done in the last model year or two...or is all of this my imagination??!!?? :confuse:
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    As far as I know the only changes were sheet metal ones. That year ECHOs are much rarer I think they only sold 5000 or so the last year as opposed to 50,000 a year the first couple of years.
  • rep5858rep5858 Member Posts: 45
    I read about the Aygo. It's a joint effort between Toyota, Citreon, and Peugot. It's manufactured at the old Yugo plant in the Czech republic. The car gets a combined 62 mpg. It looks just like a Yaris but has a 3 cylinder vvt-i engine and lightweight metal skin. It also has a 1.4 diesel that gets even better mpg
    Two reasons why I think Toyota is not selling them here: They make more money on the gas guzzlers( still) and the emissions may be a problem, although European governments focus more on emissions than mpg ??
    Toyota is a master at manufacturing reliable fuel efficient cars around the world. I guess American car buyers are not interested in those attributes just vehicles that are mean looking , are fast and can intimidate other drivers.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Bingo. Americans are not interested in such a car as the Aygo. That is the SOLE reason. Toyota went out on a limb with the ECHO and it failed in America. Now gas is $3.35 a gallon (diesel $4.24!) and going nowhere but UP! What would the price of oil be today if everyone bought an ECHO (or a car like it) in 2000? WAKE UP YOU BLOCKHEADS!
  • GrumblesharkGrumbleshark Member Posts: 8
    Sorry this reaction is SO delayed.
    I often exceed 80, but average between 70 and 80. I just hit 150,000 miles on my Echo.

    Mine is a 2000. How can this car possibly achieve 40 miles per gallon??? I'm not being a jerk, I'm seriously interested! I get about 27 at this point. 27-30 at best.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    That is seriously lousy mileage for an Echo. I would suspect that something is actually wrong with it, but if that has been the mileage for a long time, then it is probably just your driving pattern and habits. For instance, consistent 80-mph-running on the highway will knock your long-term average down by several points. So will lots of short trips in town, espcecially if you have cold winters where you are.

    And if you have an automatic, it has become apparent to me from reading here that the Echo autos do significantly worse for gas mileage than the stick shifts do.

    My long-term average is 41 mpg, an average which now covers about 40K miles. I obey speed limits, exceeding them only to pass. I don't execute jackrabbit starts, I keep the car tuned up and the tires inflated to Toyota's recommended pressure plus two psi. Apart from that I do nothing special. I am lucky in that I have a commute that rarely includes stop-and-go, and is only 5 miles long.

    Having owned the Echo for a few years now, I look around and am really disgusted at the lousy choices we have for new cars that are fuel-efficient. My Echo was designed to its spec more than eight years ago, and in that almost-decade no-one has been able to beat its fuel economy with a gas-only powertrain. In fact in California, I don't even have diesel choices, so that leaves me with just two to pick from: the Civic and Prius hybrids. And even they only average 5-7 points better than the Echo I already own, and cost twice what it did.

    I sure hope the next 8 years see a LOT more automakers taking fuel economy seriously.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    meechity I would have a compression check done on the engine. You can buy a gauge yourself just get one that will fit into the rather deep sparkplug wells on the ECHO engine. I have to believe you need a valve job on that engine. If not that, something is seriously wrong!
  • babyboomerbabyboomer Member Posts: 205
    Expensive Combustion = Hybrid Option?
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Excellent Choice Humble Owner

    :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • hughmungushughmungus Member Posts: 3
    Every Consumer Has Options
  • babyboomerbabyboomer Member Posts: 205
    What if Toyota had made an ECHO Hybrid?
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    They did - it was called the (first generation) Prius. Same platform, pretty much the same chassis, same engine block with a different head for lean running.

    The funny thing was that with the primitive state of hybrid technology in 1997, the Echo when it arrived in 2000 could often match the fuel economy of the Prius! Of course, the Prius had a weight disadvantage with the battery pack and whatnot, and the Prius had a lot more standard and optional equipment.

    And with its engine shutdown feature, it would beat the Echo for gas mileage if one's driving was mostly in the city or stop and go traffic.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • santeemamasanteemama Member Posts: 2
  • santeemamasanteemama Member Posts: 2
    Sorry folks, my first post and I hit 'enter' when I wanted to skip down to write the message. Anyway, here's my plight. I've always liked the Echo and of course, I want the fuel economy. My husband drives a 2005 Prius and it's been a great car. Now my daughter is looking for a first car. There is a 1 owner 2000 Echo for sale at a reasonable price but it has 147,000 miles on it. Am I foolish to consider it? I've checked the Carfax and it's clean. How many of you have Echos still going strong after that mileage and do you have a lot of maintenance and trouble with you car? I'd love as much feedback as soon as possible. Thanks.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    Please provide a little more info - auto or manual, does it have repair/maintenance records, who maintained, where was it driven, lots of short trips or long ones, etc.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Mine is at 100K without having needed any repair at all. Maintenance has been very cheap. There was a guy on here a little while back with over 200K miles on his that had never needed more than a couple bucks in repairs too - I forget exactly what he said, but you could scroll back and look for it.

    All in all, I would not hesitate to recommend a well cared for, 147K Echo. If the maintenance has been there, the thing is probably good for another 100K at least.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    As a design the ECHO is a great package and that includes quality construction second to none. While I would hope to still have mine at 147k miles...that doesnt mean all of them will achieve that without trouble. The truth is theres no way to tell what the ECHO you are looking at will do. We have no idea how it was driven and maintained. Therefore any prognostications are meaningless. Yes, the ECHO is a great little car...but no, theres no way of knowing if the one you are looking at is a dog or not.
  • highmiler650highmiler650 Member Posts: 75
    Very good advice kneisl1.

    I sold my 2001 Echo with 187K miles and it did not require any repairs at all, NONE.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Awesome!
  • dakedake Member Posts: 131
    150k on a Toyota is like 75k on many other cars. Assuming your daughter will drive the standard or less mileage, it could be five years before she tops the 200k mark.
    Ask if you can take it to a mechanic and have them go over it (honestly, if the seller refuses, that's a red flag right there). In the end, if the price is right I think it's not a bad idea. It's a great first car for sure.
  • babyboomerbabyboomer Member Posts: 205
    Small cars (like the ECHO) are going up in demand and price while demand and prices for SUVs are going down?
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    True, I think, although it is much more dramatically true on the SUV side than it is on the small car side.

    And it doesn't seem to be reflected yet in on-line resources like Kelly Blue Book.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    True, I think, although it is much more dramatically true on the SUV side than it is on the small car side.

    And it doesn't seem to be reflected yet in on-line resources like Kelly Blue Book.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • dakedake Member Posts: 131
    Missed this post earlier, but to Echo (har har) the previous statements, cruising at 70+ will seriously degrade your fuel economy. Parasite drag increases exponentially with speed so twice the speed equals four times the drag and so on. So the drag increase between 60 and 70 mph is MUCH higher than between 50 and 60, to say nothing of between 70 and 80. It's simple physics.

    image

    This primarily effects the top speed of a vehicle where it requires a virtually infinite amount of power to push an extra mph higher. The flip side is, it also requires much more gas to provide that power.

    My 2001 Automatic Echo got 42 mpg on a road trip once but I didn't spend much time at all above 70 mph. Around town I average 31'ish but I've got bigger tires now and tend to accelerate harder and drive faster - though I'm making an effort to cut back on that again!

    So, while the mileage on your Echo may be a contributing factor, a far bigger component is your speed.
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