Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

valueguy · February 2002

The Yoko AVS DB is an excellent tire but what do you think of its appearance? Also, why does this tire have better traction ratings than most "Max" tires including the Dunlop? Usually, tires that last longer do not stick as well as those that require more frequent replacement. I wish tirerack had an owner's feedback section for this tire so I could compare the comments with the Dunlop 9000. It seems odd that the All-Season Yoko would outperform the "Max" rated Yoko in most categories.

mbdriver · February 2002

You hit the nail . . . As you said, there's lots of emotion involved when it comes to cars, and if the tread pattern on a given tire turns you on, so be it! I think emotion was the basic reason I "upgraded" to 17" wheels for my E320 (I hated the OEM wheels, especially cleaning them) -- and emotion had lots to do with my purchase of the Mercedes to start with!

Bottom line -- I think we'll both be happy with the tires of our choice. And since we're both driving cars that cost $50,000+, I guess a few bucks difference for tire choice doesn't really matter. So enjoy!

bargamon · February 2002

I just finished my first road trip with my new yoko's avs db's on my 01'430 and am really happy with the tire. Avg speed was 74 (on board computer reading) and averaged 25.5 mpg. I actually did about 80mph when I could. I had eagle f1s previously, and they were extreme to the performance, they were expensive to replace, real noisy, and had no all season tread. The yokos are not the highest rated in snow, but that is ok, they are great in the rain. This may sound funny, but they do look better on the sidewalls than the f1's. This tire better matches the character of the car which is performance, but also done with comfort. I love the tires and the pricing. I notice no drop off in cornering. quite frankly, I thought the F1's were too much tire for the car, or in that the car is not calibrated like a porche or corvette.

rbrenton88 · February 2002

These comments are very helpful. I will look into the Yoko's when it comes time to replace my F1's.
The comments on Tirerack are difficult to sort out. For any given tire, you have any number of rants and raves. There seems to be very rare consensus about any of them.

valueguy · February 2002

MB Driver, I found my next tire and it is a Michelin. I have decided to purchase the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S.

Your Yoko is a much better value than these Michelin tires. But, these tires have great ratings from www.tirerack.com and a wear rating of 400. The 'Max' version has a wear rating of 220 so I decided to purchase the All-Season version so I can get 30,000 miles out of these suckers. The handling, ride, and noise are exceptional with the Michelin Pilot Sport tire.

Those of you who want the name in tires, Michelin, should consider the pilot Sport A/S. The A/S even has a decent snow rating. The only down side is a set of 4 tires is much more than the Yoko's cost. However, the wear rating is better 400 vs. 320 and you get a Michelin; perhaps, the best tire Michelin has ever made. If money is no object then purchase the Michelin Pilot Sport (not the All-season one) and expect 10,000-15,000 miles of tire life.

MB Driver, I appreciate your input as I never even considered an all-season tire until I read your posts. Yoko AVS DB- $144 per tire vs. Michelin Pilot Sport A/S- $216.00 Yes, I realize you can buy 6 Yoko's for the price of 4 Michelin's
but the Michelin should last a bit longer (leaving the net difference of maybe 1 Yoko).

shipo · February 2002

In the end, you may find the Michelin tires to be less expensive than the Yoko tires. I say this because I have Michelin All Season tires with over 35,000 miles on my BMW. Said tires have a wear rating of 400, and at this point, it is fairly obvious that the front tires will last an easy 25,000 more while the rears will probably last another 10,000 (BMW does not recommend rotating your tires).

I suspect that if you rotate your Pilot Sport A/S tires, you should easily get 40 to 50 thousand miles on your E-Class for the set of tires.

Best Regards,
Shipo

valueguy · February 2002

I purchased the Michelin tires today. I will have them installed this Friday.

I located a replacement rim on www.aaarims.com
They have the stock sport rims for $275.00
This rim is exactly like mine except it has been "refurbished" to like new conditions.
My dealer wants $468 for a brand new one.
I am inclined to purchase the new one and send my old rim to the above mentioned company for re conditioning. Then, I will have an extra rim in case of damage.

Shipo, my 330 Convertible is due in two weeks.
Thanks for your input.

mbdriver · February 2002

Congrats on the new Michelins! Be sure to keep us posted regarding handling, ride, noise comfort and wear. I know that MB recommends comparatively low tire pressures, but suggest you experiment with 34 or 36 psi all around. I've heard it's one of the secrets to getting high mileage on a set of tires. I've done this with my Yokos, and it seems to work without a ride that's too harsh.

Shipo may be correct that you may be better off price-wise in the long run if you're able to get 40,000 to 50,000 miles on the Michelins. God luck.

stheodd1 · February 2002

Friday I traded in my Land Cruiser for a E320 4matic. I could not be happier. It is a pre-owned 2000. I have followed your tire conversations. I plan on using the stock wheels with a all season tire with decent traction characteristics in snow. I live in eastern PA. For summer I plan on buying the AMG sport wheel with an aggressive handling tire. I am undecided what brands at this time but I am sure your recommendations will help. My question is about wheel and tire size, especially width. I would like to go fairly wide with the tire. What size recommendations do you have?

Also has anyone tried the sport springs from Tire Rack? Do they stiffen the ride too much? I like a firm ride and really enjoy a flat handling car.
Thanks

valueguy · February 2002

I have the Sport Package. My car came with 235/45 17" tires. Go to www.tirerack.com for other tire sizes for your M-B. I thought about changing to 18" tires and rims but decided against it so my ride remains comfortable.

As for rim styles I like my sport rims. Brabus makes an 18" rim which looks just like my 17" stock M-B rim. www.aaarims has my rim for $275.00 each. I found quite a few sites that have AMG rims 17"-18" for $350-$400 each.
Personally, I think AMG rims look good on a Mercedes. I recommend you do a search under AMG rims for some good web retailers.

mbe320se · February 2002

Hi, I too have similar concerns as jsalemi regarding the cost/availability of an aftermarket cd changer for a 2002 E320. Currently there is no phone or COMMAND system (and never will be). Any help/suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks

jsalemi · February 2002

Well, we ordered our E320 last Saturday; we'll be picking it up on Feb. 26th (it's still on the boat crossing the great wide ocean). I decided to go with the dealer-installed CD changer after all -- the price we got on the whole package (E2 option, heated seats, and the CD changer) was just too good to mess around with aftermarket stuff. Besides, if it doesn't work it'll be easier to get support this way. :=}

The dealer has additional cartridges, and I've seen from some back discussions here that Circuit City also sometimes carries some that are compatible with the MB unit. So we just went for it.

---joe

dunninla · February 2002

This is a continutation of my post from Feb. 4.

Got a call from my wife just now. Seems one of our credit cards had two more yearly TeleAid charges. Recall I cancelled TeleAid, got a credit for the erroneous Year 2 charge of $258 and change, back in early January.

Now, they have charged me two additional times on the same card. I have been on hold for 10 minutes trying to get them to reverse these two charges like they did last time.

The whole TeleAid organization is an embarrassment to MBUSA, and MBUSA's relationship with these incompetent boobs should be terminated immediately.

jnee · February 2002

Hi everyone! Thanks to all those who post messages...I find them very helpful and don't know what I would do without them. I'm still learning a lot about my 2001 E320 4matic. Has anyone else had trouble trying to cancel tele aid? I plan on cancelling mine and would like to know how many others have had trouble cancelling tele aid.

hjborn · February 2002

As I recall, I had no trouble at all cancelling my Tele Aid service. Shortly before the first year was up on my 2000 E320, I received a form from Tele Aid concerning the extension. I simply checked off the box that said I didn't want to continue it, sent it in, and that was the last I heard from them. Of course, I watched my credit card account for a few months, but the charge never did appear. Incidentally, the service is a joke. I never used it the whole first year. I would have been happy to continue it for a fee-based service, say $5 a call or so, but not at the yearly fee they wanted.

paulchiu · February 2002

Anyone know if the E55 wagon will be available in the US in 2003?

bmms8 · February 2002

i called the 800 mb # yesterday and they said that the 2003 e-class wil be coming out in mid march-april, it is hard for me to believe that, only becaue my dealersaid around august, so iuf any one has any info on the new e-class, plese tell me, and if nobody knows anything about it, ad wantssoe general info go t msg: 2858, the germancar fan site is awesome

y2k4m · February 2002

I encountered something this past weekend that I have never seen before and thought I'd shoot it past the "experts" to see if anyone else has run across the same problem. When I went to fill up the gas tank it only registered 3/4 full, which I hadn't notice until after I paid and pulled away. Thinking that I had only partially filled the tank, I circled back to the gas station to top it off. After a few minutes of careful nursing I was only able to squeeze in an additional 1/2 gallon and still the gauge only read 3/4 full. I even looked at the computer reading of the gas tank and it too read 18.1 gallons. Has anyone else run into this? This is the first time it has done this (and hopefully the last), but still a bit disconcerning.

shipo · February 2002

Hmmm, well at least some of the information you were given is incorrect. Mercedes-Benz does in fact sell the exact same models in Canada as here in the States. When I worked for MBUSA, I wrote the Customer Assurance system which tracks all Customer Service calls, Roadside Assistance calls and any direct contact from a Mercedes driver to MBUSA. Needless to say, given the borders to our north and south, we took many calls from folks who purchased/lived in either Canada or Mexico who had driven into the US. While there were service differences on some of the Mexican cars, I am unaware of ANY differences between the Canadian cars and their US siblings.

I think you may have to dig further.

Best Regards,
Shipo

vs4 · February 2002

Thanks for looking into it. I talked to Mercedes Canada and Mercedes USA and they told me that the main difference is between the frame of the car when I asked can you elaborate on this then they told me that the bumbers of the car do not meet Canadian standards, in Canada they are suppose to be 5 mile and in the USA Mercedes E-class has 2.5 mile bumper. I asked them how come I cannot change that and they told me the dealers in Canada will not do that because this is a complicated stuff because they have to change things which take the impact of the bumper. It sounded like they are just BS'ing. Please let me know if you still have any contacts at MBUSA whoc can help me.

Thankyou very much.

Regards,
Victor

jks320 · February 2002

After looking for a SUV I just can't get myself to buy and drive one. So I have switched gears and am now searching for a 99-00 low mileage E320 4matic.

Several questions:

1. What are the standard services that should have been performed in the first $50K?
2. What does MB recommend for oil change intervals (5K ? $7.5K)? Given the car will probably be off lease I am sure the intervals would be no more frequent than the minimum required by the owners manual.
3. Can you give a basic idea of the cost of routine maintenance - just to prepare for the surprise down the road.

Thanks in advance.

shipo · February 2002

I'll ask around.

Best Regards,
Shipo

wniel · February 2002

What you have is a fuel sending unit corrosion problem. I have both a ML320 and a E430 that is 1.5 years old and have had the fuel sending units replaced in both of them. It is my understanding that the fuel additives that have been added especially in Calif. raise havoc with the contact points of the unit causing them to corrode. Take it to your dealer and they will install a new one that is modified to operate with the fuel that is sold over here.
Hope that this helps.
Wally

pat · February 2002

Hi all,

A reporter is trying to find consumers who've traded up from mass-market brands (e.g. Toyota, Chevy, Ford, etc.) to luxury nameplates. He says, "I'm not looking for lottery winners, just regular folks who wanted more car." If you have a story to share, please send it to me at jfallon@edmunds.com. It is helpful for you to include your e-mail, phone number and city/state of residence when you respond. Deadline for submission to this one is March 6. Thanks as always for your input!

Very best,

Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com

y2k4m · February 2002

Wally-
Thanks for the quick response, I thought that I was loosing it when this fuel problem occurred. I assume my E320 (2000 4-matic) fits the same criteria as yours and needs to make an appointment with the dealer. Glad to have such a wealth of knowledge at a moments notice.
Pat

w210 · February 2002

If I were in your shoes, I would directly contact MB Germany to clarify.

spfotey · February 2002

anybody know?

thx.

ctic · February 2002

One trivial thing where a US car wouldn't pass Canadian specs is the DRL.

That used to be a big issue in the US but I don't hear about it anymore.

mbdriver · February 2002

jks320 - First, I'd advise you to look for a 2000 or 2001 E320 4matic and forget about the 1999 model. MB did a significant face lift and made a number of changes starting with the 2000 models (which are almost identical to the 2002 models, except for the wheel design). Also, the MB warranty for the 2000 or 2001 is 50,000 miiles/48 months, so you'd have more warranty available, particularly on a low mileage car. If you're really fortunate, you might be able to find one with the optional but transferable additional MB warranty (additional 50,000 miles/ 48 months) that retails for about $2650.

You can check what standard services are performed during the first 50,000 miles on any specific car you're considering -- it will depend on the car's age and mileage. For example, I bought my 2000 E320 in late April of 2000, and until last month the computer kept saying "Service A in xxxx miles." Then, because I only had 9000+ miles on the car, it suddenly changed to "Service A in 30 days" and kept decreasing each day until the dealer performed the service several weeks ago.

Regarding oil changes, MB doesn't recommend a specific interval -- since they're paying during the warranty period! It's tied to the service schedule which is determined by the computer, based on driving style, conditions (dust, sand, etc.,) mileage or total time for limited use (like mine). I had my oil changed at 5,000 miles (at my cost) and switched to synthetic, which all MB dealers now use by factory direction.

Routine maintenance, therefore, is free during the basic warranty period (except for owner directed, i.e., early, oil changes). Bottom line -- you'll obviously pay more for a newer, low mileage E320, but in the long run it may be worth the trouble and extra cost.

Hope this helps.

rokinkead · February 2002

In response to message 2972, I do think that they are BS'ing. The 5MPH bumper impact Standard is in the US. It applies to cars, not trucks. One difference between the US and Canada is the daytime running lights. There might be other more stringent criteria in Canada, but a 5MPH bumper impact standard is not one of them.

valueguy · February 2002

I got my replacement rim from www.aaarims.com today. The cost was $300 including shipping charges. The dealer told me $468.00 over the phone but when I went in to purchase a new sport rim their price was actually $700.00! So, I bought a re conditioned wheel from the above mentioned site.

This wheel was advertised as A-plus condition.
Well, in my opinion, my other three wheels are in better condition after 2 years of driving than their A+ wheel. The bottom line is that their wheel is B+,A- at best. I am going to send my scraped wheel for reconditioning to them.
The total cost for the "almost" new rim and reconditioning of my old rim is $500.00

I get the new Michelin tires installed tomorrow.

habitat1 · February 2002

A friend of mine moved up to Canada for a two year stint setting up a new financial services partnership with Bank of Montreal. He took his BMW 540i with him, but was not about to pay the kind of taxes and fees you mentioned to get it registered in Canada. He kept the car registered with his US based company and, as far as I know, did not run into any legal difficulties. He's now back in the states and I've got a call into him to get the full story.

So much for NAFTA.

valueguy · February 2002

I got my new tires installed today along with the reconditioned rim. The tires are absolutely great and should have been OEM. The car is now quieter and handles better. Dry grip is improved and steering is surprisingly better as well.
Overall, I am very happy with these tires but the price was $1011 installed compared to $650-675 for the Yoko's.

After 2 years with my E430 I still like the way the car looks and drives. I hope the '03 E500 maintains this level of quality and consumer satisfaction.

livetodrive · February 2002

I also have an E430, with Pirelli P7000's. I am curious to know what tires originally came with your E-430, and how you rate them.

benzguy · February 2002

I've had 2 fuel sending units replaced on my '99 E320. The last one has been holding up well so far. Maybe it's the new "improved" version :-).

I just wanted to add that you shouldn't top-up or overfill the tank on your E. If you continue to do so, one of these times, the gas will come spurting out back at you under pretty high pressure. The tank must be plastic and under the right conditions (angle of the car or whatever) can expand when overfilled and then rebound (vomit) the fuel right back out. Pretty scary! Don't ask me how I know. I've seen this happen to another E-class owner, too (oops! did I just admit I once did something stupid). This can also cause the "Check Engine" light to come on.

Anyway, the dealer will be happen to replace your sending unit under warranty.

w210 · February 2002

If you happen to need the DRL module for importing your E430 into Canada, let me know. I have a spare one (I took mine off and replaced it with a US non-DRL module as I hate to be told when to turn on my lights).

valueguy · February 2002

My OEM tires were Continental Conti Sports.
These tires were adequate but a bit noisy. I wanted a replacement tire that lasted at least 20,000 miles and provided outstanding wet traction
along with a comfortable ride. My OEM tires lasted 14,500 miles.

Based upon my research from www.tirerack.com and some input from MB Driver on this site I decided the only two tires which met all my needs were the YOKO AVSdb and Michelin Pilot Sport AS.
The wear rating was the eliminating factor as most 17" sport tires simply do not last more than 15,000 miles. The Michelin has a wear rating of 400 and the Yoko has a 320.

I printed out the cost of 4 tires delivered to my home and made my local tire store match it. They charged me $100.00 more than tirerack's price for tax, installation and lifetime rotation with balance. I took the deal and had the Michelin tires installed yesterday.

shipo · February 2002

I think the Michelin Pilot Sport AS tires are as good a choice as can be made for a car with fairly wide/low profile 17" tires.

As a point of reference for you, I have Michelin MXV4 Plus tires on my current car, which have the same 400 tread wear rating as the Pilot Sport AS tires. With 36,000 miles on my car, my rear tires still have 3mm of tread depth and the fronts have 5mm (new is about 8mm). Assuming that I drive the tires until bald (I won't), I calculate that the rears are good to go for another 21,000 miles and the fronts for another 60,000 miles.

Given that BMW does not recommend tire rotation, it is not too surprising that one set has different wear than the other. I guess I like leaning on the go pedal more than the steering wheel, which is not too surprising given that most of my mileage has been in and around the NYC metro area.

Best Regards,
Shipo

w210 · February 2002

You can have my DRL lightswitch for US$50, it comes straight out of a Canadian 2001 E55. Don't buy the the switch at the dealership, they charge hundreds of dollars for it.

Email me at 73061.213@compuserve.com if you're interested in the future.

I have a feeling MB Canada are just trying to be difficult with the bumper issue, try to get to the bottom of things and I bet they'll finally admit that the bumpers are the same.

ctic · February 2002

OK, here are some crazy ideas.

1) In the US, cars are registered by the state, not the Federal government. If this is the same in Canada, maybe a smaller province may not be as hard nosed as a bigger one? e.g. maybe you can get your car accepted by the Inuit government first?

2) In the same vein, what are the requirement for Mexican registered cars? If Mexican specs are the same as Canadian ones, maybe a trip down to Mexico......?

microrepair · February 2002

dkatlanta mentioned that his local tire shop recommended that he stay away from the Yoko db tires because they start out quiet and end up noisy.. I can validate that as FACT ! I now have about 13000 miles on them on a 96 E320 and they are as noisy as any snow tire I've ever had on my cars. The first 4-5000 miles they were very quiet. They are so noisy now I wish I had never bought them. I will admit they are superb in rain and they also ride and handle well. But when cornering at slow speeds, 15-20 mph, they FEEL like snow tires too; notchy as hell.! I won't buy these tires again for sure..

The Goodyear Eagles that were on the car before were MUCH quieter and mostly adequate in all other functions. I'm going to have to start researching all over again. I thought I had bought the ultimate value tires..!! Hah !!

vs4 · February 2002

Actually the cars have to go through the Transport Canada and Customs Canada, I even checked with couple of car Importers and they even gave me the same answer. The only hope I have is that if I can convience the Mercedes Canada(when the Manager comes back from Germany on 20th) otherwise the only option I have is to sell the car.

Anybody interested, this car(2001 E430) has all the options available: Command System, Voice Activation, Heated Seats, Ventilated Seats, Multi Contour seats, Rain Sensing Wiper, XENON HeadLights, PHONE, 6 Disc CD Changer, 17 inch wheels, low profile tires, Tele-Aid Navigation CD's for Western Canada, Western United States CD's, Alarm, Power Sunroof, Power Rear Sunshade, Chrome HeadLamp Rings, Illuminated Door Sills, etc... It has only 5600 miles mostly Highway driven. Always parked in the garage when not driving. 1-owner. This is a FULLY LOADED car bought in June 2001. I will sell this for $52,800. If interested please email me at sharma_vivek@email.msn.com

Regards,
Victor

Edsoto · February 2002

Looking to buy a late model E320 - Basic Silver&Charcoal, E2, Heated Seats. I don't really want any other options (I'll buy and install my own CD player):

DEALER 1: I go to one dealer in Queens, NYC: 2002, with 6500 miles or so, CD player, phone option: $47,250.
Went back a week later: New Car with E2/Seats: 47,158. Of course, the floor model has a deposit on it. (2nd one since I've been there).

DEALER 2:
I take a trip another dealer in Manhattan: New car price (E2 and Seats): 48,750. I look in the paper and the same dealer has an early 2002 with 9900 miles or so, CD player, phone option: 47,800.

DEALER 3:
A dealer 100 miles away: A new 2001, with the E2, but not in Silver/Black: $46,000
Same dealer: the 2002 Special Editions: $47,750.

DEALER 4(?):
The price via United Buying Service: 2002 with E2/Heated seats: 47,125. (Not grey market).

DEALER 5:
A dealer in upstate NY: 2001 with 5134 miles with E2 package: $46,500. Great deal except that the car was sold over 3 weeks ago and they still haven't updated their web-site. Ugh....

While I know I'm kind of late to jump on the E320 band wagon, purchasing this car seems more difficult than it should be.

Regards,

Ed

rbrenton88 · February 2002

Are the Multi-Contour seats the same as the Ortho seats? I have ones that inflate in 4 different places, but I've never heard of "Ortho" seats before (as these were described by the dealer).

-RB

jrosasmc · February 2002

I've noticed that the doors of the new Mercedes don't "thunk" as solidly as the older ones.

microrepair · February 2002

My 96E320 refused to fire up this AM.. The starter turns the engine over, a little faster than normal. There is no hint of a cylinder trying to fire. Apparently the ignition system went south. For the last few days, I did notice a whirring noise when started from cold that lasted for about 10 seconds and dropped off in speed like a pulley that was spinning down. Any ideas before I have it towed to the nearest money hole?

bmms8 · February 2002

yay,i have the 3000th message

mbdriver · February 2002

microrepair -- You got my attention with your horror story about the loudness of your Yokos with 13,000 miles and the "snow tire" and bumpy ride. However, you didn't mention in your post whether the Yokos were the AVS dBs, how long you've had them, what size they are (if size matters), what type of driving you do (local or highway) and whether your driving habits are "pedal to the metal" or "Gentle Jim."

I have less than 5,000 miles on my Yoko 235/45ZR-17 AVS dBs. They are still very quiet, handle well, and the ride is superb. But now I'm concerned.

If your tires actually are AVS dBs, I recommend that you immediately contact the Yokohama honcho in your area, or even in the U.S. if necessary Supposedly, the AVS dBs were designed specifically to run quietly. If yours are as bad as you say, maybe you got a bad "lot." I'm fairly certain that Yokohama executives will be more than willing to listen and perhaps make some sort of adjustment. It seems to me that they just can't afford those kinds of bad reports.

I'm anxious to hear from you!

valueguy · February 2002

Check out all the other tires first then research the Michelin. Michelin like Mercedes-Benz is the premier brand which all others must compare themselves. Why not spend the extra money and buy the "best" tire available for your vehicle?
After all, you could save more money by purchasing a different sports sedan, right?
While I applaud M-B Driver's fiscal sense I could not bring myself to purchase the "lesser" tire (Japanese no less) for my German made Mercedes-Benz. Once the money is spent you will be glad you bought the Michelin Pilot Sport AS tires.

The Pilot's are great. My highway stability is improved (100MPH) and traction is fantastic. The tire is very quiet and smooth. Also, they look great on the car as well. I will buy them again especially if I get 25,000 or more miles out of them. Of course, the above statements are purely my opinion and not meant to offend anyone on this board.

mbdriver · February 2002

I have to agree that you did what you thought best when you "spent the extra money" and bought what you considered the best tires available for your German luxury sedan. I guess personal opinions and preferences is why some people drive Benzes and others drive BMWs or Audis, and why some people buy Michelins and others buy different brands.

My "fiscal sense" wasn't a factor when I bought the Yokos. I bought the tires that I thought best suited my car and my driving habits. Having spent well over $50,000 for an E320 with all the bells and whistles including COMAND, Xenons, heated seats, etc, I easily could have afforded Michelins or any other tire I wanted. To date, I couldn't be more pleased with the Yoko AVS dBs, and the reputation of that specific tire seems to be superb -- or should I say "Michelin-like." I just hope microrepair's experience and horror story about his own Yokos was either an abberation if it involved Yoko AVS dBs, or he bought other Yoko tires.

Keep us posted on your experience with the Michelins and I'll do the same with my Yokos. I hope neither of has any regrets.

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