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Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans
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Most "after-market" warranties do not come close.
Even a "starmark" certified car does not offer more than the extended factory warranty. The M-B warranty must be purchased by the original owner during the first 12 months of ownership. As for price, the warranty can be purchased at a discount from MSRP by using this site to find dealers that will work with you. I got 20% off MSRP on mine.
The warranty is good for 4 more years and 100,000 total miles.
Your'01 E430 at $46,000 is a good price. I could sell mine for $46,000 with the extended warranty but it is a '00 430 with 15,000 miles. What will you list yours for? I am guessing $50-51,000
I purchased my car at Invoice through Carorder.com
But, those crazy Internet days are over.
I appreciate your input on this site. Your auction prices remind us that cars are indeed a depreciating asset at best.
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com
jfallon@edmunds.com
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
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I have owned six or seven MB's over the last 35 years, the first of which was a 1963 220SE, the last my current 2000 E320. Certainly the 220SE exhibited a level of craft that the current car doesn't--the insides of the map pockets and the glove box were lined in leather, and every detail of the interior and mechanicals was overbuilt and beautifully finished.
The interim cars--a 116 chassis 280E, a 123 240D, 300D (normally aspirated) and 300D turbo, a 124 280E and 300E--have shown a progressive decline of concern with craft. But, in my opinion, the trend has been one of improvement over the years. (The exception is the 124 cars which, in my opinion, were produced at a point when MB had really lost direction. In terms of both engineering and construction quality, these were not cars of the caliber of the current E car.)
When people discuss the issue of "quality" there is a lot of confusion between authentic craft, perceived quality (especially in interior fittings), reliability, and durability.
While the 220SE showed obvious craft, the car had neither the reliability nor durability of the current E. By 1969 (six years), the interior showed considerable wear and UV damage (mostly to the lovely wood and leather, but also to some of the ivory-colored plastic switchgear), and had required considerable service and repair. The car was beautifully made in a craft sense, but by contemporary standards it was a maintenance hog. And it had but a tiny fraction of the complexity and features of the current E car.
So, while the current E's show much less craft than the older cars, I think they have proved themselves remarkably reliable and durable and they provide safety, comfort, and convenience that the earlier cars did not even dream of. If the current E car were designed and constructed in the style of the 220, it would be a 6,000 pound, $200,000 car and no one would want it. It would perform more poorly, would consume much more fuel, etc. etc.
As an engineer, I think these current MB cars are a remarkable technical achievement--and a huge improvement in quality and value over the dark days of the late 124 cars. Surely one can quibble with some of the aesthetic details of the interior fittings. But I think they are pretty well done; and there is absolutely nothing in these cars as tacky as the stock-Corolla black plastic turn signal/light lever of the Lexus 430 or the sliding plastic cubby lids of the BMW 5 cars.
Even though the Yoko dB was designed specifically to provide a quiet ride, someone recently posted a horror story about his own experience with the Yokos -- very noisy after 10,000 miles of wear. I'm hoping mine aren't a repeat, and so far they are great. But if mine start to act up, I'll bite the bullet and replace them with the Michelins. I guess that if you can afford to drive a late model Benz, you can afford the very best tires!
Generally, the 124's suffered from being MB's first effort at seriously cutting weight, and typically, they didn't know how to do it without significant penalties. MB is never good at new things. The cars also became very dated and over-priced (relative to competitive cars) towards the end of their model run, something not true of the current E. So, if I had to make a list of the things wrong with the two 124s I owner, it would include:
-The car was too narrow, uncomfortably so for even the front seat passengers. This was an effort to reduce drag and increase EPA numbers.
-Both cars were filled with little dash, console, door and trim rattles and noises.
-All the glass was too thin (and noisy), something done for weight.
-The structure was flexible enough that the sunroof would twist and bind in its opening on sudden grade transistions (when closed).
-A structure that would resonate with certain patterns of fine road undulations, producing an incredibly irritating hum in the cabin.
-The 2.8 had chronic, erratic engine heating problems that we were never able to correct.
-The mating of engine and transmission was very poor in terms of torque curve to shifting response. The 2.8 was particularly poor in this regard, the 3.2 (I had the 1993 204 engine) just barely acceptable. Both cars had very poor kickdown response, and the 2.8 had to usually be driven "manually" to stay out of the way of other traffic.
-The suspension damping was too soft, and did not even provide the ride quality of the current E (which I also think is too soft). On the 3.2, I replaced all the suspension components with the "sports" parts. The current E is corrected with just a shock change.
-An incredibly poor heating-ventilation system with a two-speed fan.
-Poor tracking and on-center steering feel (the recirculating ball design) with the standard suspension. (The sports suspension on the 3.2 corrected this.)
-Fuel milage about 70% that of the current E.
-Interior construction that made it almost impossible to remove panels without breakage. Over the years, a number of console, dash, and door surround parts had to be replaced for breakage.
By comparison, the current E has an extraordinary level of refinement, fit and finish, and integration. The engine and transmission are seamlessly integrated. The structure is extraordinarily rigid, and it is the first Mercedes I've owned (going back to the 220 SE) that has been completely free of small rattles and noises in the dash, console, and doors. And to date (two years and 12,000 miles), it has been virtually trouble-free.
When people judge "quality" they are usually looking at things like surface finish (matte or shiny for example), "feel" (the tactile sensation), thickness (the thicker the better), visual design (lack of visible edges, etc.), and parts count (the more the better). While these are certainly significant criteria, they exclude a number of important issues: metallurgy (durability over time and through heating cycles), chemistry (of non-metallic parts), structure or material vs. function, etc. MB usually excels in these issues. The Japanese have never been close to accomplishing this (especially on the metallurgy issues) and other German makes simply do not spend as much money where it can't be obviously seen. Compare the interiors or engine bays of ten year old MBs, Audis, and BMWs. The differences become obvious.
I'll a first time MB owner and planning to buy a 1998 E320. And I read about the car info under edmund's review and found out the review is negative about its transmission. Is it correct? And does this model of 1998 have other problems? Thanks for your reply.
Cham
M
Also, what is a ‘02 E-320 with E2, rear sun shade and COMND going for this late in the game?
Thanks
The 124 involved a lot of efforts to reduce weight, parts count, and cost, and MB did not really refine this effort until the current E. I think the trade-offs in pursuit of efficiency are much less noxious in the current car.
On the structural stiffness issue, one of the really nice benefits is much more consistent suspension geometry. On the 123 cars, one could literally feel the suspension geometry change through a corner as the structure settled into the turn. In the 124, this became more a need to adjust steering inputs, especially on rough surfaces. On the 210 there is a kind of consistency of handling that can only come from a very stiff structure and very consistent geometry. This is one of the reasons the 210 handles so well despite the soft spring and (especially) damping.
The overheating problem on the 124-2.8 was more about the electronic controls than mechanical issues.
I did think the suspension too softly damped and replaced the shocks with the Bilstein HD units. I also think that my car was delivered with inexcusably mediocre tires (the Michelin MXV4) and that all the cars should have the 17" wheels.
Beyond that, I haven't had much to complain about. The car certainly doesn't offer the craft of earlier cars (123 and earlier); but it comes in at about 3700 pounds which is practically a miracle given the complexity and number of systems. The body panels seem very thin, but these have become decorative and aerodynamic components with no structural function whatsoever. And one might gripe about trim details, like the tail lamp "covers" cut into the trunk liner. But I also don't want a 5,000 or 6,000 pound car.
An old friend of mine is the manager of a large MB parts department (a good statistical sample), and he knows what's going wrong with cars because he knows what parts he selling. I've always asked him what critical spares to carry in a new car. This has typically amounted to a collection of 15 to 25 relays, belts, hoses, valaves,etc. When I asked him this question about the 210, he said, "The only thing we ever really replace is the lousy cupholder in the front arm rest. Maybe you'd want to carry one of the HID head lamps, but we've never actually replaced one unless the car was wrecked."
I know that people on this board have been critical of quality and that one also reads this in the press. But I think MB buyers expect absolute perfection, and that buyers of cars like VW, Audi, or BMW don't. MB owners complain a lot more about small things. I have a lot of experience with these other cars too (and have owned several VWs and BMWs), and these cars simply do not have the depth of engineering of an MB. Look at the revision number on some of the parts (the last two digits after the hyphen)--there are ashtray parts, for heaven's sake, that are in 20-something revision. So, the 210 is certainly not absolute perfection, but I, for one, am completely astonished at the accomplishment that this car represents. I have never said that about an MB before, though I've loved many of them.
1. Do these cars need brake service at this approx. point?
2. I have a call into the serv. mgr. where I got the inspection to see what criteria they used to make that statement. Does anyone know the criteria?
3. Any estimate as to what this work would cost?
4. Any other thoughts on the matter?
The car has 22,000 miles the cost was about $260.
This was for the front brakes, cut the rotors and mercedes original parts.
I would think at 29,000 miles if the brakes were not serviced they will need it shortly.
Hope that helps.
Re: Yokohama AVS db tires. They are no longer on the E320. The local Yokohama dealer tooka test drive with me and agreed that there was something wrong with these tires with only 12K miles on them. He called Yokohama and they agreed to a pro-rata replacement of any other Yokohama tire. I first called Tire Rack, which is where I had bought thema nd fo course they wanted me to remove the tires and ship them back and they would pursue the same pro-rata rebate but I could then apply it to any other brand. Then I would have to pay for the shipping both ways and the re-mounting and balancing. It would have cost far more than getting a new set of a different model from the local dealer. So I ended up with their AVID V4 tires. Initial impression is that these are a better match for the E320 than the AVS db tires. They are one grade less on the speed rating and are smoother and quieter than the AVS db tires were when new. And they don't appear to be trying to climb the sides of the truck ruts on the highways like the AVS db's were doing constantly. I think the AVS db's were too far on the performance side for the standard suspension of my E320.
But the dealer commented that the AVS db's were off balance by 1/2 ounce and that I really need to rotate the tires and have the front end aligned because of th wear pattern they saw on the tires. I had an alignment and rotated the tires at the 6K mile mark. And there was absolutely no vibration (shimmy) at any speed, legal or illegal. He claims that the superior suspension of the Benz masks small amounts of imbalance. My experience has been that the suspension is so sensitive that a 1/2 ounce unbalance is magnified to where it is really noticeable. (Anyone care to comment on which way this works?) All of which leads me to believe that this is not an appropriate tire for this car; although it is possible that the Sport models could probably run well with this tire.
Based on the tread depth after 12K miles, I would have gotten about 33-35K miles on these tires, which is less than the 40K I got from the previous Goodyear Eagles LS tires. Of course the Eagles did cost more than the AVS db..
For now I'm happy with the Avid V4 and just hope they stay quiet...!
M
Warning...long append.
I purchased 4 snows for my 2001 E320 4Matic. THEY recommended Blizzak MZ-01. I receive them and get them mounted at the local tire shop (that has the state of the art Hunter road force balancing system). Car rides like CRAP (sorry). I return it and they say they had trouble with the balance on one of them (why they didn't say that in the first place is another matter). Re-balance all and 1 of the tires fails the Road Force test horribly (39 pounds, anything over 25 is ususally an immediate reject). Two others are in the low 20's. On is a 10. FYI - Road Force is a measure of Roundness. Basically, only one of these is close to round.
Contact Tire Rack. After a few go-rounds they agree to replace it on the word of the shop, even covering shipping. Problem is they apparently sold me the last 4. Now I wait 3 weeks for my replacement.
Get the replacement. Mount it. It scores 25 on the road force! The sent me ANOTHER out of round tire. At this point I'm pretty P.O.'d. Now I have 3 marginal tires and it still rides like crap (sorry). I decide to suck it up since the 3 months out of the year I can put up with this the roads are pretty lousy here (of course, it's been beautiful this year so I REALLY feel the crappy ride). In retrospect, I should have remounted my all seasons, eaten the 180 bucks (80*2 + 20) and told tire rack to shove them.
Why I won't use Tire Rack again. They sold me tires they couldn't (immediately) replace. They sold me marginal quality tires. I had to bear the cost of their shoddy merchandise. I will pay the local guy from here on out.
As to your question regarding the E's ride characteristics. I find that the car rides so wonderfully that ANY issues with the tires, balance, alignment will be immediately noticeable. It doesn't hide anything. The car is a perfectly tuned machine and lets you know exactly what the situation is.
Enjoy,
BigRob.
I definitely do agree with Walto's evaluation of the 124 vs. 210.
Thanks
Ladies and gentlemen, I do not know if Mercedes considers its Tele-Aid program a success, or if they receive positive feedback from their customers. My guess is that it's a loss-leader for them, and that most people now realize they don't need a $350 blinking red button on their headliner. It serves no other purpose. Thank Heavens I had Auto Club!
So far, after a weekend trip to the mountains, I'm delighted with the Potenzas. They're far superior to the original equipment Michelins and the XGT V4's I'd tried later. It's easy to feel through the wheel how stiff the sidewalls are. Particularly combined with the upgrade to Koni shocks I made several months ago, the tires make the car track and turn very nicely, with immediate response to steering input and good straight ahead stablity. The tires aren't silent, but are noticeably quieter than the Michelins.
Two caveats, according to the Tirerack postings. First, these tires aren't designed for driving in snow. Second, they probably won't last very long.
I then went to Discount tire locally and they ordered LM02s - these are far superior and ride better than the MZ01s - if you have a choice go with them over the MZ - they provide good traction in the snow and are relatively quiet. They also come in 225 and 235/45 17 size.
Luckily I did not have to buy new snows because these tires fit the E430 as well....
Thanks a bunch
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If you are interested in participating, please provide your city/state of residence and your daytime phone number to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than March 20, 2002.
Thanks as always,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Share your vehicle reviews
New plugs made a big difference. As soon as I touched the key the engine was running. No more cranking 2-3 revolutions before firing.
No way should you wait for the magical 100K miles for a tuneup.. Plugs don't last that long, no matter what the mfg. says. At the very least, re-gap the plugs at 50-60K miles.. I'll change the plugs every 50K miles form now on, assuming I keep it that long..
The access space looks pretty tight to me.
I really like my Michelin Pilot Sport All Season tires and would buy them again without hesitation.
These tires have great marks from tirerack.com and are as quiet as they come. Plus, the grip in dry and wet weather is outstanding. Which ever brand you decide on make certain to check the wear rating to gauge the life expectancy of the tire.
Consumer Reports rated the 2002 BMW 530 its most outstanding vehicle. The E320 received good marks; but, the CLK got the lowest marks of any luxury coupe. Similarly, the S class fared poorly.
Perhaps, BMW is now the leader in German luxury cars. If the new 5 series is as roomy as my '00E430 I may buy a BMW 540/M5 instead of the new E Class. The ball is in Mercedes' hands now;
Mercedes must rise up and retake the quality (perceived as well as real) lead from Lexus and BMW.
http://mbspy.bacosys.be/comand.htm
M
Thanks
The S Class did not do particularly well either.
I realize M-B owners are picky but BMW 7 series and LS 430 owners are also a demanding bunch.
Since M-B charges the most money the quality needs to be the best. Perhaps, Lexus is correct in claiming the LS 430 is the finest luxury sedan in the world (as long as that sedan is in traffic or parked).
Meanwhile, the new 7 series BMW is stacked up, dealers are holding on to 3/4 months supply ..and they are scratching their heads wondering about all this great print..
Their question is .. "where's the buyers" ..?
Terry.
A new E-Class.
A facelifted S-Class.
New C240 and C320 Coupes.
A new CLK.
4Matic available on the C240, C320 Sedans and Coupes, S430 and S500.
A SL55 AMG and a SL600 with more power than the current S600 V12's 367 hp.
A CL-Class facelift.
New S55 and CL55 models with the same 469hp as the SL55.
Mercedes used to introduce a new car every couple of years, now they're doing a new model EVERY year. I have never seen this many new Benzes in one year (for 2003).
Oh and I forgot the Maybach. Does anyone know of a dealer that has signed up to sell these?
M
I am not sure when the E55 will arrive. My guess is Nov/Dec of '02. The new CLK55 is going to get a 376HP v-8 engine and is expected late '02 as an '03 model. I am hoping the E55 gets the 476HP engine and not the 376HP version. M-B is waiting to see if BMW puts the rumored 500 HP engine in the '03/'04 M5. If BMW decides to use that engine M-B will probably use the SL55 engine in the new E55.
The standard CLK coupe should be for sale 08/02. The new convertible should be ready Feb. 2003.
The new '03 540 is expected to have 326-333HP so M-B upgraded the standard E V-8 to the 5 liter 302HP engine.
I am interested to get the windows tinted on my E430. Could some one tell me a shop(s) who does window tinting, who they have used in the past and liked them or have heard good things about a specifc shop. I will prefer shops close to Bellevue, WA or Seattle, WA area.
The colour of my Mercedes is Brilliant Silver so advice me on the tint shade and quality of the Film.
Thanks in advance.
I hope that this helps.
Wally
1. I just noticed a small chip (1/8") on the hood-- What to do? Get a touch-up stick and do it myself? Might it have been due to a manufactory's defect, hence covered by the warranty?
2. The body close to the headlight has 2 very small mall dents, probably someone bumped me in a parking lot? Any idea as to how much that sort of repair would run?
3. I am thinking of having the MB phone installed, which I presume comes as part of a package that includes a CD player. Can the phone be used as a portable cellular as well? Any experience as far as costs; can one dicker with the dealer?
4. When I down-grade the manual gear, from D down to 2nd, I often experience a surge, which makes the car move faster.. even if I first press "decelerate" while in the cruise-control mode. Is this a defect in my particular car or is it a general thing?
Any and all help with the above will be most appreciated.
Thanks.
Leo
I recall a similar post from another owner - I took a quick look at the archive posts, but it's dark and dusty down there and I didn't see it.
Does somebody out there share this problem?