Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

dustoff156 · September 2002

After 26 months of perfect service, I have my first gremlin in my 2000 E-430. A couple of days ago, I noticed the CD player didn't seem to be playing songs in the sequence they are recorded, so I clicked open the window to watch their
progress.

Selection 10 might be playing and then it would go to selection 3 instead of to 11, so I tried pushing the increase and decrease buttons on the steering wheel and on the radio face and the selections seemed to jump all over the place.

Anyone else experienced this phenomena and know what to do or must I call on the MB garage?

Thanks for your input.

rowlandj · September 2002

Sounds like you have the player set in random play mode.

JR

magnetophone · September 2002

hahaha

rlsmith11 · September 2002

Just viewed a new 2003 E320. I noticed on the roof next to the rain channels on each side there were two covered points that appeared to be for some sort of accessory....such as a ski rack or something. It was after business hours and I could not ask about it. Any info???

maui19 · September 2002

I was facing the same choice: 2003 E320 or 2002. I went with the 2002 for a number of reasons. First, I'm not all that wild about the looks of the 03. The front end reminds me of the Taurus. Of course, this is entirely subjective. Second, the 03 will be less reliable than the 02. There is no question about that. Third, there are quite a few 02's around, so you can really get a deal. Lastly, I liked the idea of the 4matic (I live in the snow belt), and that option isn't available on the 03.

There is no right or wrong choice about 02 vs 03. But there are good reasons either way.

rayscar · September 2002

I don't think you can say the 2003 will be less reliable than the 2002. Some of the changes in the E come from other MB cars like the SL and are already proven technologies. In addition, MB has a lot riding on this launch. While I agree that historically you may have the odds on your side, I don't think it is a take it to the bank absolute that the 2003 E will be problem prone. ANY car you buy can have problems. If you read these message Boards long enough you will find that people have big problems with the 2002 too.

walto · September 2002

Having owned five or six MB's over the past 25 years, I was interested in the W211 and a few days ago had the chance to look carefully at and drive both the 320 and 500. So here are some impressions:

1. Although almost identical to the 210, the new cars look smaller both on the outside and the inside.

2. There has been a lot of talk in the press about MB's return to "high quality" interior materials with the 211. I can't say I agree at all. From an engineer's viewpoint there are a number of areas where the materials and construction look much cheaper. The interior, however, is "fancied" up with a lot of chrome trim and an effort to increase the impression of parts count. This may be some people's idea of higher quality, but not mine.

3. To me the car hardly looks like a Mercedes. It borrows much from the new Ford-Jaguars, and it has way too many character lines in the body work. It lacks the integrity of a good basic shape and tries to make up for that with over-design of little details. There is some particularly messy sculpting around the upper edge of the trunk and rear fenders. Like the interior, the exterior looks like the stylists were working overtime on stimulants.

4. The sensotronic brakes are wonderful: the modulation, pedal feel, etc. is perfect. The complexity of the system is very high, but I can't see why it could not be reliable.

5. The semi-active suspension is terrific. The manual switching is on the console behind the shift lever, and the different modes provide, instantly, what feels like three different cars. The standard level (no lights on) is an adpative mode biased for comfort, but the car will tighten up during maneuvering. The one-light position is also adaptive, but the car tightens up with less provocation. The two-light position is a non-adaptive, full firm (springing and damping) mode that provides a very tight, but somewhat uncomfortable car (by my ride standards at least).

6. I thought the "cheap" leather interior of the 320 looked as good as the full leather of the 500, and the vinyl will probably be more durable. I wouldn't spend the extra money if I were buying the 320.

7. The 320 has an 18.5 gallon tank, the 500 a 21 gallon. Both cars benefit in trunk depth for having the tank under the rear seat (below the floor pan).

8. The 320 with mechanical suspension feels very much like my 320 (W210) with the Bilstein HD shocks and 235-45-17 Firestone SZ's. The 211 feels a bit crisper, but the difference is very slight. The steering in the 211 is slightly faster (2.8 L to L), which I think is a mistake.

9. Anyone ordering these cars should really think about the distronic cruise control. I've driven this in a CL500 on two road trips and I'd say it cuts the workload in half.

10. The standard climate control in the 320 lacks the pollution-sensing, solar sensor, and charcoal filter of the 210. You have to order the "four zone" system for those features. The four zone system (with temp controls in the rear and vents both at the back of the console and in the B pillars) seems a bit of overkill to me.

11. The front dome light/microphone/sunroof switch is a beautiful piece of design work and a huge aesthetic improvement over the 210.

12. These cars will be considerably cheaper to repair after low speed accidents. They use full front and rear end plastic "caps" that protect the metal work at the expense of adding some awkward joint lines to the body.

13. The standard double spoke wheels look like those VW used on the Cabriolet for many years. Like much of the body and interior, they're busy.

14. I have the feeling that this car is aimed at a younger market that isn't interested in minimalist approaches to design and that equates complexity with cost and quality. I wish I liked the aesthetics of the car better, because I personally would buy it just for the Distronic (and the Parktronic, because my 55 year old next is stiff!). I'm going to wait until they put the 3.5 liter six in it and give it another look. The way engine development is going, the current 5 liter V-8 is going to look awfully under powered and thirsty in a few years.

r1_97 · September 2002

I'd like to hear comments from those who have bought the new '03 E models.

lex10 · September 2002

Just ordered an E320 but was considering the E500,
but a number of factors swayed me towards the 320.
1-live in major city and would be considerably higher gas costs.

2-the 320 has an excellent engine with 221 hp would I really use the extra 81hp.

3-cost factor approximately 6500 w/gas guzzler tax
for the E500 over the E320.

Comments from any current owners is appreciated.

mbnut1 · September 2002

First of all thanks for the review. What I would like to hear more about is the ride handling comparisons of the '03 with the 210 both before and after your shock / tire mods.

Where I am coming from is Automobiles review of the 2003 where they talked about the 2002 model handling like a drunken sailor during high speed lane changes whereas they really liked the 03. I have also read several postings complaining about the ride quality of the '03.

Do you think that the base '03 suspension (non active) strikes a good compromise between handling and ride? Based on your post it sounds like that the same could be achieved with the '02 model with your shock and tire setup.

Does the semi active add significantly to achieving a perfect ride / handling balance?

Also I would like to hear more about your comment about the tighter steering. Edmunds only critisism of the '97 E420 sport was it's "darty" steering. It sounds like the '03 is even more so.

Utimately the reason I am asking is if a good balance between handling and ride can be achieved on the 210 then I would be inclined toward that direction because like you I am somewhat underwhelmed by the 'O3 apperance in the flesh, though I thought it was a stunner in the pictures. But I went through the same experience with the new C. I really like the 210's body because I think that it harken's back to classic late 50's Benz styling which is my favorite era.

jean7of9 · September 2002

I find your posting is the best comprehensive comparison so far between W210 vs W211. I like your analysis for the ergonomics vs the driver.
Jean

wilflsts · September 2002

I took delivery of my wife's E320 with the sport pkg. Options are E2,E3,Heated seats,rear window shade and rear door shades. E3 is a sport pkg. which requires the E500 suspension. I have driven the car for about 60 miles. I just love the car and so does my wife. I am just getting used to the braking system which felt strange, but due to fact that I drive a SUV. I would sure love that stopping power on my truck. I paid List which I think is fair. List was $55030.00 with Metallic paint. Also this car has the premium leather which wasn't invoiced. Maybe because of a July production date. Good for me. I will post further messages as time goes by.

billsdoors · September 2002

Thanks everybody for your input because I have to make this decision this weekend. I went by my dealership today and there was a 2002 E320 in desert silver sitting right next to a 2003 E320 in desert silver. I spent about an hour staring at the two from every angle imaginable. I've decided I like the more classic look of the 2002 and my dealership was able to get me one with the options I wanted. Still waiting on the final price.

walto · September 2002

Yes, I was surprised at how much better the car looked in pictures to me--very surprised.

I thought the base 211 (mechanical suspension) was very, very similar to my 210 with the HD Bilsteins and lower profile tires. I prefer the slightly slower steering of the 210 (3.0 vs. 2.8 L to L), and the high speed handling and tracking is virtually the same. I find the magazines like Automobile to be very deficient in real knowledge of cars and the "drunken sailor" bit is really a bit much. I think Mercedes was pursuing Lexus in the damping figures for the 210 and that the car was too soft. Additionally, MB had just finished paying out $100,000,000 (yes, that's one hundred million) in the class action suit on "premature" tire wear, mostly in the W140. So the rear toe-in settings on the 210 weren't quite adequate, because toe-in produces tire wear. The tires supplied on the car (Michelin MXV-4's) were also a high-mileage, poor-performing tire. So this combination of soft damping, inadequate rear toe-in, and "soft" tires could produce some darty high speed behavior in certain cars. If anyone is experiencing it, I would do an alignment and specify rear toe-in near the maximum allowed by MB specs. That, with the addition of some stiffer shocks and better tires creates a rock-solid car that is certainly comparable to the 211 base suspension.

I think the "semi-active" suspension of the 211 introduces a whole new game. The difficulty with a passive suspension is that wheel control (largely during suspension compression) and body control (during suspension rebound) create some conflicting demands. The 211 suspension eliminates a lot of this by adjusting damping rates instantaneously during compression and rebound; and it also adjust spring rates to improve body control (both roll and pitch) during fast maneuvering. The car is also automatically lowered (I'd guess by something like 15 mm) at 75 mph or when the mid or firm settings are manually selected. So this is a combination that the 210 cannot compete with, particularly in back-to-back comparisons. Whether this accomplishment is worth the complexity is hard to say--I'm very sensitive to these issues and find the ride/handling compromise of my 210 pretty good, but not in the league of the 211. I don't think I've ever had anyone in my car who would notice the difference.

On the ride quality of the base-suspension 211, I'd say it's similar to my 210. But a brand new car is going to be stiffer until the springs loosen up and the shocks overcome piston friction, etc. This is probably a 10,000 mile deal in a Mercedes.

On the steering, I think they're both O.K. and on the fast side, but I'd opt for the 210. If MB was chasing Lexus with the damping rates on the 210, they're chasing BMW with the steering ratio on the 211. I liked Mercedes when they were just following their own line of reasoning. Unlike the car magazine guys, I don't drive six different cars a day, and I don't compare cars back to back. MB has a long history of making cars that are incredibly satisfying over the long haul. I don't think "chasing markets" is the way to accomplish that.

So, let me summarize my impression. If I were going to replace my 210 with a 211, it would be for only one reason: the Distronic cruise control, which adds a whole new level of ease and safety during long-distance driving. Nothing else about the 211 was compelling enough for me to make the change. If I did make the change, I'd also shell out for the electronic suspension (because it is certainly a $1500 improvement) and (for my old neck) the Parktronic.

lex10 · September 2002

Does anyone know if the 2003 E320 has a duel exhaust and if it does what are the gains in horsepower over the 2002 E320?

rayscar · September 2002

I don't know about the exhaust on the 320 but the 500 has dual but are not chrome tipped. As to the hp, the 2002 and 2003 share the same engine so there is no difference in hp. Only the 500 got more ponies over the old 430

microrepair · September 2002

I find it hard to believe anyone could say that the 210 handles at high speed like a "Drunken Sailor". Maybe if the shocks were worn out and the tires were low-rated and worn out, but not if tires and shocks are in good shape. Unless MB softened them up from '96 to '02. My 96's high speed competency has saved my butt more than once. There are few cars as rock solid as the 210.. Sounds like the 211 with electronic suspension is one that will outshine the 210...

lex10 · September 2002

Any input appreciated on purchasing the E500 over the E320, will also take input from current owners of the E430 vs E320.Does the extra horsepower make a difference or does it make more sense to purchase the sport package in the E320 and have better handling.I know the E500 already comes with the active suspension but the sport package in the E320 adds the active suspension, better rubber, rims, and nice looking ground effects, as well as a number of other goodies.Is the gas mileage significantly worse in E500 or E430 when compared to the E320?

Thanks to all for the input.

merc1 · September 2002

I kept your review of the E-Class in mind today as I poked around on my local Benz dealer's lot (closed on Sun). The only thing I disagree on it the looks, to me it looks like a Benz should, just sleeker. The one thing you stated that stood out the moment I look at the inteiror was that chrome strip on wood running across the dashboard. Clearly Mercedes tried to "dress-up" the interior, but like you stated it's so out of character and to me it's downright tacky. Other than that I think the new E is great. The only E they had outside was a E320, Black Opal/Charcoal, at about 55K.

Now if you want to talk disappointment, then lets talk about the 2003 CLK320, I can't believe Mercedes would come out with a 2-door (usually some of their best styling work) that is so forgettable and Japanese looking. I hope the CLK500 with the bigger wheels and bodykit is better looking, haven't seen one yet.

M

mbnut1 · September 2002

You're the man! As a guy who makes his living performing dynamic system analysis and design, I greatly appreciated your explanation as to the root cause of the 210 handling deficiency and the benefits of the active suspension.

wniel · September 2002

I have a 2000 E430 that is a terrific car to drive. It drives basically the same as a 320 other than the additional power which is a blast, and also performance is better due to the low profile tires on the 17" wheels. One correction that I would like to make on the previous post is that the suspension is the same on the E320 and the E430 and that goes for the sport also. The only difference on the E430 is that it has the bigger engine and 17" wheels instead of 16". That is true with the sport also. The sport also has the different treatment on the panels under the doors (rocker panels) and on the back bumper, as they are more aggressive looking and also the fog lights are the bullet type on the sport. Now I'm talking about the 210 and not the new 211 as I haven't any experience with the 211.

Kirstie_H · September 2002

I'm looking for physicians (M.D.s or DOs) who are willing to discuss their car collections with a trade magazine. If you fit the bill, please respond with your daytime contact information to jfallon@edmunds.com by Sept. 16, 2002.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com

eyemd2 · September 2002

Any idea on 'GOOD' price on new E 320? Edmunds still does not have TMV on 2003 model.

rayscar · September 2002

I doubt you will get either a 2003 E320 or 500 for less than MSRP yet. Maybe late this year or early next you might get a little better deal.

BTW, when is Edmunds going to post the 2003 TMV on the new E??????

eyemd2 · September 2002

Any idea on true market value of new E 320? No site has information on invoice etc.

rayscar · September 2002

Still no TMV for the 320 or E500 from edmunds. From another site I've learned that the dealer cost on options is about 7.5% less than MSRP. So it is probably a good bet that the invoice on both cars is in that range too. Wish edmunds would update this info. They have it for other 2003 MB cars why not the E??????

rbrenton88 · September 2002

Can someone explain to me what this is? I know it's related to cruise control, but what does it do?

wishnhigh1 · September 2002

Its cruise control for the infinitely lazy people. Basically it slows you down if you come in close proximity of the car behind you, so you dont run into them.

But when I use cruise control, I usually switch lanes instead of speed up or slow down for cars. I would rather stay at a constant speed.

Some may like it, some might not, luckily it is an option.

rcf8000 · September 2002

You mean the car in front of you. Distronic is absurdly expensive--a lot of the price must reflect a legal liability allowance!

lex10 · September 2002

After much consideration on whether to purchase an E320 or an E500, I decided on an E320 sport(E3), E2 and E5 packages in obsidian black with charcoal interior. It is a sharp looking car and is brilliantly engineered. I love what they did with both the exterior and interior of the vehicle. I think it is an improvement over last year's model. I currently own a Bmw 528 and believe the active suspension with the sport package will give me similar handling. I am satisfied with performance provided by the E320 as well as the better gas mileage compared to the E500. I checked into whether the E320 comes with dual exhaust and I believe both the 320 and 500 have it. Doesn't seem like any dealers are willing to go below msrp because this vehicle is so hot. Vehicle should be delivered sometime in November. Thanks to all for your input.

wishnhigh1 · September 2002

yeah, car in front of you! thanks

wishnhigh1 · September 2002

Hey Lex10, before you do anything like make an order or deposit, check out the price difference between the similarly equipped E500 and E320.

The sports package on the E320 is MUCH more expensive, negating the price difference by a a good sum of money. You might just consider the E500 a better deal.

wishnhigh1 · September 2002

is the nav system still cd based?

mall610 · September 2002

The navigation system will be a dvd based system according to the very few words published so far.
Still have not been able to get any information on the system. Not even the supplier. I have asked seriously at several dealers and they have not been able to get anything.
Why the secret? Anybody know?
They are asking me to order now with the special price incentive and I probably would order an E500 but want to know what the system is.
Can't believe that they will be in production in January and still not have the system completely locked in.
Anyone have a dealer that has a source of information.

Hate to keep bringing this up but this is the best source of information that I know of!!!
I find the Dealers have a lot less knowledge of the product then the people on this board.
I would like to get an order in but the system is important to me in my business.

rayscar · September 2002

There is a little info on the DVD Nav system. Got the MB's UK site. You'll find a couple of paragraphs. I purchased it with my E500 order at the discount price. The car will be here in October. The Nav system will not be available until 1st quarter 2003.

rayscar · September 2002

To save you the trouble here is what the UK site says:

The COMAND APS system has been given a complete overhaul, so you should find the optimised functions and features even easier to use. Comprised of two separate components, the operating system (COMAND) and a navigation module (APS) located in the boot-the new system can store map data for many different European countries on just a single DVD.
A telephone keypad and softkey function buttons operate the 2-tuner diversity radio, CD/DVD drive and generous 6.5" TFT colour display. You can also have a TV tuner installed as an optional extra. Enjoy a fine quality picture that fades out when the car exceeds 5mph, even though the sound continues.

walto · September 2002

Although there are a few posts with rather negative opinions of the Distronic, I think it is quite remarkable and wouldn't think of buying a 211 without it. Having driven Distronic for many hours (in a CL 500), I think it is the best thing since sliced bread for long distance driving. It does not simply slow you down if you come close to a car in front of you, it allows the cruise control function to operate usefully in traffic: it will maintain your set speed to the extent traffic allows it, but slow the car and maintain a fixed distance from traffic in front of you if need be. It will also brake automatically if traffic suddenly slows, something that occurs too often in California. If you switch lanes or someone switches in front of you, the cruise control automatically adjusts to the "open space" in front of you. The result is that you can drive from Los Angeles to San Francisco and (with the exception of stops) touch the brake or accelerator four or five times instead of literally hundreds of times. The reduction in fatigue and increase in safety is equivalent to the two-axis autopilot (heading and altitude) in an airplane. Pilots who use autopilots are not lazy, they're sensible.

As for why the unit costs $3,000, this doesn't seem out of line to me for a triple redundant doppler radar unit (three transmitters and three receivers, which is what it took to get it by the NHTSA) that also has the electro-mechanical capability to apply brake pressure. I think the cost will eventually come down and in ten years I'd be amazed if this capability is not as common as cruise control itself is today.

lex10 · September 2002

Checking into the price difference between a similar equipped E320 and E500 both with the sport package yields an apx $6,500 price difference including taxes. I think it makes more sense to go with the E320, especially in an urban environment (gas expenses, less freeways). Plus the E320 in my opinion has a more than adequate engine (221 hp). I know the E500 has a wonderful engine and is very quick, but for me the E320 is more practical, as well as affordable.

cduong · September 2002

Is there a scheduled maintenance for water pump of this vehicle? Your info is greatly appreciated. I still have a '87 Toyota Camry which I replaced a water pump after 120,000 miles (My trust worthy local mechanic told me that I did not have to replace it at 60,000 miles when he replaced my timing belt)...

jbors · September 2002

I have a 97 E-420 and the high brake light above the trunk in the lower rear window has become coated with a powdery white residue that is unsightly. Has any of you owners encountered this condition and learned of a way to remove the light fixture without breaking it in order to clean it? It appears that it pops out vertically from the base off of some plastic clips but it is wedged in the severe angle between the rear window and the base.

Thanks for any advice.

rbrenton88 · September 2002

I agree with Walto that this will migrate to many other cars as lower price points are realized.

One could conceivably adapt it to work with the GPS Nav to drive on full auto pilot from origin to destination. Wouldn't that be neat? And no need for sensors embedded in the pavement.

mbdriver · September 2002

walto certainly is is impressed by Distronic, and for his situation and driving requirements it's obviously an investment he's willing to make.

However, I would not consider spending $3,000 for the added convenience of that feature of a cruise control system. First, and most important, my driving is far different from walto's; I spend more time in town and on two-lane roads, with only an occasional trip on an Interstate or freeway. And if I have to travel more than 150 miles or so to my destination, I almost always fly.

Second, if I understand the Distronic system, the distance to be maintained behind another vehicle is specific and must be pre-set, and it stays at that distance unless changed manually. Seems to me Mercedes should have taken the technology one step farther so the car's following distance would be adjusted automatically, depending on speed and possibly other factors involving safety.

Perhaps I'm asking too much, though. But until the Distronic price comes waaaay down in price, I'll just tap the cruise control to "off" and "resume" or use it to slow or accelerate, if I opt to use it at all in traffic on a freeway. BTW, I'm an ex-Air Force jet fighter pilot with 6500 hours of flying time, and walto is absolutely right -- autopilot was a blessing, even in loose formation flying on long flights!

jstyle · September 2002

I like the look of the new 2003 E. I have an E 500 on order and spent some time driving a E320 at my local dealer. It is a harsher ride than the 2002 because of the design change in the suspension. I think if you want a plush ride look elsewhere or go with the S-class which is design for super quiet plush riding. I agree with those that say it looks smaller. Like the S-class when it was redesigned, making the car sleeker makes it visually smaller. I think visually the E-class and C-class look the same on the road except for a close look if you know the difference. Also I agree with Merc1 about the CLK. I saw one on the road about a month ago back east and now took a close look at my MB dealer and inside and out this car screams Volvo/Accord Coupe/Mid '97 Acura CL. I don't think it looks that good at all. Also I think the corporate heads, Daimler-Chrysler, are destroying the MB brand by having too many models from the 20K C class coupe to the 120K S600. Look, either produced now or coming to the US are C,CLK,CLE,E,S,CL,M,V,A,SLK,SL,SLR and I'll throw in the Maybach. No wonder quality is dropping, they are spreading things too thinly. I heard they already produced 100,000 2003 E_class models. Some sort of record production.

r1_97 · September 2002

Was your E-320 test ride in the optional e500 type suspension or the regular e320 suspension?

Another possible reason for the harsh ride may have been that MB over inflates tires when cars are shipped to dealer who is supposed to adjust the tire pressure as part of dealer prep. Just a guess.

paulchiu · September 2002

jstyle,

Yes, S500 does have a very plush ride. But after 2 years with my 2001, there is just too much interior noise from loose plastic panels which distracts from the overall experience. The noise started after 6 months and has just gotten worse.

I had been considering a 2004 E55 or something, but after hearing your experience with an early 320 and a recent drive of the same vehicle, I am beginning to rethink my plans.

At the 60-70K area, one could really look into a BMW M540 or M5, which is much better made from the inside/out, possibly a Lexus Gs430 or Ls430, very different animals, but extremely nice rides, to the new Audis (harsh also..). Never tried the Infiniti Q45, so don't know there.

lex10 · September 2002

Can anyone with past experience with the E320 sport or E430 sport comment on their driving experiences with their vehicles in the rain or snow. Are these vehicles with performance rated rubber good in inclement weather or do the tires need to be changed to snow treds?
Also does anyone know if Mercedes charges extra for metallic paints on the 2003 E320, I know it is complimentary in the E500.

jgravel · September 2002

I've decided to wait for the 4matic to be available in the US. My sales professional is checking but I'd like to cross reference his information with what others are hearing. I believe someone on this bd said Jan-Feb 03 was the likely timeframe. Can anyone confirm/ deny this?

Thanks

r1_97 · September 2002

Edmonds just posted msrp for the new E $1,150 extra for metalic paint on the E-320.

merckx · September 2002

as it had been a $660 option,i find this new price a little hard to believe...

px260 · September 2002

After 2 yrs and 22k miles on my '01 E320, the car still feels rock solid, no squeaks or rattles inside and out. The only quality issue I have is on one of the rocker panel black rubber strips, it tends to lift up and shows a little gap from the body panel. I suspect it's the work of the hand wash car washers. The stock 16" Eagle LS wears well and looks new. Keeping the tire pressure at 34 psi really makes a difference in handling.

Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

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