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#672 of 768 Ode to the S4... by ilxman Nov 06, 2001 (12:00 pm)
I'm a 2001 Nogaro/Alcantara 6spd S4 owner, with about 8500 miles. I woke up early last Saturday (i.e., least amount of traffic) and decided it was time to take her out and seriously let 'er rip. I got on the expressway and gently warmed her up as I got past city and suburban traffic. Then I turned off the stereo and really started workin' her out. My love for this car has only deepened with the experience.
First, to cruise at 105mph in 5th gear (at only 4500 rpm!) with only the softly sweet, musical hum of that magnificent engine is remarkable. In fact, as I redlined from 1st gear on up after a toll booth, the engine and turbos simply purred--no screams, no protests, no hint that there were turbos at work...just delicious propulsive thrust. That thrust went right on up to 130mph, a speed I hit a few times before clumps of traffic appeared ahead and I had to slow down. Doggoneit--I wanted to test that electronically limited 143mph top speed!
At 130mph (and at every point getting there), there was no obvious aural indication that I was seriously flyin'. It was just that marvelous Teutonic hum that would make Beethoven proud. The car was rock solid stable, yet still clearly nimble. Some would argue that this car is too quiet, not manly-sounding enough. I say this is the result of world-class engineering in the service of a true GT (as opposed to a pure sports car).
A word about the suspension tuning is in order. I have argued with the (E36) M3 owners in the S4 vs. (old) M3 forum that the S4 is the superior all-around car mainly because of the awd and better balanced comfort+sport suspension tuning. At one point I was going around a long curve at 105mph, except that the road surface became really bumpy with various pockmarks, etc. My brain said I should become really concerned. My S4 said 'Don't worry, be happy!' as I took that bad boy at triple-digit speeds. Therein lay the S4 superiority to the old M3. The M3 can do everything the S4 does EXCEPT: 1) come out of the back end of curves as fast (thanks Quattro system); 2) stay as firmly planted in adverse road/weather conditions; or 3) be as comfortable doing all of the above.
I was having so much fun I drove all the up to Wisconsin, before too much traffic made me turn back. At that point, I just wanted to listen to my CDs and chill out in comfort. With the S4, that was no problem. In the course of my fast run, I smoked a Porsche Boxster, Saab turbo convertible, Mercedes E430 sedan, and a BMW Z3. In the course of my slow run back home, I was more comfortable in my car than all I came across save the E430 and a BMW 740iL--but mine cost one heck of a lot less and is more fun. All in all, I'd say I love my S4.
That said, here are some gripes Audi had better address--or the next car will be a BMW M3 or M5. First of all, the stick is just too balky. The 1-2 and 2-3 are problematic. I can't believe Audi didn't catch this obvious flaw. Come on Audi, Honda has the smoothest sticks I've experienced and BMW is better as well--please steal some of their people and fix this problem.
Secondly, Audi's marketing people need to wake up. Am I the only one who thinks it rather silly to make your 'statement' performance automobiles...station wagons!? Let's see. BMW has the M3 and M5 (and soon the return of the marvelous 6 series--perhaps an M6?). Mercedes has the AMG series (sedans, GT coupes, sports coupes, convertibles). Audi? The S4--a sedan only--which has been leapfrogged by the new M3. The S8--nice, but we're talking full-size luxo/autobahn cruisers here. Their serious, maximum-performance vehicle is...the RS4 station wagon (not even available in the US) and soon the S6 station wagon. Audi, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! How exciting, high-peroformance station wagons! Audi, please note your competition. Give us an aggressive looking S4 COUPE (like that one in the German spy photo) and a M5-worthy, ultra-performance S6 super-SEDAN! I read a quote from an Audi marketing person who said it was not worthwhile to build an S6 sedan because it would be too much like the current 4.2 A6. Well, duh! How about pulling out the stops and making a super S6 sedan?
Audi, you seem to be suffering from an inferiority complex. You can clearly build world-beating cars, but you persist in pulling your punches because you think people won't buy your super-tuned product or that it won't help overall sales. BMW and Mercedes build their super cars so that the brand cachet can bring more buyers for 330i's, 320s, 5281's., etc. You are not doing the sales of A4's and A6's a favor by not building the supercar versions of those platforms. For heaven's sake build 'em. You will get buyers for the supercars if you stop holding back! Once you start getting that supercar auto-lust from people like me, then those who can't afford the supercars will buy more A4's and A6's. There are legions of people like me who salivate over the M3's and M5's of the world, but who will spend their limited dollars on the tamer versions of those objects of lust. Audi, wake up. NO ONE SALIVATES OVER AUDI SUPERCARS...cuz you don't have any! References to your racing accolades don't mean a heck of a lot if you don't bring more of that expertise to your real cars.
That said I love my S4...but as I salivate over what I can do to top it, my mind is firmly on BMW. Now if you came out with that 340hp S4 super-COUPE, with a sport/comfort suspension switch, 18" rubber, a SMOOTH 6spd (or USEFUL paddle-based tiptronic), more aggressive styling, and every luxury amenity (including steering wheel-based controls and a real navigation system), my lust would revert back to Audi. Similarly, if you came out with a serious M5-beating S6 SEDAN, then I would revert back to Audi when I contemplate a married-man or older-man car. Audi, please wake up! End of diatribe....
When I ordered my car I wanted to folding rear seat and was told that there were "issues" and it was not currently in production. I ended up going ahead with everything else and dropping the folding seat. I just wanted to let you know this. Are you sure that the folding seat is available for production now? When I check the "build your own" on the MB website, there is still no mention of it. You may want to check with your dealer.
Good Luck with your car I look forward to hearing how you like it. I know I am going to love mine.
Enjoy your car too and keep us posted as to how you like it and if you have any problems. It sure is hard to wait but I'm sure it will be well worth it when it arrives.
Mr. John01, yes, I have written a warning on the Audi board that the price premium on the upcoming RS6 had better play out in superior real-world performance over the M5, or Audi will face a marketing backlash. As for the other puerile comments ("Gee, he probably can afford one!", etc.), what's the point? I actually drove the cars because MB invited me to do so--I'm certain they sought me out because their marketing staff found out I'm an Audi owner. Kudos to MB for having the guts to try to convert me with an actual driving experience. But my judgment stands: Too much money for too little performance. The E500, however, is promising. The fact that MB is now going to sell a 4-motion version of their top E-Class sedan (not just the 320) is an obvious appeal to Audi buyers. Hopefully, MB will tweak some more performance out of the platform by the time they offer it next spring....
"As for the other puerile comments ("Gee, he probably can afford one!", etc.), what's the point?"
I happen to own a 530 and like my car better than the E-class, needless to say. Frankly I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but if you want to be taken seriously, I suggest you read what others write more carefully before firing back.
I have a metallic black E500 on order and am trying to decide if it is a good idea. I know that not having rock chips would be great. I am concerned about what it will look like after 3-4 years.
Anyone know what happens after a few years? Has anyone seen it on a black vehicle?
Mercedes dealer says that it would be $650.on the E500. They also say they install a lot of them each month. They say they install for the BMW dealer as well.
Hopefully someone can give me some advice.
I question the accuracy of Flexible Service System that can not tell the difference between regular and synthetic oil, and let the owner go all the way to 20K with regular oil.
Why not just change the oil at 3K with regular oil and 7,500 with synthetic and just ignore this system.Fixing the damaged engines will cost MB about $106M!! Mercedes will cover engine damage for 5 years/150K miles IF regular oil was used in those engines.
Am I correct that the flexible Service System started with new V-6 engines and pre-98 in line six cylinders are not affected?
1. Good snow tires for this car?
2. Should I get a new set of rims, too?
3. If yes for #2 above, what would be a good, reasonably priced wheel set?
Thank-you in advance for any help.
Meanwhile, let's settle down in here, okay? We don't need to attack each other because we have different priorities and preferences.
Thanks.
:-)
Blizzaks are unbelievable on ice. Steering and braking are vastly improved over the OEM all season tires.
TireRack carries the Blizzak and the Michelin Alpin winter tire. They can be purchased mounted, balanced, and ready for installation. Price will probably run $1000-1200.
It has been awhile since I posted, but oh well.
Has anybody heard of a fabric liner for the rear of wagon? A friend of mine purchased one for his E wagon, but has lost the info, He seems to remember the name as "line-a-truck".
I can't find anything online about it, only the hard plastic type.
Anybody know anything about this?
Thanks
Tim
When did Mercedes ever put performance first? Since I've been old enough to pay attention to MB cars the E-Classes (W123, W124, W210) have always been luxury cars first with the first true performance variant not arriving until the 1992 W124 "500E" model.
The E500 is obviously just want MB fans want. If you want more "performance" from an E-Class then they'll offer you a 469hp E55 for 2004, which I see beating the RS6 and M5 at least in that ever so important 0-60 contest. The E-Class' basic function was never to be as sporty as the 5-Series. The A6 doesn't detrone the 5-Series either when it comes to handling. No car does.
Why are you comparing the much smaller tuner-oriented S4 to the E500 and CL500. The CL500 and E500 are luxury cars first. Should I compare the 493hp SL55 to the S4? How about the C32 and the S4?
I agree wholeheartedly that Mercedes-Benz needs get it together on quality, no doubt, but to say they have strayed from ALL of there core values is just plain incorrect. Mercedes has always been and still is the top innovator in the automotive world. The 2003 S-Class has just introduced yet another level of safety engineering. This new braking technology will be duplicated in other cars in the years to come. The SL's top design is class-leading.
In case you hadn't notices MB is on somewhat of a small roll too when it comes to sales. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Mercedes-Benz shouldn't even be selling as many cars as they do considering their cars easily cost more than competing cars. The E and S Class cars are easily the best sellers in their respective classes worldwide. The E is the top selling in the mid-size segment in this country too. Only this year did the 5-Series catchup/surpass it due to the model changeover that all E-Class customers knew about, hence slowing E-Class sales. Watch for the E to easily regain its class leading sales postion once the new E-Class gets up to speed.
I fully understand that you want a sportier more involving experience, thats perfectly understandable. However to blame Mercedes for being what it has always been (a luxury car first) doesn't make sense.
M
Both are fine cars, but like all cars they are compromises. The M5 is a very sporty car, but the reviews that I've read say that the ride is rather unforgiving. Some people don't mind giving up the ride quality in exchange for outstanding handling. But most folks don't use anywhere near the handling capability of a non-sport 530, so the extra handling potential is wasted. And the back seat of the 5 series is rather tight.
I checked again with the dealer and he indicated that the shipping time is "2 to 3 weeks" after it is built. He indicated that this is the normal shipping time on the West Coast. I had heard the 4 to 6 weeks and asked about it. They again said that that has never been correct. I sure hope he is right. Also hope that the Port Strike is long over by the time mine arrives.
Must be tough on people who have been waiting and now there new car is sitting out on the water.
Bummer!!!
Even with all this new found thirst for performance from Lexus, their BMW fighting cars don't sell. The IS300 has been a slow seller from day one and they simply can't give away GS430's compared to the GS300. Yet their LS430, ES300 and SC430 models are their best sellers.
Has Mercedes lost some of that magic from the past? Yes, but it was to be expected with the breakneck expansion they've undergone over the last few years. They've gone from 50K sales a year in 1993 to over 200K last year, this just in the U.S. alone.
BMW does great at the lower end and Mercedes does way better at the top. Nobody opens as many wallets over 80K than Mercedes does, nobody.
For Mercedes to go back to the way they were would mean less volume and higher costs, I doubt if that will happen again. I do see them getting as close to the past as possible, but duplicating it..no. Still worldwide in most people's mind Mercedes still marries performance and luxury perfectly....the sales bare this out.
M
So now I am thinking I should perhaps have one of each. One down, one more to go. Just my 2 cents.
Can anyone lend any credence to what I'm being told about the brakes and the fact that also drive hard?
http://www.thebenzbin.com/replacing-brakes.html
Take look....they recommend rotors (at least front ones) at 50K. Sensors should be replaced with rotors. etc.
They say non-OEM pads squeak.
You also might want to try their Mercedes Benz 'Anti Squeal' Paste (believe it or not). It's 75 cents and has an official MB part number:
Brake Anti-Squeal Paste Single App.
N1005-70245
Their prices seem pretty good, too.
Hope something works out for you.
Mercedes (and everyone else) thought the new Lexus brand of econo-box maker Toyota was a joke in 1989. And now? The belief that consumers like me are just pure sports fanatics, or that BMW is just on some sort of faddish "roll" is no less a horrible misreading of the marketplace realities. I do not begrudge MB enthusiasts' preferences for the E-Class' cocoon-like ride. But MB quite emphatically considers BMW its most direct competitor (as do most other non-MB owners), opinions on this thread notwithstanding. BMW (and Audi, which is a bigger competitor in Europe) are busy redefining what "luxury/sports sedan" should encompass. The rest of the competition isn't standing still either. MB, are you paying attention?
I submit that we all just ignore him and he will go somewhere else and try to disrupt the normal dialog of the board.
I don't know about others but, I have no interest in his opinions.
IMHO, of course. (ignore the guy and he will go away)
I am now offically moving to the "ignore section"...
To everyone else ENJOY your cars as I am.
JR
The lease was up on my 1999 E320. The 2003 is a totally different car when compared to the 1999.
Things I do like about the 2003:
Ride is great, more sporty/stable then 1999
Seat are very comfortable
Handling is crisp
Interior Ambient Lighting is very hi-tech looking
Front profile of car
Storage space
Power In Dash 6 player CD
Trip computer
Rain sensing wipers
New cup holder
Things I don't like:
Rattle/Vibration in dash board when starting off
Went from Digital A/C display to analog version.
Cheap feeling plastic front grill
Rear profile of car
I'll keep you all posted how the car runs since it has only been 2 days since I picked it up. My partner picked his up the day after me. Same car only in Silver Metallic. His radio has shorted out and refuses to play other then static through the speakers.
Sort of embarrassing. You purchase a $54k car and when you go to show your family and friends, it either rattles every time you move forward or the radio just plain shorts out...! Great !
Deep down I don't think MB is worried about BMW past the C-Class and 3-Series level, otherwise an air suspension wouldn't be on the new E or S-Class cars, Mercedes is not trying to match BMW any other level other than entry level.....and even there they didn't go all the way. The S and E-Class cars dominate worldwide, BMW isn't even close. There there is the SL and CL of which BMW is lost for a competitor. The Z8 is a collectors car in comparison.
M
Any other reports--good or bad-- from anyone else that has taken delivery of 2003.
I am waiting for E500 but would cancel in a heart beat if there is any quality concerns. Not willing to put up with this type of thing.
Hopefully there is no pattern and this is just a unfortunate situation.
Looking at this board, 'popping' a rear power window seems to be a common problem. I noticed that the motor is still working, and the window still makes an attempt to move. (Even though it can now be moved by hand.)
I'm planning on pulling the door cover this weekend to check if the window maybe just jumped the track and the window simply needs aligning overall. (Got a manual outlining the steps, but never had to do this until now.)
Did anybody have a similar experience, or am I on my way to the 'maintenance & repair' forum ?
It is a Black E 320 with
* - HK stereo / CD changer
* - Pano roof
* - Phone
* - Sunshades
* - Keyless Go (great feature)
Everything is working well. The car handles great and has been a joy to drive. Only problem is my is hinting at wanting to upgrade her C 230!
I hope everyone can have the positive experience I have had. Good luck to all.
So far so good. Finally found the Benz has the seat totally fit with the body.
-- mb_newbie
Anyhow, thanks a lot for your advice, it is much appreciated.
Hope to hear from some other new owners.
Thanks for nay feedback. I can hardly wait and I'm starved for any info!
Unfortunately, mine is not stone interior (due to the sports package), but in my opinion, they all look good. (the dealer has one for demo)
One recommendation, CALM DOWN, especially when you pick up the car (usually people will get overwhelming with the new car smell, gadgets, lights...so on and so forth; however, they forgot that's the final chance that they can reject the car or ask the dealer to put the "fixes" on paper without too much problems). A lot of problems that people complain about usually can also been found during the car pickup phase, but they fail to do that, and all of sudden they found scratches everywhere after they went home(overstatement).
Prepare a list of frequent problems people listed here, and also put down what you have in mind, so you won't get "lost" when the day comes.
Well, the "feeling" will die down a little (I am not as excited as 3 wks ago...), but the satisfaction is still there.
Hope you will have a nice experience with your new toy.
-- mb_newbie