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Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans
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Comments
I personally don't think Mercedes needs to make their cars better handlers than BMWs. Sure certain Benz models could use more life in their steering, but out-handling a BMW on a mountain road was never, ever part of the Mercedes-Benz engineering brief or philosphy.
Car and Driver's latest test consisted of mountain road running in which the C320 isn't going to do as well as a 330i. Interestingly enough Automobile Magazine has a article in their Nov issue about 330Ci and Infiniti G35 Coupe. They also have a side segment about the CLK320 and how it compares, they immediately declare the Benz to be what it is first and foremost, a luxury car. They liked the E500, but of course they'd still pick a 540i over it right now. The A6 4.2, Q45 and GS430 probably not, but the 540i yes simply because it handles better.
Mercedes' "problem" isn't handling or "sportiness" it's bringing back that bank vault feel and construction and reliability. If they did those things they way they used too, nobody would be harping about them not being able out out-handle a BMW. Mercedes' were reliable at a time when BMWs clearly weren't. There are so many old Mercedes' on the road today that are in such great shape, W124, W126, R129, W140 to the point where I can't believe Mercedes would be willing to trade such longevity for such things as out-handling BMWs. Don't get me wrong I love BMW to death, but once people discover that someone else can make a car capable of matching or surpassing a BMW in handling, BMWs are going to have to stand on the other merits of their cars. Not that they can't do that, but it's going to be a lot tougher.
M
As an aside, I am very pleased with my car. It has a very comfortable ride, but responds very well when pushed. It feels very safe and secure and is a pleasure to drive. I'm looking forward to taking it into the mountains this winter.
Seriously, I can nit-pick a few things about Mercedes and a few things about BMW, but thank goodness they have each other. I believe both have improved their offerings over the years based upon their healthy competitive rivalry. Lexus, as far as I am concerned, has added little to the equation, at least from an engineering or driving enthusiast perspective. They are probably the best built, most boring to drive cars in automotive history.
I only hope Mercedes offers a turbodiesel E-class prior to my daughter getting full driving privaledges in a year or two. That's the "tank" I would feel most comfortable having her in.
Bottom line for me: this car has plenty of oomph for me, and is throughbred on the highway. YMMV.
Let me know if you have more specific questions.
If so, please post to this thread. I am curious if there are deals to be made since this is a new car.
Thanks in advance.
Despite how much some folks love MB on this board, they aren't 'hot' at the dealerships here that carry them and the competition. (BMW and Lexus).
Herb Chambers in Brookline, MA has 45 (forty five!) E320's in stock.
17 2003 E320's
15 2003 E500's
the rest are 2002s, 2002 Wagons, 2003 Wagons.
I hear that you can get a deal there too.
Oh and the AWD will not be much of an impediment. The other day, during a rainy day, I was next to a FWD Mitsubishi Eclipse Turbo. Kid was sitting at the light gunning his engine. I'm on my way to day care but I figure why not. Light turns green and I punch it. His tires spin on the wet pavement, my car just launches like it was a dry day.
Another story. 6 of us take a road trip across country roads, I lead and a friend in his big bad X5 (supposedly car like) follows, 3 in each car. I'm driving and chatting with my friends enjoying the ride. We get to the destination and the X5 driver is like "WTF are you trying to do, get me to flip?". Apparently a casual spin in the E on these country roads is beyond the handling limits of his vehicle. I can only imagine what it would have been like if we were actually trying to race.
The fact of the matter is, the car manufacturers are going crazy with HP and torque. there's way more than anybody needs for day to day use, even in a "lowly" 320. My 1980 Toyota Corolla had something like 90 HP and I could still lay a patch by popping the clutch. You have to see what your main use of the car is. If you're getting it to do ralley driving, sure, the 320 probably won't win many races. If you're looking for a safe, solid, well engineered family car that is economical and very very enjoyable to drive, you can't go wrong.
I will only drive AWD here in NH and I believe that I own the finest car I could possibly own.
Regards,
BigRob.
I too have a terrible problem with squeaking brakes on my 2001 C. I have ordered a 2003 E. It is due into port next Thursday.
I have really lost my love for the C. I thought it was going to be great, but I have had quite a few fairly major problems with it and have decided to go with the E. Also, the C seems to be losing its value VERY quickly. Much quicker than any other Mercedes I have ever owned.
if you keep your foot very close to the brake. Occassionally with really heavy downpours you really can't see much in front of you and I wondered if the distronic would function sort of like radar, or do severe weather conditions deteriorate its' functioning?
Got $500 off by being a AAA Member. Got the break from Mission Viejo, CA, but Caliber in Anaheim Hills, CA honored the price.
RZRob http://www.rzrob.com
Some have discussed old E vs. new E.
If you believe that $7,000 is a good discount on the 2002 E-320, Clair Motors in the Boston area is advertising them in today's Boston Globe. Deal is an 'up to $7K' off deal and is limited to in stock vehicles only.
You can see what they have at www.clair.com. Their inventory shows 5 or 6 2002 E's, a mix of 320's and 430's, and a couple of 4-matics. They have 2 E55's.
And just think, a month ago, the dealer's wouldn't even budge.
C: Compact
E: Executive
S: Special
M: Multi-Purpose or Multi-use
G: Gelandewagen (German which I believe means something like over the terrain)
There are other interpretations to all the letters, but these seem to be accepted in most publications or lists.
The numbers may mean engine size, unless marketing gets in the way. (C240 should be C260 but the E240 was so popular in Europe they kept the numeric).
What I think is lost on this august group is that in Germany the highways are as smooth and polished as a baby's bottom. Slo-poke grannies keep to the side...while driving "only" 90-100mph. M-B cars used to define what a luxurious ride was supposed to be AT TRIPLE DIGIT SPEEDS. That is, M-B sedans were always "luxury/sport" sedans by definition. The comments I read in reaction to Mr. ilxman were nothing short of shocking. They clearly show that M-B's American baby-boomer marketing has overwhelmed their engineering heritage, since this group repeatedly makes the false distinction of M-B=luxury vs. BMW=sport.
Consider the new brochure I received for the E-Class. Under the heading "New Attitude" the brochure states: "...[T]he new E-Class captures the keen-edged handling of a European sport sedan and ride quality that could only belong to a Mercedes-Benz." That this is a "new" development for Americans is quite a sad commentary on how M-B engineering prowess has been subsumed under the M-B baby-boomer marketing juggernaut. A cocoon that totally divorces me from the road may be OK in a traffic jam, but not at 125mph. More precise steering, simpler ergonomics (fiddling with buttons at 125mph anyone?), and better road feel would indeed be improvements--I'll also join Mr. ilxman in that criticism. The thing is, M-B engineers already provide some of that in some of their AMG models, but the marketing people are too busy dumbing down the handling in core models to cater to boomers like Mr. ccmguy. And yes, M-B has bragged incessantly about their leading-edge new braking system (again a big concern when traveling 125mph!)--and then we find out they can't out-brake a current-generation Lexus(!), let alone a BMW. Folks, these are issues of functional LUXURY, not just "sport" for us Europeans. The point here is that if the Stuttgart engineers were truly let loose to re-define braking in a sedan, I'm confident they would have--instead, M-B marketing dictates that they just stay "close enough" to the leader. This was not the M-B attitude not too long ago....
I love my memories of driving M-B on the autobahn over the years of my youth (my parents' cars, of course--I'm 37 y.o.). But if not for my wife's fascination with the 3-pointed star, I would have bought a 540i or Audi A6 4.2 to go along with my 911. Mr. ilxman has opened up a badly overdue discussion on the future of M-B, since younger Americans have been schooled on true European driving machines by BMW and won't typically settle for less as a result. That said, the 320 is certainly luxurious and handles well enough for typical American driving tastes--but it could be better if the engineers were let loose once again.
Vee are sorry dat de factory has omitted the 's' in the verd 'fascinating' in discussions to ver new Merscedes.
As you are avare, de 'S' Class Merscedes are de most luxury brand dat vee hab. Der was a shortage of 'S's at de factory dis month and we had to ship your new E widout the 's' in fascinating so dat the 'S's had all of der 'S's. A replacement 's' for your new E hab been ordert. It vill be at your dealership in several months. Please czek with your servise deeparment to see if it hab arrived. Ven dee missing 'S' is added to ver new 'E', discussions about it vill be fascinating too.
Danke
MerscedesBense.
-- sorry. I don't visit here too often. But it's always fun to see what's up. Tongue in cheek of course, and no offenses meant. Just reminded me of some experiences I had with an MB dealer.
Did you get it yet? If so did you have the invica-shield installed? What color did you get?
Does it take away from the appearance?
I have a black E500 due in a couple of weeks and can't decide what to do. Black and rock chips don't go together, but sure don't want to put something on that takes away from the appearance.
Anyone else have any experience? The Mercedes dealer tells me that they put on 6 or 7 a week, including BMW. The MB dealer is the only one doing the work in the area.
Lexus dealer says they put them on all the time and reccommend them.
Have not seen one on a black MB.
Check it out at www.nytimes.com The link is at the bottom of the main page. You have to do a funky register to access but what the heck.
Seems reasonable since I will have to order a car to get one and they have very few on the lot. Maybe big market dealers have more inventory and are doing deals. I'm not sure. Let me know what you think.
Thanks!
It seems that the large dealers in the metro areas have to try to hold the line so that they can treat all of their repeat customers equally. Smaller cities seem to be more willing to discount on a normal basis for everyone.
calipro, I am highly skeptical about your opinions on the new form of engineering that goes on at Mercedes. Article after article has praised both the 320 and the 500 with or without Airmatic on the autobahn speed stability it exhibits AND the fact that you can consider it a drivers car. Mercedes has not lost it's high speed stability in any of its cars nor will it ever "dumb" itself down to American tastes. It may adapt which is evidenced by the fact that European Benzes ride lower than American market Benzes but the shock and spring ratings are not compromised for us. If anything, they're an optimal balance between handling and luxury performance.
Your opinion on the braking performance of the new E class and it's window into Mercedes' lack of optimized cutting edge technology is completely farfetched (note the word optimized). Not only has the SL and the E class been praised for their braking performance and impressive braking distances and fade resistance, the technology itself has been praised for it's "intelligence" and the fact that it is completely revolutionary. I can guarantee Lexus will emulate this technology.
While I agree that the system may feel artificial or not completely seemless, I give credit to Mercedes for actually coming out with it and continually working on making it feel like a normal braking system while working much better. For example, the SL500 braked from 70 in 158 feet according to Car and Driver, that is phenomenal.
Should I buy new rims and snow tires? A friend who has an older model with ESP system claims that I don`t need them. I live in a house where the garage is under the house and the driveway
has an apx. 30 degree slope.
_______
So most likely, it's their suppliers of major subsystems, like Hella for lighting and Contential - Teves for suspension and braking that are the ones doing the revolutionary work.
There's a good article on the Conti website in their press archive from September 1999 where they laid out the product roadmap from ABS through Electronc Hydraulic and Electro Mechanical braking.
Conti also did the air suspension that is getting popularized in the 2003 Audi A8. It's very similar to the Lexus system. GM has an interesting ferrofluidic system in the shocks of the new Corvettes, that actually modulates the suspension effects of the shocks in real time, by changing the force field on the ferrofluid, thereby changing its viscosity. I don't know if it was developed inhouse or not.
Speaking of which, the new Sensotronic Cruise Control in the new E was 'emulated' by Lexus in the 2001 LS430 with their 'laser cruise control' two model years ago.
Jean
There were some pretty nice ones in favor of the Lexus here on Edmunds:
At: http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/roadtest/46353/article.html
The reviewer actually commented favorably, on,
Lexus handling on Molholland Drive! Imagine that.
And at:
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/44015/article.html
Anybody know more about it. Who was singing and when it was on?
I'd like to try to get a copy from MB.
Thanks. It was indeed Janis Joplin and the song it was taken from was "Mercedes Benz".
I checked it out on the Amazon and also Barnes & Noble music sites. There is an audio clip there to check it out. It is the same song.
Probably better music sites to check it on but those were the only two I know of easily.
I was surprised that I didn't know who it was or what it was from but, never was a great fan of Joplin.
I got Pewter outside and Charcoal inside. It is so elegant both inside and out. I also ordered the DVD Nav system. Paid the discounted price of $1625. It will arrive in the first quarter of 2003. Dealer will install at no cost when it arrives.
I drove several 2000 thru 2002 E's as demos and loaners over the years. I always said I would not buy one as they appeared stodgy and the interiors were in bad need of update. This car totally changed my mind. It is a very nice, safe, kinda sporty, elegant and beautiful car.
Looking forward to all of your comments about your new cars as well.
"Oh Lord wont you buy me a Mercedes Benz, My friends all drive Porches, I must make amends. . ."
Therefore, when it was delivered, there could be no other license plate for this baby but: "AMENDS"
Bubba
One question though, I have heard several of you reference a $500 discount for purchasing the DVD nav now. Our dealer back in DC(EuroMotorcars) and Loeber Motors in Chicago claim they have never heard of this discount. Where can I find this information to show the dealers that this is in fact true. Euro does huge volume, so I am really surprised that they claim no knowledge of the promotion.