Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

wsteh · November 2002

I actually have not sat in an E-Class since '93 when I bought my GS300. That was two generations ago, so maybe the headroom has increased significantly, even with a sunroof.

But regarding the resale value, I typically keep my cars 8+ years, so I don't think it becomes so much of an issue. Besides, if I want wind in my hair, I do have a Mazda Miata as a 3rd car!

clark217 · November 2002

I replaced my burned-out bulbs in my instrument cluster using the Mercedes hook tool last weekend. The job went very quickly. The instrument cluster is friction fitted into the dash with two white plastic inserts on each side that provide the friction. The white plastic inserts have tapered grooves into which the hook of the hook tool fits. Simply insert the hook (aligned with the edge of the cluster) into the edge of cluster next to the small buttons. Slide the tool in 2-3 inches and then rotate it 90 degrees so the hook is pointing toward the cluster, then pull the hook out until you feel it engage in one of the grooves. Do the same for the other side and pull on both hooks simultaneously. The instrument cluster pops out quite readily. I made a graphic showing the bulb locations, wattages and part numbers, but am unsure how to post it since it is a jpg file on my computer and the posting instructions are for files on the internet. Any help would be appreciated.

Clark217

footie · November 2002

* Begin the process of posting a message, type the title and initial text
* Open a new window in your browser
* Go to the File Menu and 'Open File'
* Find the picture or graphic you want to open in the file open box on your computer and open it
* The picture should now be in your new browser window
* The URL for it's location on your computer is now in the url box in this window
* Copy that url
* Go back to the window where you were creating the post for this group
* paste the url you copied into the following text in the body of the message

img src="URL GOES HERE"

* then add a < to the left and a > to the right around the img src="URL GOES HERE"

Here's a photo of a Ohdner Calculator from Germany/Austria in the 1930's I think:

I hope this works for you.

Regards and good luck

mbnut1 · November 2002

I can't see your picture. It's just a red X

mbdriver · November 2002

Me either.

footie · November 2002

Gosh, I thought I had figured out something neat about uploading here on Edmunds.

I followed their instructions, but apparently they don't really cause an upload to occur.

Sysop...what's up with this? Did I do something wrong.

rayscar · November 2002

If you join mbworld.org you can post pictures on that site. They too have an excellent forum for the W211 (new E). I spend time there and on this site. Check it out.

merrel · November 2002

I owned a new 2001 E430 and paid the gas guzzler tax. Car was not at all fuel efficient but I knew this going in. I travel mostly via interstates but never got more than 25.6 mpg which I guess is acceptable. Just traded for 2003 E320 and went from 8 to a 6 cylinder. Second benefit is 16' tires instead of 17 inch. Once you attain 60-65mph you cannot tell difference-at least I can't on my 6 cyl. I don't live for g-force speed acceleration as many younger people do so aside from gas guzzler tax, I now get 33.6 mpg, smaller tires, less cost and I'm happy.

mbdriver · November 2002

Smaller tires are a benefit? I don't understand your reasoning. BTW, some of the compacts and subcompacts have 13" tires!

No offense meant -- I'm just curious because almost two years ago I "upgraded" my 2000 E320 from 16" to 17" wheels and tires. I'm absolutely delighted with the changes in handling, road feel and responsiveness.

cls73 · November 2002

Can you purchase the 17" 5-spoke wheels as a stand-alone option? It's currently included in the Sport Package, but I don't find that package to be appealing. I just want the wheels. Any thoughts?

pat · November 2002

The Town Hall does not have an area where you can actually upload pictures. If you look in your Owners Club (link at top of page), you'll find a Photo Gallery discussion -- the first message there will show you how to cause a picture (hosted on another site) to display in your message.

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND that if you do not actually own the picture, you should simply link to it. If you use the img src tags to display a picture which you do not own, the Town Hall is open to some serious copyright issues -- and therefore your message will be removed.

OTOH, links to pictures you don't own are acceptable and appreciated, as long as the site hosting the picture does not mind.

lhcleung · November 2002

Hi, everyone, I am one the proud owner of a 2001 E320. In my case I truly didn't have any problem. I just love the car. It is a pleasure to drive it - feeling so solid and safe. I have just one question though - I just wonder whether using the 'shift gear' feature to slow down the car would be harmful to the car's transmission. I am using such function to save the constant braking of the car. I would imagine it will save the brake pads too. When I drive a manual gear car, I always try to slow the car down by using the lower gear; it's suppose to be a good practice; but I don't know whether this applies to MB automatic with shift gear system. Any information or comments
would be very much appreciated.
Louis

footie · November 2002

Hi lhcleung,

I'd check the E320's owner's manual for instructions for using the transmission to augment normal braking.

If there aren't any instructions advising you how to do it right, you have to decide why not.

If you have ABS or traction control and use the transmission for braking, I sure hope someone in Germany wrote some traction and braking control software that can figure out what you are doing.

Plus "saving" the brakes or brake pads on an E320 by using the transmission does not seem to be a favorable $$$ trade-off. I would think an out of warranty transmission replacement would be several thousand dollars.

IMHO, Use the pedal, waste the brakes.

lhcleung · November 2002

Thanks a lot for the input. I think you are right, because every time I use the 'gear shift' to slow the car down, I can feel the stress burden(i.e., holding the car back) on the transmission. It is certainly better to save the transmission than the brake pads! Thanks again.
Louis

clark217 · November 2002

I'm not interested in posting graphics on another web site so I can link to them here. If anyone is interested in seeing bulb locations, wattages and part numbers for a W210, you can contact me at my email address - llclark@3-cities.com and I'll return your e-mail with the graphic as an attachment.
Clark217

BTW, I notice that if I floor the accelerator, the engine builds serious rpms before the transmission downshifts. There is about a 1-2 second lag before the downshift. Is this normal?

wniel · December 2002

It is normal for the lag time to downshift as there is no direct throttle linkage to the transmission. It is drive by wire and for whatever reason there is lag time,I suppose for the computer to actuate, however, I have never experienced any serious revs of the engine during this lag period. My experience is that the car will accelerate in the original gear during the lag period before it downshifts. Anything different from this I would have checked out.
Wally

jean7of9 · December 2002

There is no problem in down shifting manually to slow the car down. In fact, it is a must under slippery and icy conditions. Most new cars are equipped with semi-manual just for this purpose. Not only you save the brake pads but it is much safer to use engine power to slow down the car. Modern automatic transmissions are smart. They will not/not downshift at speeds which can hurt the engine, they will delay down shifting until it is done at safe RPM to avoid engine stress. MB Pre 2000 transmission shifts are gated just for this purpose.
Jean

mbdriver · December 2002

I believe jean7of9 is absolutely right. If memory serves, the owner's manual for my 2000 E320 advises NOT to downshift to aid slowing/stopping during the break-in period of approximately the first 1,000 miles. It is silent regarding downshifts after that.

I have routinely used downshifts to help slow my car with no ill effects. Incidentally, when the cruise control is engaged while going down a steep hill, the car will downshift in order to maintain the selected speed.

livetodrive · December 2002

One of the pleasures of driving my E430 is using the Touch Shift to change gears. I especially like downshifting, which allows me to maintain better control while decelerating. I am sure it doesn't hurt anything.

gmacosta · December 2002

My 96 E320 engine is getting quite dirty. I've done engine cleaning with simple green on all my japanese cars but never my Mercedes yet. Any special areas to cover??? other than alternator and cap/rotors that shouldnt get flushed/washed??

cce182 · December 2002

Observations to lhcleung & footie

Gee, fellas. An M-B is supposed to be a mecanically robust car that will last forever if properly maintained. Downshifting for engine braking has been around since automobiles were invented: I'm not sure that a lack of an owner's-manual description of its use is any indication at all that it's not recommended. The operator's manual is not driving instructions (except for the "warning" additions required by their liability lawyers).

Why would M-B include a downshifting function if it were possible to inflict excessive wear or damage on the car by using it? In fact, if you ever use the speed control on this car, IT downshifts! The M-B "electric foot" is more than just a throttle control (as found on most cars). If you've set the speed and the car finds you accelerating down a steep hill - it downshifts! Try it!

My 2000 E430 operator's manual includes six pages of transmission operation instructions. The only thing it warns against is coasting for a long time in Neutral. THAT will void your warranty. This section also describes the elaborate protections for the engine and transmission even if you do command a shift.

Downshifting for performance and upshifting for economy are well-established automobile operating techniques. The manual warnings have to do with over-riding the protections of ABS and ESP - not for wear reasons.

Check with those knowledgable (??)folks at your M-B dealer, and I'd bet they'd tell you that the system was designed for this. The "strain" on the drivetrain should be no greater than a quick acceleration followed by a quick lift off the gas pedal.

IMOH, cars in this class are meant to be driven, not babied. In an E320, there should be no problem since the same transmission shows up in the E430, E500, and probably other, bigger, heavier MB's, too.

Perhaps I'll eventually regret it, but I use the touch-shift function all the time.

Drive on!

footie · December 2002

Well, the fun thing about these forums is difference of opinion and I am sure how I feel will get me some face-pies, but...

I feel that MB's track record with both Consumer Reports and JDPowers long term dependability would give one pause before believing " An M-B is supposed to be a mecanically robust car that will last forever if properly maintained." That's a very big supposed to be... and the reason behind my cautionary advice.

In fact MB dependability is shown by both of the long-term monitioring by both of these companies to be average or below, depending on model and year. And we aren't talking about light bulbs here. Recent E-class were Average 97-98, Below Average 99-00, Average in 01. The 2000 S (first year, please forgive them for beta testing 70K cars with consumers) was Poor dependability.

Since maintenance is "free" (i.e. built into the car's price) and the car bugs you to death about getting serviced, you have to assume that most Benz get the love and care they need, and still don't hold up as well as other vehicles.

Plus, if your Benz is equipped with traction control and any of the Vehicle Stability Programs, it seems like to me that down-shifting in any conditions other than boulevard-straight line has you fighting the algortihms in the computer, much like trying to pulse the brakes in a car with ABS.

I'd also point out that BMW's move to the steering wheel paddle-shifting, but still clutch-based, SMG transmission for the M series is a pretty good indicator that for performance reasons, automatics as we know them must have some drawbacks to the quick upshift, downshift issues.

But hey, if someone wants to run around in a 3600 pound sedan, downshifting away like it was a sports car like Mazda Miata that's their call.

finadv · December 2002

Just to clarify things, if anyone has the 2003 Consumer reports buying guide, turn to page 199. There you will see the E-class as Average 97-98, BETTER THAN Average 99-00, Average in 01. People should learn how to read charts before they quote them.

footie · December 2002

Well shame on me! You are correct! I don't have the 2003 guide, but the 2002 in our local library says that you are right.

When I had gone over this some time ago, I must have misread the red check marks as 'below' when they are 'above'.

The E's overall rating is 'average', like this writer's eyes. Must be time for a trip to get them serviced.

habitat1 · December 2002

I have an M5 6-speed and I rarely downshift to use the engine to brake the car, except for very enthusiastic driving on relatively rare occassions. And all I'm endangering is a $1,000 clutch.

Intentionally downshifting an automatic transmission to induce engine braking is, IMO, just plain stupid. You might get away with it for a long time (or not) but don't fool yourself into thinking that it doesn't wear on the transmission components. You've all heard the advice that brakes are cheaper than clutches? Well apply that formula to brakes are cheaper than Mercedes Benz transmissions. I hear $5k is a good deal.

Footie may have slightly misquoted Consumer Reports, but I agree with his conclusion. If you feel compelled to play with the shifter in your E Class, then perhaps you should have gotten a BMW 5 series 5/6 speed instead? They throw in better handling at no extra charge (sorry, cheap shot). Admittedly, I'm not a mechanical engineer, but I employ a few in my company (one of whom drives a 2000 E430). A quick poll at the lunch table has them fully agreeing with me (and the year end bonuses have already been determined).

P.S. For the record, my old 300SEL 6.3 is still running (with another owner) on it's original engine and transmission. Cheap shot above notwithstanding, I am a MB fan, too.

r1_97 · December 2002

"They will not/not downshift at speeds which can hurt the engine, they will delay down shifting until it is done at safe RPM to avoid engine stress. MB Pre 2000 transmission shifts are gated just for this purpose."

What about POST 2000 MB transmissions?

mbdriver · December 2002

Pardon me, but I resent being called stupid (even if it is your opinion) because of the fact that I use the downshift feature when slowing or stopping my 2000 E320. Do you believe that clutch wear bears any resemblance to transmission wear? If so, IMHO, you are missing something (note: I didn't insult you!). And why should I heed "the advice that brakes are cheaper than clutches and apply that formula to "brakes are cheaper than Mercedes Benz transmissions"?

As for footie's assertion about MB reliability, did the Consumer Reports coverage apply to MB transmissions?

cce182 · December 2002

Well, finally - - a discussion here that's more exciting than whether someone got a black or a gray interior.

First, for EPN2 - -

I'm astounded that you can buy a BMW clutch for $1000. And, BTW, it's the flywheel, the pressure plate, the clutch disk, throw-out bearing and the actuating mechanism that are at risk from clutch abuse. The clutch was the first part they picked up when they started building the engine/transmission sandwich outside car. I'd bet clutch-replacement labor alone is $1000-plus. No car manufacturer I'm familiar with will do warranty repairs for their manual-transmission-clutch-based cars, and you can bet it's for a reason. My son's BMW (which he bought used) has already eaten a clutch in it's first 50k miles. And, it is more than $1000 to fix it, fer. sure. Automatic transmissions have fully lubricated (and thus cooled) band and clutch actuation and linkage, and also have the "cushion" of the torque converter to mitigate the mechanical abuse arising from disagreement between transmission input and output RPM. Moreover, the M-B tranny is a 5-speed. This means that the gear ratios (and thus the RPM discontinuities) are smaller gear-to-gear, further reducing mechanical stress on the system. When you downshift an M-B transmission, there is really very little exciting happening, e.g. passenger heading for the windshield, air-bag deployment, or other signs that the system would rather you didn't downshift.

For footie.

I said that M-B's are "SUPPOSED to have mecanical robustness that will last forever if properly maintained". Sadly, this doesn't square with my experience, and the scary part is that most of my car's recurring maladies have little to do with mechanical issues. In terms of thwarting a computer's algorithms - the computer isn't looking out my windshield and I reserve the right to override what the computer is thinking to adjust for conditions I see that the "computer" can't. That doesn't mean that I "downshift(ing) away like it was a sports car like Mazda Miata" as you imply. Rather, that the function is there to be used as the driver sees fit and one should not shy away from using it for fear that the drivetrain won't take it. On "fighting the algortihms in the computer": some of the "software" in this car's computer bears scary kinship with a Microsoft Beta release. At any rate, M-B gave me the device to override the car's "algorithms" - - the "+/- gate" in the D position of the transmission - right at my elbow. This is much easier and more direct than that silly zig-zag shift-gate system that was part of the older M-B designs (and the current Jaguars, for example). In any event, the shifting patterns described in the owner's manual suggest that it's far more difficult to abuse the tranny (even if you are determined to do so), compared to the havoc a ham-fisted manual transmission driver can wreak. BTW, my 2000 M-B E430W4 doesn't weigh 3600 lbs. It's more like 3944 lbs and to that you need to add a full tank of gas (127#), a driver and 4 Pax (using the FAA bogey for passenger weight of 170# figure 850#) - some small packages in the trunk, and you're up to about 5000#. Even then, reasonable downshifting is probably OK - at least with an automatic. Okay, so it's not a miata, but it's still fun to drive.

My question for everyone - - do you think a downshift of one gear is more or less abusive than, say, stomping the gas from a dead stop and taking the car right to 100+mph at full engine power while going up through the gears? Remember that these shift points are chosen to maximally bracket the highest torque the engine makes at the next shift point. The performance of the E430 and E55 certainly encourage this, and the E320 is no slouch in the acceleration department, either. The major reason in this case for leaving the shifter in "D" is that at least one review of the car (Car & Driver, as I recall) found the performance of the car to be better left in Drive than with the testers fiddling with the shifter

habitat1 · December 2002

You're right, I should exercise more restraint. I intended to question the appropriateness of the action, not the intelligence of the person employing it. My apologies.

However, you may be convinced that downshifting an automatic to create high enough RPM's to actually brake a 3,600+ lb sedan doesn't strain or wear on the transmission. I'm not. And I do believe that certain driving habits that produce excessive manual clutch wear will, in the case of an automatic, produce long term transmission wear.

I guess it's the point of doing it that I don't quite get. I've driven both the E55 and C32 and must admit that AMG automatics, while still not my preference, are simply supurb. Both automatically downshifted under braking and appeared to always be in the optimal gear for quick acceleration. They also have excellent brakes that did their job quite adequately with no engine/transmission assistance. I understand that standard MB transmissions aren't as quick shifting as AMG versions.

I can't say for certain, but I sincerely do not recall from my two peformance driving courses (Porsche and BMW) any instances of the instructors using engine braking around the courses. Downshifting was done almost seamlessly in conjunction with braking in order to keep the car in the sweet spot for acceleration. But not as an alternative to using the brakes.

I suspect - and please don't take this personally - that most automanuals and steptronics are not really performance enhancing, but rather aimed at giving the driver the perception of driving a manual. For me, I prefer the real thing.

jean7of9 · December 2002

In 2000 MB came out with the Touch-Shift to make it easier for driver to Down/Upshift. Hence, you can have a leisurely drive by letting the transmission do its work alone, or, if you want spirited driving use the Touch-Shift.
I am driving MB's since 1975 with no/no transmission problems. Sometimes, in Europe (and elsewhere) I drove through mountains over 10,000ft. There no way you can rely on your brakes when driving through steep down hills, the heat will fry the disks and you will lose control. Only engine/transmission brakes (with little braking)can slow you down and help you take those tight turns on such mountains. Whoever driven up/down Haleakala Volcano in Maui or Hana Road (also in Maui) knows well what I mean.
The only enemy to Auto Transmissions is heat, that is why today's transmissions are equipped with their own radiators to dissipate heat.
Jean

pathdoc · December 2002

I agree that most automatic transmissions are meant for shifting which makes me belive that the shifter function in the new BMW 745 is the worst feature rather than idrive or looks. I have owned many manual cars from Porsches to Vettes to Miatas to MGBs and have always enjoyed shifting however was warned many years ago that downshfting to help brake to a stop was not a good idea since brakes were much less expensive to repair/maintain than clutches.
Currently I drive a Jag XKR and Mercedes S 500 and continue to use the shifter to keep the rpms at the proper level for passing or turning. I never drive in "drive" around town leaving it for the freeway driving. When I drove a new BMW 745 it was the transmission set-up that convinced me that I wasn't interested.

mbnut1 · December 2002

Brakes are cheaper to replace than transmissions / drivelines. The bottom line is the more power you transmit (accelerating or decelerating) the greater the rate of wear. It's your choice as to which device you want to wear more quickly.

footie · December 2002

For cce182

You wrote: At any rate, M-B gave me the device to override the car's "algorithms" - - the "+/- gate" in the D position of the transmission - right at my elbow.

I don't think you can turn off ABS and don't know if the VSP has an on/off switch either. Maybe you can - I learn things every day, even how to read Consumer report graphs right. :=)

But I wouldn't think the algorithms are overridden - constrained maybe - perhaps it can't shift gears up/down to affect acceleration to increase/decrease rotational speed on different wheels, if it thought it needed to...

But the Stability Control system is constantly watching the entire vehicles dynamics with sensors much faster than us, using programs (hopefully not from Microsoft), to figure out whether the car is doing what seems to be intended. I think we are always better off doing that ...

It has the most freedom to do that when it has the full range of brakes, active suspension, and engine / transmission to work with.

I think part of the magic in newer MBs, BMWs, etc. is the car's ability to make you think you are driving better than you are.

finadv · December 2002

According to the 2003 Consumer Reports Guide, E-Class transmissions were rated as follows: 96 Excellent, 97 Good, 98-99 Very Good, 00-01 Excellent.

mbdriver · December 2002

You say it' pretty simple -- "Brakes are cheaper to replace than transmissions / drivelines." No argument there.

You also say that it's your choice as to which device you want to wear more quickly. Right again!

But what you seem to be missing is the fact that the expected life of a Mercedes transmission, with or without downshifting, is probably many times more than the expected life of a clutch with a manual tranny. So, it stands to reason that the transmission will last for the expected useful life of the car.

epn2 -- thanks for the response. I guess the bottom line is that you believe what you want to believe, and I'll do the same. I'll continue to downshift to brake or whenever, and I'm convinced that I'll never have to worry about abusing the transmission. NOW -- if I had a manual tranny, I'd wear out the brakes and NOT the clutch.

rbrenton88 · December 2002

There is some sort of 'secret code' to shut off ABS, although it is a complicated set of button-pushing on the dash computer that nobody would bother with while moving.

For CCE182: Oh, I have the charcoal interior. Thanks for asking.
(heh heh)

jean7of9 · December 2002

ABS and ESP control the brakes only. They have nothing to do with the transmission which is connected directly to the engine computer. One can enjoy manual shifting as he pleases and let ABS/ESP/TRC do their valuable support work. ABS/ESP will not stop the car shorter but will provide you with better brake control on slippery roads. When the wheels have good traction both ABS/ESP are inactive. When I got my car in late 98, I spent many hours driving on frozen lakes just to get the feeling of the ABS/ESP/TRC/4matic combination. No doubt without them driving on ice sheets could be very tricky for a rookie. But I also discovered that ESP have a tendency to brake and disconnect the throttle when all wheels are slipping. The car comes to to a sudden stop then rolls again and again. My passengers were wondering why I was pumping the throttle which I was not, it is ESP doing its job, badly. Recently we were blessed by 30 inches of snow in 8 days and plenty of icy roads. During heavy traffic I switched-off ESP to prevent these sudden stops which can surprise the cars behind me and kiss my bumper.
Please do not assume that I am encouraging other people to change driving habits and start hitting the gearshift. I am only trying to share some of my experience after 500k miles of driving on four continents. The beauty of this board is in its wealth of info. I learned a lot from it, and only trying to pay it forward.
Jean

stvir · December 2002

"ESP compares the driver's intended course, via steerig and braking inputs, to the vehicle's response, via lateral acceleration, rotation (yaw) and individual wheel speeds. ESP then brakes individual front or rear wheels and/or reduces excess engine power as needed to help correct understeer (plowing) or oversteer (fishtailing)."

The last sentence is what ESP is designed to do. ESP is not intended to stop the car; rather, it is designed to keep the car 'going straight' ... i e, no sideways motion allowed. One doesn't need to hit the brakes for ESP to activate. A real sharp turn at excessive speeds will call on ESP to activate. If ESP is turned off, one is relying on pure driving skills to avoid plowing or fishtailing.

ABS, on the other hand, simply prevents wheel lockup which may cause lose of steering control. It is therefore designed to keep the vehicle rolling until coming to a complete stop. ABS cannot be turned off.

microrepair · December 2002

www.av-wood.com/mb-bug.jpg

(I can't seem to make the [img src="URL"] thingie work, so you'll have to copy and paste the above URL yourself..)

cce182 · December 2002

jean7of9

You are almost correct, but missed one important point.
ESP also controls the throttle!

ESP's primary design objective (according to the owner's manual) is to "counteract over/understeer by applying brakes to the appropriate wheel to create a countervailing vehicle movement." It's watching driver's steering wheel position to determine "driver intent". But, in an obscure reference in the Owner's manual, ESP also has a "torque-reduction feature", which is, in effect, a throttle control. I have experienced the effect of this "feature" personally - - it makes climbing a slippery hill far more difficult than when ESP is disabled.

What we all should get out of this is that it's important to read the manual and understand exactly what ABS, ESP, and BAS (heretofore unmentioned on this website) are thinking about and the corrections they try to make to mitigate what "they" (these systems) see as a problem. (there are parallels in aviation - - understanding exactly what the autopilot is thinking and how it reacts to it's perception of the environment). In severe slippery conditions of the kind we experience in New England (and now, evidently, going on in North Carolina) it is possible that the better course is to disable (that is, turn off) ESP and drive like you were taught before these "autopilot" systems were put into their cars. I have 4-Matic and Blizzak's and still have found occasions where ESP is not helping.

BTW rbrenton88: Oh, I, too, have a charcoal interior. And a Brilliant Silver exterior, CLK wheels, E1, E2, K2a, COMAND, etc. (heh heh). Do you really care? By the way - re: Nappa Leather - - What's a "Nappa"? Is this similar to a "Nauga"?

y2k4m · December 2002

I just had my "B" service performed and inquired about the cabin filter. The service manager said that these were good for ever and DID NOT need to be changed. Is this true? I find it hard to believe that the filters would "last forever". I await your humble responses.

jean7of9 · December 2002

Well said, thank you for making the point. Although I wrote that ESP disconnects the throttle, I should have elaborated that this happens during heavy yaw on ice or slippery patch. While I have some reservation about ESP I must assure every one that the overall combination of ESP/TRC/4matic/ABS can sometimes provide an exquisite experience, (as you well know Charles). Soon our snowmobile season will start. Like every year my 4matic will take me with full confidence to our station where no other car can go except 4WD trucks and the likes of Audi Quattro. There I will put all MB systems to test again on a huge frozen lake where we could reach speeds achievable only on racing track. Only a 4matic is more enjoyable on frozen lakes than snowmobiles (we call them Ski-doo).
Jean

r1_97 · December 2002

My '98 E320 needs new front breaks. I was told the rotors also needed replacement because they were "undersized" from wear and that it is usual for the rotors to last only between every other pad replacement. I was quoted $390.00 for the complete replacement of front brakes and rotors. Is this right or am I getting screwed?

jean7of9 · December 2002

If your disks are undersized you must replace them otherwise they will warp one day under heavy braking. Usually MB disks last longer than twice the life of the pads because MB pads contain 90% carbon. That design is meant to wear the pad and keep the rotor in good shape for a long time. That is why we have to endure that infamous carbon dust on the MB wheels. If you do lot of city driving, the rotors will wear much earlier than express ways.
Jean

haspelbein · December 2002

Yes, what the dealer said sounds about right. I have yet to replace either my rotors or my pads, but I measure the thickness of the rotors with a micrometer screw, and check the lateral runout of the rotor with a dial indicator.

If you are really worried that your dealer is screwing you, I would simply measure the rotor thickness myself.

That being said, what the dealer told you sounds reasonable enough. And as Jean indicated, rotor and pad life is strongly dependent on your driving habits.

msg510 · December 2002

I have a problem with the ASR indicator coming on in the instrument panel when I start the engine. It disappears when I hit the reset button. My question is whether this is just a minor problem with the indicator light or whether the parts that run the ASR function itself is no longer functioning. The dealer earlier told me that I simply had to change an ECU unit to make the ASR light go away. But I still wonder whether there is more to the problem. I would appreciate any enlightenment on the AR function. Thanks.

habitat1 · December 2002

Is it my imagination, or has the E-class had some significant price creep over the last few years, culminating with the new model? It seemed to me that the E-class and BMW 5-series were pretty close in pricing (with BMW being slightly cheaper). But now it appears that the E320 is a $50k+ car and the E500 is a $60k+ car, or about $10k+ more than their BMW counterparts through European Delivery.

I am still hoping to get a good deal on a 2003 E320 Wagon to replace our SUV before they change body styles on it, but I'm guessing the $2,000 under invoice I could have gotten one for in June/July 2001 (i.e. 4 matic w/ E2 for about $47.5k) is history.

Also, saw a 2001 E55 with under 10k miles in "showroom condition" advertised in the Washington Post today for an asking price of $55k, obo. Similar vintage M5's seem to still be going for the low $60's. The S class as well doesn't seem to be holding it's value on the used market as well as I would have thought. I'm wondering if Mercedes isn't pushing their new E class MSRP's into the territory that got them in trouble many years ago.

joeadp · December 2002

I think the used car market is soft.

20% year one depreciation on a Porsche or Mercedes seems to be the norm.

As for E Class price creep I paid about 50K, 3 years ago for a 320. The BMW was at the time 10K less. Yes, that does seem like a big spread to pay between the 2 vehicles.

Regards

clark217 · December 2002

When I first picked up my 97 E-420 a couple of months ago, I noticed the triangular yellow light in the instrument cluster coming on. Also noticed the ASR message when I turned the car off and on again. It turns out I had inadvertantly pressed the ASR switch on the console (turning it off) when I was trying to lower the driverside window. As soon as as I turned the ASR switch on again, the messages and warning light stopped coming on.

merc1 · December 2002

The E320 has always cost more than the 6-cylinder 5-Series BMWs. The 528i and now 530i was never close to the E320 in price when loaded. The 530 can touch 50K with everything, but the E320 soars past 50K and is more like 55K with a healthy dose of options. The E430 and 540i were virtually the same whenever you optioned either one of them, but now the E500 has the S-Class style option sheet, i.e. endless. So the average price of a E500 is around or above 60K, right where the 540i normally tops out. The current E-Class is still a much better value than it was some years ago. A 1993 300E started at $49.9K, and it doesn't even begin to approach today's E320. The old 400E's base price, around 55K is more or less what today's E500 costs, again the current car being far and away superior in most respects. Going purely by badges todays E500 is about 25K cheaper than the 1994 E500. Though the old E500 was a purpose built throughbred, and probably the best E-Class ever made until now.

M

Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

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