Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

habitat1 · December 2002

A few points:

Historically, the E has targeted a different buyer than the 5-series. Although the lines have blurred a bit, the E still remains a bigger car, and IMO, targets more of the luxury buyer, recent engineering advances notwithstanding. The 5-series is a smaller car and IMO targets more of an enthusiast driver, recent luxury additions and advances notwithstanding.

On pricing, not only are the BMW MSRP's lower, but for the non "M" models, substantial European Delivery discounts are available. Mercedes pretty much dropped ED discounts as a viable way to save a few thousand dollars back in 2000. That makes the disparity of comparing Mercedes MSRP to what you can actually buy a BMW for even more significant. I bought a new 2000 540i 6-speed in late 1999 through ED for roughly $2k under US invoice and $7k under US MSRP ($51k). No comparable "deals" are readily available on any popular Mercedes models.

As for the possible price difference between an M5 (which I now own) and an E55, there is another explanation. The M5 is a logical extension to what many see as the 540i 6-speed. The AMG E55 tries to take Mercedes into a different direction than most E-class buyers are looking. I have a neighbor with an E55 who is looking to sell it and was given a laughable offer by his Mercedes dealership on a trade for a new E500. They acknowledge that it is a specialty car with a very limited market as a used car, since it's not what the vast majority of E-class buyers are looking for. On the other hand, I am constantly asked by my BMW (and nearby Porsche) dealer as to whether I want to trade or sell my M5. It represents a more logical extension of what many BMW 5-series buyers would aspire to and has a much broader appeal within those loyalists. As a former owner of a 300 SEL 6.3, I have great respect for AMG cars, but know they have very limited market appeal.

It is true that the price of a new E-class looks like a bargain compared to their relative prices 8-10 years ago. And if you are looking at the E320 4-matic Wagon, there is no better choice by anybody, IMO.

footie · December 2002

I still think that MB's great sales in October and November are what they stuffed onto dealer lots and not what got sold and registered.

Herb Chambers' on-the-lot inventory in Boston of E Class cars is up to 70 vehicles from 54 in mid-September. They are about 60% 320's and 40% 500's last time I looked. Foreign Motors West in Natick is hidden but a peek through the bushes this weekend indicated to me that there's PLENTY there too.

With 3.3K in dealer margin on the base 320 plus 3% holdback and 4K plus 3% on a base 500, these folks have LOTS of room to come down. Plus options are very high and full of margin too.

When these vehicles sit on the lots, they are stuck.

Do something bold. Go make an offer.

Figure out approximately what option and colors you would be happy with. Price them out, write out the invoice pricing for the different options. Figure out your 'out the door price' at invoice + taxes + title fees.

Call the local dealerships to tell what you are them you are looking for Exxx, color xxx or yyy and with the 1 and 2 package, but nothing else. You are flexible on interior color but not exterior. What do you have?

Go visit if they are close.

When you get to the dealership, avoid any discussion of trade or lease or cash. Act like it doesn't matter to you, you want to do whatever makes sense and that you usually check with your financial advisor at Private Bank Company name before you finalize a contract.

Go look at and drive both an E320 and E500 off the lot. If they only let you drive a demo, fine.

Ask if they have whatever model and options from your list in your colors. If so go look at it. Ask for a drive in that one if it is different enough in terms of wheels, tires, suspension.

If they hesitate tell them you know from your MB friends that wheels, tires and suspension make a big difference and insist. After all you are going to 1) give them a big pile of money 2) likely drive this thing for some time.

If you get a ride fine. If not go home.

Try to get the drive alone. When you get back tell the sales person, you were lucky but tracked down the finance advisor. He says you can do the deal cash with some stocks that are a bit underwater but will help taxes.

Tell him you've figured invoice to be about xx,xxx, plus $500 for him and taxes of y,yyy and $150 to do the title. You offer zz,zzz as an out-the-door-price. Yes or no?

Sales guys have a handful of ways to handle this: chuckle, go see the boss, 'negotiate'. Who knows what you will get.

If the answer isn't yes at that price in 5 minutes then leave. Mercedes will be making E's tomorrow and the dealership will have them in plenty of quantity.

So, when he says no, stand up, thank him and leave your cell phone number.

Tell him you are going to the Lexus and BMW store next and maybe to Infiniti.

Tell him him he can call you with a yes, but not with a counter offer. Don't call to see how I am doing, call if you can say yes.

Go shopping at BMW, Lexus and Infiniti while you wait.

As MB's quality is now only 'average' overall for the E, you hvae to 'WANT' an E bad to face up to the statistics of the trips back to the dealership you are likely to have to deal with anyway.

When he calls back you might be in another car you like that actually was designed to be defect free and hold up for a long time.

dkatlanta · December 2002

Stopping by a Mercedes dealer recently, I noticed a brochure for a window coating called V-Kool. It supposedly blocks mainly non-visible light that otherwise builds up heat in the passenger compartment. Here in Atlanta, I need all the help I can get keeping my E320's interior cool in the summer. Has anyone had experience with this product?

jmezz · December 2002

anyone offer help regarding 39 month , 12k yr,zero cap cost lease? got price of 538 with putting 6,000.00 as multiple security deposit which i get back at end of lease. sound good or maybe any better outh there?

ctic · December 2002

$538 for 39 months, 0 cap cost sounds like a steal. You're paying about $21K for a depreciation of a little over 3 years. In fact I think that's what C-class drivers are paying for their C-classes. The $6000 deposit sounds funny though - I've never heard of anyone paying a $6K deposit.

According to your post in the 5-series forum, your deal for the BMW525 is $547/month same terms and the E320 is a much more expensive car than the 525.

ctic · December 2002

The 2003 E320s have a lower base price than the 2002 E320s and is more car for less money - so you can say that prices have actually gone down. Same thing when the S-class changed to the new (current) model - new lower price for a better car.

Regarding footie's comments it is true that you can get a deal with the MB dealer. Just walk in with the attitude that you don't have to buy the car that day. I was in on a friend's purchase last week and the saleswoman was literally tugging on his coatsleeve to prevent him from leaving.

It also depends on a large part where you live. If you live in LA or the east coast where there are dealers galore they are much more willing to deal. And when the deal is down to a few hundred $ on a $50K+ car I also wonder on the benefits of trading the salesman's goodwill for the few hundred $.

r1_97 · December 2002

I generally agree w/ your post but question the value of salesman's goodwill. Once you buy the car you deal w/ the service dept. separate from the sales. Also, there's a high turnover in the sales dept. so you may never see your salesman.

ctic · December 2002

Let's go over to the salesmen forum and ask :-)

jmezz · December 2002

ctic, thanks for info. the deal i posted on the bmw was actually 447 not 547 per month. the 6,000.00 up front is a multiple security deposit which i get back at the end of the lease.bmw lets you put up 5,000.00 or actually 10 security deposits. this is common with bmw, mercedes and lexus (not allowed in ny, i'm in nj). it saves you roughly 50.00/mo in your monthly payment which is actually around 2,000 over the life of the loan. these days you can't make 2,000 on a 5,000 investment in 3 yrs. highly recommended if you have the cash.

microrepair · December 2002

staying on the good side of...

When I walked away from buying my Starmarked E because it had a couple of options I had no use for, the salesman called me the next day and offered to remove the options and drop the price 2K. That sealed the deal with no further negotiations. Six months later I decided I wanted to add a CD changer and talked to my salesman. First he pulled a used one out of the service area and looked it up to see if it would work on my 96. Nope, it was a fiber optic bus; the 96 & 97 still have the copper wire bus. So he gave me the phone number of the audio shop that does their $800 installations. The audio shop did it directly with me for $300. So my salesman saved me hundreds of dollars. He didn't have to do it, but he appreciated the fact that I didn't try to wring the last nickel out of him and it's a classy dealership where they cultivate repeat business.

And he has been there for over 5 years and I'm willing to bet he'll be there for the next 5-10 years. As is the salesman at the Buick dealership where we bought the LeSabre we traded on the MB. (Great salesman, horrible product.. At least the MB guy has a great product to sell.!)

silverbullet7 · December 2002

I took my 1998 E430 for servicing as a result of the illumination of the SRS warming light. The air bag off light located on the console also came on. The service manager communicated to me that the smart seat sensor was faulty and presented me with a $400.00 estimate to repair the sensor. I do not own the smart seat nor would I place one of my childern in the front seat with the smart seat. The feature provides me with no value. Can the sensor be disconnected without having the SRS warning light and air bag off light continually on.

msg510 · December 2002

To clark217, thanks for sharing your experience. However, the ASR light in my case will not go off even when I push that ASR button on the console. The dealer wanted me to buy an ECU unit which cost almost $1K but I want to make sure what that will do for me. So I want to knwo how critical the ASR function is and whether it should still function in my case.

bigrobnh · December 2002

Hey Folks,
Does anybody know when the new E's will be available with 4Matic?

Thanks,
BigRob.

Edsoto · December 2002

Left 1 week after I purchased my 2002 E 320.

He now works for BMW.

Things happen...

ED

tmorales · December 2002

Looking to replace my '97 E420 for an E500. MB dealers in Atlanta are notorious for not negotiating, but with the soft economy I wonder if anyone has gotten a good deal.

2ndmb · December 2002

I have found a 2001 E430 4 Matic with 1600 miles. That's right, one thousand six hundred in excellent shape for $41000. I don't have the background on this car yet, but according to my research, this car has a retail value of 45k or more. Anyone have a similar car, any feedback. Thanks

mark156 · December 2002

Tmorales.... a good friend of mine is trying to buy a 2003 E320. She said that she has quotes of $1,500 off in Jackson, Mississippi, and $1,500 off in Chicago, Illinois and both locations will add a telephone for no charge.

~mark

habitat1 · December 2002

The obvious question is what has a 2 year old car been doing, such that it only has 1,600 miles. Best case scenario, the car was properly stored by a traveling executive. Worst case scenario, the car was in the shop getting repaired after a wreck and it's not on anyone's records.

My neighbor who now owns an E55 had a 1999 E430 that he kept in his garage most of the time for 18+ months while he was on assignment in Europe. Traded the car for the 2001 E55 with only 4,500 miles on the E430. However, he did not get full value on the trade. The dealer valued it as an excellent condition 2-year old car, but did not give him any more in trade than if the car had 15-20k miles on the odometer.

Also, many believe - as do I - that it's better to drive a car with some frequency than have it sit idle for extensive periods of time. I think this is even truer for 4-matics, where there are additional moving parts that need exercise.

nedzel · December 2002

When we bought our benz, our salesman was someone we've known for a while. In fact, my wife new him before his first child was born. His second child graduates from college this year. He's been at that MB dealer for at least 7 years. Our service experience has been good so far, but I know if we have an issue that I can call on our salesman to help us out.

clark217 · December 2002

IMHO, ASR is invaluable if you live in ice or snow country in the winter or plan to travel in those locations. Otherwise, it's probably not essential.

clark217 · December 2002

Does the climate control LED have backlighting on the 1997 W210 models? I can't see anything in the climate control display at night in my E-420.

r1_97 · December 2002

I respect your opinion, but nevertheless feel that the post sale goodwill of a non-managerial salesman isn't worth much. I'm not saying that there is no benefit in a good relationship with the salesman but it shouldn't interfere with negotiating the best price available.

My understanding is that the salesman's discretion on pricing is limited and may vary between different dealerships. The commission may decrease depending on how much discount is offered from MSRP. There is an obvious conflict of interest between the buyer and salesman and negotiations must take this into account. However, minimum pricing is ultimately a management decision.

footie · December 2002

I know its a long way, but, hey maybe you can get a deal.

Take a look at the E500 inventory in Boston at
www.HerbChambers.com.

Look for E500W and E500.

They have 24 in inventory ranging in price from $51K to $61K.

With $4k of dealer profit plus 3% holdback ($1500 more). They have lots of room to deal.

You can ship it home for $750 or drive it back in two days, 1100 miles. Boston to Richmond and Richmond to Atlanta, both two easy 8 hour drives.

monakh · December 2002

When you pay around $70K for a loaded E500. I picked up a Silver with Ash with a pano roof, sport package, voice-activated phone (not installed yet), Comand II (coming next year) and parktronic etc. a month ago for about $2K off of the MSRP (in the DC Metro area). This IS a soft economy and there are plenty of choices. Make an offer--they won't refuse it.

msg510 · December 2002

Thanks.

a1gregg · December 2002

My 97 E-420 has Climate Control backlighting.

rayscar · December 2002

Hi monakh. I live in Northern VA and took delivery on my E500 on 11/2/02. My dealer would not budge from MSRP. Good for you. Guess I dind't negotiate well enough.

mbdriver · December 2002

Did you happen to buy your E500 from a dealer at then top of Tysons Corner?

silverbullet7 · December 2002

Ron, I have a 1998 E430 and there is back lighting in the climate control. The light failed in my vehicle. I entered the drive though service at my dealer and the technician utilized two tools that fit in the lower slots. He pulled out the unit and replaced the bulb. It took him 20 seconds, I actual counted (Finance Geek). The service manager did not charge me.

monakh · December 2002

Yeah, that dealer in Tysons ain't much of a team player. I picked up mine in Alexandria. Actually, I think they even had more room to negotiate, but between the $1 split seats and the $1625 COMAND system, I felt like I was pushing it. At that kind of price, the money won't break the bank, but it is nice to know that you have not been had.

Can't wait for the Voice-Activation and the Navi to come in...I love this car. It is pure refinement in motion.

r1_97 · December 2002

2003 - E320/500 owners: How would you rate the brakes on your car in normal day to day driving? Edmonds says they're "touchy." I'm thinking of trading my '98 in for on '03 had have some concern and would like some unbiased feedback.

Thanks

stvir · December 2002

The brakes take some getting used to because of the computerized control (soft stop). The braking system modulates the pressure for you as you come to a stop. But, having said that, it is no different from any other new car: you can get used to it. As far as effectiveness, all I can say is it works as expected in all kinds of situations ... panic or non-panic stopping and everything in between. ABS and Brake Assist are on call whenever you need them.

microrepair · December 2002

silverbullet7;

Where is this dealer? Is this a no appointment "drive up and get the little things fixed fast" type of arrangement? This sounds like a great idea that should be at every MB dealership..

silverbullet7 · December 2002

Microrepair, the dealer is Weber Motors Located in Edmonton, Alberta. They provide very good service and yes, they also provide drive through service. When I took my car in for the SRS warning light issue, they put it through a diagnostic test as a drive through. Turned out that it was a "Macrorepair" that required a scheduled appointment. They will service opportunities that are between 0.2 and 0.5 such as changing bulbs and quick diagnostics with no appointment required. I thought I read a document stating that MB was considering this system throughout their dealer network, may it was only for the new or refurbished dealers.

jim256 · December 2002

It must be the way I drive, but I cannot detect any particular touchiness, disconnect, or unusual attributes of the Sensotronic brakes. I understand it has soft stop, but I've always tried to accomplish that myself (chauffeur stop, it used to be called) and I can still stop as I normally have. The brakes are great when you need to stop quickly--the rapid "accelerator off" pre-positioning of the calipers gives you immediate braking in the few times (1700 miles) I have needed it. I have not triggered ABS but I understand there is no pulsation felt in the pedal because of the electronic link--another plus. I expect if I think enough about "these are electronic brakes" I may detect a difference, but it would take some work. This is my third recent MB: '98 E320, '01 C320, '03 E320, and it's only better.

kcla · December 2002

I just place an E320 deposit with E2, Leather and metallic color. $2500 bellow MSRP. The price is gradually going down.

jdjimenez · December 2002

I think I've finally convinced my wife to drive an E-320. She drives the family car the most so it has to be her choice. Looking at a 2003 E-320 with the E-2 package.

Can anyone suggest options that they really like and any dealer or salesperson suggestions in the Los Angeles, California area would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
James

crazymaler · December 2002

I'm in the market for an E500 and would like to know how much off MSRP you guys have been able to purchase yours for. The dealers in Los Angeles seem to have plenty in stock, though not too many with the sport package which is a must have for me.

Also, does anyone know of a good Mercedes dealer in the greater LA area?

Thanks for your help!

clark217 · December 2002

Thanks a1gregg and silverbullet7 for your info. I'm now looking to see if I can find the tool to remove the climate control unit so I can replace the bulb (I'm sure my dealer will not goodwill it). I will report on what I find.

Clark217

wniel · December 2002

I have a dealer in Orange County, Mercedes Benz of Laguna Niguel that I have been dealing with for several years and they tend to be very aggressive in making deals as they are the fastest growing dealer in the country. I have a specific sales person that I use and have introduced him to several other people who have bought through him. In Fact one person that I met on this list a couple of years ago flew down from the Bay area to pick up his new E430. If you want more info, e-mail me direct.
Wally

r1_97 · December 2002

I've been told that almost all new E's come with both the E1 and E2 packages and that if you want do delete either, you'll need to special order.

There's lot of dealers in the LA and surrounding area. Make some internet inquiries first and then compare prices in person. Walk away from any arrogant and "MSRP only" reps. You should be able to get $1,500+ off MSRP.

jgravel · December 2002

I'm looking for the opinion of the MB pro's on this board.

I keep reading here that pricing is becoming more elastic as inventories of the E class continue to grow. I'm waiting for the E sedans to offer 4 matic before I buy my first MB. I'm being told this will be sometime in the spring or early summer.

Do you think MB will delay the 4 matic intro if inventories stay high? Will dealers be willing to negotiate pricing on the 4 matic based on your past experience.

I don't mind waiting a few extra months for the AWD (car is for my wife) but I don't want to wait indefinitely then get screwed on pricing to boot.

Thx -Jay

rayscar · December 2002

Yes that's right. I got it in Tyson's

rayscar · December 2002

I've had no problem adjusting to the brakes after the first 2-3 tries. Actually notice little difference from other cars i've driven.

rayscar · December 2002

If you have kids, they will love the pano roof with glass above the back seat. I love it too. In fact I'd order it even if you don't have kids. The HK sound system is a must IMO. I also love the bi-xenon headlights. They are VERY bright. Hope this helps and good luck. The new E is a wonderful car IMHO.

Kirstie_H · December 2002

A journalist with a major daily newspaper is looking to talk with people who bought entry-luxury cars having owned more-expensive luxury cars (e.g. traded 5-series for 3-series).
If you have a story to share, please send your daytime contact information to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Friday, December 20, 2002. Please be sure to include the vehicle model names and model years. Thanks for your consideration!

mbdriver · December 2002

Just thought I'd mention that I live about a mile from Tysons, and I bought my 2000 E320 from EuroMotors in Bethesda, about 7 miles away (I have COMAND). Sales experience was extremely professional, and the service has been equally excellent. Also, they now have a loaner fleet consisting ONLY of Mercedes.

sdjumin · December 2002

Just wondering if anyone has an update on the "rumor" that MB is going to extend the warranty to 10 years for 1998 and 1999 models. Will this warranty cover bumper to bumper or only a specific possible engine problem? Thanks in advance.

joeadp · December 2002

A letter was sent out covering the engine for sludge damage for I believe 10 years or 150,000 miles.

This came from a settlement in a class action suit regarding FSS.

aaragam · December 2002

I am posting this as the dealer experience forum hasn't been quite active.

Would anybody recommend a MB dealer around Philadelphia.. R & S Imports, Keenan, Brandywine, etc...

Appreciate your input....

Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

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