Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

monakh · January 2003

Also, for those who have ever wondered if the Mercedes V60s can be swapped for other v60s. I think the answer is no. I tried that yesterday with a stock AT&T phone in my cradle, and I got a message from my system telling me that the phone is off (even though it was on). It seems like the Mercedes phone has some kind of a software link with the rest of the system allowing it to operate freely. I would like to test a stock CDMA v60 (as I have Verizon service)--although that really should not matter--since the equipment to operate all v60s is the same, only the phones are different. That's what I have been told anyway...

omasterq · January 2003

any experience with mechanical breakdown insurance from geico for 2003 e320? i purchased it with my coverage and the cost is additional $55 a year with $250 deductible. the coverage good for up to 7 years/100,000 miles assuming i pay the $55 yearly premium starting from year one. the coverage detail is quite good as far as i can tell and i can have the dealer or any shop to perform the repairs if needed. if i were to get the years 5-6-7 extended warranty from my dealer the quote was $2,300 before negoiation with no deductible. seems still a good deal for ($55 * 7 = $385) + $250 deductibles every time i use it comparing with $2,300. i don't think i need to use it for the first 4 years assuming MB basic warranty would cover all mechanical issues but i could if needed.

thoughts?

habitat1 · January 2003

I recently went with my neighbor to Mercedes sponsored event to test drive an E500. We also noticed that the tires were "H" rated. He currently drives a 2000 E55 and I drive a 2002 M5, so we were both a little surprised. We thought it might be an anomoly on the test car, but apparantly not.

My guess is that Mercedes has been receiving a lot of complaints about tire/road noise and they went with a brand that was quieter, traction and performance be damned. Also, let's face it, the E500 "sport" isn't really a sport sedan. It's a luxury sedan with a few visual ad-ons. I doubt that most E500 buyers would even notice the difference between the H and W rated tires in their daily driving. Coming out of an E55, my friend would.

I agree with jb_shin that the blow out explanation is BS. If anything, H rated tires of this size and profile are going to be more prone to sidewall stress and edge wear, since Z and W rated tires have much more sidewall stiffness. And be aware that, even for a luxury oriented sedan, H rated tires are at the very bottom of the scale in terms of performance. If it were me, I'd replace them with a real tire as soon as they show moderate signs of wear. My bet is that Mercedes will switch to a different tire before the year is out. They certainly can't be equiping their German (i.e. Autobahn) models so frugally.

bargamon · January 2003

I agree, My e-430 has no suspension specs different than the 320, but they put the low profile 17 wheels and tires. What happens is the tires are so good, the suspension feels soft, thus the car leans. I recall on this board some lowerd the car with tighter springs. If I wanted a harder ride, that is an option. I'd be glad to give up some gripping qualities for a tire that lasts longer than 15-20k and more quiet. Tire rack reviews are interesting. Some of the michelens coast almost 200 pertire and the reviews are almost the same as 100 dollar Sumitomos. Funny that people who own 5 year old saturns put 200 tires on. Hey, its one of the best things to do to improve a ride. On other side we have 50k cars putting 100 dollar tires on tired of spending the big bucks and getting similar results. I have been down both roads and am still not sure what to do.

ray_h71 · January 2003

"...What happens is the tires are so good, the suspension feels soft, thus the car leans..."

Say what, bargamon? How the suspension "feels" has nothing to do with body lean. What's happening is you're driving more aggressively with your upgraded tires, and your car has inadequate sway bar rates to handle the increased cornering G's. So it heels over like the Bismark hard-to-port at flank speed trying desperately to avoid the torpedo that locked her rudder gear. You might be able to find uprated aftermarket front and rear sway bars. These would help without materially affecting overall ride quality adversely. Variable-rate springs could be helpful, too, but in either case you need to consult with a competent suspension guy familiar with Mercedes suspension pieces and setup. One thing you won't do, though, is turn a Mercedes-Benz E class into a BMW 5xx series.

2ndmb · January 2003

You can change the shocks to Bilstein HD and it will improve handling significantly. Keep in mind, the Mercedes ride will change and become much more firm. Ray is right, you won't turn it into a 5 series BMW. I made that mistake on a 2000 E and tried to make the car into something it wasn't designed to be and it was an expensive experiment. I'm going to get a new e class with the sport pkg that has an adjustable air suspension, that is the best of both worlds in my opinion.

bargamon · January 2003

I may just go with a softer and quieter tire. I don't want to put any money into firming up the suspension. If I want a M3, I get one, but for now I want to keep it smooth.

Thanks for your imput, well defined.

monakh · January 2003

I would agree that the Sports Package E500 is no M5, heck it is no 540. However, I think the Merc owners know and understand the difference. Certainly, if I wanted an M5, I would have gone for it. Although, the fact that the 5-series is due for a re-design had a lot to do with my own car-purchase decision. We likely won't see the next-gen M5 for at least a couple of years.

Anyway, I think the E, while being fairly smooth on the road, has way too much interior noise for a typical car in this class. Perhaps it is my Sport Package with those 'Hi-Performance H-Rated' tires? Jokes set aside, I feel it is too loud, and as soon as I hit 100Mph, which I often do here in the DC area, I feel the car becomes very loud and also notice a slight wobble in the back. It may all be my imagination. I would love to have other opinions on this.

Anyway, I want to replace my tires with something more performance-oriented, does anyone have any suggestions on W or Z-rated tires that are up to task?

ekkoh99 · January 2003

for all you gas guzzling morons, the E class will arrive in a CDI diesel next year.

Im buying one.

habitat1 · January 2003

Tell me more. Link to info? Timing of arrival. Is next year 2004 Model Year (possibly arriving in September /October?

monakh · January 2003

Love the courtesy. Yeah, we are morons

And damn proud of it too. Last time I looked, it was a free land.

rbrenton88 · January 2003

I recently replaced the Goodyears with Sumitomo HTR+.
Ahhhh, the peace and quiet. Check them out on tirerack. They do carry the right size.

jfz219 · January 2003

Gas guzzling? The comment is neither accurate nor courteous. My 2000 E320 averages 23 mpg city and 31 on the highway. I drive it more aggressively than my previous 240D and 4 cylinder Camry and it consistently exceeds these cars in fuel economy.

The next generation of direct injection gas engines should improve power and mileage by 10-15%. With that performance I question the appeal of the CDI options in the US market.

cduong · January 2003

The Alpine CD player in my E320 suddenly went dead. Stereo is still working. What could be wrong? Your opinion is greatly appreciate. Thanks

hgp · February 2003

Folks,

I am considering purchasing a used E430 and have been looking at 99 an 00 models. Do you have any advice for those of you who own these cars? I test drove a 99 E430 Sport today and it was incredible. I read on Edmunds that the 99 has a better mid-term reliability rating than the 00. What have been your experiences and what is you advice for buying a used E430.

TIA, hgp

tuss · February 2003

there was an "update" in the shape from 1999 to 2000---slightly lower hood, better looking side panels, new rims I think, and some other safety issues too I believe---so I'd go with the 2000 model.

linard · February 2003

I would also go for the 2000 as they updated the interior with a number of refinements, different texture for the dashboard/door panel materials, steering controls for the stereo, a trip computer, programmable preferences for different drivers, etc. The exterior is different with the inclusion of the turn signal led lights in the rear view mirrors, more integrated bumper covers, and the prettier tail lights. In addition, tuss is correct, the 2000 E class crashed much better than the 96-99 models,

http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/97005.htm
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/00027.htm

prospective1 · February 2003

My wife and I (both in our late 20's) are considering purchasing a 2000 E320. We are looking for a stylish car within our price range (30 to 35k) that will be a great car for years to come. We want a car and that will be reliable, safe, luxurious, and timeless.

I am hoping that I can get people to weigh in on their opinions of the 2000 E320 (if applicable).

Thanks in advance

2ndmb · February 2003

I had a 2000 E320 and it was an excellent car. Smooth ride, comfortable seats amd very quiet interior. Just don't think you are getting a sports sedan, because it isn't. It won't handle the curves without lots of body role, or lets say not like a BMW 5 series. Don't get me wrong, it handled well, but set your expectations right. Also make sure you get one from a MB dealer with a warranty. They aren't cheap to repair. Good luck on your purchase.

habitat1 · February 2003

I agree with 2ndmb. As long as you aren't looking for a sports sedan - and you don't list that as a priority - a low milage 2000+ E320 is a great car.

In addition, I am surprised by how much 2000-2002 E's have dropped in price over the last few months, per the Washington Post. It appears that under $30k for a 2000 E320 is very possible. Even saw a low milage 2001 "S"430 advertised for $39k this weekend. I have been considering replacing our SUV with a 2003 E320 Wagon. But given the drop in used prices, a nice 2000/2001 may make sense.

Shop hard, it appears to be a buyer's market.

jb_shin · February 2003

I have been thinking of used Landcruiser or XC90 for my wife when we return home from Germany next year. However, I was surprised how much price has dropped on the E320s and wagons. Now it looks like we will be looking at a 4-matic wagon, probably one of the certified ones from 2000+

clark217 · February 2003

I purchased the key tools for the climate control and radio from Samstagsales.com. I couldn't find the part number again. Hope this helps. BTW, my small red lights on the climate control were working fine, I just didn't have any backlighting at light. It sounds like you may have a different problem with your climate control.

mbros2k · February 2003

Can anyone tell me how to get the remote key to work again? Can it be re-programmed at home? Yes, the remote batteries were replace, but to no avail. Thanks.

joeadp · February 2003

I own 3 cars and the E320 is my keeper.
Love the ride, power, and luxury look and feel of materials. Also practical with 3 kids and I consider it a safe car with all the electronic gadets.

If I had to pick one of my vehicles it would be the 320. My other 2 vehicles are an SUV and Porsche.

footie · February 2003

MB's are relatively expensive to keep up, both in time and money.

Make sure that you have nearby dealer that you can get very good references on. See if you can find out where the car was serviced and check for any unusual service events.

As my sister in Savannah says "I got the money honey, but not the time, to own a Mercedes".

mbdriver · February 2003

I bought my 2000 E320 in April 2000 and love the car. Because I don't drive too aggressively, I believe the car satisfies ALL my needs. My neighbor and close friend has a 2001 BMW 530I, and he loves it -- but he is almost a maniac behind the wheel!

I concur with the folks who recommend getting a used one with as much warranty as possible. I bought the MB extended warrant that takes the original 4-year/50,000 mile warranty to 8 years/100,000 miles. It's transferable, so if you can find one like that, by all means pay the extra freight and get it. footie is correct -- a Mercedes can be expensive to maintain and repair! Start with Starmark cars from dealers.

merckx · February 2003

In this month's Car&Driver,they rate rear seat room of the E320 last among its competition. In the past model,the rear was always deemed very roomy,espically for the car's small exterior. Has anyone directly compared (owned)both? The brochure lists front headroom as,I believe, .4" less. Does anyone notice this difference?
I really lioke a roomy back seat in my cars. That's what killed a BMW 525i for me.

jb_shin · February 2003

While I do not own either cars, I did test drive the older model and sat inside the new one for comparison. I was comparing the old one to the 5-series, and the back seats in the older E was much roomier. Then, earlier this year, when the new E was launched in Germany, I sat in the back again. Despite the numbers being bigger, I felt the new one was more cramped and tighter. Perhaps it was just the way I felt and the way the seats were angled, but the old one seemed somehow roomier. Then again, I spent 2 days in the old one (and countless taxi rides) and only 30 minutes or so in the new E.

merckx · February 2003

I thought the back seat in the old one was amazing. The car was really very trim,easy to park,but the back still managed to be very comfortable. And I'm not sure that is true for the new one.

houstonmerc · February 2003

While I love my 2000 E320, I have to say at the moment I am ashamed to own a German car based on the ongoing attacks on US positions by the German government. I've never been big on "buy American" where the foreign product was superior, but I've got to say I am considering selling my car and buying a Jaguar or some other car built either in the US or in a country which is a friend of the US. Ditto other German and French products.

2ndmb · February 2003

I can understand your patriotic spirit but you're thinking too much. You are buying a product made by craftsman in Germany, not the government. Certainly over the years Americans have overlooked the Pearl Harbor attacks and buy lots of Honda's, Toyota's, etc...This is a snapshot in time and will pass. I wanted to support my fellow Americans 3 years ago and bought a Chrysler Van for the wife, gee what a P.O.S. that has been. By what you like, that's the best part of being an American, freedom of choice. Just my humble opinion.

mark156 · February 2003

Stedon, the last time I used my spare (full size) was way back in 1981 on an Oldsmobile. Honestly, why carry the extra weight of a full size spare that will only take up more room. Spares are rarely used? I like my small donut in my 2000 E430 Sport just fine!

Mark

beepa · February 2003

Well "New" owner, not new car. I just purchased a 1999 Mercedes-Benz E320 4MATIC AWD Sedan w/26K. This was a HUGE decision, mainly because for the last 20 yrs. or so I've owned trucks, vans or an SUV (all domestic). My wife's past few cars have been Volvo's, Audi's and presently, a 98 BMW 528. After getting over the hump of not buying another truck, I test drove Saab, Acura, Lexus and lastly, the E320. It was love at first drive! I told my wife, if I'm going into a car, this is it! I'm purchasing a 5yr/100000mi extended warranty because of the stories I've heard, with regards to costs for repairs and I'm not wealthy. The car is fully loaded, even has Satellite Navigation. I'm picking it up tomorrow and will post impressions and/or issues later.
Nice to be aboard.......I hope!

footie · February 2003

If I remember right, there was a lot of upgrades and change in the 320 in 2000 that you might want to look at.

You shouldn't have paid more than the very low 20's for a 1999 320. Navigation technology moves very quickly and like cell phones is behind the curve very quickly. You can tell that by looking at any of the museum quality built-in phones in a 95 or 96 MB.

Make sure the car has service records and that you are ok with the dealer. Make sure that the warranty is Starmark from Mercedes and goes for 5 years from NOW and up to 100K from now.

jean7of9 · February 2003

Welcome to this Board and congratulations for the new car. I am also driving a 99 E320 4matic since fall 1998. It still drives like the first day and I'm never bored with it. Enjoy your ride.

stedon · February 2003

I got delivery of my new E about two weeks ago and basically love the car. Took me just a few days to cut a corner to close and damage the rear tire. Fortunately it's a Continental so hopefully I'll find one. (As an aside, does anyone know if the Continental has a one year road hazard guaranty?). The reason I am posting, however, is to express my anger and incredible disgust that I bought this over priced car with A TEMPORARY SPARE. WHAT KIND OF RIDICULOUSNESS IS THAT? I haven't had a temporary spare since my daughter's mid 80's Celica. I have a full size spare on the my wife's 2001 C320 and have had full size spares on the BMW's and Lexus I've owned. Have they no shame? Raise the price and put a full size spare in. Just venting. Thanks for listening. (It does take the bloom off the rose---where else did they skimp?)

beepa · February 2003

And I'm sure 2001 is better than a 2000 and a 2002 is better than....well you get the picture. You seem to quite the authority footie. However, if your 'price quotes' are true, I'd like to know where you got them. I've checked &, unless it's a high mileage vehicle, the price I paid was well within line of the norm. And yes, I trust the dealer explicitly. Bought our last 4 vehicles from him.
Thank you jean7of9 for the welcome.

onlyagirl · February 2003

Last Oct my 2000 E320(had about 38k miles at the time) started having an awful rattle.....almost sounded like a diesel. I took it to a dealer and was told the catalytic convertor had to be replaced...under warranty so no problem.....well, here it is 4 months later and the same rattle is back....I looked at the service invoice and saw that the laft catalytic convertor had been replaced...so could this be the right one? I didn't know there were 2....haven't been to the dealer yet to have this checked on but I'm wondering if anyone else has had this problem......I only have about 10k miles left on my warranty and I am very scared of problems like this happening when I will have to pay for them...

Also....while it was at the dealer in Oct....it was discovered during a routine inspection that the dashboard was cracked.....I hadn't noticed it....the crack was on the passenger side right above and going into the groove for the passenger airbag..very tiny ....I kinda thought the tech must have known what to look for or else he was just lucky...or maybe it's just an example of MB taking extra care their customers...I was wondering if anyone else had had a dashboard replaced due to a crack similar to this?

Thanks,
Bobbie

mtrauman · February 2003

I had a 1998 E320 4-Matic which I sold in late 2000 (purchased a 2001 S500). I did have a crack in the dashboard at the passenger side airbag area on the E320. From my understanding, this has been a common problem on the 1996-2002 E class cars.

finadv · February 2003

Congrats on the "new" car. I drive a '98 E320 4Matic and its awesome. Pay no attention to footie. He's also been spotted on the Corolla board bashing new Toyota's. Hmmm.

footie · February 2003

Take a look at msg #4516 in this forum. Useful info on the number and kind of changes from 99 to 2000 - 2001.

I just use prices in Boston Globe, ebay, etc. for car's actual value. What you pay for is your choice.

Remember invoice - holdback (2-3%) on a new MB is what your new MB is worth the instant you take title, because the dealer isn't going to buy it back for more than he can buy it from MB for right away.

Dealer trade prices and auction prices tend to reflect this offset from new pricing throughout the first 5 - 6 years of a car's life.

So if a dealer can go pick up a 1999 320 coming off of a 4 year lease for $19 - 20K or less, that's what the car is worth. What you pay that's higher than that is your personal decision.

Recent trades on ebay for example:

Item # 2402654886 a 1998 E-320. at $18,700 the reserve is met and the car will sell today.

Speaking of high mileage, there's a 1999 320 with 104K on it (just getting broken in as they'd say) on ebay now. The current price is $14,200 at no reserve.

There's a 1999 AWD 320 with 65K with a buy it now price of $23,900 with Bose CD rear shade. see
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- - - =2402423413 ...

BTW..I love Toyota's despite what findav says. Toyota has the best manufacturing process on the planet. But there's a major issue with Corollas and Matrix's regarding sulfur smells in the cars and I have been active in posting there. to encourage people to chase Toyota for resolution. If Mercedes stank like swamp gas you might feel similarly motivated.

So there!

Never any offense intended here or there. Just the facts.

onlyagirl · February 2003

thanks for your reply mtrauman....I thought maybe it had been a problem for the technician to have found it.....I'm glad to know they were looking for it...I never would have seen it.....after the dash was replaced however the ashtray door and the other storage door won't close.....but that will be taken care when I get the catalytic converter repaired again.....

finadv · February 2003

#302 of 330 Toyota quality going down fast by footie Jan 20, 2003 (12:10 pm)

I think that there's a lot of evidence that Toyota 'quality' is going down very fast across their product line.

Wait until they start building the new Lexus RX330 in Canada and it gets hammered by problems.

The best Toyota's to buy aren't new ones.

bgetahun · February 2003

I was just about to pick up a 2003 e500 and the dealer just warned me that they just received a communications from the factory that the retrofitting that they were going to do on the nave in april is been put on hold indefinitely. Has anyone heard anything about this or is the dealer trying to sell me out of the nav. I was supposed to pay 1600 up front and have it installed later. Love to hear from anyone with facts.

footie · February 2003

Thanks, Findav

I do love'em but still think that they are letting their quality slide across the board. I still root for them to, but I also encourage all owners to stay in their faces about QA issues.

I talk with one of my sales manager friends at New England's largest Toyota franchise as another benchmark. His take is that the problem level has risen significantly since 1999. Seeing the Camry and Corolla lose or drop places in the JDPower surveys is also a confirmation.

They can get away with lower quality now than it took to penetrate the market here. Toyota fans like me need to stay on them to keep the benchmark high.

They have a significant supplier education problem here in the U.S. that takes a long time to get up to speed. That's why they have special center in Kentucky to teach them the 'way'. The transition to increasingly high % of domestic content takes its toll.

The Corollas and Matrix coming out of Canada are good but have had nagging 'little problems' that Toyota owners aren't used to. The new Lexus RX330 will be a significant challenge.

pat · February 2003

Um, the Toyota conversations are thataway --->

:-)

beepa · February 2003

Believe me, it takes a LOT more than that to offend me. I did check out e-bay (why anyone would make a purchase like that on the Internet is beyond me --- & I own a computer store!) but the ones I saw were of "high mileage" 75k +, mine has 26k. Be that as it may, I love my new Benz --- so far and am satisfied with the price & dealer. On another note, I happen to have NAV in mine (love it!) and it takes the spot in the center console where the ashtray normally is. I don't smoke but I do use the lighter for my radar detector and cell phone charger (I'm not using the one that came with the car). Does anyone know if there is a retro fit for a power source adapter????

joeadp · February 2003

WSJ article on a Dentist who purchased a car for over 75K and lost everything.

The scam put the money in a trust account while the transaction closes.

The trust account was owned by the thief.

Lesson no money till you pick up the merchandise.
Ebay also offers a holding account until the deal closes.

I guess my point to Footie if it sounds to good to be true it probably is. You get what you pay for.

tuss · February 2003

could you post the wsj article, or the link to it on this site . . .I tried to look at it but couldn't find it.

jb_shin · February 2003

That was a dentist who was purchasing a 55K M5, which retails for 75k+. He sent money to 10 different accounts upon request, and did not pay attention to a number of signs that may have indicated problem. For one thing, it would have cost him 55k just to Federalize German spec car to OBDII. Grey import for a 96+ model year is just not worth the effort, and you will spend more money.

Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

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