Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Both cars have been great, I have owned other Benzes and BMW's in the past. This car is the best of the bunch. Even if you have a problem, it will be covered for the first 50,000 miles and most Benz dealers are very reponsive if they know that you will continue to be a customer in the future.
Good luck with your decision.
But here is my gripe-in the form of an anecdote:
One of my car's problems necessitated my driving the car with the chief technician around the block so to speak. During the drive we talked a lot about MB reliability problems and he related the following. He went to an MB meeting in Stuttgart during which they discussed why Americans are complaining so much about MB reliability problems. The Germans felt that as long as their cars offered such great warranties and maint. programs for such long time periods,
there should be no reason to complain, as it is all "covered." The tech replied that Americans are among the busiest people on the planet and as such can't tolerate repeated trips to the dealer even if the service is covered and the loaner is available The Germans had a tough time understanding this (with their 30 hr work weeks and 6 weeks of vacation yearly). There is the rub, IMHO.
BTW, when you have your car serviced, do they get it right the first time?
Jawdoc: I think that until the US buyers start speaking their opinios through their wallets, the folks in Germany will continue to "not get it." I guess time is not money in Germany...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
This year in late June I had a repeat of the a/c fan -- my dealer offered an appointment about 2 weeks later, or I could drop off the car and have my wife take me home in her car, or I could get there at 7:30 and wait. Arriving at 10 to avoid the madhouse of many Benzes in for service was NOT an option -- no guarantee as to how long I would have to wait.
I switched dealers, from EuroMotors in Bethesda, MD, to HBL in Virginia. Got an immediate appointment, no wait to get to see my service advisor, super service from Enterprise loaners. My new maintenance home is now HBL.
Also, in July we sold my wife's MB 300D (mint condition, 98,000 miles) and bought a new BMW 530i for 10K less than a new E320. Superb car -- no problems so far, drives like a dream! My wife now drives the MB and it drives and handles much like her '77! But with far more power.
We now love both cars, and have not had any further problems.
I have had really good luck with my current Mercedes (2000 E430 sport and my 2002 ML500), more so with the E-class. I've had a few small issues with the ML but nothing big. My 1991 560SEL was great until it hit about 55,000 miles. I replaced everything after that. After $8K of repairs over 3 years and 82,000 miles, I knew it was time to cut it from the herd. But, it was a beautiful car!
Mark156
Other than that, I love my E500. I also have a 2001 BMW convertible which drives great and has been very reliable. Both of these cars have required very little service but the dealer has gotten it right the first time.
That's a lot of money to pay for a hood ornament that increasingly marks the driver as not particularly savvy, hip, intelligent, etc.--the exact reverse of the way most MB owners want to present themselves--but marks him/her as needing that validation. MBUSA will have a big problem on their hands if this trend continues and the owners migrate.
Anyway good luck whatever you drive. Personally I don't really care what you drive but am touched that you feel so passionately about what I SHOULD be driving. I'm buying my 4th MB in the past 10 years this fall. See ya.
P.S. My previous cars have included threee previous Benz's and one Volvo.
You posed an interesting question. The first car that came to my mind was the G35, which I thought was going to be smaller than the E all around but bettered it inside on a number of key measures.
Per Edmunds compare vehicles function, Infiniti G35 sedan has better interior headroom front and rear than the E, though the E hip room is better. The E is a bigger car outside, though standard wheels on the G35 are 17". The G35 performance is better than the E320, as is the reliability and initial quality. The E has about 1 cu foot more trunk space per the MB and Infiniti web site.
All in all, the G35 is pretty close to meeting your requirements.
The price difference is easily in the 20K range.
Here are the keys.
I recognize aesthetics are subjective, but the G35 sedan and M45 score pretty low on my scale. Apparantly, the M45 scores pretty low on everyones scale. Infiniti is practically giving them away.
When I most recently sat in a new E, the plastic storage drawer under the passenger seat was either broken or off track - so that didn't ring my 'build quality' chime.
Also, it seemed to have a 'chrome' door sill guard that looked just like something out of JCWhitney, but it seems that Mercedes has turned on the glitz these days to look luxurious.
The Infiniti too has a metallic look and feel which I suppose is to be associated with the sport image. I kinda like the gated shifter look in the Infinit over the MB's wooden Monk in leather look. It seems like to me that MB replaced expensive gates with a piece of cowhide.
Regarding the 5 and A6, I was a passenger in both in the last two weeks. Neither impressed me with luxuriously appointed interiors. The BMW in particular has a lot of low luster dashboard plastic that collects dust.
All personal opinion and not really relevant to Microrepair's key points about reliability, performance and roominess.
G35? Nope, thumbs down on that one..
Any other nominations?
G35 has a 2.5 inch taller space...and much better legroom.
Interior
G35
E-Class
Front Headroom
40.1 in.
37.6 in.
Rear Headroom
37.9 in.
37.2 in.
Front Shoulder Room
56.4 in.
56.3 in.
Rear Shoulder Room
55.5 in.
57.1 in.
Front Hip Room
52.2 in.
54.9 in.
Rear Hip Room
54.1 in.
55.9 in.
Front Leg Room
43.6 in.
41.3 in.
Rear Leg Room
33.6 in.
36.1 in.
And the E appears quite a bit larger than the G in the front as well - same shoulder room but the E has nearly 3" more front hip room. Seems like the shape of the interior on one or the other must be odd.
The only two measurements that the G is bigger than the E on is front head room and front leg room, both of which I have found the Edmunds measurements often to be misrepresentative. Front head room for the E is including a sunroof since virtually all have it, on the G35 is not since it is optional. I suspect this to be the case because a friend who is 6'4" owns an E430 that fits him very well was out measuring other cars as a possible replacement. He found the E class to have more interior and head room than the M45. I assume the M45 doesn't have less headroom than the G35. He also pointed out that, even on the E, he does not need to put the seat all the way back. Front leg room is measured with the seat all the way back. An extra 2" of seat travel may be great for the 6'6" and above set, but not most others.
The G also has better shoulder room than the E, where the E does win on the "hip" room accomodations. So if you are tall and broad shouldered the G might fit better, while if you are no proportioned that way, perhaps the E is a better sit.
You are right. The E has more rear leg room. The E is 4+ inches longer than the G and 2.5" of that is in the back seat.
The moonroof issue needs a little more investigation. I noticed there's no spec differentiator on the Infiniti site, so I'll track this down.
I just saw an episode of American Motorcycle on Discovery where Jesse James ( the builder and descendant of the real Jesse) built a motorcycle for Shaq O'Neal. Shaq drove up in a highly modified S-class. I couldn't believe he fit in it because I have a problem with the headroom in the S-class. But the drivers seat is up against the rear seat and for Shaq to see out the driver's side window, he must lean forward about 6 inches. In his normal seating position, he is looking out the rear passenger window. The steering wheel is about 8 inches forward of his kneecaps. And I'm sure the seat itself has been modified to sit directly on the floor. He has turned the 5 passenger S-class into a 2 passenger..!
If you're under 6 foot tall, count your blessings and your lack of head bashings from low doorways, light fixtures, and car door openings. I can't count the number of times I wished I were 3 inches shorter..!!
I owned an MG1100 back in the 70's that had tons of room and yet when I tried a Jag XJ6 3 years ago I could only get my right arm, right buttock, and right leg into the drivers side.! And it is TWICE the size of the MG1100 (new version is the BMW Mini). Not all cars are created equal.!! Or measured equally either.. My E-class is about the same size as the XJ6 yet I fit fine in the E-class. With a sunroof..!!!
Oh yeah, and I DO care about safety, aesthetics, performance, etc. which is why I ended up with the E-class, not the Pontiac Aztec..
The ten year thing probably doesn't mean much to me; I figure mine will have 150K about 1 year from now and I will have had it just 6 years. (I bought it exactly 2 years old with 38K on it.) It will be time for something else and since I'm now retired I'm not sure I'll be able to afford another E-class. So a G35 type of car is very appealing and if it runs well for 6-7 years I'll be happy. BUT, it has to be a good driver, as you suggest.
Now, if I were to hit the lottery, I'd be in an E55 before a week was up and my own Gulfstream with pilot for long distance trips..!!! And an SL55 or 911 Turbo waiting for me at my vacation villa!!
First, regarding the Infiniti. A few months ago, I went car shopping with my niece who wanted to take me along for a second opinion of the G35 coupe, 330ci and a few other alternatives. She ended up with the 330ci, without any prodding from me, but simply because it was better executed than the G35 coupe. Better from both a precise handling and performance standpoint; much better from an interior aesthetics standpoint. The G35 sedan, in my opinion, is a step below the G35 coupe in overall design and interior quality. To compare it to the E class, when the G35 coupe loses in most comparisons to the 3 series is more than a stretch, it's absurd. The M45 and Q45 aren't even stealing sales from Mercedes (or anybody else for that matter). Would I take a G35 over a Buick - I mean Toyota - Avalon? Probably. But over an E? In Infiniti's dreams.
That said, I have to take some issue with the claim that with the E-class, "You have status, elegance, reputation, and well known relabilaty (sic)". I am a previous owner of one of the most advanced cars made by Mercedes/AMG for its day, the 300SEL 6.3. Although my sporting tendencies are better satisfied by BMW, I have great respect for the engineering heritage of Mercedes.
Unfortunately, "relability", or reliability, as I prefer to spell it, is not a current stong suit of Mercedes. If it gets any worse, it may become its Achilles heel. I have many friends and associates who have handed down 240D's, 300D's, old SELs and the original E's through their family trees. The old joke was, "what's the difference between another car with 120,000 miles and a Mercedes with 120,000 miles?" The car is likely "broken" the Mercedes is "broken-in".
That history is not repeating itself, at least not without a lot of frustration among newer Mercedes buyers. Whereas BMW seems to have exorcised itself of electronic bugs that afflicted older models, some of those demons have settled within the Mercedes factory. The number of times my neighbor took back his 2000 E55 and now 2003 E500 to the dealership for problems is very discouraging.
I hope Mercedes hears these concerns load and clear. If my circle of friends is any indication, Mercedes can not afford not to rectify the poor reliability that has diminished their reputation over the past several years. One associate even indicated he is consdiering an Audi S8. That would have been inconceivable a few years back.
So I am not looking for a new Merc, just can't deal with the headaches, and from I've read the new C is not any better.
We are now looking at a BMW 325i as a replacement. Sure, maybe MB is making record profits but are they making decent cars? Not sure anymore...
I'm waiting for the new E-Class 320 CDI (diesel) to come out in the spring of 2004.
(epn2)-I made a typo like boo20 mentioned. I guess you did too look below.
"I hope Mercedes hears these concerns ->"load"<- and clear.
(boo20)-Thanks! For backing me up!
Your 300CD with 284,000 miles exemplifies the reason I would consider a Mercedes Wagon to replace our SUV at some point. Unfortunately, I am concerned that, based upon my empiracal and anecdotal research, the current Mercedes E class is not as troubleproof and reliable as some of the older Mercedes models or the BMW 5-series. This fact seems to be documented by Consumer Reports, JD Powers, and even the information coming out of these Edmunds boards.
I almost bought a E300 turbodiesel in 1999 before they were discontinued. Maybe I'm doing some wishful thinking, but I'm hoping that by the time Mercedes reintroduces the new diesels, they will have fixed the bugs and problems that would otherwise make 284,000 miles of ownership less pleasant than yours has been. If that happens, a 320CDI 4-matic Wagon would be high on my wish list.
Please post any sources for CDI information that you might have. Thanks.
benzowner: for the record, my 1996 E320 engine (straight six) isn't bulletproof. I had to have a head gasket replaced at 118K miles.. And there are many others who have experienced the same, well before 150K miles. Checkbook deflated a LOT !!!
sdautoreview: 285K miles on your 1984 300CD is awesome. That's the kind of life I had hoped to get from my E320, but it already is falling short of that kind of durability with the head gasket issue. I'm told that the gasket may go south again at some point; it is an inherent flaw in the engine/head design on that engine. I certainly don't want to pay for it twice just to say I got to 300K miles on one car..! I'm surprised C280 owners haven't seen the same issue. It's basically the same block and head as the 320. so I'm told..
jfz219: My 1996 was a 2 year old Starmark car when I bought it and I thought I was getting a bargain; a beautiful Benz at a big discount.. And I was seriously thinking about a 2001 or 2002 Starmark for next year. But after hearing of all the things going wrong with those model years, I am having second thoughts about it. Even though the warranty may cover most of that stuff, the warranty only goes to 100K miles; then what? So it becomes a trade-in at 100K ?? Have all the MB's since the mid-90's lost the durability that made them famous?
The dealer will reset your "check engine" light when you take it in for service. Were you saying you wanted to turn the light off without finding out the reason it was on?
Happy Motoring! Mark156
If you've been driving an MB you won't be happy with the Lexus.
I did it myself last year for a total of about $80. I have a friend who got me the wires at the distributor pricing of about $60.. Took me about 1.5 hours because I had to figure out the setup. It is far different from most cars. MB claims you only need to do the plugs every 100K miles. I did mine at 80K and they were in dire need of replacement. A more realistic interval is probably 60K miles for the plugs. I've now got over 40K on the replacement plugs and wires with no problems.
I had a non-mfg service center screw me over many years ago when I had replaced the wires and plugs in an american car and it ran rough as hell. They claimed it was a bad plug and charged me for diagnosis, a plug, and labor. Two days later, while on vacation at the beach, the car wouldn't even start unless cranked for about 2 minutes. Once running, I saw the problem that was accentuated because of the high humidity. The wires were so poorly made that they were shorting out to the block wherever they came near the metal. I replaced the wires with good ones that day and it ran great for years..!
I hope your mechanic is right about the diagnosis; you don't want to be replacing the sensors next week in addition to an un-needed set of wires and plugs..!
microrepair: I believe that you are correct. No doubt. But the ignition wires are about $130-140 . I did check with Mercedeshop.com
The MB drives excelllent and is a great choice ( I owned a 5 series before (fun to drive and manual option are plus for BMW) but Mercedes makes better quality vehicles period.
Wire sets
Click here for the link microrepair wanted you to see.cduong:
This link is for IPA parts website. They show both the Bosch and MB wire sets for $90 each.
The link was so long that it skewed the page meaning everyone would have to scroll left to right to read every single line on the page, so I had to remove the post.
Maybe Jill can donate her car to Monster garage. When they discard all of the faulty parts made by the former UberCarCo there may be enough left for a still life honoring times gone by.
Sorry to hear about your expensive problems with your 1998 Wagon. The good news is that, at least in my area, the E-class Wagons have decent resale values so if you do decide to trade it, hopefully you won't take too much of a beating. As for the C class wagon, it's considerably smaller and, according to my local dealer, the C class has had just as many bugs and problems as the E. The difference being that you would have a new car under warranty. The current crop of wagons all have their pros and cons. Volvo's are good for about 5 years, then they seem to become expensive to maintain. If you don't really need the size of the E class, I might suggest an Infiniti FX35/45 crossover vehicle as an alternative to a smaller wagon. Infiniti seems to have nearly as good of a reliability rating as Lexus and, according to one of my associates who purchased a FX35 after trading thier Volvo XC, it fits their needs.
Polo,
"The MB drives excelllent and is a great choice ( I owned a 5 series before (fun to drive and manual option are plus for BMW) but Mercedes makes better quality vehicles period".
There is an abundance of evidence here at Edmunds, JD Powers, Consumer Reports and your local Mercedes and BMW dealerhips that the current 5 series is a far more dependable car than the current and immediately previous E-class. As far as fit and finish, both are excellent, but I would still give the 5 series the nod over the E-class. The interior of my neighbor's 2000 E55 was more spacious than my M5, but from the headliner to the seats, everything in the BMW was a comparable or better quality of materials and workmanship.
I think you need to replace your "period" with "in my opinion" and then do a little more research. There are a lot more "Jill's" on the E class board than on the 5-series board.
I remain a fan of Mercedes, still believing my old 300 SEL 6.3 to have been one of the most advanced vehicles for its day ever produced, "period". But the statement that the current E class is a better quality vehicle than the current 5 series is simply not true. In my opinion.
Thanks for the recreated link..
polo and others:
Also look at this Edmunds discussion group for a very sobering discussion of the W211 chassis and the numerous problems.
Mercedes-Benz E Class Owners: Problems & Solutions