Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

finadv · November 2003

As footie states, if you are looking for the most cost efficient car, then a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic would cost you the least per mile driven in the end. If you are looking for reliable luxury then a Lexus is probably your best choice. But if you are looking for luxury that says you "have arrived," then the Mercedes is your car. How many songs have you heard that sing the praises of Lexus. How many movies/shows do you see Lexus' when they want to denote success. The Mercedes is everywhere in song, movies, TV shows, etc. The look of surprise you get when you drive up in your Mercedes from your neighbors/friends will far surpass anything you get from a Lexus. A Lexus is just another luxury car. The Mercedes is the luxury car of choice for the rich and famous, and maybe you.

acco20 · November 2003

Nice speach... but, "those days" are over.

barry45rpm · November 2003

People who are buying a Lexus nowadays are buying them for their reliability, or their perceived achievement of technical perfection over MB. They would RATHER have bought the MB, but don't want the frequent visits to the shop. Ask anyone who owns a Rolex if he doesn't have another watch he wears more often because it keeps better time! Rolex fairly screams "Success", but has to be reset to the correct time in as little as every 2 weeks!

On the other hand, the MB does last a lot longer, running like a tight, youthfull car when it has many, many miles on it...but most luxury car owners are out of their Luxury cars every 4 years, so who cares how long it will last each of its next 2 owners?

On the other hand...how can you look at the LS 430 and the '04 E class, and not see the LS 430 as a "plain, girl next door" loaded Avalon, and at the same time realize that there is nothing else to compare the new E to. (except wwhen you compare trips to the shop)...
...Rolex vs Tag Heuer

r1_97 · November 2003

I got a warning light "B Service in next 4,000)miles" on my '01 E-320. It's got about 14,000 miles. The dealer's service dept. told me that Mercedes will pay for the service but only when the warning is less than 1000 miles. Has anyone else run into this? Why give a warning too early?

donald02 · November 2003

Why not take your last service invoice and show the dealer that you have over 10,000 miles since that service. You will get your service.

merc1 · November 2003

"I just went by what I saw on a couple of web sites."

Therein lies the problem, taking everything as gospel with not a single thought behind it. Your first post is about Toyota, now it's Lexus. The percentage would be higher for Lexus based on time since they've only been around since 1990. Now since 1990 between Mercedes and Lexus I wonder what the percentage would be? Any facts on that? As always baseless claims from you.

I don't agree with you on reliability and durability. While they are not mutually exclusive they aren't joined at the hip either. Everyone knows that Toyota is tops in reliability as are most Honda and Nissan products. However you'd be fooling yourself if think that Acura hasn't had a transmission problem on the TL-S, Infiniti a brake problem with the G35. Japanese cars as a whole are not on the same level as Toyota. To say so is completely incorrect. Durability is also found in things like paint, body, interior and so on, and cars like Mercedes and Volvo have always shined in these areas. For every story you have about an Acura or Toyota lasting, I can spot 10 more on the street, while running, that are in horrible shape.

M

Edsoto · November 2003

Its All In The Eye of the Owner...
----------------------------------
Durability / Reliability... How do you actually know? You cannot guarantee that each owner treated the car the same. For one to test both of these, you have to have 2 cars (picked at random), driven the same way, the same mileage, the same routes and then see what happens after certain intervals. Say, after four years, you compare both cars and see the results. Car A Issues vs. Car B Issues.

Ideally, if Car A had nothing but oil changes done at the end, and Car B ended up in the shop for this and that (hopefully you went to different shops to rule out bad mechanics at anyone shop)...
You could say that Car A was a better buy than Car B. But hindsight is always 20/20 and at this point it does not mean that the next car A model that you have will be as reliable at the first car A model! Chances are you will not be buying a car B, (but just say you did, and the next car B was trouble free after 4 years? What does this mean? )... So many variables to take into account.

It is all luck whether you get a lemon or not. If the original owner takes super care of their "baby" then it will last for years and years. If the owner used their SL500 as an off-road vehicle, then it won't be timeless - and if you end up buying that vehicle used, you will be stuck with a lemon! (Just like the Carfax commercials).

One thing that Mercedes has, that contributes to this everlasting image of the company, is the grill with the star on-top. Rolls-Royce also has this 'look'. The fronts of Lexus, Acuras are somewhat all different.

If anyone has ever seen the "Maltese Falcon" then they can relate the MB Star and grill (and all the feelings about it) to "What dreams are made of..."

Mercedes spent the last 100 years building a brand image and a mystique about it. Lexus 10. So I grew up with the Janis Joplin song, the Indiana Jones movies. This added to the mystique went I purchased the car. Give Lexus a few song writers and movies and too will have a mystique about them in a couple of decades.

I see more comparasions with Lexus and Mercedes. Is it just me? But what about Mercedes to Porsche? Or Mercedes to Bentley? Or Mercedes to Jaguar?

Thanks -

Ed - 2002/E-320 "My Gullwing"

[14 times serviced in a 17 months).

donald02 · November 2003

Why not take your last service invoice and show the dealer that you have over 10,000 miles since that service. You will get your service.

barry45rpm · November 2003

I don't think you can compare the two. Benz vs Jag There is simply no "panosh" to driving a Jag. Anyone who wants one can get one, and they are nothing special in any area you care to look at. At least now that they are owned by Ford, they run, and are more ergonomically designed. Makes you wonder why Americans who bought them in the past put themselves through all of the work of ownership for not much compensation.

Edsoto · November 2003

Reuters News:
Quality problems, but there is light at the end of the tunnel:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=reutersEdge&sto- ryID=3836369

Autoweek article about Mercedes & BMW to build more cars (which means more delays at the dealership's service center):

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=07003119

bentleyfam25 · November 2003

I'm advised by the retailer that the adjustable sport suspension can only be purchased on the E320 as part of the appearance package, a $3,800 purchase that contains nothing else I'm interested in. Is this true, or can the sport suspension be purchased as a standalone option?

Thanks in advance --

cxxviii · November 2003

Hoping for some advice...

I have a Volvo S80, and a recent job switch has changed my commute from 3 miles to 20 each way. The Volvo is mediocre in bad weather, so I am thinking about changing (and upgrading...).

How is the E320 in bad weather? I want the 4Matic, but no one has one I can get before winter is all but over. Is the RWD acceptable? I am also 'hooked' on NAV systems, but all of the reviews say that the Mercedes NAV system is NOT user friendly. Any comments on that? And (finally), should I consider a used E320 with 4Matic and NAV or hold out for the 2004?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

mb2003 · November 2003

the air suspension comes standard in E500. But, on E320, yes, the only way is to get as a part of the Sport Pkg.

footie · November 2003

Hi,

The Clair Motors Website is showing 3 2004 E 4 matics in inventory. They are also called Mercedes of Westwood (MA) and are located on US Route 1 just west of Route 128 in the Boston area.

I checked Herb Chambers website and didn't see any there - they have two dealerships, one in Boston and one in Lynfield. Foreign Motors West in Natick MA might have them but they don't show their new MB inventory on line.

Good shopping.

letdownbymb · November 2003

My new E pulls to the right. The dealer says the car's "within factory specs" and can't/won't find what's wrong with it. I've read complaints from other E-class owners about this problem. Has anyone been able to get the solution???

wesbarnes · November 2003

My 2003 E320 has 500 miles on it but it has a thumping noise near the gas cap when the car is stopped and running. It is pretty loud and can be heard over the air conditioner. The dealer says it is the charcoal cannister and it is operating as designed. Dealer has replaced the cannister and the relay so far and is now going to try to put sound proofing around the cannister. It sure is driving me crazy. Any one else have this problem? If so, what was done to fix it?

footie · November 2003

Wesbarnes

Does this rattling cannister episode (hopefully it will get resolved soon!) impact your feelings about the traditional 'prestige' that Mercedes garners and strives to merchandise?

There are discussions in lots of other boards here on Edmunds where Mercedes forte is considered it's prestige and cache.

Yet, I wonder how much longer that can continue when it seems that so many owners have problems right from the drive out! It's clear that they aren't struggling with 'bleeding edge technology', they are having a hard time getting the basics right as the poster prior to you indicates.

r1_97 · November 2003

Check tire pressure. If OK, demand to take service rep on drive on level straight highway. Demonstrate pulling to right and demand it to be realligned. Car should not pull to either side - will cause bad tire wear and is dangerous. If you get no satisfaction from dealer write to Mercedes.

pvellozo · November 2003

i purchased a 2002 e320 with a 4 year starmark warranty and love the car. because of the reported reliability problems i think it might be a good idea to get an additional year or 2 extension on the warranty. does anyone know how that can be done?

marsha7 · November 2003

believe to be older MBs...I see on the road some MBs that look fairly large (the size of the E or S class, definitely much bigger than C), but they have designations on the rear like 300E, 400E, 400SE, 400SEL, etc....I assume these are older cars, but how much older???...when were these vehicles made, and, are they worth considering to own???...if older, do they have problems of their own, or were they built in the "grand old days when MBs were the best"...(since we seem to have posters commenting that the new ones ain't made like they used to be)...are these the cars that used to be, but are they too old to consider owning, say, due to high mileage, excessive maintenance, or anything else the knowledgeable ones can enlighten me...anyway, it seems that the designations are reversed (400E instead of E400)...or, is this a "cheap" (ha-ha) way to buy a Benz???thanks

letdownbymb · November 2003

I did all that. After having the car returned by the dealer twice, supposedly aligned, the car still pulled to the right. Angry, I took the service manager for a spin, only to have him tell me the pulling was "acceptable", which of course it isn't. A month ago I learned that a factory rep was in town and took the car in to show him. He says the problem is likely to be in the suspension, but wouldn't elaborate. He says they need some special tool from the factory to fix the problem, but it's been a month and they keep giving me the runaround. The pulling is maddening.

tmorales · November 2003

Those cars that end with E are the pre '96 Eclass cars and the cars that end in S are also older S class sedans and coupes and convertibles depending on the letters that follow the S. SEL is a long wheelbase sedan. SL is the convertible. SEC is a coupe. Also, there was a pre '96 E class which was diesel engined, and was called the 300D You will see many of those around because those Diesel engines are virtually bulletproof.

microrepair · November 2003

When I purchased my 96 under Starmark, I had the opportunity at that time to purchase 1 or 2 years of coverage beyond the standard additional 1 year. As I recall, one year extra would have cost $1500 and the two extra years would have been $2200. In my case, that would have been money thrown away. Any repairs I needed prior to 100K miles only cost about $1200 total and were covered since they were within the total of 5 years of coverage. Now, talk to me about repairs from 100K to 125K and that's where I needed that coverage..!!

I don't think you can buy more time once you've taken delivery. But call your sales person and ask..

r1_97 · November 2003

Document each step of your problem and MB's failure to fix it. Write a letter to MB saying that you need your car for work and that their inaction and failure to fix the problem is causing a "dangerous condition" to you and others and that they will be held liable for any damages caused thereby. You might mention that this is causing you emotional distress. Demand that they provide you another "E" to drive until they fix the problem.

Hopefully, this will get the attention of their legal dept who will light a fire under their service dept.

lex10 · November 2003

I own a 2003 E500 with a heated steering wheel and don't think it's working properly. Only a small portion of the wheel gets warm. Has anyone else experienced a similar problem?

P.S. The dealer says that the wheel is not supposed to get warm and the wheel is working properly.

pat · November 2003

a heated steering wheel is not supposed to get warm?

lex10 · November 2003

What is heated steering supposed to do?
Mine doesn't seem to do anything, I had another Benz and it was warm on cold days.

clembo · November 2003

I have the heated wheel on my car and it is the wood wheel as well. The only part that heats is the leather part which does seem to work well. It needs to be turned on with a twist of the end of a thin stalk at the bottom left of the wheel.

It does not get hot but is does get warm enough to feel nice on cold days.

wesbarnes · November 2003

The noise is not a rattle but a loud thumping noise when the canister is operating to burn off any unused gas.
I have purchased Mercedes Benz automobiles for the past 15 years and yes, this problem does have me wondering if I should now buy American!!!

footie · November 2003

The canister's don't burn off the gas as I understand, they purge the gas vapors collected in the canister charcoal to the atmosphere.

I am just guessing here, but...

The thumping you are hearing could be caused by a defective purge valve or perhaps one that is not properly mounted and thumping when actuated. I guess it could be one of the lines that comes to the canister that is 'jumping' during purging and then whacking into something.

Here's an explanation that I picked up on the web that might give you some clues.

"Most fuel evaporation systems use the charcoal canister to store fuel evaporative vapors. The canister consists of a fuel-resistant nylon or plastic container filled with activated charcoal granules. Fuel vapors are "soaked-up" by the charcoal. Venting air through the canister removes the fuel vapors and restores the absorbent qualities of the charcoal. A basic canister has a single purge line from the top of the canister to the air cleaner, PCV line, or intake manifold. When the engine starts, manifold vacuum draws fuel vapors out of the canister. The purging action restores the activated charcoal. To gain more control, a purge valve is used on some designs. This valve allows the manufacturer to tailor purge timing, as well as the volume of canister fumes purged to suit a particular application or engine operating condition."

Good luck.

mark156 · November 2003

Tmorales, Marsha7.... Mercedes changed the placement of the letters starting in the 1994 model year. The leters appear before the number on all classes (1994+).

M.

wesbarnes · November 2003

Appreciate your response. The information you provided may help me when I take it into the dealer once again on Monday so they can install sound proofing. If it is operating as designed but is making noise, maybe this will fix it. If not, this will be the third time they have had a shot at it and one was for four days. If this attempt does not make it quiet, then my next step is to apply to the State of Florida under the lemon law. Still looking out here for another 2003 E320 owner who has been faced with this same problem.

jaymazik · November 2003

Hello all...
I'm currently on the market for a 1995 (prior to the heinous '96 redesign!) E320. I am looking for one with 70-90K miles on it for a weekend car. I understand the 3.2L 6 is a highly reliable engine. I'm amazed at the deals out there (>$15K). I'd love some input from '95 E320 sedan owners about your experiences, issues, and suggestions. Thanks in advance!

footie · November 2003

I saw a 1994 E320 on eBay 80K miles Reserve price $8250

This appears to be a Florida car in very good condition. Check ebay motors item #2443589508. 9 hours to go as of 10 am Eastern time on Sunday.

There is also a 95 about the same mileage in Richmond. Buy it now price $9800 for sale for two more days.

There's an E300 Diesel too.

Good shopping!

microrepair · November 2003

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I happen to think that my 96 has classic beauty. It caused many other manufacturers to copy parts of it's looks, from the 4-eye front to the sloped edge rear light assemblies. Also, the 96-up model has a couple inches more room in many interior dimensons.

Re: the 3.2L engine (the 96 & 97 have the same engine), it is not as durable as others would have you believe. It has a generic problem with the head gasket and many of them need a new gasket between 100k & 150K. Mine needed it at 116K and I was able to get it done for "only" $1350.. That was at my dealer and others quoted from $1600-$2000. Also, the grounding of the coils on the head is problematic. It just cost me $130 to have a mechanic tell me that one coil was not grounding correctly causing the Check Engine message as well as running kinda rough at times. He put some conductive gel under the coils so they wouldn't do that again.

Good luck in your search...

mbnut1 · November 2003

It is one of the more beautiful sedans ever made. Period.

bobk15 · November 2003

Anyone considering Keyless Go on a Mercedes should think twice. If you have it, everytime you open the door (to enter or leave) a very annoying alarm will go off reminding you to take your key. The ability to open your car without taking out your key is not worth the continuous annoyance everytime you enter or leave the car. Mercedes refuses to do anything about it.

ong2000 · November 2003

bobk15:

I tried a demo car E500/2004 last week with the Keyless go. I don't hear the annoying alarm you mentioned. Maybe there is some thing wrong with your car ?

mb2003 · November 2003

I agree w/ bobk15 regarding the annoyance of the beeping sound alarm. The only way to stop (that I am aware of) is by pushing the RESET button on the dash. I wish it's programmable.

With that said, the Keyless Go is pretty cool feature I find.

blockislandguy · November 2003

Everyone agrees that there are some problems with the E Series. Three Questions: Are the electrical problems mainly in the interface between the NAV and everything else? Or are the electrical problems more fundamental (such as an alternator) and such that the car can't be driven.

Secondly, are there problems specific to certain years within say the last three years.

Finally, about the "head gasket" problem, when I read posts (e.g., Microrepair) about dealers quoting $1600 to replace the head gasket, does that also includes rebuilding the cylinder head because "as long as it is off and needs to be resurfaced we'll do the head too."? If it doesn't include what used to be called a valve job and more correctly should be called rebuilding the head and they are charging the poor fish who buy MB because "they scream success" (to use an earlier poster's description) $1600 to remove the head, resurface it so it will hold a gasket and then put on a new gasket, wow! Someone should email Elliot Spitzer to look into this after he gets finished with mutual funds.

carisart · November 2003

How much discount can you get for '04 E500 4matic? What state?

microrepair · November 2003

Hey, whaddya want for a measly $1600 ??? I feel pretty good that I only had to pay $1350 to my own dealer.. I RAN away from the independent mechanic who started at $2000 (including a valve grind) and was hinting at $2400 if the valve bushings and seals needed to be done. I've never heard of anyone having any valve problems on any MB so I felt safe doing without the valve job. So far it is running great with almost 8K miles since the head gasket job.

blockislandguy · November 2003

Microrepair, I would love to see what the flat rate time is to remove your MB head, dissassemble it, clean it, check it for straightness, scuff it up some so it will hold a head gasket, and then throw it back on.

Lets run some numbers. Lets assume that the MB flat rate time is 11 hours which works out to $1000. The rest of your bill ($350) we will say was for new gaskets, new fluids (although in truth the old antifreeze was just poured back in) , the head resurfacing done down the street (no Virginia, car dealers don't have cylinder head resurfacing machines), an "environmental charge" their CPA thinks is a cute way to run up an invoice, and maybe a valve or valve spring they had to replace.

Now, if the technician had the right impact wrenches (you don't think that they work on these things with gentle hand tools, do you?) laid out, how long could it have really taken him to rip off the head, bring it to a bench, strip it, send it out for resurfacing, then reassemble it and reinstall it? Maybe 4 hours? If the warranty labor rate was $85 per hour and the mechanic received a third of this (including all benefits, health, workman's comp etc.) then the guy with the air wrench picked up maybe $350 for a morning's work.

This reminds me of the conversation between a physician and the plumber: "Gee, $125 to fix someething in 5 minutes? I'm a doctor and even I don't make that kind of money!"; "I know", says the mechanic, "neither did I when I was a doctor."

nyceducator1 · November 2003

Have had my E320 a month and a half have 2500 miles already. Weekend driving ... Car does it all well.... get the sport package! Find a road and just go the car will cruise to 110 in a heartbeat....

r1_97 · November 2003

and cruise along @ 110 mph?

blockislandguy · November 2003

R1_07, a lot of people associate New York state with urban areas. But in fact it gets real lonely in lots of places including the Soutern Tier, Upstate, the Finger Lakes, etc. To do a burst up to a buck ten first pick your weather and then try the New York State Thruway between Albany and Utica or I87 from Albany to an hour above Binghampton.

ray_h71 · November 2003

"The canister's don't burn off the gas as I understand, they purge the gas vapors collected in the canister charcoal to the atmosphere."

Well, you're half right, footie - the fuel vapor recovery canister doesn't burn off the fuel vapors. But, the vapors are NOT vented to the atmosphere, either. The vapors are stored in the canister's activated charcoal.* Depending on ambient temperature, these vapors may condense back to liquid in a liquid/vapor seperator. The recovered liquid gasoline is directed back to the fuel tank through a dedicated line. However if it's too warm for the vapors to condense, they're periodically directed into the intake manifold by the purge control valve as pressure rises, to be burned normally by the engine. At NO time are fuel vapors intentionally vented to the atmosphere. (The EPA would just love THAT!) That's the whole idea of the fuel vapor recovery system in the first place.

*This is why you never want to top off the tank until the filler neck is full. The excess liquid fuel will be forced by normal evaporation pressure build-up through the return line to the charcoal canister where it will be absorbed by and foul the activated charcoal. (Think of it as the automotive equivalent of acid reflux we've all experienced after unthinkingly indulging in a wedge or two of pepperoni/anchovi/pineapple pizza just before hittin' the sack. Oh, my bad - this is a Mercedes forum; none of you people do anything like that...) In some cases it won't be able to clear itself, the engine won't run right, and the owner'll be looking at pricey fuel vapor recovery system components replacement. On a final thought, this system is dependant on proper sealing - including the fuel cap. These caps have a ratcheting one-way clutch. When replacing the cap, ALWAYS turn it tightly enough that the ratchet makes several loud clicks - that's the only way you know it's sufficiently tightened. Don't worry about the clicking noise - it's intentionally designed that way so it can be heard above the din of traffic going past the service station. Nothing's broken.

footie · November 2003

You are right. Purging to the atmosphere would be an EPA baddy.

I read it wrong. The quoted part of my post it says that the top of the cannister is connected back to the engine so that the manifold vacuum can bring air through to purge it.

I like that explanation better than relying on some drip system to drain the gas back into the tank.

I am not trying to be argumentative, but the issue here is why is this guy's E is making an awful sound and I don't think that has anything to do with the gas cap. That sounds like something a sales guy at a dealership would say.

My money is still on the purge valve. I think it's cycling too often and at the wrong time.

A look at the OBD II profile might show the blips if it were accurate enough.

Too much guess work for me and a problem that shouldn't be occuring in the first place.

kevinc5 · December 2003

Any recommendations for independent service shops for my 75,000 mile 2000 E320?
Thanks

r1_97 · December 2003

San Diego is a big city. I live in North County (Encinitas). I've used Charlie's Foreign Car Service - 2d Street- Encinitas. 760-753-4969. We've had them service our '98 and 01 E-320s. Only used for oil change, brakes etc. No major work. About 15-20% less than dealer. Never had a car for 75k miles.

Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

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