Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

blockislandguy · February 2004

Greasykid, conrats on the 14K miles, 2001 E Class with Starmark plus additional warranty. BUT, not knowing what you paid for the car plus Starmark, I'm wondering if a newer E Class would have been no more money? Sure you got a low mileage 2001 but then put two warrantys into it. What if you had bought a newer, higher mileage car without Starmark but with the other warranty?

greasykid1 · February 2004

My 2001 was $35000 plus $1400 for extended. The $35000 included Starmark so total cost was $36400.

Car had only 14K mi. and was a local car sold originally by the MB dealer. This car also had the SPORT pkg. which was a $4100 extra when new.

Also dealer had new Michelin Pilots mounted on the 17" wheels.

To make a long story short the car listed for $54000 new.

Everything taken into consideration I feel that the price was good when all the above includes 5 1/2 yrs of warranty. There is not a dent or scratch on the black/black. Of course the E2 pkg was on it as well as CD changer.

Summing it all up: This is the EXACT car I was looking for. Color,equipment,& spt pkg.

By the way this is my 17th MB.

mbnut1 · February 2004

Congrats on number 17. Keep the faith

microrepair · March 2004

When for approx. $15K less you get essentially a new car (let's face it, 14K miles on a MB is barely break-in mileage!) with a warranty far better than the new car warranty..

I'm extremely envious of greasykid1 because I'm looking for nearly the same car (except w/o the sport option) and most dealers around here for the last month haven't had anything even close to the one he bought. They have some 2000's w/50K+ miles and they have some 2002's for well over the $40K mark even with 35K miles!! Hell it took me 4 months to find my used 96, so I guess I'll have to go through this search again..! Rats!

Or... maybe I should move to NC.. I've wanted to move to NC or SC anyway!!

greasykid1 · March 2004

Go on MB web site and do a search. You can specify the model etc & search all dealer inventories for preowned models.

Also I did a lot of research on E Bay for preowned 320. I zeroed in on the "BUT IT NOW" prices because this is the price that a dealer would take--not a bid. Got a pretty good idea what similar cars were selling for. Also used this as a bagaining chip when I negotiated for price.

I am in NC & my dealer had several E320's on his lot---Preowned.

Edsoto · March 2004

You may want to look into your insurance company's extended warranty. Geico offers one.

pat · March 2004

Consumers' Most Wanted Vehicles for 2004 Survey is posted and ready for your input!

donald02 · March 2004

Go to the following web site and click on "Geneva Auto Show" to see a good video on the new european cars including Meredes Benz.

http://www.nytimes.com/pages/automobiles/index.html?adxnnl=1&- adxnnlx=1078584454-kK1na3IuK0MEhdwdi/lVcQ

donald02 · March 2004

Go to the following web site and click on "Geneva Auto Show" to see a good video on the new european cars including Meredes Benz.

http://www.nytimes.com/pages/automobiles/index.html?adxnnl=1&- adxnnlx=1078584454-kK1na3IuK0MEhdwdi/lVcQ

jwebamg · March 2004

I'm considering a newer E-class for my commuter car. The commute is about 50 miles, mostly reverse commute. I was considering a 1998/99 300D turbo diesel. But I found a good deal on a 2000 E430 and was wondering about the mileage hit.

Also, what's the reliability hit on a 4matic?

Thanks for any advice/help!

mbnut1 · March 2004

Three guys in my office have that car and I am also considering it. Based on a conversaion with my old boss who has a 2002 it gets in the high teens (I suspect mixed driving). Everybody is expecting the this version of the 4matic to be reliable. How much are they asking for yours?

BTW I also drive a new E500 yesterday. I found the steering too light for my tastes same with new S class. Given the depreciation that the 210's have taken I like them better.

mark156 · March 2004

Jwebamg....... I have a 2000 E430 sport with 24,800 miles. I'm getting about 18 city and 22 on the road. After 53 months of ownership, mine still looks like brand new with very few adjustments made at the dealer over that time. Beware, if you have the low profile tires, they will need replacement every 20,000 miles. The "Z" rated tires are excellent but wear out rather fast. Since I only drive this car about 5,000 miles a year, it's not an issue with me.

Mark

donald02 · March 2004

I have an '01 E430 with 22K miles that just had it's second key failure. The key will open the door but won't start the car. Has anyone else had this probelm? Mercedes is fixing it no charge but it's a pain in the fanny.

mark156 · March 2004

Donald02, I think I read in the manual to keep the key clean so that the ignition and the key can correspond with each other. Are you by chance scratching the end of the key? I don't keep any keys attached to the car key nor do I carry change in the same pocket as the key.

Mark156

mikem1 · March 2004

Just had my wife try to pickup our 2000 E320 today after it died on the street. Check engine light came on, oil level too high light came on and it started to misfire.

Wife got it to a driveway, had it towed to the dealer. After 2 days they pronouced it fixed, the problem was:
Running 93 octane fuel lead to too much gas being unburned by poor combustion. unburned gas went into crankcase adding to level trigger light. Low temperatures(under 40) prevent 93 octane fuel from burning efficiently, clogging injectors--or so the story went.
Anyway, the wife showed up to pick it up and the check engine light promptly came on--so much for the fix. They kept the car and gave us a ML 350.

The car has 64K on it and has been a good car to drive except an A/C system which needed 4 fixes to get right and numerous electrical failures--Fuel tank sending unit, oil level sensor, fuel pump to name a few.

Would appreciate your views on the perils of using 93 octane gas in the winter.
OBTW, anybody have a feel for the cost for a conplete brake job--rotors and pads?
Thanks.

shipo · March 2004

I've been around cars for a long time and I've NEVER heard a story like that. If your car's owners manual says 93 Octane, then 93 Octane is what you should be using. Period. Now, if your car calls for 87 or 89 Octane, then some of the problems listed in your post are certainly possible, however, "Clogging injectors", I don't think so. Unless Mercedes-Benz switched to direct injection earlier then I thought they were supposed to (in fact, I don't think it has happened yet), then there is no way higher octane fuel can clog injectors due to incomplete combustion.

I suggest that you ask for a regional supervisor to have a look-see on your car.

Best Regards,
Shipo

mikem1 · March 2004

Ther service guy called back early today and explained why the check engine light came on-- atleast one converter was plugged and will need to be replaced--under the emissions warranty which is 100K.
The expalanation goes that unburned gas kept getting fed into the converter which eventually cooked it. Not sure if both are gone but atleast one is done; can you imagine what that would have cost out of warranty?
The service guy left a length description on my voicmail on how the octane additive screwed things up--I will type it out on the site after I transcibe it. I'm still stunned by the explanation; if gas was truely getting buy the ring and values to the point of diluting the oil and plugging the converter, you'd think my gas mileage would be down--it's not, 27-29 highway during the winter.
Also, doesn't the oil sensor have some way of determining the quality of the oil and letting you know it's time to change the oil?

Finally, with all this going on and the potential for a big out of warranty repair bill lurking with the next call from the service advisor, I checked in peddling the car either in trade or an outright sale to an MB dealer. A Honda and an MB dealer both offered about $18K; the sticker was $54k 4 years ago and the car is in very nice shape. I must have laughed out loud when i heard the number because the Honda guy became very quiet. If this number holds up, it looks like I'll be driving this puppy until the motor goes.

jean7of9 · March 2004

Two years ago we had problems in Canada with Shell which winter additives deposited a spongy substance inside fuel tanks. Thousands of cars needed fuel sending units replacement including my 99 E320 4matic. In your case, there is a possibility that the same deposits which clogged your fuel sending unit must have also clogged your injectors.

mikem1 · March 2004

both converters were replaced under warranty--thank God.
when I asked what I could do to help avoid this, the service guy said to use 87 octane gas when the temp was under 40F and 92 octane when above. I didn't get into the question of was this the low temp or high temp of the day:)

The supposed issue is that lower temperatures prevent the high octane gas from atomizing correctly, letting gas go unburned and getting into the oil and converter.
I guess that could be possible but if this were the case, wouldn't this be widespread and MB would issue a technical bulletin on this? I asked and MB has not issued a TB on this problem.

I keep getting the feeling that this isn't the last time this problem will come up.

jean7of9 · March 2004

Never heard or read about such "advise" before, any where on this planet. You mean that filling gas now comes with a temperature chart posted at the filling pump. Doesn't your MB manual recommend a 91 octane gas? I think you should seek sound advise from another dealer. Good Luck.

mikem1 · March 2004

MBUSA or call for regional support to see if that helps.
I have no experience with other MB dealers so I have nothing to compare them to.

Since I purchased the car there and we're out of warranty, I don't have much leverage with the dealer other than hoping they'll do the right thing to avoid loosing a customer.

footie · March 2004

What did the substance look like? Sponges? Goo?

Were there any newspaper articles about this?

Doing a google search on 'spongy substance in gas tanks' didn't produce any thing like what your dealer told you.

Sorry, but this sounds like a new high in the art of dealer baloney.

microrepair · March 2004

there was "nothing new under the sun?" Was this "service guy" the Manager or one of the mechanics, er, technicians..? His explanation would cause me to RUN, not walk to another dealer or independent repair shop. Besides, most reputable brands of gasoline come with different additives dependent upon the season just to avoid issues of gumming deposits, etc..

mikem1 · March 2004

was the Mercedes Service Mgr. and he admitted he has limited technical skills. His predecessor was a sharp guy and very straight forward.
The car was to be delivered today but my wife got a call late in the day saying it was misfiring so they were going to hold on it it for a bit longer.

This problem seems to be taking on a life of itself; it seems clear that the dealer can't diagnose the problem and their solution reveals just how little they know.

The heck of it is, I'm not sure where to go with this. I've lost faith in the dealer and I don't have anyone else to take the car to. It doesn't sound like MBUSA would be of any help but I'll try them if we hit a wall on the fix. The dealership owner is the final guy I will talk to on this if they mechanics can't figure it out.

I don't want to sell the car to a private buyer because I don't want an irrate stranger coming after me. That $18K offer from the Honda dealer is sounding better all the time.

barry45rpm · March 2004

Does anyone know if the dealer's kit for adding Sirius Satellite Radio to my ("pre-wired") Satellite ready car is available for installation at the dealer's service department yet?

rsindallas · March 2004

The dealer is refusing to come down from 36,900 price tag; it has 34K mileage with CD changer, sunroof and heated front seats. Its in very good condition... think they will/can come down on the price? Also, anyone with info on the dealership 'Ewing Autohaus' in Dallas, especially related to their level of service would be greatly appreciated.

mbnut1 · March 2004

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2467917469&category=6335

carnaught · March 2004

Keep in mind that the wholesale price now on a used '03 E320 is now about $37k !

mbnut1 · March 2004

Do you like a 03 E320 better than an 01 430?

carnaught · March 2004

I like BOTH cars. This is it in a proverbial nutshell... As I've previously pointed out, they each have their desirable qualities. The Lexus is smooth, reliable, and does everything you want it too with poise, class and top notch ergonomics. The E does this as well, just not quite as well. The Benz is more fun to drive, feels more sporting and inspires confidence and security with its vault-like solid presence and feel. I favor the looks of the E over the LS.

Keep in mind too that my Lexus stickered for close to $8k more than my E.

chavis10 · March 2004

Check out the new Cadillac STS

http://www.bomengen.com/gm/sts/STS_1_web.jpg

http://www.bomengen.com/gm/sts/STS_2_web.jpg

http://www.bomengen.com/gm/sts/STS_4_web.jpg

http://www.bomengen.com/gm/sts/STS_3_web.jpg

http://www.bomengen.com/gm/sts/STS_6_web.jpg

shipo · March 2004

Please stop spamming the Town Hall with the STS.

habitat1 · March 2004

Has anyone here done it? Anyone been able to negotiate the ED price below the standard discount? (7% off MSRP on the E class, I believe)

Supposedly BMW ED prices are not negotiable, but thanks to info from www.eurobuyers.com, I was able to find dealers willing to go as low as $1,200 over the ED invoice (another $2-3k below the standard ED full price). Unfortunately, I'm not very interested in the 5 series redesign and am interested in the new E320 CDI.

chavis10 · March 2004

What's your beef dude? STS is a competitor to 5 and E.

rickrover · March 2004

Do you have any independent MB repair shops in your area? If so I'd start a relationship with an independent MB garage. Take your E in for it's next oil change and test them out. My parents have owned Mercedes since I was a little kid, they'd use the MB dealer service until it went out of warranty - when it never saw an MB dealer again. They keep their MB's up to the 200k mile mark or so, I took one of my mom's old S classes to 250k miles in college, it was still running perfectly when I sold it.

Now I may be in the market for my first new MB, the lease is about up on my 01 X5 and I'm thinking about a new E Class diesel - anyone here interested in the new E Class CDI?

shipo · March 2004

Not that it has any bearing here, but I do not find the STS to be even remotely competitive with either the 5 or the E, it's just too ugly and most probably (if the CTS is any indication) too cushy. That said, such a thread does not belong either here in the E-Class or over in the 5-Series discussion. These discussions are for folks to talk about those specific cars.

If you feel the overriding need to force your opinion on others, you can go over to the Sedans, Comparisons - Sedan vs. Sedan and start your own discussion called something like "The New Cadillac STS vs. THE WORLD"

Best Regards,
Shipo

pat · March 2004

Shipo is right about where that conversation belongs ... so let's get back to the E-Class now.

chavis10 · March 2004

Goodness gracious. Didn't know you people were so up tight. Just telling you to check out some pictures. But apparently nothing else is "remotely competive" based on nothing. Whatever, and try to relax a little.

pat · March 2004

No one said that *nothing* else is "remotely competitive". However, the point was made that this is not a comparo and therefore is not the right place to post links to pics of other vehicles. That is a valid point no matter whether the two of you agree on what competes.

I'm glad to see that you did create a discussion on the Comparisons board which is there specifically for that purpose. (I left you a message there just now.)

With this, let's drop the personal comments. We're here to talk about the E-Class and not each other.

Thanks.

habitat1 · March 2004

I'm very interested in the E320 CDI. Decent review of the car in last weekends Washington Post car section by Warren Brown. He managed to get 40.5 MPG in combined city/highway driving and came in 3rd among the jouralists who got ones to test drive. Top honors was someone who managed 45 mpg. And that from a car that seats 5, weighs 3,800 lbs and is capable of 0-60 in a reported 6.8 seconds.

I have never been as much of a fan of the sporting side of the E class (i.e. E430/500 or E55), being more of a fan of the (former) 5-series with a manual transmission. But if I ever wanted to justify a $50k sedan on financial prudence, teh E320 CDI is probably as good as it gets.

I have confirmed that the car is available through European Delivery at 7% off MSRP.

footie · March 2004

I kinda got the impression that 50K is the base price.

With only 6,000 of these coming to the States how many do we think will be here with less than $8000 - $10,000 in options

habitat1 · March 2004

Pricing is speculative for the next week or two. My dealer has a E320CDI Silver, charcoal interior, sunroof, heated seats and 6-CD changer sitting at the Baltimore port right now, waiting to be released.

He indicated that this vehicle would list for roughly $51,500 as a E320 gas. In the past (1998/99), the E300 TD was about $2k less than the E320 gas. I'd be happy if the new one was even $1k less.

I should know more in 7-10 days. I've already tentatively put my name on a late April order date for late July pick up in Germany. The car I would want would list at roughly $54.5k in gas version (premium package, upgraded leather (required by premium), xenon lights & metallic paint).

P.S. Everyone: My dealer also sells Acuras, and when asked, does not think the Mercedes DVD navigation system is even worth the relatively inexpensive $1,200 it lists for. Claims it is difficult to use, has too small of a screen and is three+ generations behind the 8" screen, completely voice activated system in the new TL. Comments please.

Footie, without the premium package (bagging nav system), and going instead with just a sunroof, entertainment package, xenons and metallic, I think I may be able to get the price under $50k via the 7% European delivery discount.

boiler1 · March 2004

Going over in May to pick up an E320 4Matic. Talked to 5 different dealers with no luck in negotiating a price lower than the published EDP price.

habitat1 · March 2004

Thanks. That seems to be consistent with what I've been told by at least 3 dealerships.

P.S. footie: I did manage to find prices on Mercedes European website that show the base price of the E320CDI is the equivalent of about $1,200 less than the E320 gas. We'll see if that holds true for the US version.

alley22 · March 2004

Does anyone have any advise on whether I should purchase a left over 2003 E500 with 20 miles (considered a new car) for $51,000? MSRP was around $58,000. It includes the CD changer and better sound system. Or would you recommend waiting for the E320 CDI? I hope to keep my next Mercedes as long as possible, but do not want to pay much more than $50 grand. Thanks,

mbukukanyau · March 2004

Its totally appropriate to mention the STS in the same light as the E class. They are obviously competitors though I think the E has an edge over the STS, Cadillac has made good effort and needs to be uploaded.

Putting them next to each other illustrates that Cadillac is really not inferior. And judging from the XLRs pricing, I do not think the STS will be very far off from the E in price.
That being said, MB obviously has a huge head start in this market in terms of established reputation, but in 10 years, that might not be the case if Cadillac and Lexus maintain their momentum. As it is Cadillac is ranked higher in quality than either MB or BMW, and that is a good start.

rickrover · March 2004

I think the E320 CDI would be the perfect long term car. Does anyone know if the E320 CDI will be available in wagon form?

I bought an 03 Jetta TDI (Diesel) wagon last year as a kind of beater mainly to see what a modern diesel is like to live with on a daily basis. Bottom line this little TDI has turned me into a huge fan of diesels. Now I'm ready to ditch my X5 for an E Class diesel - preferably a wagon.

habitat1 · March 2004

That sounds like a very good price on a new 2003 E500. But I'm almost suspicious of why a 2003 that's been sitting around presumably since last September/October only has 20 miles on it. Obviously not used as a demo and now 6+ months old and nearly 2 model years old (the 320CDI is labeled a 2005 model).

I am a bit biased towards the E320 CDI only because it carries the reputation of past Mercedes diesels that seem to last forever. I'm sure the E500 would be more sporting, but if it's sport I'm going after, I'd go with a 545i 6-speed over the E500, even in spite of my dislike for the new 5-series aesthetics.

rickrover · March 2004

There are many high performance diesels in Europe, BMW, VW and Mercedes all have high performance diesels that are capable of giving any gas engine a run. In fact, Mercedes put the first diesel in one of their AMG's this year - the AMG version of the C230 Coupe has a high performance diesel engine. The reason we don't see more of these engines in the U.S. is because of the high sulfer content of our diesel. Our diesel is mandated to become low sulfer sometime in 2006. Then we may see some of the sweet diesel engines that are available in Europe. My X5 is available with an excellent diesel in Europe. The only other diesel I'm comparing the E Class CDI to is the VW Touareg V10 diesel - it starts at $57k before options.

My Jetta diesel wagon feels like it has a V6 under the hood in everyday driving, all that low end torque is amazing - and it's an automatic. It's an increadable long distance cruiser as well, it's capable of comfortably cruising at 100 and returns close to 40 MPG in everyday, mostly in-town driving.

bobbio56 · March 2004

i am interested in an e500 4matic....i travel from philly to ny and dc alot...i want the speed and comfort of a benz and the 4matic is good for the snow...have you all found these cars to be reliable and how are they in snow....any input here would be greatly apprecited..thanks to all!

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