Honda Civic 2005 and earlier

devore · February 2002

You're calling your new car a "lemon" because there's something wrong with the front power window? It sucks that it busted, and was fixed, and broke again, but that's hardly enough to call something a lemo.

Either it's an incredible conincidence or there's something legitimately wrong with the window. I'm sure the dealer will fix it. If it's something they haven't seen before, it may take more than one try.

Certainly this is frustrating, but I wouldn't think a broken power window would cause you to think the car's a lemon... did you buy the car for the power windows?

claywaterfill · February 2002

That does suck about the window. However, had he bought an Elantra and the EXACT same thing happened, people would be saying it is a lemon!

readytobuy: I don't think they will build enough Corollas to overtake Civic--unless Civic sales fall off or something.

seminole_kev · February 2002

true. Toyotas and Hondas are given a lot more leeway before they're called lemons. Normally if it's a Honda or Toyota with a problem, well "it must be fluke". But if it happens to just about any other brand "see I told you they were junk!".

By the way, I don't think the window problem makes that Civic a lemon though.

sobers · February 2002

Readytobuy8
Its good that your wife likes the Corolla. Give her the Corolla! It has non-idependent suspension from MY2003 & dumb/numb steering! Prev Corolla with independant suspension was tested to have 56mph in Slalom! with these changes I guess it will be good for 52!! :-))

seminole_kev(claywaterfill)
It is called reputation & reputation is achieved by TOTAL QUALITY CONTROL which Honda/Toyota have in spades. Even other [non-permissible content removed] companies except Nissan maybe CANNOT match Honda/Toyota in quality department & that is truth!

seminole_kev · February 2002

Honda and Toyota rule the world. Good products, and I've owned a few, I just don't know why I wasn't brainwashed like you were. Maybe I didn't press a button on the dash or something.....

dtownfb · February 2002

It will be hard for the Corolla to beat out the Civic since they are only building 250,000 units. The Civic sold what? 350,000 last year.

remember Toyota is using the Matrix (or Vibe) to attract the younger buyers.

claywaterfill · February 2002

First, the sales fugures are what I was talking about. Unless the 2003 Corolla blows up and they run double time to increase production, they just won't make enough to overtake the Civic.

Secondly, the brochure says they have a rear beam suspension; but, when I went to look at them, the window sticker said they had 4 wheel independent suspensions. I thought that was too strange, so I called Toyota and they confirmed the sticker.

I do agree that Hondas and Toyotas are given much more leeway on quality control issues. But, I do not think a faulty window makes a lemon, either.

seminole_kev · February 2002

according to Toyota's own site the new Corolla's supension setup consists of:

"Independent MacPherson strut front, torsion beam rear suspension with front and rear stabilizer bars"

Doesn't sound like an independent rear to me.

dtownfb · February 2002

250,000 is all Toyota plans to sell...Period. You can't increase production if you don't have the parts for it. they will make up the difference with the Vibe.

Could they sell more if they could make more? I don't know. I haven't driven the new corolla..or any Corolla. I can't fit behind the wheels. I have long legs (6'4" 35 inseam).

mralan · February 2002

I created a post titled "Which auto maker makes the best manual tranny". Honda received many votes. Then, I posted a question comparing the Civic to the Accord's manual tranny, but didn't get a response. So, I decided to take my question to the source ... Civic owners. Do you agree Honda has the "best feel" for manual shifters? Also, how does the feel of the Civic tranny compare to the Accord's?

lngtonge18 · February 2002

The sticker is not lying to you. A torsion beam suspension may not provide the best suspension geometry in extreme handling manuevers, but it is considered independent depending on how it is set up. Nissan's beam axle is considered rigid, but Toyota's and Chrysler's torsion beam and VW's twist beam are considered independent. Each wheel moves independently over bumps through the use of flexible arms and a flexible cross car beam (thus the name twist beam or torsion beam), so they are classified as independent. There is nothing wrong with this design. VW has been using it for years and other then the soft shock settings they have put on their cars, they are known for excellent handling and steering.

patrickmilw · February 2002

Yesterday I stopped at a stereo place (good rep, in business 25 years). They recommended a Pioneer MOFSET 50 (modelDEHP4400) which pushes out 50w x 4. Also Pioneer speakers for door and rear. Total estimate $600. Has anyone else put in new sound? Does the above sound about right? Too much? Not enough? Thanks.

PS: Tomorrow, Monday, I plan to go to the dealer to work on the deal to trade the 96 Accord for a new Civic EX.

toyo_z · February 2002

Hi, forgive me if a discussion is already going on about this elsewhere.

The article about the 2003 Civic Hybrid was intriguing, but I saw no mention of availability of the new car. Anyone have an idea about Honda's prodcution schedule, and when we can expect to see the hybrid in local showrooms?

I can't wait to check it out.

rfruth · February 2002

The Civic hybrid was released for sale in Japan last fall it is due in the U.S. this spring can hardy wait myself http://www.hondanews.com/forms/events/index.html?kw=2003+civic+hybrid I currently have a plain ole gas powered Civic hatchback (5 speed manual) and am quite pleased with it, the transmission is sure & smooth.

rfruth · February 2002

Didn't know a Edmunds first drive review of the Civic hybrid was available or would have posted it http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/49260/article.html - what isn't mentioned is saving oil means we import less.

jrct9454 · February 2002

...for the Civic Hybrid. Local dealer says mid-April, with no allocations as yet. He's to call me as soon as more info develops on price and availability.

sobers · February 2002

250,000 corolla sales include 10-12% sales to Fleet/Rental companies. Also it is sold with hefty rebates under "Chevy Prism" name.

Civic Hybrid is supposed to have "2000 per month" sales pace according to Honda

Corolla has NEVEN been able to compete with Civic on overall product appeal for last 12 years, I do not think that happpening anytime soon!

On the other Hand Civic would cross 350K with the 15000 new Sis & 12K more Hybrids

jrct9454 · February 2002

...while I'm waiting for the Civic Hybrid, I just drove a 2003 Corolla today, and in my very experienced opinion, it beats the current Civic in just about every department: more room, better ride, quieter, lower price, quicker, and comparable EPA numbers on the LE Corolla vs the EX Civic. Given the enormous price difference [I can get a well-equipped LE automatic with everything I need for a street price of around $16k, including ABS] between this car and the Civic Hybrid, which I think will retail between $20-$21k with the CVT, it would take me about 30 years to make up the difference. I'm still planning on trying the Hybrid before making a final decision, but today's test sure was an eye-opener...

rfruth · February 2002

Heard (but can't find a link) that Honda's sales goal (which also happens to be the break even point per Honda) for the Civic hybrid is 50,000 vehicles per year in the U.S. thats about 4200 per month. Anyway as most everyone here knows it's more than just a matter of how long it will take to recoup the money if a hybrid, gasoline is subsidized and its really costing us + who knows what tax credits etc a hybrid might qualify for http://www.edmunds.com/news/feature/general/49240/article.html nothing wrong with Toyota but I'd consider the Prius.

rfruth · February 2002

Might recoup the extra $$$ spent on a hybrid pretty quick if something like this http://www.evworld.com/databases/shownews.cfm?pageid=news050202-05&category1=evcommunity goes through.

jehobbs · February 2002

I would like to replace my current car in a year or so and the standard Civic and the Civic Hybrid are possibitlies, especially if that Hybrid tax credit makes it through. But I didn't know until I sharpened and figured it out just how long it would take to make up the initial cost in fuel savings!

Compairing 37mpg (EX -manual) to 50mpg (out-of-rear estimate for hybrid) and assuming $3000 cost difference and $1.50 / gallon for gas you would have to drive 284,000 miles to make up the initial $3000! And that doesn't include interest.

I thought the difference might be made up after 150,000 miles or so. I was supprised. 'Course its not such a big deal if the gas and emissions you save is worth more to you than just the money you would save in gas. This was a suprise to me.

sobers · February 2002

It is amazhing how we cannot think in a global fashion. The gasoline REAL cost to Federal Govt is around 4 BUCKS It is heaviliy subsidized by the Feds to promote travels/auto industry & economy etc. So the cost of gasoline to the USA is $4 PER GALLON & NOT $1.50 as you guys are saying!! Now calculate how much a Hybrid vehicles saves USA's dependance on the axis of 'evil' oil!! :-))

mudd4 · February 2002

Hi, I have a 98 civic lx and was going to change the oil myself soon for the first time. I went to Newhondaparts.com to order my filter. It seems that they offer different size filters for the 98 civic lx. Some are 82mm H & 84mm W. Another is 75mm H & 84mm W. Another is 80mm H by 84mm W. Does it matter what I get? After all, it says they are for the 98 civic lx/dx/cx.

Are they a good place to order from? Anywhere else recommended?

Thanks

dtownfb · February 2002

Call your nearest honda dealer and ask for the part number. or check the back of the manual for a part number. Or go to the nearest Autozone, Parts America, etc to get the filter.

good luck.

readytobuy8 · February 2002

How did you come up with that price of 4.00 per gallon?

carguy62 · February 2002

I also did a quick calculation and I came up with something like >300 fill ups until you break even. Maybe I did something wrong, though. Either way, I don't think people are buying these to save money, they are buying them (or will be) to do their little part. Supposedly if the Civic Hybrid does well they will expand the technology to other models, with the CR-V next.

Unfortunately I couldn't wait. Maybe next time.

sobers · February 2002

with all the processing costs etc. You can check the countries which do not subsidize the gas, they have a rate of 3.75$ per gallon (that too is a subsidized rate) example : UK/India etc

So when you say 399 fillups etc you are thinking just about YOU & not what you could save for your country.

dtownfb · February 2002

Kind of rough when you describe someone who drives a Honda civic as beign selfish. What does the Civic get with an auto....30 city/ 38 hwy??? Not too bad if you ask me. If they were driivng Ford Excursion then maybe your argument might have value.

I still don't understnad how you justify $3.75 as the "unsubsidized" price of gas. I pay $0.99-$1.03 for regular gas. About 30-40% of that is tax. Tax that goes to highway improvements, maintenance, road cnstruction, etc. So you are telling me the at the government is artificially lowering the price of gas then taxing me to pay for interstate highway improvement, etc.?

carguy62: your calcultions are probalby accurate. this is one of the problems with the hybrid technology, the initial cost is expensive for the conumer. But the Civic Hybrid is the most promising to date. I imagine in a few years it will be only $1000 more then conventional cars thus making it a viable option.

sobers · February 2002

I am not talking about sopecifically Civic owners but about the mentality with respect to fuel economy. Most us consumers are not aware what 'ACTUAL' price of gas is. What you pay is Federal susidized price. If feds get out of this subsidy it would cost more than $3.60 per Gallon

Ofcourse your point is well-taken about 30-38 mpg of Civic. I was rather talking about fule saving mentality "it would take 28,000 miles to justify the expense" I would rather like to see Govt giving Hybrid owners/manufactureres some cash incentive for the price of fuel saved. 60% of us oil comes from Arab countries. Menas evry time you fill up the tank 60% of $$ is going to the Arab regime!!!

sobers · February 2002

60% of your bill & Federal money

sobers · February 2002

the Axis of Evil & on the other hand keep buying loads of oil from them & support their regimes is not going to help long term!

If Irak/Iran start doing OIL business with USA for a great price US Govt would forget about how bad Saddam's regime is & all that. It all boils down to the BIG oil business & dependence on the arabs for oil.

Nature has balanced the supply & demand wouldn't you say ?? :-))

pat · February 2002

In case some of you haven't caught up with this article, there is a link to it under "Helpful Links" on the left sidebar of this page.

Read it, think about, enjoy it - and talk about it here if you like. But please be careful not to get too deeply into some of the political issues that are beginning to crop up here. There are more appropriate places on the News and Views board for that sort of thing.

Thanks!

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

2001civicowner · February 2002

Give me some kind of proof and not hearsay that the government would pay to subsidize our gas. I don't believe you...I've never heard anything like this before. You may be basing it on the fact that in Europe you pay alot more. Well, there are alot of reasons for this, none being that the US pays for half your gas.

European cities are much smaller than US cities. The governments charge gargantuan taxes to cut back on cars on the road.

What may be confusing, is that they measure gas in leiters, not gallons. It may sound like they pay alot more than they do.

You may be hearing about the price of a barrel of oil. This price is definately 4 dollars or more,
and is how you by oil from major dist...They measure in barrels, not gallons.

Find me some proof that the government pays for my gas and then taxes me again for it. I'm quite interested.
-Ryan-

slider_crank · February 2002

This is for 2001civicowner:

Read http://www.icta.org/projects/trans/rlprexsm.htm

Government subsidy does not necessarily mean outright payment to the oil company.

And Europeans do pay more for gasoline than we do, no matter measured in gallon or in liter.

slider_crank · February 2002

No one has been able to tell me what function does that little bulb in the current gen. Civic headlight, between the main light and the blinker, have. As far as I can tell, it doesn't have any functional or regulatory purpose. Anyone has any idea?

pj23 · February 2002

At the risk of going completely off-topic with this...

Yes, who among us knew the following contributed to the real price of gas:

"...travel delays due to road congestion ($46.5 to $174.6 billion), uncompensated damages caused by car accidents ($18.3 to $77.2 billion), subsidized parking ($108.7 to $199.3 billion), and insurance losses due to automobile-related climate change ($12.9 billion)."
See, www.icta.org/projects/trans/rlprexsm.htm.

I'd love to quote more of that "report" here, but I'll let everyone read it for themselves, and I suggest that you do. While it is a fair statement to say that the federal government subsidizes the domestic oil industry with tax incentives and credits, the conlusions this "report" makes are completely unfounded. The arguments are extremely tenuous at best. It attempts to add to the "real" price of gasoline everything from defense spending to damage to buildings. No support is offered for where many of these numbers come from and how they are linked to the "real" price of gasoline, other than vague references to researchers. Every paragraph starts with an assertion and then throws numbers at the reader as if the numbers validate the assertion, which they don't.

sobers · February 2002

THAT YOU ARE THINKING OF JUST YOURSELEVS when you say it takes 284K miles or 300 fillups to justify cost of Hybrids. It would save tons of money to Fed & also American dependence on the 'evil' things in life.

When rest of the world says that Americans are "least informed" about the world they are of course joulous etc but they are not completely wrong!!

Detroit would be better to spend money on fule saving technology than to hire attorneys & buy out law-makers to stop 35mpg by 2013 suggested by Senator John Kerry

carguy62 · February 2002

I mentioned the >300 fill ups and I believe I said "until you break even". You are assuming it is the same as "justifying the cost". That's not how I view it.

carguy62 · February 2002

I have a new CR-V and I think it has the same lights as the Civic. In my owners' manual they refer to that little light as a "parking light". I have yet to walk around the vehicle when the lights are on so I can't confirm what it does.

jjpcat · February 2002

I have a friend who has a 92 Civic LX. Her car just broke down because of the ditribitor problem. She was told the bearing of the distributor got worn out and thus cause the over heat of the distributor. Anyone had the similiar problem? Any estimation on how much it cost to get it replaced?

Is there any sign before distributor bails out? I think my question is how do I know the mechanic was tell the truth?

lngtonge18 · February 2002

This is a VERY common problem on all early 90's Hondas, but the Accord and Civic were the ones most effected by it. The bearing in the distributor tends to freeze up and cause it to fail. You cannot just replace the bearing. You must replace the whole distributor at a cost of about $400. My mom's 92 Accord had the same exact problem. The bearing doesn't give much warning before completely failing. With the Accord, it stalled at a stoplight after getting off the highway. She was able to restart it but it would not stay running without the help of the gas pedal. She got it to work and after she shut it off, it refused to restart. It failed with around 90k miles.

rogeryung · February 2002

Can someone please tell me what is the best place to order honda OEM parts, specifically oil filters. I just paid $7.98 for a filter and washer at my local honda dealer.

Thanks

dmacneill · February 2002

Since every lobbying organization has an agenda, it is interesting to see what the agenda of the CTA is. The following is a quote from their web site:

"Using legal petitions, comments and litigation CTA is at the forefront of the battles to limit genetic engineering, halt the patenting of life, defend the integrity of organic food, halt the use of the combustion engine, stop the use of ozone depleting technologies, protect animals from abuse in research and in agriculture, and halt deforestation."

pat · February 2002

This is the end of the gas arguments - this conversation simply does not belong in this discussion. This is such a volatile and totally off-topic debate that it needs to stop before things get completely out of hand.

There are some discussions underway on our News and Views board where some of these thoughts and feelings would fit - please check them out.

Otherwise, let's remember that the Town Hall is in no way a political forum and these kinds of arguments just don't belong here.

Thanks for your understanding.

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

patrickmilw · February 2002

FYI on expected cost of a new 2002 Civic EX. After weeks of driving and thinking I chose the Civic EX over the Protege LX (details on the Comparison board, Civic,Pro,Sentra). But I thought I would pass on info on what I paid.

First, be sure to get online quotes via autobytel, cars.com, etc. And be sure to print them off and take them with you to the dealer. The quotes I received were significantly less than the TMV here on Edmunds. The TMV here was about $400 Over invoice but I paid about $200 UNDER invoice and that included the destination charge.

bostont · February 2002

That's a really great price. I paid invoice that included destination. I probably could have saved by going all the way to Phoenix, but I didn't want to go that far so stayed closer to home, it's 100 miles down there. I really like the dealership and the people were top notch, even introduced me to the service people.

blong95 · February 2002

I have been looking at 5 speed 2003 Toyota Corolla S, Matrix and 2002 Honda Civic LX Sedans and LX Coupes. All test drove well. Just wanted to know of any problems or feedback with reliability comparisons between the mentioned Toyota and Honda models that I am looking into.
I have read articles complaining of rattles and sqeaks on new Hondas. My Honda test drive was only 2.5 miles since the car was low on gas and the salesperson said that was all the farther we could go. I couldn't even get it out of 3rd gear since the test drive was through a housing community !! Do the Hondas seem to have any components that seem to wear out fast (i.e. clutches, alternators, brakes, etc.) Thanks for any advice.

dabimmer · February 2002

Many times I park my 2002 EX in the garage and when I go to use it next the doors
are locked, and I didn't lock them. Does anyone know if the doors automatically lock?
Can this be de-programmed? What is up? This doesn't happen 100% of the time but at
least 95% of the time.

cwliang · February 2002

blong95 - I've heard that the stock tires on the Civics wear out pretty quickly, but I'm only at 2,300 miles myself. But some people I've heard say the tires run out around 10-15k mi and a lot of people trade the tires for some better ones right off the bat, anyway. Aside from some rattling, my '02 EX 4dr (auto) has been great, and recently (as it's been getting warmer here) the rattling has not been as apparent.

As for the automatic locks, if you use the remote entry unlocker to unlock the doors but then never open the door, it locks itself after 10 or so seconds. I don't know if the car has a tendency of locking itself, because I park outside and always lock it when I leave.

jrct9454 · February 2002

Every time this has happened in our garage with the Accord we own, it is attributable to the remote in my pocket getting mashed when I sit down or shift around in my living room chair. I've been known to set off the panic alarm in this fashion, which because the garage is next to our living room, gets instant attention. Don't know if this applies in your case, but this happens at least a couple of times a month around here...the locking button on the remote is large enough that it doesn't take much to send the lock signal to the car. And because it uses radio waves, not infrared, it goes right through walls...

Honda Civic 2005 and earlier

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