Honda Civic 2005 and earlier

isellhondas · February 2001

But...a few years ago, I read an article in some auto related magazine that clearly cited longer stopping distance on DRY payment.

But...who knows? Like I said I can take them or leave them. I try to drive in a manner where I don't need to rely on them in the first place.

Still, if I'm driving in the snow or ice (rare in Seattle) I'ld rather have ABS than not.

justin · February 2001

You hit the nail on the head with your statement:

"What I was referring to was not an "expert" opinion. It was just simply an article stating the cold, hard data of a test."

Key term there being, A test, not THE test. There are many tests, and the one you read obviously supports your opinion. ISELLHONDAS is also correct, as am I, that some tests, (including my personal ones, which are really the only ones that matter to me), show that non-ABS works better on dry pavement. ABS is certainly great on wet pavement. That said - I'll take an ABS car vs. non ABS car anyday.

vadp · February 2001

I don't know if it ever crossed your mind, the ABS technology is being constantly developed as any other component.
The ABS developed and installed in the cars few years ago are using completely different hardware and software than the 2001 models.
The modern systems are way more effective. They are faster, smarter and quieter.
And cheaper too.
The modern ABS is clearly superior in the wet and DRY conditions.

justin · February 2001

I agree. Current Tech ABS is certainly superior - to the old ABS systems.

One thing I don't understand. Why don't all cars have disc brakes all around? The discs are easierr to repair, and seem like they should be cheaper and easier to install. Why are drum brakes still around? I know they are cheaper - but why?

vadp · February 2001

All I can say is that the caliper assembly and the rotor itself require more precision in its manufacturing, design and better materials than the drum assembly. Don't have any specific info on costs.

Also, check out this side:

http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/editorial/tech/brakes.html

gt200002879 · February 2001

I just got a CD player for a 01 civic LX. Accoding to the installation manual I am supposed to pry out on the lower cover to release 6 retaining clips. I don't want to damage or break any clips and introduce noise in there. Does anyone have experience on doing this. Any suggestions or comments? It is not very obvious where to pry out. Do I put a flat screwdriver in the crack around the cover and push out? Thanks.

lngtonge18 · February 2001

All I'm gonna ask is, have you ever actually taken your old non-ABS car and measured its distance to stop and than taken your ABS equipped one and did the same exact test? Didn't think so. What you are referring to is mere "personal feelings and judgement" not real facts gathered by a real "test". What may seem to work better to you may not actually be true as you have no basis for measurement. I would be willing to accept what professional drivers have measured over a "personal judgement" anyday. You also can't compare the braking systems of 2 completely different cars. It's very possible that your old non-ABS car simply had more powerful brakes compared to your new ABS equipped one. Just because its new doesn't mean its better. I think that the whole screeching to a stop gives the impression of stopping faster since you don't hear that with ABS. Anyway, I am done ranting about ABS, LOL.

justin · February 2001

Glad your done ranting. Arguing someone else's personal experience really doesn't make much sense....

f6biker · February 2001

GT200002879 - I did the install on the CD player. The only thing that might happen, it happened to me, is that the clips can break if you don't get them off correctly. They cost .16 cents each so no big deal except ordering them. I bought 10 for garage stock since they use them all over the car.

No squeaks at all after install. Good luck.

coupe2001 · February 2001

I just installed that CD in my wife's civic a month ago. Easy as pie. The lower cover you are refering to is soft material and won't require much effort to remove. Use a wide tip screw driver and you won't cause any scratches. Armor all on your interior will provide more protection also.

On ABS, I swore by it yesterday. Toke a curved exit at 75 MPH in my new Celica, got around the corner and traffic was at a stand still. (A semi-truck had gone over the side railing) Nailed the brakes, and she stopped beautifully. Had I not had ABS, my car probably would have skided sideways and caused another accident. I am definitely safer with ABS brakes.

coupe2001 · February 2001

anyone have address and phone numbers of Honda.
I'm having a problem getting my Civic's fuel gauge reading fixed. They replaced fuel float, no fix, now the service manager says wait for TSB. Has been 3 months and no fix. I want to file a complaint with Honda.

zipp27 · February 2001

TEST DROVE A NEW HONDA CIVIC AND THE RIDE WAS A LOT HARDER THAN THE 98 I HAVE. THE DEALER SAID THE WISHBONE SUSPENSION ON THE FRONT END WAS DISCONTINUED TO SAVE MONEY. THE INTERIOR ALSO LOOKED CHEAPER INCLUDING THE RADIO AND HEATER CONTROLS. WHAT IS WITH THIS PCM PROBLEM. I WOULD LIKE TO UPGRADE TO A HONDA ACCORD. IS THAT MODEL ALSO HAVING A PCM PROBLEM?. LOOKING TO BUY A ERROR FREE CAR IF POSSIBLE. ANY SUGGESTIONS OR FEED BACK

scottintx · February 2001

I took my 2001 Civic EX Sedan in today to get the PCM fixed because of the recall on them. When they placed the "first" new PCM in (notice I said first), all of a sudden the check engine light went on and the shop computer indicated that my Oxygen Sensor was malfunctioning. I had no indication of it until this point. No check engine light...nothing. The dealer then put in a second PCM to see if the first new PCM they put in was faulty. Well, low and behold the same thing happened. Check engine light and a faulty read on the Oxygen Sensor. The irony is that I took in my car to get a computer fixed that was recalled and found out that something was actually wrong with my car that the original computer wasn't telling me about. What a nut roll. We'll see what tomorrow brings...they had to order the part. Anyone with a similar story?

lngtonge18 · February 2001

Good luck with getting a response from Honda. They probably won't really care that you are filing a complaint. They are one of the hardest companies to deal with because of the ego that their cars are the best around. My sister has had multiple problems with her 2000 Odyssey and has had big time trouble getting Honda to do anything about it. Honda does not return her phone calls and she is forwarded to different customer reps so that the guy assigned to her case doesn't have to deal with her. She started the lemon process and has been run in circles for the past 3 months with nothing accomplished yet. Her van is the biggest POS I have ever seen. It's been in the shop for about a month out of the 12 months she has owned it, with visits totaling around 25. It really hurt my family's perspective on Honda quality and has probably lost us as future customers (her van was the 5th Honda product bought by someone in my family). If anyone in here considers the Odyssey, do NOT get the power doors. She has had nonstop problems with the damn things and hates them. More hassle than they are helpful. Anyway, I can see about getting some numbers for you as I'm sure she knows them all by heart now.

justin · February 2001

Honda is not known for it's great, or even adequate, customer service. Frankly, they are pompous a****les that think they have the product that the world can't live without. I hope that my car never needs that much work. I must say that the first impression I got from my dealers service department and my advisor was quite pleasant. Hope my impression stays that way...

I know a few families with Honda vans that are prone to having "issues"....

coupe2001 · February 2001

Thanks Ingtonge18!

I need to start getting my problems in writing, if I am to go ahead with lemon law. The dealer has tried one fix, and is refusing to look at it again. I must say he has met his match. Our car will be fixed or Honda will buy it back.

gasguzz · February 2001

It's amazing what the Honda dealers are capable of. Well, I knew of the Honda "customer service" even before we drove into the lot. Afterall, I didn't buy a Hon to be friends with the dealer. And sure enough, would you believe they literally just handed me the keys at the finance office. Even the wife was shocked, but expected it. Wow, what a reputation. Guess what grade they got on the factory customer satisfaction survey. I have never experienced this dealer attitude in any new car we've bought.
Good luck.

mpgman · February 2001

What kind of mileage can I expect with the Accord 4 cylinder engines, both the non-VTEC DX and the VTEC with auto and 5 speed? Will it be right around the EPA 23/30, better or worse? I drive for economy with a light foot, but will cruise around 70-75 on the interstate. Trying to decide if there is a huge savings in mileage between the Accord and Civic EX. Thanks.

isellhondas · February 2001

I'm always unhappy to hear of bad attitudes and/or bad service from a Honda dealer.

There is no excuse for it.

Still...I do have to wonder what their comments of you as a customer would be?

But, no matter what they thought of you. They should be completely professional in their dealings.

I know I have had customers (I can count them on one hand) that I ended up despising in the end. They were either nasty, rude, or lied to me.

But, I didn't let that stop me from treating them in a professional manner.

Just part of the business.

gasguzz · February 2001

I have subordinates at work - I treat them the way I would like them to treat me. Did I give the Honda dealer a reason to treat me indifferently, absolutely not. I wasn't even proposing a ridiculous offer.
They sell other makes too. Hmmm... they had an attitude on the Odyssey, but not on the Chrys-Voyager or G-Caravan. I wondered about that, and went somewhere else.

rls9 · February 2001

I plan on buying the EX Sedan (actually ordering it if I can) and I want to have the cassette player and the in dash cd changer, if possible. I see that a lot of people are installing these items themselves. What exactly are you installing? Is it the same equipment the dealer would have installed or did you go buy a JVC cd player (for instance)and install that? If you installed the same equipment that the dealer would have put in, where did you get it? If you got it from the dealer was it part of the price you paid for the car or did you buy it separately?

Thanks again for the help and advice this town hall has given me!

gasguzz · February 2001

The standard head unit for the EX should be the AM/FM Single-CD player. The Honda option would then be the cassette player or the CD-Changer (in-dash/underseat?).
What is the outcome you are looking for...
The factory option is the simplest/cleanest install, but the most expensive. It is also limited in features and technology.
Aftermarket can give you more choices on power and future expansion, is cheaper on the average, but can be a more complicated install. You also have to deal with the keyless-entry/welcome-light feature.
I think if you browse this thread you can find internet dealers for Honda accessories at lower cost.
Of course, if you address all these at time of purchase, you may also get a good deal. Shop around and compare the numbers.
Good luck.

oops13 · February 2001

Gassguzz, what does the radio have to do with the keyless entry on the 2001 models? I know that in the past the radio was the receiver for the Keyless entry system, but that is no longer the case. If I'm not mistaken '98 was the last year for that. RLS9, If you want to stay with OE stereo components then I suggest that you look at these web sites. www.hparts.com www.partscheap.com & honda-accessories.com I found these sites to have good prices. Even if you don't buy through them it will at least give you an idea of what the items cost and give you a basis for negotiating with your dealer. Crutchfield.com is my personal choice for aftermarket as they give you a quality installation kit (not those cheap plastic universal kits that you get at the local discount store) and good instructions with the purchase of a head unit. They also generally include at no extra cost the harness to plug directly into your car's wiring sytem so that you do not have to cut and splice the factory harness in your new car. My dealer wanted an outrageous mark-up for any accessories or upgrades. They wanted $720 to put in the 6 disc in-dash changer, and they really tried to convince me that that was a good deal. I can buy some serious quality equip. for that kind of change. Needless to say, I did not get the 6 disc in dash changer.

gt200002879 · February 2001

Thanks for the info on the CD installation. It went smoothly. I got it from http://www.handa-accessories.com/. So far the LX 2001 manual is OK. My dealer experience was so-so. I offered 14K and they came back with 14,012 which as I undestand is the invoice. Right before signing the salesperson comes back, claims he made a mistake and that the price cannot be less that 14,420 which is the AAA price (invoice + 3%). I was going to leave when eventually they said they will honor what they mentioned first. They made me feel that I was stealing the car but someone on this list bought the same car for 13,600. The second issue was the finance person. For some reason I was pursuaded to get this lo-jack. He brought out all sort of statistics, tables, newspaper clips that honda is the no 1 stolen vehicle. I started wondering why I wanted to buy it. Later, a friend told me great, why do you have comprehensive insurance for? He is probably right.

mdriver · February 2001

You were persuaded to get Lojack "for some reason". The reason is you. You are buying a Civic not a $40k BMW. Lojack will probably cost you more than your insurance deductible.

gt200002879 · February 2001

You are right. It is just that I was not prepared for that onslaught. I thought I closed the deal and let my guard down. They say he who has no brains has legs or perhaps in this case pockets.

rfiglia · February 2001

Hi ,hoping to get some good advice here. My wife and I are planning and buying a 2001 Civic LX manual this week I. keep seeing all these problems posted here like the radio ,PCM , and fuel gauge problems. Are these problems occurring in the EX model only or all models? The car we want has the cassette player not the cd player. Also how is the sound system quality?Has anybody here that has a LX maunual have anything good to say ? We want to purchase the Honda because of past reliability history. Is it a bad idea to buy the car in its first year of production? Also we are paying cash for the car , what would be a good starting price we offer to the dealer , I saw someone here got one for 13,600,was that after or before tax and destination?The sticker price here at our dealer on Long Island is 15,400 before tax.Carsdirect.com says they can get it for $13912 plus tax. Any info on these matters would be great. Thanks.....

scottintx · February 2001

PCM et al...Part II
Well it turns out that my original PCM was fine and that the dealership did not check to see if my car needed a new one by looking at my cars vin number. Apparently, older 2001 Civics were manuafactured with the corrected PCM and radio. As a result, if you bought a 2001 Civic in late 2000, you may not have a PCM or radio problem. Honda will notify you if your car requires an update. How does Honda know where to find you? For one, your dealer "should have" forarded your info to them at sale time. To ensure, Honda knows who and where you are, I suggest going to the Honda.com website. Under E-Honda and then owners, you can e-register your car. As a result, Honda will be able to send future recall notices directly to you. Here's hoping there are none.

gasguzz · February 2001

Does the Carsdirect price include destination? Negotiations in price usually don't include tax and registration. From a baseline, invoice price for a Honda is already at a good deal. Make them at least match Carsdirect (or you need to come up with a number you're willing to accept).
Your choice of exterior color will also be a factor. So will be stock quantity, month of the year, day of the week, and you never know what the sales manager's order-of-the-day is. There is no system for you to know what the dealer's sales strategy and real numbers are.
Watch out for "Doc Fees" (they've always accepted my offer of $99.00) - remember, you also have to make a reasonable offer. Cash or a pre-approved loan makes no difference, as the dealer always gets "paid-in-full" at the end of the day (it's only a matter of who pays them).
For your reference, I paid $14,420 (plus tax and reg) for my 2000 Teal 4dr-LX Auto.
Good luck.

gt200002879 · February 2001

rfiglia, I got the 2001 LX manual at $14,012 plus tax. Also note the car is green. Metallic paint may cost you some extra. The dealer threw in a set of floormats. It had the casssette only but I just added the single cd myself. The sound system is fine. The heating system is great, the car gets warm right away, although the temperature has been around freezing for a long time around here in the northeast. Have not checked the air as yet. I could have used a little more space for "stuff" around the driver's seat. Not much space to store a few cassettes or cds. The engine is very smooth and responsive. Has always started right away at single digit temperatures. The kids in the back have more space than in my previous VW Golf. The only negatives I can find is a sticky shift (although my wife does not mind) and I think that the sheet metal (or whatever material it is) is rather thin especially behind the rear wheels. I would advice rear madflaps to cut down on splashing noise during rainy days. From the other hand antenna built in the rear window, automatic door locks and automatic window opener are nice for a basic car.

mdriver · February 2001

What do you mean "sticky shift" ? How do you like the handling given the tall profile tires on the LX ?

I am considering a 5sp LX coupe. I was considering the EX, but the mandatory sunroof is just to low. Headroom is actually worse in the 01 than in than 00 EX.

I hate to come back to the tire issue in the LX again, but only Honda would put such a cheap tire on a midlevel model. Once again, the competition are offering 15" and 16" wheels (alloy on top models), but Honda offers 14" .70 profile tires, which are worse than all other cars except maybe some base level Daewoo. Naturally, Civics come as take-it-or-leave-it optioned models. You cannot get, say, an EX without the sunroof or an LX with ABS. Don't try an order a Civic from the factory, like you can a Focus. Honda does not accept special orders.

Another gripe: Honda sells the totally cool hatchback in the UK and all models appear to come with ABS. Why not make all US Civics with ABS ? Maybe Europeans are more concerned with safety, while Americans tend to be more concerned with sunroofs. Who knows.

Having said some negative comments, the Civic LX is still an improvement in terms of content, considering there was previously no LX coupe. Has anyone put aftermarket alloys on their LX/DXs ? I would suggest a 16" wheel with a .55 profile tire. This combo would then make the LX's handling a step up from the EX's

oldstuff · February 2001

Hi, I recently bought a new Civic LX and have been irritated by a nearly constant "popping" or rattle coming from somewhere in the dash on the passenger side. I havnt had time to get it into the dealership yet but has anyone had a similar problem? if so, was it corrected? thanks,

rkan · February 2001

My assumption is that most of you live in the USA. These prices you paid for 2001 Civics are invaluable, I plan on getting an LX soon. But, what part of the country are you all paying these prices at? Right close to invoice price would be a good targer to shoot for, and being confident that some of you paid these prices in my region of the country would be helpful. So lets hear from all you recent purchasers, where do you live and how much did you pay, others may find it useful also. Thanks.

freefall2000 · February 2001

My 5-speed 97 Civic runs rough for 3 or 4 minutes after start-up, then runs fine. My gas mileage has dropped about 30%. The dealer cannot find anything wrong with it, but put in a set of plugs. This did nothing to alleviate the problem. I have 60K miles on it. Any suggestions?

gasguzz · February 2001

2000 LX.
According to the Honda installation instructions, the storage pocket/bin under the stock head unit is screwed to the radio.
So... What have you guys done to that pocket/bin when you swapped to an aftermarket stereo? How does a Euro-DIN chassis fit into that dash (is it "clean")?
Thanks.

cammanrd · February 2001

I purchased the 2001 civic lx sedan with manual transmission. It came in white. I paid a base price excluding sales tax, license fees, tire fees and doc fees of $12,998. The net cost to me including all the charges mentioned earlier was $14,304.44. This represents the out-the-door final cost to me. I couldn't be much happier with the car. It was purchased on Sunday, Jan. 21 from Honda World Dealership in Downey, CA. The salesman was very courteous and thorough in presenting the orientation of the car at delivery. I emailed him personally and thanked him for the experience. I feel that I've gotten a decent deal on an excellent car. I plan to drive the car until it turns to dust. I plan to maintain the car so that day will be far in the future (hopefully). The car was an "ad car." It was advertised at $12,998 in the Los Angeles Times of Sat. Jan.20. It was one of 5 lxs being offered at that price. I jumped at it, having done much pricing and other research on the internet. Since I was paying cash for it, and not trading anything in, there wasn't much wiggle room left for the dealer. The F&I guy predictably tried to sell extended warranty and different security systems. I begged off on both pitches.

Regarding rfiglia's message: I can only say that I have put on about 1400 miles on the car. The gas mileage is averaging about 33mpg, the car is very comfortable for me although I am only 5'3". However many of those passengers that have ridden with me who are larger and taller tham me have remarked how comfortable the car is. The stereo quality is so-so but that is minor to me. I listen to alot of AM radio anyway. Although I live in Southern California, we are in the middle of our short rainy season and so far it has performed admirably on our slick freeways and surface streets. I cannot imagine it not doing equally well where you live on the Island. I would only suggest that, if possible, you garage the car at night during inclement weather during the fall and winter months for protection. Other than that, I can only say that it seems to provide economical comfortable transportation. Good luck.

jimsxn · February 2001

The Civic is legendary in terms of it being an honest car. It inspires confidence in your interaction with the car. I have a 1998LX which I have taken to the limits some times. It tracks true (with two passengers) even at speeds exceeding 100MPH.

How do the struts behave in front? Has anybody taken it to speed on a winding road?

Thanks

gasguzz · February 2001

Somewhere on this board I recall reading a post on a test being done by a mag (RT/CD).
The 2k1 outperformed the 2k with a faster slalom time. Also, I think, had a faster steering box and a smaller turn radius. So, yes, technically the 7th-Gen handles better.
Haven't yet a SINGLE prob with my 2k though, unlike some 2k1-ers posted here.
Good luck.

jazfrostshade · February 2001

Hi guys!
I am looking into buying a 01 Civic EX. At first I had thought it was a good decision because of Honda's reputation. After reading all the problems people have been having it is kind of making me rethink my decision. I do not plan on buying my car until late April. I do not want to buy it and then regret it soon afterwards. I want a reliable car. The other car I am looking at is a Jetta. Any suggestions? If anyone has any other cars they suggest (years 98-01) that would be great too.
Thanks,
Jazfrostshade

trdrjeff · February 2001

I purchases an '01 EX Sedan in late October. I am currently putting about 3000 miles a month on it. The only problem has been the Radio, although the problem has not re-occired for some time now (knock on wood). Getting about 35 mpg driving 80% hwy. I might have gone with the diesel Jetta if they were avail in california since they get 45 mpg. But we are very happy with our Civic.

datafly · February 2001

I have a 2001 EX Coupe, and I love it. It's my first car, and is substantially more fun to drive than my father's Ford Taurus (no real comparison, I know...), my mother's Toyota Sienna (again, no real competition) and my friend's Ford Escort. I must say, however, that another friend's Ford Focus is about the same as the Civic, and that it is no comparison to another's Mercedes CLK430 and SLK320 (as it should be for ~1/4 and 1/3 the prices:-]). I just love the overall feeling of the car.

I have thrown several small, tight curves at it going in excess of 30MPH and it has yet to flinch. There was some slight body roll, but nothing too major. I cannot compare it to a 6th generation model, however, as I have never driven one.

Somewhere I read something about the suspension on the coupe being slightly more sporting than the sedan version, is this true? If so, I would surmise that the sedan might handle differently from my coupe.

As for there being many posts about 2001 Civic problems, remember that people are more likely to post if they have a problem than they are if they are completely satisfied. I'm sure the majority of 2001 owners are content, but they aren't saying anything because they're out driving their fun little cars.:-]

cheapowner · February 2001

What is the RPM on a 2001 Civic LX auto at 70 MPH? Is 5sp less?

justin · February 2001

Your last statement was right on.

And yes, the Coupe has additional suspension components that help it handle like it does: better than ever!

scottintx · February 2001

Other than the Dealer experience, my Civic experience has been positive overall. I like the cars response and mileage. It is comfortable and surprisingly roomy. The only complaints I have thus far are: (1)the lack of interior storage space;(2) the tinny sound of the radio;(3) the lack of a door lock button on the passenger side for the passenger (Yes the driver has to do it); (4) the lack of an Open Truck Button on the keyless entry. I also own a 2000 Accord EX-V6 and it's radio far superior to the Civic's. However, the Accord was $8000+- more. The Civic is a good choice for a commuter car but not necessarily a family touring Sedan. That is my two sense for what it is worth.

mdriver · February 2001

Your "two sense" doesn't make any sense. It's two cents.

roadrunner90 · February 2001

I bought a 2001 civic ex in the beginning of december. I have not received any recalls for the PCM. I have had radio problems and the dealer replaced the radio. Any reason why I haven't received a recall notice?
Also, dealer ordered a new fuel sensor unit 5 weeks ago b/c my low fuel light goes on with 5 gallons left in tank. Any reason why it still hasn't come in?

rona4 · February 2001

Just bought a new 2001 Civic EX 4-door sedan. So far it's got 550 miles,
mostly highway driving. So far, only 28 MPG consistently (filled up the 2nd
time tonight). Since the car is rated 32/38, this is quite a surprise.

Anyone else had this problem and then found subsequent tanks of gas got better
mileage? I'm guessing this isn't going to get better without some serious
complaining to the dealer. Especially since the gas mileage is the only reason
I picked this car over the much better driving VW Jetta.

mdriver · February 2001

28 mpg seems acceptable assuming you have the automatic. This may rise as the engine accumulates miles, but probably only by a few mpg. You must be one of only a handful of people in the US who bought a car solely on its good mpg numbers. Unless you put lots of miles on your cars, there is little point in saving a few $ by getting only a few more mpg. Interestingly, Jettas are considerably more expensive than Civics, but you were concerned about the hundred or so $ per year that it would have cost you to run the Jetta vs. the Civic.

Which Jetta model were you comparing your Civic to when you said the Jetta drove better. Better in what way? I have driven the Golf 2.0L and must admit that it is much more luxurious in every way. Despite the Golf's extra weight and only 115HP, the engine's torque is noticeable and makes a welcome change from the ear-splitting revs of the Civic. The Golf's 2.0L engine never seems as if its working very hard, although on paper, it is slower than the Civic.

By-the-way, Porsches have struts and no one questions their handling capability.
Also by-the-way, the EPA tests highway fuel economy ratings at about 50 mph. So if you do 75mph, your mileage may fall back close to the city rating. In Europe, they quote mpg at a higher speed (about 75mph as well as about 50mph) and quite often it matches their "city" rating. Only their rating at about 50 mph is noticeably higher

rona4 · February 2001

What I didn't say in my previous message is that a family member works for a
VW parts distribution center, and that through that person
I can get a discount on the Jetta that makes its price basically the same as
the price I paid for my Civic EX ($16,800). Yep, if you work for VW, you can
get a very good discount.

I drove the 1.7 liter, 4 cylinder, non-turbocharged automatic Jetta GLS. It's handling
and ride was much better than the Civic. Tight steering. Nearly no roll in turns.
The feedback and control the car offers to the driver were also
much better. The Civic, and also Accords, I think, have very poor "road feel" through
the steering wheel. The Honda steering is sensitive, but it's also too light to the touch.
Bad points for the Jettas include: no inside-the-trunk escape latch;
a glove compartment that dumps all its contents whenever you open it; flimsy cup holders
that are positioned directly above the radio and temperature control electronics (so if
you spill anything, it's going right into your CD player).

Okay, aside from that, on to the Civic EX gas mileage issue. This is the 6th new car
I've purchased in my life. All the previous cars got mileage within the advertised
top/bottom number range. They got that mileage as soon as I bought them. This
car doesn't even get its rated city mileage when most of the
driving occurs on the highway. I don't think that 28 MPG is adequate when it's advertised
that it gets 32/38. And I'm well aware of how they do the tests. But the same
was true of all the cars I bought previously, so why wasn't their actual highway mpg below
the advertised/rated city mpg? Probably the best argument I've heard about
this so far came from the Honda dealer, who says that the wintertime oxygenated gas here
in New Jersey cuts mileage by as much as 20%. Hmmm.... They could also be just trying
to make me go away without them having to do anything.

Incidentally, we didn't purchase just on the MPG issue (although the Jetta was
rated nearly 10MPG worse than the Civic--wonder how it does on the oxygenated
gas?). Crash test results also played a big factor, with the Jetta and the Civic
being the best in this respect in their class of car. Civic EX 4-door crash
data is slightly better, although the two cars get the same number of
stars for front and side impacts.

Finally, I don't think I'm the only person, or even only one of a handful of car buyers
thinking about gas mileage. Note that Honda, Toyota, and Saturn are or will soon
be marketing high-mileage hybrid engine cars. Meanwhile gas prices continue to rise.
Last Summer, here in NJ they nearly made $2.00/gallon. Don't be surprised if they
go back there this Summer when everyone is driving more. And if you're at all concerned
about the environment, fuel economy has to be a priority.

justin · February 2001

Are you from the U.S.? The Jetta does not offer a 1.7 liter engine in the States.

Honda Civic 2005 and earlier

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