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Honda Civic 2005 and earlier

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Comments

  • mautomauto Member Posts: 75
    Well the Si wasn't out yet and I test drove the Civic in winter when the floppy suspension wasn't quite so floppy. But I admit, I did know about the timing belt cost. Someone earlier said that $600 wasn't bad for 90k miles of driving. True. But you know what's even better than that? $Zero for 90k miles of driving. That's what you get in almost all other small cars today. Why does Honda use a belt and not a chain? It's cheap. The Si is actually a pretty nice car, but Edmunds' own report says that it drives almost the same as any other Civic.

    As far as putting in 160HP in the 05 - no way. Honda has never made those kinds of changes within the same generation. You'll have to wait for 06. But if history is anything to go on, the HP won't be much of an increase. Since 1992, the Civic EX V-TEC engine has gone from 125HP to 127HP in today's 2004 EX. Back in 1992, 125HP was a class leader and the Civic was always the performance benchmark in the economy class. Now the Civic has been Buick-ized for an older customer. Well engineered? Yes. But also underwhelming.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    Someone earlier said that $600 wasn't bad for 90k miles of driving I said that.
    On the scale of things that are going to be need replacement by 90,000 miles, timing belt is miniscule. Add up the oil changes, gas fill ups, tire replacements, brake work, filter replacements and the $600 timing belt charge is nothing. The belt itself is only $20-50, most of the cost is the labor and "recommended" water pump replacement. If the $600 out of $20,000-$25,000 (initial purchase price+Interest+maintenance+replacements/repair+fuel) by the time you reach 90,000 miles is what breaks the bank, then you are in over your head. No one said that owning a new car was cheap.

    If the belt is such a big concern, I am sure you can convert it to timing chain with aftermarket parts. You would just need to get sprokets, and properly sized double linked chain.

    As far as Si's driving dynamics, take one for a test drive. I was sold on the spot. And, by the way, all of K-series engines have timing chain. But, none of the K-series engines can achieve the fuel economy that D-, and B-series (with timing belt) engines enjoy. I don't know if it is due to the chain alone, but it is a fact. So, yes, I will not have the $600 timing belt replacement charge by 90,000 miles, but I will spend $1500 more in gas over the same 90,000 miles.
    Assumptions: D-series engine 40 MPG, K-series engine 30 MPG.(90,000 miles/MPG)x$2.00 gal=$ cost of gas over 90,000 miles.

    Since 1992, the Civic EX V-TEC engine has gone from 125HP to 127HP in today's 2004 EX. Back in 1992, 125HP was a class leader and the Civic was always the performance benchmark in the economy class.
    Yes, but you failed to realize that torque has been increasing with every revision. One does not live by the HP alone. The 1972 Lincoln only had 100 hp, but can do mad burnouts.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    The Civic is starting to get the 2.0L k-series in other parts of the wotld so it's not too unrealistic to think the next US Civic will have it in at least the EX.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    The Civic is starting to get the 2.0L k-series in other parts of the wotld so it's not too unrealistic to think the next US Civic will have it in at least the EX.

    Only if they rebadge it as Si coupe.
  • dalawdalaw Member Posts: 37
    Also remember that scion has a no haggle pricing policy, so be prepared to pay the MSRP. On the other hand, talking to a $2000 discount should not be a problem.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >If the $600 out of $20,000-$25,000 (initial >purchase >price+Interest+maintenance+replacements/repair+fu>el)

    Wouldn't it be better to have just price plus intertest plus maintenance plus replacements WITHOUT a 600$ timing belt every 60, 80, 90K or whatever!!!

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andysandiegoandysandiego Member Posts: 54
    I enjoyed reading dozens of messages, also looked at the Si messages. I put specs, price, etc., of our Civic in my Profile. It's really fun to drive, so far @ 2,000 miles just 27 mpg mixed driving. Service Manager says by 7,500 miles consumption will be better. I put Honda leather wheel cover on, and 20-piece ExoticWood dash (beautiful at $230); I could give tips on installation. Wouldn't mind a bit more exhaust sound; suggestions?

    Which is the better buy, the Si or the factory modified coupe, (a dream for some day)?

    More rear room in our sedan than in the '94 Mercedes C280 it replaces - was eating me up in big maintenance/repair expenses. Civic's only a couple of inches shorter. I like the size of the Civic and it's light weight better than the Accord, not to mention economy.

    Am thinking of installing Falken Azenis Sport 205/50-15s on it, would make speedometer read about 5% fast.

    Just some thoughts,
    AndySanDiego
  • dalawdalaw Member Posts: 37
    Oops I mean the civic shouldn't have a problem getting a discount.
  • andyman73andyman73 Member Posts: 322
    Congrats on the new Civic. I have a '94 with new exhuast on it. I broke the cat last week, and well gotta have that! I went with a new cat-back system. Replaced the factory resonator with a straight through performance type, and a Magnaflow with Dual DTM 3" tips. Pipe is 2" diameter, my mechanic(local Meinicke(SP?) manager, prostreet drag racer who runs nines on all motor at Maple Grove) is an exhuast specialist. Said anything bigger wouldn't make any difference with out heavy mods. The factory pipe on mine was 1.5". It sounds awesome, need to have resonator, or else it may catch the ear of Johnny Law. This is my third Honda with exhuast work. The first was w/o the resonator, through a Scavenger Series II Flowmaster. Quite loud, yet never got me in trouble. Of course if you don't run through town at WOT or in a low gear, should be alright. Maybe being an automatic, yours should be okay, until you hammer it. Anyways, congrats, again, and good luck with your exhuast choice.

    Andy
  • andysandiegoandysandiego Member Posts: 54
    Thanks Andy for exhaust comments. I printed them to digest. I've searched like on Google for "Civic tuning exhaust" and similar but couldn't find anything. So you helped a lot. Guess I'll talk to a Meinecke shop for starters.
  • andyman73andyman73 Member Posts: 322
    I meant to mention that it cost @ $400 lock stock and barrel. It probably would have been closer to 300, but they had to remove and replace the Cat. If you have been doing your homework, you will have seen the prices on performance mufflers associated with the import tuner crowd, arent exactly reasonable. The reason I went with Flowmaster, and Magnaflow, is, they are much better priced,and do carry their own reputation, as well. Anybody who knows about domestic V8s knows those names, as well as Dynomax. I stumbled on this by mistake, while having exhaust repair work done on my '88 CRX Si. That cost only 265 installed, back in '97. Which is cheaper than some of the import tuner name brand mufflers just to purchase! BTW it was a Flowmaster unit. I had a Beemer that I never did, because all I saw were magazine prices, very scary! My local Meinecke carries Flowmaster and Magnaflow, with all the popular style tips and such. Again, I wish you the best with your choice and glad I could finally help out a fellow car lover.

    Andy

    ps. let us know how it all works out for you, thanks.
  • andysandiegoandysandiego Member Posts: 54
    Thanks, again, Andy. I don't want to mess up a brand new car so I'm going to proceed carefully, but I will talk to shops. I don't want something too loud. If I change anything, I'll post.
  • voisvois Member Posts: 6
    I have a dealer to $13,600 for a 2004 Civic LX. Does this sound OK to those more in the know? Thanks!
  • voisvois Member Posts: 6
    Sorry, that is automatic '04 Civic LX , at $13,600.
    Is this a good price in anyone's opinion?
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    Seems like a good price to me. Isn't that right at or below invoice?
  • andysandiegoandysandiego Member Posts: 54
    About a new exhaust system for an ’04 EX sedan: Today, I went to the local Meineke Car Care Center. As Andyman73 advised, for about $300 I’ll get a new system. They’ll remove the resonator (a small muffler) which becomes straight-through 2” pipe, then a series 60 Flowmaster muffler (not Series 40 which would be too loud), and a chrome tip, downturned for me. Here’s the best news: Gary, the manager, said it will result in about 10% horsepower gain – enough that I will really feel. That would take it to 140 h.p., Miata territory. Many thanks to andyman73 for putting me on this track.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    Wouldn't it be better to have just price plus intertest plus maintenance plus replacements WITHOUT a 600$ timing belt every 60, 80, 90K or whatever!!!

    The new timing belt replacement schedule is 90,000 miles. But you missed the point that I was trying to make. What would you rather have, a $600 timing belt replacement charge at 90,000 miles or pay $1500 more in gas in the same $1500 miles? Yes, a single $600 charge is tougher to swallow than a $1 here and a $1 there which will ultimateley add up to $1500.
  • andyman73andyman73 Member Posts: 322
    Woo Hoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!That totally gnarly dude! Now all you have to do is let your friends in on the secret. Go to Meineke, and don't over pay for exhuast work. Unless they have to have that namebrand, or something. I am so happy for you! I just know you will enjoy the improvement in sound and performance. The best part for me, is knowing I helped a fellow car nut save money on car improvements, from 3000 miles away. Ain't it great! Any of you other car nuts out there, take note, check out your local Meineke. The money you save can be used for other upgrades. Oh, AndySanDiego, you're welcome, I am glad I could help.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    I'd be afraid of the possibility of failing the emissions test with an altered exhaust system, especially on a brand-new car. I've also read MANY stories about people claiming horsepower gains from exhaust mods, only to discover that they're not true. Think about it; someone is trying to sell you a $300 exhaust system (again, on an almost-new car), so he has incentive to tell you whatever in order to do so. Also, making such alterations could put your factory warranty in jeopardy.

    Maybe I'm out of line here, but aren't big reasons to buy a Civic (a new one, at least) in the first place the mileage and low emissions, both of which could be in jeopardy with an exhaust modification? I say, if you want a 140-hp car, just buy one from the factory (like a Mazda3, perhaps?).
  • dalawdalaw Member Posts: 37
    I'd say go for it. Its already $3000 off msrp. I got my 03 LX auto for $13988, and thats without floor mat and with 14 inch wheels and no keyless entry unlike the 04 LX.
  • andysandiegoandysandiego Member Posts: 54
    Re Changing exhaust on automatic Civic EX sedan – GHulet, your comments are plausible, but I do have some of the answers concerning this work-in-progress. Remember we all have our personal tastes and priorities. It’s a pleasure to listen to and learn from you and andyman73, (but ignore ill-informed sarcastic Old Blueeyed.)

    First, this car replaces my wife’s sedan. That’s why it’s a sedan and automatic, but I can’t keep my fingers off it since it’s a fun-to-drive car, and my wife is very tolerant. I just prefer the Civic to the Mazda3.

    Yesterday, the entire stock exhaust system, from the cat back of course, was unbolted, removed, and stored. Emissions are not affected. Also, warranty is not an issue because it says, “The warranties in this booklet do not cover: Any failure caused by modifying the vehicle, or installing accessories not authorized by Honda.” All the engine knows is that the backpressure is reduced. It’s serviced by a non-dealer Honda specialist – not the dealer, and just in case, the original exhaust can easily be bolted back in place.

    So, from the cat back, they replaced the stock system with 2-inch tubing, with a Series 50 Flowmaster muffler and a chromed megaphone tip. That eliminated the stock resonator (a small but restrictive muffler) as well as the main muffler. The manager recommended the new Series 60 Flowmaster muffler, which is intended specially for “imports,” which I take to mean small displacement four-cylinder cars. I listened to the 60 on his Nissan truck, but thought it too mild. I should have listened inside the vehicle under load and acceleration. My error. So I went for the less restrictive 50. Wow! You just want to wind it up on every start, and I’m convinced it has noticeably more power.

    As to economics, due to the lowered backpressure, Flowmaster claims 10% more horsepower, and 5-10% better gas mileage – so I figure it’ll pay for itself eventually.

    But, right now, it’s a bit too loud inside the vehicle. So I have an appointment for next Wednesday when (for an additional $75) he’ll add a small ”cherry bomb” resonator which, he says, will tone down the sound a bit but retain the “performance” - lowered back pressure, keeping the power and gas mileage gains. Had I installed the 60 in the first place, I’d probably be all set. However, there’s no question in my mind that I won’t get there eventually.
  • gregoryc1gregoryc1 Member Posts: 764
    Now that you spent all this money on an aftermarket exhaust system, I am just a little curious about your maintenance schedule for this vehicle. How often do you change your engine oil and filter? Do you use a high quality oil and a high quality oil filter? Are you concerned about the interior mechanical condition of the engine? Do you use a "upper cylinder lubricant" to keep the valves and piston rings free? ----or ----Are you just interested in a loud exhaust?
  • chillenhondachillenhonda Member Posts: 105
    I know it says "sedans" but there is no general Civic board.

    Bought a 2002 Civic Coupe EX 5-speed with 28K miles, silver, from Cush Honda Escondido, CA. No certified program. Got the car for $13K, it was listed at $14.9K.

    Cush Acura was great; helpful, courteous, professional, knowledgable. Cush Honda downthe block was also good with the financing, servicing. As a whole, Honda service is horrible. Cush Honda service in Mission Valley is downright rude.

    Have owned, in order, 94 Sentra XE Auto (bought at 86K miles for $4900, sold at 106K miles for $4700), 91 Accord LX Coupe 5-speed (bought at 147K miles for $2600, sold at 202K miles for $1500), 99 Prelude 5-speed (bought at 22K miles for $17500, sold at 74K miles for $12,900), 00 Accord EXL 5-speed (bought at 30K miles for $13500, sold at 62K miles for $12800), and now the 02 Civic.

    The Civic interior is very nice, although I also like the Mazda 3s The Civic has higher quality materials but is not as sporty or modern. Typical simple but nice Honda design. Love the big dials and guages. Good visibility. Center radio controls are a bit high and far, but not a huge problem. But they do get really hot from the sun through the windsheild. Seats are least comfortable of any Honda Ive owned. No remote trunk release, no lighted visors (they should be on the EX), but power sunroof tilt and slide, tweeters in the A-pillars, and lots of storage space. Roomy in all positions for a compact car, big trunk.

    Steering is nice, good weight, decent feedback. Undertired, like all factory Hondas. Ride is decent, rear suspension has much more impact force than the front. Brakes have good feel. Handling is decent, but not as sporty as the Maxda 3. Good ride/handling compromise for the masses. Engine is ok with the 5-speed, power comes on past 4K rpm, smooth, quiet for a cheap car, could be quieter at high rpms. Could definitely use more low end power, although its not bad for a 1.7-liter. Fuel mileage is great. 34 in mixed driving, including a few redline shifts. Close to 40 on highway trips. Could use larger gas tank. Clutch is great, smooth, light, precise, don’t mind having it in traffic. The 6-speed in the TSX and RSX is a bit more precise and mechanically positive.

    Overall, I like the car a lot. It fits well. I am adding a AEM cold air intake, Eibach Pro-Kit lowering springs, and 16” rims with 205/50 tires. Will post later to share the results of those additions.
  • bd21bd21 Member Posts: 437
    Ouch, 13K for a 3 year old Civic! For not much more than $1000 you could have bought a new 2004 Civic EX with a 5 speed. I hope it was Cherry.
  • stevengordonstevengordon Member Posts: 130
    Paying $13000 for a used Civic EX coupe saved him $3000 over a new 2004 Civic EX coupe (with no options added). I'm not sure of Edmund's price for a used 3-year-old Civic, but Edmund's new price is $16000.

    Of course, these are True Market Value (TMV) prices and I used my own zipcode in the Southeastern USA to arrive at the new Civic price. Your mileage, er dollars, may vary.
  • bd21bd21 Member Posts: 437
    You were closer than I was. I was using figures from when I bought my Civic earlier this year. I paid $700 under invoice. I thought the coupe was less than it is, so he saved about $2,300 on a 3 year old car. It's a personal decision, but I would have gone for a new one if I could have afforded the extra money.
  • stevengordonstevengordon Member Posts: 130
    Since it's kind of slow here (compared with the Future Odyssey forum), I'll say that I had quite a pleasant test drive of an '04 EX this weekend. My wife okayed my testing a CRV (which she'd let me buy on the spot) and a Civic. We're trying to find a solution to two needs:

    (1) our 15-year-old is in Driver's Ed at High School and he's supposed to get a number of hours driving in. We have two 5-speeds, and he's slowly learning how to modulate the clutch pedal (very unsuccessfully).

    (2) if we replace my '99 Accord with an automatic, it would be a bonus if we had the occassonal storage capacity of a hatchback or wagon. My wife sees a lot of Home Depot / Lowe's soil, mulch and potted plants filling up the back of the CRV. I see a couple mtn. bikes filling the same space on weekends.

    So after taking a CRV out, I had a fun time winding the EX up along some twisty little roads. Much more fun than the CRV.

    (Wishing for a 5-door Civic or a compact-sized Scion xA.)
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    Check out the Si, this is as close as you can get to a 5 door Civic sold in UK. Although it is a 3 door, it is very roomy, and very peppy. Most are sold at or near invoice. Most people don't like the styling nor the fact that there is no optional auto. All it took for me is one test drive and I was sold.
  • stevengordonstevengordon Member Posts: 130
    Thanks, blueiedgod. The auto trans is a must-have. I have a couple boys that are a couple years away from learning to drive. So I'm anxious to get away from teaching clutch again.

    I wonder how many Civics would've sold if they'd made a "regular" version of the Si--same high-MPG engine as the sedan and offering an auto trans.

    Next year, when the Jazz/Fit arrives, it will probably take care of any need for a 5-door Civic, at least in Honda's thinking. Too bad...
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    In my opinion, everyone should know how to drive a manual tranny even if they are becoming extinct. The Si is actually very easy to learn to drive on
  • chillenhondachillenhonda Member Posts: 105
    I thought about getting a new 04 Civic EX also. Edmunds TMV on my car was 12800, so 13 isnt too far off. The TMV on a new one, same zip code, color, etc, was around 15900. It is just about 3 years old, but its build date was feb 02, it was in mint condition, and it still has8 months left on the warranty. Maybe not the best deal, but not too bad either.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    I agree with annony, everyone should know how to drive stick, unless they have a medical condition. Anyone can "point and shoot," but to be connected with the car, to be involved is something that most people these days don't posess or want to even think about it. They are too wrapped up in their own world that they have hard time paying attention to the road. By driving manual, one is forced to monitor vheicle's engine and speed. I remember a few months back someone posted that they were driving overheated car without noticing and were pissed that Honda would not cover it under warranty. This was a prime example that the person was not paying attention at all.

    Teaching a kid to drive stick on a brand new car is not a good idea. Get a $500 junker to teach and then graduate to newer car, but still, not the brand new Si. Maybe after 5 years of driving junkers, your sons can try the new car, which will be 5 years old by then.
  • elmoblatchelmoblatch Member Posts: 12
    I have my 1998 Civic DX for sale in the newspaper.

    No calls so far...I thought that the phone would be ringing off the hook. I used KBB to price it, and mentioned in the ad that the car has 1 owner with all maint records. It has 93k miles, auto , a/c, newer tires & brakes & I am asking $5,000.

    Thanks in advance for your thoughts-
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well...

    The bad? It's a DX. Most folks want the extras.

    The high miles aren't helping you a bit.

    On the good side, it has A/C and automatic and you have it priced fairly.

    Be patient, it should sell quickly. a lot of "back to school" buyers out there now.
  • thundershockthundershock Member Posts: 7
    My 2000 honda civic lx 5 speed seems to be making weird noises everytime I hit 2000 rpms in 1,2 and 3rd gear. Any idea on what might be wrong?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    $14,500 is the current price for a new 2 door 5sd Civic EX. A new 4 door EX automatic is $15,950.
    If you want to pay $16K that Edmunds states as TMV I'll happily accept the $1500 difference!

    $14K for a used 2 door EX is no bargain at all.
  • stevengordonstevengordon Member Posts: 130
    When I run the Edmunds New Car price calculator on a 2004 Civic EX 2-door coupe, with a 5-speed manual transmission, I come out to $15,892 (TMV). MSRP is $17350 and Invoice is $15900.

    I don't add any options (Edmunds doesn't seem to let me, anyway), I pick Taffeta White for color, and plug in 35758 as my zip code.

    So if chillenhonda bought his 2002 (?) Civic EX 2-door coupe for $13,000, he saved about $3000 over a new Civic at TMV.

    I'm not sure where the "current price" of $14,500 comes from.
  • elmoblatchelmoblatch Member Posts: 12
    I was thinking the same thing about back to school. Got two calls today, one wanted a standard & the other asked a lot about scratches & dents. He might call back if his son is interested.

    Maybe more will call once the Sunday paper comes out.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    You might try one or more of the Internet car selling services also. Some of them let you place an ad for as little as $5. Lots of people look on the Web nowadays instead of the newspaper for cars.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    Put it in http://www.carsdirect.com used car section. I have heard good things about it. Also, the type of paper you put it in makes a difference. But, internet should be your next approach. You may want to try ebaying the car as well. Just be ware of the scams where people will send you a check for more than the price and ask you to wire the difference back.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    There is a "Sell Your Car" link on the left side of the page that's worth investigating, as well. :)
  • mcap56mcap56 Member Posts: 48
    I also agree with the stick statement. I drive in NYC and am often stuck in a bit of traffic. I was about to get an automatic. However, I am a much better, more connected safer driver with a 5 spd. My mind wanders too much with an auto. I think a lot of others out there have the same problem.

    I will say though, that the civic clutch, although very smooth, is a bit of a pain to operate. The wheel well seems to force your left foot over to the middle more than is comfortable. Anyone else have this issue?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    The pricing quoted in my earlier post ($14,500) is advertised and verified pricing (via phone to make sure there is no catch) at Grand Honda in Chicago area.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    I have an Si, so I can not comment on the wheel well issue. But, I find it easier to modulate speed in stop and go with a manual than auto. With auto, you have to switch from gas to brake to do a 5 mph crawl. With a 5 spd, 5 mph crawl is a piece of cake, as you only modulating the gas and if the cars stop completely, you just clutch, using your other foot. Rather than taking the same right foot of the gas to place it on the brake pedal.
    For all "traffic impared" "bumper-to-bumper" does not really mean you have to ride the bumper of the car infront of you. Leave some room to coast and you will see the benefits of manual over auto.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    With any automatic I've ever owned, I could modulate a crawl using only the brake, except for going up a steep incline. It's the constant clutching in stop-and-go traffic that I find tiring (and wearing on the clutch). I prefer a stick shift and my daily driver is a 5-speed, but if I had to navigate stop-and-go traffic every day I would go with an automatic.
  • stevengordonstevengordon Member Posts: 130
    So far, I'm going with the theory that if I can get him used to operating the clutch pedal, then we'll be over the hump. Our high school has quite a lot of parking lot and service roads wrapping around the building. There's some uphill, but mostly level areas.

    What has worked was to have him plant his heel and then pull the toes backward, letting out the pedal. Much smoother for him, but not perfect...yet.

    Out on city streets, I'm concerned that there'll be a lot of situations where he'll have to drop into neutral and then get into gear, like approaching an intersection with a yield or with blocked visibility. So know what you can do with the pedal, and getting into neutral, even temporarily, is my goal.

    Unless, as my wife wants, we go out and spend a fortune on a CR-V (which, as she says, is the perfect vehicle for her).

    Where's that Civic 5-door?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    When they ask a lot obout scratches on a cheap used car, these people usually aren't that serious. I wouldn't worry. that Civic should sell in a hurry.
  • elmoblatchelmoblatch Member Posts: 12
    Received 2 calls today...college kids that do not currently own a car but want one. I took the car to one person for a test drive. After that experience I thought about just trading it in tomorrow.

    My worry is that some college kid will be calling me a month down the road if there is some problem & I don't want the head ache.

    I lve in NYS & as far as I know, the rule used to be that a private party could sell as car as is & not have to worry about the buyer expecting any kind of warranty ( express or implied ).

    I don;t know if you can shed any light about this...I was gonna call the dealer tomorrow to see if they could give me some advice or a place to get the answer in NYS.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    With any automatic I've ever owned, I could modulate a crawl using only the brake, except for going up a steep incline. It's the constant clutching in stop-and-go traffic that I find tiring (and wearing on the clutch). I prefer a stick shift and my daily driver is a 5-speed, but if I had to navigate stop-and-go traffic every day I would go with an automatic.

    If you keep a little bit of a distance between you and the car infornt of you, you won't have to clutch as often. So, what is the difference between pressing on the clutch or the brake contantly? I see none. Honda clutch is not any more stiffer than brakes, so the effort is almost equal. At least with the clutch, you get both legs/feet working instead of just the right one.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    Where's that Civic 5-door?
    The upcoming Honda Stream.
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