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VW owns Bugatti, Audi, itself (surprise ;-), Seat (Spanish manufacturer without long history), Skoda (Czech manufacturer with extensive history).
Seat and Skoda are cheaper than comparable VW. I think Seat is supposed to be sporty and cheap, Skoda not so expesive and classy, VW is free to go after DCX's Mercedes division and Audi goes after BMW. Bugatti will try to go after exotics.
Now in the USA this plan has big holes, namely no fundation. Toyota started Lexus, Honda Acura and Nissan Infiniti, Mazda did not make it but got Millenia. I think Toyota will/starts new company to sell cheaper cars. If VW wants to keep its customers they need Seat and/or Skoda in US to provide cheaper cars current VW customers expect.
Krzys
I think it would be interesting to re-hash some of the old names in the Auto Union, like Horch.
VW owns Bugatti, Audi, itself (surprise ;-), Seat (Spanish manufacturer without long history), Skoda (Czech manufacturer with extensive history).
Seat and Skoda are cheaper than comparable VW. I think Seat is supposed to be sporty and cheap, Skoda not so expesive and classy, VW is free to go after DCX's Mercedes division and Audi goes after BMW. Bugatti will try to go after exotics.
Now in the USA this plan has big holes, namely no fundation. Toyota started Lexus, Honda Acura and Nissan Infiniti, Mazda did not make it but got Millenia. I think Toyota will/starts new company to sell cheaper cars. If VW wants to keep its customers they need Seat and/or Skoda in US to provide cheaper cars current VW customers expect.
Krzys
If you think about it, we have a 10,000 dollar gap inbetween the prices of the V6 4motion and the W8. There should be something in between with about 220 horsepower or so. I think the new generation VR6 is definitely capable of this.
I've searched the inventory of all the dealers in my area and can't find the car that I'm looking for ('02 Indigo Blue 1.8T 5sp Manual with Beige Leather). What is protocol for long distance dealer trades (i.e. between Rocky Mountain states and the Midwest)? Should there be a charge? How much will that weaken my bargaining position? Any advice would be great. Thanks
I would have to say that a 30K 190hp 5spd manual 4motion Passat would not be a threat to the Audi A4 model, and would give us something to counter the Altima and G35.
Where are we in the lifecycle of the Passat?
I am curious to see what answers you get.
VW owns Bugatti, Audi, itself (surprise ;-), Seat (Spanish manufacturer without long history), Skoda (Czech manufacturer with extensive history).
Seat and Skoda are cheaper than comparable VW. I think Seat is supposed to be sporty and cheap, Skoda not so expesive and classy, VW is free to go after DCX's Mercedes division and Audi goes after BMW. Bugatti will try to go after exotics.
Now in the USA this plan has big holes, namely no fundation. Toyota started Lexus, Honda Acura and Nissan Infiniti, Mazda did not make it but got Millenia. I think Toyota will/starts new company to sell cheaper cars. If VW wants to keep its customers they need Seat and/or Skoda in US to provide cheaper cars current VW customers expect.
Krzys
I am curious to see what answers you get.
The net of all this is my request for you to carefully evaluate the cost of ownership of a used car (and interest rates on used cars are often higher than on new cars -- what with the manufacturer subsidized rates and all) and a new car (lease) over a comparable period of time.
I maintain, within reason, that your ability to "afford" is much different than you think. While there are no gaurantees -- it is much more likely that the cost of a leased 2002 VW will be equal to or less than the cost of a used vehicle.
Now, since I do not have any information about your age or tastes or other pertinent information other than what you have posted, and at the risk of sounding like your dad, I will suggest that a 6 cylinder engine'd car -- although nice -- may be outside of your price range. Moreover, buying used to get the 6 cylinder car may not be a wise decision especially if your budget (and credit) are a little pinched.
Perhaps you could consider a Jetta with the wonderful 1.8T engine.
The used car acquisition cost and monthly payment may be somewhat less than the lease payment on such an upscale, powerful Jetta -- but, the TCO (total cost of ownership) for 45,000 miles (or whatever) will be less.
The used car -- unless you are lucky, will need tires sooner than the new one, anti-freeze changed sooner, spark plugs, wiper blades, oil, oil filter, light bulbs, etc. The so called incidental costs could be quite eye opening.
I sense you want the "hot rod" relatively speaking -- and this is NOT a bad thing. It may be that now is not the time to buy old (and perhaps more unreliably) when for equal to or less money you can buy new (lease).
The joy of that 6 cylinder engine may be lost and forgotten when it is in the shop with even a $200 repair bill (which in my experience would be a rather small bill).
As I re-read your post about what the $8,500 car needs (so far) it is now at acqusition cost + interest (if financed) + $800 in repairs. Your statement that the car you want is $300 a month is also somewhat confusing -- do you think that over 36 months the car with 94K on it would not cost AT LEAST $300 a month (and it still would not be new, and it still runs the "risk" of breaking).
If things are so tight that you would put off getting a new windshield -- why even risk the financial pain that many used cars present.
If you are, however, set on a used car -- please follow VWGUILD's suggestions -- get ALL the facts.
http://thehollywoodextra.com/volkswagen/vw.html
I'm not so concerned about the "little" costs of ownership, ie. WS blades, Antifreeze, etc. I can do most of the work myself saving a ton in labor.
Where do I find the VWGuild?
So I'm done and hopefully I won't have any major problems.
I appreciate your help and advice.
By the way....FYI
I'm 30 yrs. old and my first car as a teen was a '72 Stingray and then a Jeep Wrangler (6 CYL) auto, and then an old Cougar which I only drove as backup for my '96 Vette which I got rid of and then continued to drive the Cougar until it quit.
My taste is actually more along the lines of (new only) Maxima, Caddy STS, Lincoln, BMW M5, JAG X-type. I simply can't afford what I want at the moment.
The 6 cyl. engine holds up better to high mileage then a 4. I am NOT necessarily looking for a "hot rod", but I have yet to drive a 4 cyl. car with the kind of pickup I'm accustomed to. I grew up with mostly 8 cyl. cars including 2 corvettes. To me, the higher reving engine of a 4 cyl. makes me feel like I'm driving a lawn mower. I know the make them a little different then they used to, but bottom line is that I prefer the 6 period.
Thanks Dad
My impression is the 1.8T takes a little getting used to. I found myself always running the turbo (we were in city traffic). The V6 was smoother ride.. since I didnt feel the need to "gun" the engine as much.
The place had very few Passats on lot.. I am considering Silverstone with Gray Leather .. but want to see a Blue Silver and Blue Anthracite before I decide.
I had thought about the Jetta for a long time (probably at least 2 yrs.), but when I priced even used ones with the equip. I want, it was way out of my range. Then as I started seriously looking, I kept looking at bigger cars. I'm not sure why. Maybe I grew out of wanting the smaller Jetta between the time I wanted one and now. I almost bought an Olds Alero with 46,000 for $10,000 from a dealer. I knew the sales guy and he was giving me a good deal, but I never went through with it (there was a slight tick in the motor so I put it on the back burner).
He still owes money on the car, so I have to wait for him to get the title and that takes about a week.
I hate waiting!!
Thanks again
I could be wrong.
Can anyone verify this?
M
1)A stunner! The whole car is extemely stylish! Nothing on the market can even come close expect for the Bimmers and Mercs which costs 10K or more. Everywhere I go people seem to turn their heads and stare at my black Passat with grey leather sunroof and my pounding stereo.
2)The doors close like a bank vault every time I shut it I had to double check that it isn't a Merc.
My father the C Class shuts the same except it doesn't have individual courtesy light under
each of the doors.
3)The car is larger than Audi A4 and better shoulder and head room than C Class Merc.Fade in/out light and stereo, stereo with speed compensating feature, top quality interior material and construction like an Audi!
4)1.8T engine is a wonder! It picks up speed extremely fast, very very responsive so it doesn't feel weak at all. Low end take off is typical of a small engine when compared to large new V6
or V8. Once the speed is above 20 MPH I can't pretty much leave most of traffic in the dust in
a matter of seconds.
5)Seats are covered in thick beautiful leather, it smells wonderful and rich! All the lights inside the cabin lit up like stars in the sky at night! It also features one of the most attractive dash
I have ever seen on any car!
6)One touch operations on front power windows, all window has pinch control(no cars in the price range offers it that i can think of). Soft touch interior everywhere, many leather covered surfaces are stitched like a fine piece of leather jacket. Just amazing! I am still have my mouth wide open and stunned on finding out all of the features, too bad the Germans are so used to this VW don't even both tell you all of the features, like they said it the brochure, they stopped counting after 40 standard features, trust me there are more whole lot more...
7)buy the turbo save a few $$ for all kinds of cool add ons, large wheels, tinted window, etc
the turbo is just awesome it has a cool zing sound to it when pushed a little. IT CAN GO VERY FAST IF YOU GIVE A little TIME! Overall very quite car and very smooth and refined. Some people don't like the 15 inch continental tires, I found them to be very quite just right amount of grip and ride comfort is top notch.
Cons: JUST ONE!
1)My trip computer started to act funny after 700 miles. It suppose to come on when I turn the
key to ON position, the problem is that it sometime doesn't like to come on!! My dealer ordered
a new trip computer module to replace the whole trip computer, Hopefully this is one time deal and will never happen again!
This is the car to beat if you are shopping around. All of the German engineering for little money and yes I dont think I would had the trip computer problem if this is a Toyota or lexus.
This car makes you fall in love with it. Simply one of the most gorgeous car in the mid $20K
range, no other imports or domestic COMES CLOSE!
I am enjoying the pre-buying experience of a new Passat! Test drove a couple yesterday :-)
Dealer offered me $3,000 off any GLX. So we're talking $27,375 + tax/lic for a GLX .. that's a couple hundred below invoice!!
So even if I decide on the GLS 1.8T loaded with Leather, Luxury Package and Monsoon.. I am looking at invoice of $24,500 TMV of $25,400. So for $2000 more than TMV on the GLS I can get the V6 GLX. (sounds good!)
Is there any reason to shop around? Thanks for any advice.
I'm planning to buy this at invoice price, so the number is critical.
Bsides, I think you are a little too worked up here. "I'm planning to buy at invoice price so the number is critical." Critical? $317 on a $23,000+ car? If you like the car $114 over invoice does not sound too bad. Don't turn this into a war over $317--or worse yet, $114. Two dollars a month on your payment is not worth it. Good luck to you!
I thought That i was being just a tad too picky when I mentioned this to a friend, however it is due to people like you, me and all the board members that cars improve. I also have had difficulty at times in the day seeing the dash clearly. If you or anyone else finds out if the lights can be wired to the daytime lights , please let me know.
Except for two mil light malfunctions, and a new power outlet needing relacement for my cell phone, I have 9,352 happy miles on my 02 1.8t Passat.
I also wonder when VW will figure out how to have the headlights go off automatically after turning the ignition off.
Prep=$25...FloorPlan Interest Reserve=$92...Luxury
Package=$1369...Monsoon=$287...
Grand Total = $23,186.00
$200.00, no doubt, Regional Advertising Fee
2) What is the reliability on the Passat?
Thanks
The Passat holds its value better than most other cars in its class. Don't worry about it, it will definitely hold its value.
We are very pleased with the deal I negotiated with Greenbrier VW (Chesapeake, VA). With minimal haggling, Robert Chin (the sales manager) and I agreed on $24K even (before tax, license, and title). I did complain about not wanting the Monsoon; we're big aftermarket fans and want to install an MP3 player. But that's okay...Robert located the car in Wilmington NC and we should be getting the Passat tomorrow!
$25,000 out the door. And we sold our 96 Accord to a college student for $8K...no pesky trade to mess with.
Color me stoked! (or Indigo...)
Kitten
Usually,I research my purchases,too. But there is just something about the Passat...I loved it at first drive. The only other car I really considered was a BMW 525i;I think you have to look at that level to find a car as entertaining as the Vdub.
Accord: great car, not exciting. Parents have a silver 2000. Heck, we already had a 1996!
Camry: great car, not exciting either. Side airbags and ABS is extra on the 2002, driving the price into Passat range.
Passat: all those safety features standard! (we have a 2 yr-old son so safety's #1). Also, rated highly by Consumer Reports.
Honestly, if it received crummy ratings from CR, we wouldn't have bought it. I really like the Grand Cherokee but it sucks rocks in the reliability area. And this is the car to see us into retirement (well, DH's retirement in 2006; he's Navy).
I've never owned anything but Japanese (Toyota, Nissan, Honda) so the German Experience will be brand-spanking new!
I'm glad to hear you have good vibes about Greenbrier. Casey in Newport News really frosted my cookies this past weekend. Greenbrier has been a dream to work with (even easier than buying our Civic in 1994).
I'm tingling, folks!
I just bought a GLS 5spd with Lux and Monsoon for invoice from Pitcairn Volkswagen in Oxford Valley (salesman was Andrew Kraft) No haggling, just a little reluctancy on their part.
(215) 741-4100
I had also gotten the same offer from Colonial VW on Street Road in Bensalem - same car -different color - at invoice, and was on my way to pick it up when the salesman called and told me the car had been sold to someone else. I then heard that Colonial does this a lot!
Don't know why the price should be going up! They should be coming down getting ready to sell the 2003's
Good Luck! Let me know how it turns out
The new prez seems to think he can accomplish the upmarket push substantially by the model year 2005. That seems like he is taking "wishful thinking" drugs and not sharing them with the rest of the class.
On other matters:
Tracie, congrats on the new used Passat -- and VWGUILD is a member of this erudite forum and knows more about VW's than anyone I have ever talked to. He is an asset to us on this town hall.
My friend with the Avalon, loves the W8 commercials and says that @ $38K seems like it will steal biz from Audi.
@ http://www.forbes.com/2002/05/13/0513feat.html
I think VW didn't do enough aesthetically to distinguish the W8 from 'lesser' Passats. The 1.8t manual is a bargain, the W8 is not, unless compared on a 'numbers' or 'content' basis versus A6, E320, etc.
pat: hey there neighbor! When you see a chick with red hair in an Indigo Blue Passat blasting Barenaked Ladies or Moby from her new Monsoon, wave!
I'm itching to call Greenbrier and ask, WHERE IS MY CAR?!?! I've never been this excited about steel and rubber in my life!
So far (approx. 100 miles into the ‘break in’) it is as wonderful as I had expected, based on my research and two test drives.
Someone here (I think in the past week) posted a question about RPM at various speeds. On the highway the indicated RPM at 70 is approx.: 2400 and at 80 it is approx. 2750.
Any other questions, post here and I will try to answer them . . .
Cheers,
- Ray
Who is now looking to TireRack for possible replacement of the OEM Contis and my local shop for what it would take to put dual MagnaFlow mufflers on a W8 – to let out a bit more of that unique and intoxicating exhaust note . . .
with 235/45-17 Michelin Pilot Sports...there
is a picture at www.vwguild.com
That package came from the TireRack...