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Comments
The 3.5 is a whiner---like a Ferrari....
Good test yellowperil!!!!
Saturn is not too upscale the last time I looked; so I hope Intrigue fades out as a winner..
The entire Saturn project was based on GM divisions supplying parts at less than cost to overcome the Asians.. Roger Smith sold the whole piece of baloney to the Board.. Saturn would make a good lawnmower..
Coleman--that was too funny re: Saturn mower!
If you let the cuise control handle your speed, you can get 30-31MPG on the highway in an Intrigue. (But if that's what you want-- isolating yourself from the driving experience with cruise-- then maybe the Intrigue isn't really the car for you!)
However, I have never been able to understand peoples big hang-up on prem. extra 8-10 cents. Assuming that you fillup once a week, with 15-gallons that is a whopping buck-n-half. Over a course of 1-year you are talking less than 100 dollars. Even 200 if you must fill it twice a week.
If money is that tight maybe one should consider down-sizing to 4-banger.
The non-domestic small displacement engines require the premium stuff to develop the legs to run with the larger displacement.. The prem fuel is a cheap fix for the 3.0/3.2 bunch..
At the gas pump we normally have the choice of three grades; however the prem. user only is up the creek.. I know, for the 96 Northstar isn't too happy on the mid-grade; and the 87 octane would be used for downhill trips only!!!!
The $0.10/gal difference is normally the spread between the mid-grade and the top end. The 87 vs. prem. is .13-.20 difference.. For years, I used the Sunoco 86 in the 2.8 and 3.1 GMs and after 90k/100k miles it didn't make any difference.. Never had any tuneups or sure didn't need any either..
Problem is gas already cost more here than in the U.S. Premium just makes it worse.
Unfortunately he had other ideas and as he walked away from me hard then took my lane to take the next right, I saw the AMG logo on the back of the car. Doh!
The local Mobil is trying to get there quick, for I noticed the Prem.@1.84 and the 87@1.70; so our enviro whacko friends and the camel jockeys have once again joined forces to screw the USA..
Good old Easter weekend is a great time to raise prices..
Save the Caribou!!!! Hello recession!!! and how long do you think you would like to stick around????
vcjumper----I like the way you step up to the task and make a Mercedes owner at least defend his $70k purchase. Keep up the challenge for it's great marketing and will spread the word; don't mess with Intrigue owners.
I have driven the 3.5L and it is indeed a smooth and powerful engine in the top end....the low end is no where near as powerful as the 3800.
The 3.5L will eventually be axed and the 3800 keeps going..hmmmmm I wonder why...
Surprise!
GM has frittered away too much money developing a hi-tech V-6 based on beancounter input..I enjoyed the 3.8; but doesn't sway any future consideration. GM is my favorite car co.; but they have lost the race with dull engines!!!
The 3.5 is pure silk and inspires driving on the fast side; with the lack of low end torque a non-event, who needs it????
Gas is sky high so I'll be limping the car around hoping to ride out half a tank till prices go down again. No more keeping it out of overdrive on the highway for s%$ts and giggles.
The older pushrod engine starts to lose breath at about 3600-4000 rpm, and almost dies at 5500. This higher rpm band is about the optimum for the new 3.5l engine.
On the other hand, 3.5l is about 10-15% more than the 3.0-3.2l at Honda, Toyota, etc. This is why Intrigue have better low rpm torque/acceleration than these cars, even when they bear the Acura/Lexus badge.
GM planned to produce a 3.7l version of the Intrigue engine for new Pontiac GP. About the same displacement as the current 3.8l. But, probably, now it will be shelved.
Put a 5-speed auto with the Shorstar and I think acceleration times would take a nice jump. That is a no brainer and GM would be dumb not to. Honda was smart mating one to their 3.2 and I wouldn't be surprised if their next Accord has one.
As to who needs the low-end torque, well, it depends on the driving pattern.
For example, I work and a city and live in a close suburb. Do not need to use highways, except for pleasure trips. I even intentionally drive home from work twice a usual distance by highways about once week at winter for practice, to not lose the skills.
The same with my wife, except she drives our son to swim pool twice a week - one exit by highway.
So we practically do not need the high-end performance. But a good low-end acceleration helps very often for different reasons: with changing lanes with fast start from traffic light, with merging into street traffic, and couple of times it let my wife to avoid the imbeciles who run a light.
On the other hand, I have friends who are commuting 40-60 miles one way. They live close to highway, and work near highway. Such driving pattern really asks for the high-end power, but barely for the low-end acceleration.
I believe, about the same is true with the "road warriors", e.g. corporate salesman.
JR
Regarding the endless comparisons between the engines... There is one area that the 3.8 certainly has a huge advantage. And that's aftermarket upgrades. But that should change as the 3.5 is used in other lines, if GM keeps building it.
Still it is an interesting comparison. The reason for the difference is mainly due to the 4 valve vs. two valve difference. Any time you increase a naturally aspirated engine's breathing ability, low end power will suffer.
This is true in pushrod engines also. If you have a small block 350 CID Chevy that has a stock 1.94" intake valve. Replace that valve with a 2.02", port the heads to take advantage of the increased flow and you have killed some low end power, but gained something on the top end.
Since that small block chevy now flows more it needs a camshaft that has the lift and duration to take advantage of the engines new found breathing ability. That new camshaft can really kill low end power. You will now need steeper gearing( which the intrigue needs) and higher stall torque convertor or a manual tranny(the intrigue has neither).
The 4 valve engine in the intrigue has the same effect on low end poweras the 2.02 valve in the small block chevy. It kills low end power.
The intrigue does not have a high lift camshaft either, because if it did it wouldn't be so smooth at idle. The intrigue also has fairly short intake runners to help with midrange and above flow.
The 3800 has relatively small valves and longer intake runners to help with low and mid range power.
Acura and honda use a lot of gearing to get their cars going. This is why the acceleration times are so close. The steeper gearing hurts their highway mileage numbers.
If the intrigue was running 3.55 or 3.71 gearing, a 5 speed auto and a looser torque convertor i would fully expect a 0-60 time of 7 flat or less.
http://www.homestead.com/redly1/Oldsmobile_stuff_Intrigue.html
GM 3.8 V-6 engines will be out of production by 2006. Replaced with all aluminum, overhead cam, "Electron" V-6s starting in 2003. GM considered using the 3.5 premium twin-cam engines but they are costly and underpowered for some of the cars in which the 3.8s are used. A stronger, upsized version of the premium V-6, displacing 3.7 liters is also being developed.
Still, that article doesn't make it definite that the 3.5 will never be built again. We'll have to see if GM scaps the dies or just puts them in storage for another line.
71ss(aka 1415) I am so in agreement with you on post 2264. What these tree huggers don't understand is that energy is what drives our economy and while $3 gallon gasoline may drive more people out of big SUVs it will also cause the US economy to slow even more. I filled up the Intrigue this evening and I noticed 87 octane was up to $1.45 a gallon. My father is now spending $30 or more to tank his premium drinking 95 Aurora up. THANKS ALOT LIBERALS!!
2002 Altima
Maybe i should hold off on the 2001 intrigue.
Growing tired of the rumor mill; so maybe it's time to dump the Intrigue and get into the last of the V-8 Camaros..
If I let about 5lbs. of air out of the tires; someone might think the Intrigue is a limo..Warranty till 75k--what's the Bid????
I read that there has been an announcement of a HUGE oil field north of Edmonton (sp?), Canada. Reserves estimated at 15% MORE than Saudi Arabia. Looks like the next big oil glut will be coming courtesy of our friends in the "great white north." So, don't dispair over current, short-term gas price spikes. Long term looks pretty good.
1415/71ss... I am trading the 2000 3800 Firebird in tommorrow on a 2001 LS1 Formula. Price out the door after rebates (before taxes) is $20,872. I just read that the 2002 Formula's will have T-tops as standard equipment... glad I grabbed a 2001, as I didn't want t-tops. I can hardly wait for that V-8 rush!
I also think it looks better the Max.
Wonder where it fits in on the pricing scale.
Gas is $1.65 for 87 Octane in Indianapolis, second 10 cent jump in a week. Last time I filled up, I bought a little further north for $1.28! I love Price wars!
71ss, I don't think that was Automotive News that had the Alero picture when talking about the Intrigue.
The Formula is a super car; my only hangup is the recessed/popup headlights. How is yours equipped?
Trans and tires??
I am with you on the T-top and after a dozen cars with sunroofs, I am wearing a little thin on that option and will probably pass on the next car..
The wifes Caddy is going to be around another year and the Intrigue is worthless for resale, so I will punish myself and drive through the extended warranty..
The 3.5 turned out to be a very expensive engine for GM if one reviews the numbers obviously was a miscue somewhere; whether it be lack of potential or physical size..I never read any testing data prior to purchasing the car nor did I ever see any GM prototype test results of long term dyno mileage. The new truck I-6 went through some heavy testing and 300k miles dyno/wide open was a breeze..
Anyway, your right, it does look blue. Must be the lighting and the fact that I used a $28 scanner. There was a little over 300 mi on it.
I wanted a green or ruby 99GLS. They had a green and a white.
If GM can build I-6's again, could they bring back RWD in cars? Surely there must be a cadre within GM that still smarts from the loss of police cruisers. RWD is the quite natural choice for an I-6 layout.
My post in "midsize cars for tall people" was removed along with someone else's.
I think a bunch of posts from yesterday completely disappeared.
Did edmunds announce some kind of changeover that i missed?
I see where Pontiac only offers ebony, taupe, and dark oak for interior colors.. The ebony leather sounds super; is someone missing their interior on a 2000TA or shouldn't I ask???
Is the std Formula suspension strong enough to hold the 17" tracks on the pavement????
I think the wide treads look neat; but they are not my bag for cruising--too much rubber flopping around--too hard to balance and they tend to pick up all bumps..
I understand some have already been restored, and more may be coming, but there are no promises at this point.
Please accept our sincerest apologies for this situation and trust that every effort is being made to rectify the problem. Thank you for your patience.
Pat
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