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Comments
I HATE a Saturn in my rear view mirror. It's so distracting.
What kind of air filters are people using? Fram, AC/Delco, etc. It's about time to change mine.
I can remember some of these world class cars that became part of the local scene..Ford tried it and found out they were too damn small--somebody goofed. how do you get more room in the back seat area? cut 2" out of the 3" front seat back!!!
Naturally you expect some exotic engineering; guess again; this is America where we love cars that don't require any maintenance and just drive the living crap out it..
The Epilson hype is Catera-ish big time..There is no free lunch in the auto world and occasionally you get hosed..
Why does America have alot of SUVs???? High profit and Asia was eating our lunch in the car world.. Now these fellows also make SUVs; so our Big 3 will again shrink and lose--we lose big time..
When the politicans get through with their agenda on the cars and the trucks you young fellas and gals are going to be driving around 40hp golf carts on the interstates..
People will be pleading to have an engine of the 3.8 size 20 yrs from now..
Dream on about the Euro Effect..
Glad to see some of our forum members ga-ga over a government financed/run auto company..Give a hug to the socialists/comm..... community..
wow!!!God Bless America!!!!!!
Really think the grass is greener on the other side?????
I even hug an Impala before financing the growth of a different lifestyle!!!
But I'll be glad to see the SUV craze die down. The doggone things are too high; you can't see around them from even an Intrigue sized car. And the average SUV driver doesn't realize how heavy and slow-responding the things are, or how much stopping distance they need. Mostly, they're rolling road hazards to drive around.
Check out the Buick...is that the next Regal?
I wonder if GM is losing sales because of them.
jg28 : Kill Saturn?? GM has spent billions creating an image and a great reputation for customer satisfaction. Opel is hardly know in North America. Replacing Saturn with Opel would be a disaster.
teo : I've seen those pictures before. Not sure what they are, but they look better than the Regal pictures I saw in Motor Trend last month. Hopefully the truth is close to these pix.
I believe they are a 'North American' invention but I have also grown accustomed to them and they don't bother me a bit. For better or worse they do help to increase awareness of oncoming traffic.
they are great specially on bad weather or two lane rural roads.
I've always made a habit of leaving 3 seconds of space between myself and the traffic ahead. Most drivers on crowded southern California freeways are less conservative... and when I was using a lesser powered car, I had to keep letting others into the gap. Then I'd back off a bit to get my space again... and yet another driver slips in. Sometimes this pattern would repeat so many times that I'd just give up, and move back over to the right, since I was not getting the chance to actually overtake the traffic there.
But the Intrigue makes it possible to assert my safety zone. If somebody tries to pass me on the right I can "mash it" and block him off. Hey, If I'm in the fast lane, I *am* passing traffic if I can. When I'm not, it's because there's a lane hog ahead. As far as I'm concerned, drivers should have the patience to wait this out. Eventually the road will bank one way or the other and you can get by the lane hog. Don't just squeeze in there and tailgate him, to intimidate him into moving.
Second point: I also get the opportunity to *be* the person passing on the right. The driver in front may not *quite* a lane hog, but be just c-r-e-e-p-i-n-g past traffic, (not making a serious effort to pass.) I can "mash it" right at the moment he has space on his front and rear right quarters and get around. The safety zone is not just insurance, but "my space" which I have the power to use.
I don't view that as hypocrisy. I justify this, because I spend much less time near the other cars than some dunderhead who wants to squeeze into my safety zone to create a "stack" of slowly passing traffic-- that would all collide if someone hit his brakes. At least I pass, return to the fast lane, and get it over with, putting *all* the clowns behind me.
The fact that I'm not in the mass anymore makes it safer for everyone. (Really, Officer!!) The space my car used to occupy is now available for the remaining drivers to haggle over.
And it's interesting to see what they do with the space. A BMW or a kid in a raised pickup following me will often floor it, and squirt though the opening I've just "proven"... But lesser powered cars just muck it up.
Dindak, speak for yourself. I don't like Saturns and judging from their poorer than Oldsmobile sales (in the figures I've seen anyway) I don't think many others do either. Judging from the overwhelming popularity of Volkswagen, I think GM would be wise to import some Opels here. Just like they plan to import the CTS to Europe. We're truly becoming globalized when it comes to cars.
I drove my sister's 2001 Intrigue tonight. I can't BELIEVE the difference. And hers has almost as many miles as mine. The suspension seems more refined, the engine even seems more refined and it was ONE HECKUVA LOT quieter. No squeaks at all. I even drove on the "Bosnia Road" near our house and it seemed so much better than mine. :-( I'd spend a few hundred bucks to duplicate that and keep the Intrigue if I could just get some guidance as to what needs to be changed. The driver and front passenger doors seem much more solid on hers too. Heavier. And they close with a kerplunk thud. Sounds nice. Are the 2001s THAT much of an improvement?
jg28 : Import all you want, Opels won't sell. Saturn sales have been poor, but with a new S-series and and SUV, things will get better. The new S-series is actually based on a Opel platform. Sales in fact have been up these past months at Saturn with the L-series picking up steam after a slow start. Around these parts, I see L-series cars everywhere these days.
Based on your driving comment I will go drive a 01 Demo; did drive a 00 demo a year ago and it was considerably quieter and smoother than my ride..
dindak:::::the LS Saturn 300 is an interesting piece of car..Kinda a non-entity but the sport suspension and the Catera V-6 pulling a 3100# car with speed rated-tires is a bargain!!!!
-dealership
-changes
-driving impressions
Dealership
I got it from Reedman's Auto World in Langhorne, PA. This place is HUGE! They sell Olds, Chevy, Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth (what's left), Lincoln, Mercury, and Jaguar. It took about 2 minutes (maybe more) to drive from the guest parking area to where the car was delivered. This place take up BOTH sides of the highway. To look at a car, they drive you over to where the vehicles are then drive the potential new car to the test track, also on their property.
The salesman I dealt with was excellent. If you're in the Philly area and looking, ask to speak to John Mimms. Tell him the big guy with the totalled Intrigue sent you. Without going to his manager he started at invoice and took off numbers from there (granted, I did come in with my GMBuypower email. They have different pricing schemes for folks off the street than for people who went to the web.) There was no reason for me to haggle. He got a little more profit than I initially wanted to give (I didn't fuss that the 3% holdback wasn't taken off) but I don't mind paying when service is top notch (I'll get to that in a second). He even came in to make sure everything was cool (it was his day off and he really didn't need to be there).
They didn't add any extra expenses--no advertising fee, no dealer prep charges, nothing extra except tax, tags and title. The young lady at closing didn't try to sell me undercoating, rust-proofing or any of that. Of course, she did offer the insurance to pay the loan if I was out of work. Paperwork took about 20 minutes total, if that.
They are so big and sell so many cars and trucks that there's a waiting area just to wait to sign the papers. The waiting area was setup like a mini-movie theater (not updated since the 70's but different) with a big screen TV.
After the papers were signed, we got back into the car and did the 2 minute drive to the far end of the property. We handed a lady behind the counter our paperwork and tags while we took a seat in the delivery waiting area. It too had a mini movie theater setup. But in addition, it had an area with multiple leather couches, a faux fireplace and toys for kids to play with. It looked like a small furniture showroom. We played video games from the 80's (a nostalgic classic for the wife and myself--Millipede) while the young guys affixed my tags, washed the car, changed the oil (didn't have to ask), shined the wheels and vacummed the interior. Whent they were done, they came in and got us, explained the features of the car, offered us to drive it again before officially taking it and asked if we were pleased with the appearance of the car.
At every stage of the process we were treated with the upmost respect and dignity. Everyone in each stage of the process asked if we were satisfied with the level of service provided.
I tell you, the service was so top notch I would get another car from them. And (while this sounds crazy) I would take whatever price they gave me. I'm the type where if I get excellent service, paying extra is no problem.
Since this post is so long, I'll continue in another.
There are some significant changes between 1998 and 2001.
-Trunk lid: In 98 it took a lot of effort to close the trunk. My wife hated it. With the 01 it closes as easily as the traditional hinged trunk does.
-Noise: This is a favorite on this forum. I found the noise level to be considerably lower than in 98. I take I-295 into work. Most of it is concrete. Yet tire noise wasn't intrusive. It was there, and unless you're driving an LS430 you're going to hear it. But it was much quieter than my old one. Even outside noise like cars passing by was well muted.
-Seats: Need more lumbar support. A manual (preferably a power) lumbar support is needed. I believe harlanc said that would be corrected with 2002 models. They also seem wider than before. Note that I had cloth seats in the 98, now I have leather. Shouldn't matter but you never know.
-Mirror: Trivial matter but the rear-view mirror is different. Now there is a push button to activate the lights under the mirror. Previously it used a rocker switch. I'm going to replace it with a Donnelly electrochromic mirror with compass and outside temp reading.
Driving Impressions
-Ride: The ride quality felt better than the 98. While not an Aurora, it was very comfortable over large bumps like sunken manhole covers. The 98 seemed to allow more of the impact into the cabin. The ride of the 98 was also a little firmer. 2001 is much smoother overall. But I'm sure the 3.5 has a lot to do with that.
-Engine: Since we're on the subject, I found the 3.5 to be a much better engine than the 3800. I have been in both camps so it's not loyalty speaking. The 3.5 w/o PCS has more than enough power for "sane" stop-n-go. Still too soon to see how it performs when flooring it from a stop. The orchestration btwn the engine and tranny is also improved. With the 3.8 (and I feel it in the Bonnie as well) after mashing the gas while doing about 30 mph a slight hesitation occurs. Not long, nothing to cause concern. More like the engine is taking a deep breath. Not in the 3.5. Immediate, smooth and seamless power is delivered. Highway passing was excellent, as expected.
I'm sure I'll think of more. Will post as it comes to me. But overall, I am very pleased with the purchase. I'm glad I didn't go with the other vehicles on my shopping list. Besides, this car looks good in Midnight Blue!
9899olds : L-300 is a very nice car. Interior could be better and the exterior could be more exciting but the car is fast. The 2003 models will be slightly re-skinned.
I've been debating whether to install it because the stock radio isn't bad. Not great, but not bad. My reasoning is that after installing the Pioneer in the old Intrigue sound quality improved dramatically. So if the radio in the new one sounds pretty decent, the Pioneer should rock with the GL speakers. I plan on making the swap after work today.
1. Lexus
2. Saturn
3. Cadillac
9. Oldsmobile
18. Honda
19. Toyota
20. Chevy
one2one : Does it have the cassette/ CD combo, or is it just the CD. I have both with the steering controls. I really like it. The Bose is better, but it's also cost a fair chunk more.
I think it kind of nice when one is forced to upgrade via insurance, as long as one is not upside down on the loan. It is a lot better than a blown engine and you are stuck with the repair bill.
Good Luck...
Wa-la!
It's done. Takes about 5 minutes. But I did have practice taking it out of the old one :-)
The Catera is a detuned Opel Omega/Holden Commodore that was messed up by the incompetence of the Cadillac management in the late '90's to bring down the age of the typical Cadillac customer and shake up the 'geritol' (Hey 1415 no offense intended ) image of the division. In an attempt to turn a decent European road car into an American plushmobile, GM made lots of modifications to the car on the fly and most of them were never tested properly or even spent enough time in quality control. The result? A great car that gained a bad rep overnight because of making significant changes to the car without testing them accordingly and then rushing it to market with a high sticker price.
The Saturn L is a similar story. The Saturn L is a direct descendant of the current generation Opel Vectra. Mechanically seems better than the Catera, yet the car has also been experiencing numerous quality control issues. The car is assambled on GM's delaware plant and not Spring Hill, TN were the S series Saturns are made. The Delaware plant is not known for great quality of craftmanship or great laboral relations either. the car is ugly outside and very nice inside. The 3.0L V6 is probably the best feature of the car.
The future crop of Opel models as shown on an earlier link should prove to be successful contrary to what some may say here. Provided that GM decides to bring the Opel Astra (Cavalier replacement) and next generation Sigma models such as the Vectra and Omega I am sure that GM will begin to regain some of the lost market share.
The 'Euro' style does sell and right now it is consider to be the trendiest and hottest among new cars (Read VW, Audi and BMW). In all honesty, the Europeans have it together with beautiful designs. the Japanese have fallen into the boredom of their generic products and the US is seeing a resurgence but not without bad hiccups such as the Aztek.
The future of GM products rests on the new platforms co-developed by GM and Opel. Like or not. GM needs to abandon the idea that North America gets different cars than the rest of the world...is simply not cost efficient and quality suffers in the end.
Some critics taught that the Ford Focus was going to be a flunk or the new generation Jetta IV and Passat V models were going to be also. How wrong they were. Those cars have proven consistently that the new wave of European design is equally liked here and across the pond. That was not the case before.
The European market Ford Focus looks identical to the US version. The European market VW's look indentical to the US bound versions. There is no longer the need to make heavy design and driving feel modification when a competent design meets the general requirements of a broad market audience.
Article talks about Saturn's L-series being good but late to the party. Seems like the stuffed shirts at GM still haven't gotten the picture. Let's hope they don't flush Buick down the toilet. Unfortunately it looks like they will. 3.7L doesn't look like it will be ready when the Regal is (terribly) redesigned. So they'll go with the trusty 3800. Their SUV is attractive but underpowered. And there's talk about making all Buick dealers part of GMC-Pontiac (as some in my area already are). Apparently everyone in the world except GM learned from the mistakes made with Oldsmobile.
I think their biggest claim to fame is their SERVICE, and doing a very fine job of making their customers feel SPECIAL. And for some the NO-Haggle [one price] may also have some appeal. But without a doubt there better alternatives to the Saturn out there.
one2one : Ya.. I was hitting the top of the $$ range with a GL already. Bose stereo was not in the cards. I mostly listen to FM radio anyway.
As for the Saturn L300, no it's not exciting to look at BUT it is way more fun to drive than a V6 Camry/Accord, and it's faster too. The quality is much improved over the first ones off the line and owners seem very happy. Check out the forum. I still like my Intrigue better, but the Saturn L300 is a very good midsize choice.
Saturns aren't appealing (other than this newfound JD Power report). Oldsmobiles are better Saturns than Saturns are. Who would argue that our cars are more attractive/appealing than the L series (underpowered and ugly).
Opel has an already established name plate even if it is in Europe. Remember that we're living in a global world. Opel's reputation would quickly become known to North Americans, even if they don't know it yet.
I've got the headlight flicker (not too bad, haven't bothered to have the alternator serviced) and a little bit of creaking sounds from the front left corner. This is at 12K miles. Otherwise, no problems mechanically.
My main reason getting the GL over the GX was wanting the front and rear sway bars. But I have been getting spoiled by the climate control... It's a nice feature.
I have to say the spy shots of the upcoming Delta/Epsilon leave me cold. One looks a lot like a Camry and the others just look kind of awkward and ugly (and yes, I am aware that one is camoflagued). I do not care for the current GM trend of orienting headlights vertically (the upcoming Cadillacs seem stuck with this too). Comparing these to the 2002 Altima link also referenced, you really have to wonder what GM is thinking (and no, I am hardly a Japanese car fan). I just wonder if they will ever get things together.
Saturn: I find them mean, cheap, nasty little cars. Their base interiors are embarassing. The L-series is about as bland as one can get, and surprise, they aren't selling. I believe the billions GM spent on Saturn was largely a waste. One of GMs big problems is their inability (or unwillingness) to update models frequently enough (see the Cavalier for a good example). What would those Saturn billions have done for product development?
Opel: geez, I dunno. It's one thing to build a brand, but the product better be good when you try. Opel's rep in Europe may be good, I don't know, but my first impression of them is not good (based strictly on old images). I relate them to Vauxhall and the less said about that the better. However, having said that, the platform used for the Holden Caprice and the Chevy Caprice sold in Saudi Arabia seems to be just what GM needs over here. The Saudi Caprice is exactly the car I would buy if GM offered it here. Yet they can sell Cadillac Escalades (which I despise). Go figure.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Out of curiousity, what is the build date on your car?
I think you will find the stock GL 6 speaker stereo is pretty good.
ab348 : Totally agree with you on Saturn if you are talking about the S-series. Not impressive and cramped are words that come to mind. The L-series interiors are quite good though. It's too bad the outside is so dull. I hope Saturn does a good job with the new S-series come next year. The Vue SUV looks like a big winner if the quality is there.
The new Automobile magazine has some great shots of the new CTS. Very impressive looking. I really like where Cadillac is going with their designs. The CTS, Escalade and Evoq all look great!
www.zaino.com
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
On my bright blue maetallic camaro i use the mother's three step process.
Since your car is brand new and has not been sitting on the lot. I would forgo the cleaner and go straight to the sealer/glaze and then the carnuba wax. The sealer glaze will cover the fineline scratches and you will find that the metallics in the paint will really jump out. The carnuba wax lasts a fairly long time. About 3-4 months.
Zaino is also good for clarity. But is a fairly long process the first time out.
Regarding the mirror - do you think it is compatible for my 2000 Bonneville SE as well? If so I might be interested in something like that. The electronic compass and outside temp are two features I'd like to have.
Best wishes for many years and miles of Intrigue driving.
Ken
ab348 : The Escalade is selling very well and the CTS forum is hopping. I think they will sell very well. Evoq is not suppose to be a big number seller, more of a flagship car.
My second choice was Ruby. It's just right... not too bright, not too dark. For 2002 they dropped Midnight Blue replacing it with Indigo used on the Bravada. I've seen an Indigo Bravada. I can't imagine how beautiful an Intrigue will look in that color!
They say the mirror should fit all vehicles. I'm going to call before purchasing just to make sure it fits. Donnelly is respected in the automotive industry. In fact, they make the electrochromic mirrors w/OnStar for the Acura RL. So I would hope they made it to fit GM vehicles. Only Honda and Toytota seem to need special kits.