Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
The 4 banger LE version (Which will account for nearly 85% of all Camry sales as it has in the past) has a 157HP rating and some people say that the 4 banger feels somewhat stronger than the V6!.
Price gouging will be the name of the game at Toyota dealers with the new Camry. If you are interested wait at least 6 months once demand settles down and dealers are willing to deal on the beast. Let's see how the first year quality of the '02 Camry fares before jumping on it.
The base model is going between $20K and $25K and the fully loaded XLE V6 sedan is selling in the $30K range which is clearly Audi, Lexus, Acura, BMW and VW Passat territory. Toyota is dangerously outpricing themselves with their products. Once you get passed the hype regarding quality, reliability and resale value, most Toyota products are pretty much ordinary and have no extraordinary qualities to them, except maybe the Lexus IS300, LS430 and the Audi TT copycat, the SC430.
The new Camry will seriously impact Avalon sales...The Avalon is Toyota's equivalent to the Aztek. I see a redesign coming up real soon.
I still see the GM offerings as a much better value, better powertrains that have no need to make stupid excuses, competitive quality and a good array of comfort and safety equipment.
GM doesn't need a $30K Camry look alike, it needs a car with comparable and better quality that undercuts the asking price of the Japanese offerings.
The '02 Nissan Altima is a REAL performance alternative to the Mommy Camry but a fully loaded 3.5L V6 DOHC with 253HP is approaching the $30K threshold. Will people pay that much money for a Nissan Altima??? We shall see.
But even at $30K given the superior power ratio of the Altima over the Camry, the Altima seems to be the better buy.
Both cars are first year models and remember that not even the mighty Japanese can escape first year bugs.
Have you seen the '02 Camry in person? I tell you, if is just a little dark [as is was when it saw it] you almost mistake it for the Avalon. Size & style wise it was almost a spitting image [minus the grill & rear-end]. A lot of new cars seem to run with similar lines during their cycles, get hard to tell some of them apart.
I'm glad you like the spoiler, and I'm sure that many others will too. It just seems so out of character for such a big/bigger family sedan. Almost like putting a spoiler on a Benz, just doesn't flow. Looks are always subjective, right?
And keeping with topic, do you have any problems cleaning/waxing under your spoiler?
teo : The GM offerings are indeed better value BUT, having driven a Intrigue I'm not sure I would go back to a 3.8L based car. That said, I would buy a Regal over a Camry anyday. Quality wise there is almost no difference.
As far as long term durability is concerned (and this perception will vary as you will quickly discover) was that you won't have any major problems with the car. Minor annoyances perhaps but no real problems. You'll be getting the 3800 engine/tranny combo that has proven itself over time.
Take out a bumper-2-bumper warranty if you do get it just in case the aforementioned problems are present.
Just spoke to a dealer, he said indigo blue may not be available in Canada. That is bull.
The output of the 2002 ES300 is 210HP for the exact same engine. The RX300 & GS300 (same engine) has 220HP. Note that the Intrigue when it was released only had a 195HP rating while Impala and Buick Regal LS were at 200HP all with the 3800 engine. When the 3.5 came out folks would say, "WOW! A 20HP increase!" when in reality they could have tuned it like the others. But then the new engine wouldn't have had that special something over the original engine. Toyota's doing the same with the Camry/ES300.
Why is the Camry rated at 192hp while the ES300 is 210? Simple... snob appeal.
I noticed that, aside from oil changes and fluid changes in dusty climates, the manual says absolutely nothing about other things that are done during tune-ups. I suppose that would negate the 100,000 mile tune-up pitch.
Having said that, I wouldn't worry too much about those things. Even the Motor Trend long-term report only included oil/filter, inside filter changes, and tire rotation totalling slightly more than $400 for 40k miles. At 80k people thought I was lying about the mileage since I keep it on the trip computer most of the time. You should have seen the looks on their faces when they saw what was really on the odometer!
Was squeak and rattle free too.
Actually I've been very happy with the Toronado. No rust showing anywhere and that's unusual for a car that has lived in Northeast Ohio for 12 years. I got the base model but added the anti-lock brakes. It stickered at 23 and I got it for 18, so I figure that it's cost me only $1500 a year for the last 12 years plus routine maintenance. I know it's getting to the point where the repair costs and headaches are going to equal the monthly payment for a new car, so it's time to start shopping. Now I just can't decide if I should stick with the Toro for the winter and get the GLS in the spring when the rebates might be better or bite the bullet now and not worry about getting stuck somewhere when it's 10 below zero with 2 feet of snow. I'm also thinking that the PCS system might be nice to have when the roads are bad.... Hmmmm, and heated seats.... decisions, decisions.
http://www.edmunds.com/used/1998/pontiac/grandprix/4drgtsedan/specs.html?id=lin0066
the same as the same engine in 1998 Intrigue:
http://www.edmunds.com/used/1998/oldsmobile/intrigue/4drglssedan/specs.html?id=lin0066
The rating of the engine increased by 5hp in the following year for Pontiac:
http://www.edmunds.com/used/1999/pontiac/grandprix/4drgtsedan/specs.html?id=lin0066
The torque probably also increased, by 5lbf. In the above spec sheet the lower torque was reported , however this probably is error. See data for the year 2000:
http://www.edmunds.com/used/2000/pontiac/grandprix/4drgtsedan/specs.html?id=lin0066
In 1999 Intrigue gradually switched to new 3.5l engine, starting from higher trims. The base GX trim still had the same "leftower" engine as in 1998.
http://www.edmunds.com/used/1999/oldsmobile/intrigue/4drgxsedan/specs.html?id=lin0066
Probably, it did not make sense to bother with engineering changes for the short production run.
So who knows where I can get strut tower braces for my 2000 Intrigue? I've looked all over online and can't find any! GRRRR! How about the air filter? Can anyone explain to me how to access it better than the owner's manual does?
My car is going in next monday for the following warranty work:
I still get a whistling noise from the passenger door. The technician better come with me and if he doesn't hear it maybe I'll just keep on driving till he does. I've had it with that problem that I've taken in three times now to fix. Can't find it my foot!
The transmission behaves strangely. Shifting and surging at odd times. I will settle for nothing less than a new transmission if they "can't duplicate the problem." They claimed they couldn't duplicate the headlight dim/flicker at first either.
Does anyone else have severely rusted rotors? I think this is very unusual for a car with only 20K
Did y'all know there is a TSB for the air dam? They've redesigned one with a higher ground clearance and it's quieter when it does scrape. That's definitely being replaced.
I'm going to make them tighten the shift lever. Since it's under warranty, I'm not even going to bother looking for the screw myself.
I can unroll my window and push the window down manually about an inch each time. This annoys me but at least I can have the window open and have it not creak as much when it's rolled down.
I preface the following with a pledge that I will not become engaged in an argument with the following person. I will now say my peace and be done with it. Dindak, I can surely appreciate your point of view but when I do post my pictures I don't wanna hear how you hate it or whatever, I hope you'll change your ways and just say you prefer it on the hood. So you can't imagine how it would look better, well so what? Maybe it's the language you use and maybe you don't intend to come across as hostile but honestly, I think you goad jgriff and a lot of others, and you jump on people that have anything remotely negative to say about GM or the Intrigue or anything positive to say about Honda or Toyota. We must remember (and I hope the host reads this) that the Intrigue was DESIGNED TO BE AN IMPORT FIGHTER! We cannot have a real and complete discussion about the Oldsmobile Intrigue without introducing and discussing how it stacks up with the foreign competition and how the competition stacks up with itself. I for one appreciate jgriff's point of view and the points of view of others who have had both positive and negative experiences with our Intrigues.
focus : Had 2 black cars and I love them BUT, they are a royal pain in the butt to keep clean. I say never again all the time but you never know. ;-)
My current Intrigue is Midnight Blue, close enought to black to make comparison. The silver (either one) doesn't show swirl marks very much, even if they're there. For that matter, it doesn't really show dirt! That was the one thing I loved about that color.
The blue will show swirl marks more. I bolded *will* because from day 2 of ownership, I've been using Meguiar's polish and wax. Said another way, I don't have swirl marks at all. My blue looks like a lake, almost like you can reach your hand down into it.
In addition to the polish and wax, I use Meguiar's "Quick Detailer", particularly after it rains to get the dirt off. I'll also hit it with "Quick Wax". I thought it wouldn't make a big difference since I'm using their "Gold Class" wax after polishing. But using the Quick Wax really brings out the color. I get complements all the time on the color (particularly by women, they love the blue! :-) so the stuff works.
That's probably more than you wanted to know but you did ask ;-)
Black looks best on the showroom floor.
Swirls marks again my opinion, Zainos products really do helps to put the right protection on your pride & joy.
NOTE: This forum has been extremely helpful in confirming the fact that I was NOT ALONE with the problems I had with my Intrigue. Thus meaning the collective sharing of information amongst others was/is greatly appreciated. I'm SO grateful for the internet medium [& Edmunds Town-Hall]. Otherwise I would have still been on my own, not knowing for sure if my car was simply a fluke or a pattern. Prior to 1998. [B.I. Before Internet] my good/bad car experiences were simply a guessing game.
dindak ::: Please be forewarned, I too am NOT trying to start anything here, just my thoughts, OK. So please, PLEASE, BE COOL.
And yes I think jg28 has some valid points, one of our main issues/squabbles [past & present] has always been the dreaded "foreign vs. domestic". Which our HOSTS were always telling us to AVOID or was NOT "on-topic". And two (2) is you most always take personal offense to just about anyone who has anything negative to say about the beloved Intrigue or GM.
You have many times stated that my Intrigue must have been a rarest of lemons, even though many others were having the same problems. Or that the Intrigue's plight, is no better or worse than the other competition. Could it be possible that you have the blinders on, and are in denial at times, or simply bias? Especially since you have been blessed with a virtually trouble-free Intrigue.
You didn't care for my views 12-18 months ago, and you still don't care for them today [that is fine, I have NO problems with differences of opinions]. However, I did not go out and buy an Intrigue in hopes that it would be crap, and that I would simply have something [non-permissible content removed] about. In fact just the opposite, I had such HIGH HOPES for this new model, and wanted to keep-it and cherish-it for a long, long time [much like you have been able to do].
And yes I will agree with you in-advance once again, in the past at times I may have came across in a wrong or inappropriate manner. It was not intentional, and I do deeply apologize to you and all others.
I'm thinking of ordering one and selling it if it doesn't fit. I can get a custom one done but don't have time to give up the car to get it measured up and tested.
Big problem with your theories is that the numbers don't back you up. Intrigue has AVERAGE reliability both according to JD Power and Consumer Reports. No doubt some people have bad car, always the case. My next door neighbor has had bad luck with his Accord. He thinks the car stinks. Numbers don't back up his theory either.
In the end statistics are not far from the truth. you can't argue with them. If you and a few others have had bad experiences that's too bad, but you can't apply what happened to you to everyone. That is what you can't seem to understand.
-belittled those who professed thier likes for the car
-lambasted anyone who indicated thier lack of problems with the car
-insulted those who supportted GM or some of it offerrings.
NOW your supposed to be kindler/gentler jgriff, who is simply been misunderstood.?
Additionally you state your support in seeing similar problems folks have. I can say the same for those who have not had problems here, supportting the contention that the car is not the awful piece you have prescribed for so long. Not needing the support for yourself anymore, as you got rid of the car, I state again that you should
leave here. Opinions are fine when having not been couched in terms making those who disagree being belittled. Your supposed
change of stripes, and ignorance of past transgressions here, gives me little comfort in future behavior.
I appreciate it.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
Come on, let the past go and get over it.
Keep cool, I do not want to re-instigate any previous battles.
And you are correct in that I envy those of you that have had a trouble-free experiences with your Intrigues [wished I could have been in the same boat].
And I also wish everyone nothing but the BEST, in all of your car/truck/SUV/cycles endeavors.
Like to hear about any thing new/ exciting about the last year of a great automobile.
My bro (who is a mechanic) says I should try the sway bars first but the website doesn't indicate that the sway bars they stock would fit the Intrigue, only the GP and the Regal. (The STB info indicates that they'll fit the Intrigue as well, so I'm reluctant to order the sway bars). Anyone think the sway bars would fit the Intrigue? That's what I'd most like to eliminate anyway... the sway in turns and cornering. (I took her up the canyon the other day and she just isn't tight and BMWish like she used to be. I'm hoping to gain that back with the additional rigidity equipment).
I'm keeping my pledge and saying nothing more about the topic that blossomed today from my previous post.
Keep us up to date on how things go for you.
This was at best both an unkind and unnecessary statement. It really did not help the dialogue here and added nothing to our knowledge regarding Intrigues. I am curious as to whether you have gone to the library. Ghost Soldiers was an incredible true story of American valour.
Really.
(And thanks very much to the folks who are continuing to try to do so, I really do appreciate that.)
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
The color combination wasn't very appealing to be truthful. The white is sort of a dirty white. I happened to park next to an Alero at a stop which was also white, and it was a very bright shade which looked better than the one used on the Intrigue. As for the gray interior, it was the typical mouse-fuzz gray and all I could think was that it would look really good if it was another color. I hate gray interiors.
But having said all that, I really liked the car. It made an interesting contrast to the Taurus I rented a month or so ago for a similar trip. Both are pretty good cars for the most part. They both handled well and had good pickup. But that Intrigue engine is a sweetheart. On the highway it was just wonderful when I needed to pass a car quickly. What a shame it will be discontinued.
Highway driving revealed very little road or wind noise and pretty good driving dynamics. I had a few times when I found the steering a little darty just off-center at speed, but it didn't always seem to be that way so it might have been a road condition or crosswinds (it was a very windy day). It handled great for the most part and the brakes are super too.
Aside from the upholstery the driver's seat was very comfortable once I got it adjusted right and I found the visibility pretty good, better than the Taurus. The only thing I found with the seat was a slight rocking that I felt a couple of times. I'd have to get that looked at if it was my car. But I found the control layout better than the Taurus' too, although the cruise button on the dash confused me for a while. The dash could use a little more trim I think, maybe some brightwork around the gauges or some wood or contrasting material on the dash somewhere. The all-gray was pretty oppressive and truthfully the dash looks like anycar. It needs something to jazz it up a bit.
I liked the stereo; had a bunch of my favorite Steely Dan disks with me and they sounded pretty good. I was also impressed with the size of the trunk.
What a shame they are discontinuing this car. It's really a crime. It's a good car already and if it had gotten a little more development I think it could be a world-beater. If they weren't discontinuing Olds, I think I would have one, and that's saying something coming from me because I don't care for most new cars I see these days. I still might have to go for one though, but I think I would need leather inside in a shade that wasn't gray, and a color other than this off-white. That engine just puts too much of a smile on my face.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Another question: where's the damn oil filter? I've looked everywhere and can't find it (haven't jacked the car up yet but if that's required I'll let someone else do the oil.)