Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans

bill124 · February 2002

Thanks for the input. Yes, it was Competition. I had my wife and kids there and didn't want to create a scene but I was really pissed when he said that because while they may be in demand, the Wall Street bucks just aren't flowing like they did early last year or the year before.

Socal. At invoice or a bit above? It almost makes sense to order out there, fly out and pick it up but driving cross country could be a pain. What do you think?

I checked Fairfield in Connecticut and he gave me the long wait list song and dance and said only MSRP, same with Mercedes Benz manhattan. Maybe need to try N.J. or philly. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

bill124 · February 2002

Does the CLK have an accents on the lower body work without the sport package or is it really non-existent? The car I saw had it and I really don't want the package but I like the look. Thanks.

nyccarguy · February 2002

My parents have owned Mercedes since 1990. Their current car's (1998 CLK 320) lease is up in April. A few months back they started looking again and naturally went to Mercedes first. They called a dealer and set up an appointment to test drive an E320, C320, & SLK320. They would walk into dealers and the dealers seemed to act as if they didn't need my parents' business. This is even before they started talking price. They've went to a few dealers and most of them had a terrible attitude. Mercedes-Benz lost repeat buyers. They ended up with an Audi A6. I wish I could help more. Maybe try and set up an appointment with the sales manager.

rainers · February 2002

Yes you can buy one from the dealer or go to http://www.autoclass.net/online_catalog/mercedes/203/electronics.html or http://clairparts.com/

You can buy the CD players there and have then installed at the dealer. Ask your dealer about the install cost. I paid around 200.00 but it was then under MB warrenty for 4 yrs.

Good luck

rbrenton88 · February 2002

I've noticed that quite a bit in the last few years. A few normal ones here and there, but the majority think they are beholden only to the royal family. I always get the creeps when walking into a benz showroom. It's like the stepford suits.

blakec320 · February 2002

I visited 3 Mercedes dealerships in Southern California and all of them were great experiences. A lot of time was taken with me and my test drives were thurough. I was treated with respect at all times (I'm 20), I was catered to and even served refreshments at one dealership. This has given me high hopes for my continued ownership experience, and Mercedes has certainly outclassed the other dealers down here in terms of Service for sure.

crankster · February 2002

Don't confuse "Sales" with "Service". I had great "service" when they were selling.

When I got to the "servicing" aspect , as in repairs, things quickly plummeted to Hyundai-like levels.

404c · February 2002

Trust me, wait for the 2003 model of the CLK - it's better looking than the rather chunky present-generation CLK. For example, the heaviness in the rear (sort of like automotive "thunder thighs") is gone, replaced by a CL-type lightness of design. The C-pillar is a lot lighter too. Check it out: http://mbspy.bacosys.be/c209filo.htm

If you like the present CLK design, certainly don't pay more than a clearance price for it. Go into the dealer with a colour printout of the new CLK body and say you might settle for an old one if the price is low enough. Hardball is the rule!

socalheat · February 2002

Bill,
To answer your question. YES ...dealer invoice...not one penny more...including all options with car at dealer cost also. As time gets closer to the release of the new "E" it only makes sense to deplete the 2002 stock on hand. The deal was too good to pass up. My wife loves the body style and its such a different drive than the C320. I prefer a more sporty drive, but when you want to just relax and enjoy a very comfortable drive then the "E" is fantastic. It's all a matter of preference. I don't see any reason why they should'nt be seeling the CLK's at dealer cost also.

fedssocr · February 2002

Thanks for posting the link to the new CLK info. It really does look great. I loved the current CLK when it was introduced and the new one looks even better. But I kinda wish they had saved to headlight design from the current model. Any idea what prices will be like? Paying 35K for my C240 was about my upper limit I'm afraid.

I saw that new Infiniti G35 at the Toronto auto show and thought it looked great. Seems like this segment of the market is getting even more crowded.

nyccarguy · February 2002

Start at the $40K mark. I'm sure Mercedes will have no trouble selling them at that price.

chapter · February 2002

Ordered the car, waited 6 months and took delivery in October 2001. C240 with all options except command.

At 300 miles the sunroof would not close. Dealer fixed it.

At 720 miles the sunroof would not close.
Dealer fixed it.

On a long trip, the low beam left Xenon went out. Tele-Aid said to go to a local gas staion and buy a bulb...on I95 in South Carolina!.. Something tells me that they dont stock $400 xenons in the local station!

On that same trip the ESP/BAS malfunctioned. On an off every few restarts of the car.
The car went in for servicing 3 times in December and January to fix it. After the fourth time, I started the lemon law process in Florida. On the 4th repair trip...it seems they might have fixed it by replacing 4 parts of the brake system including the "brake master"

Now this week, the car idles roughly and has stalled two times back and forth to work on I95 traffic in South Florda.

Sorry, but I now give up on this car. PLEASE NOTE: Mercedes is not a member of the better Business Bureau (many manufactures are) and you can read that in the state of Florida they contest with lawyers, every Lemon Law case. Other makers just settle with the Better Business Bureau requests.

If you want me to send you the letters I have sent Mercedes USA and Mercedes Benz Fort Lauderdale, let me know on this message board.

chapter · February 2002

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/24/automobiles/24AUTO.html

"For years, Mercedes has cut costs in an effort to hold the line on prices. Materials that look and feel relatively cheap have been showing up even in expensive models like the S-Class sedan, but have been especially notable in the M-Class sport utility. At the same time, the revered Mercedes brand has been dropping in quality and durability rankings.

One such survey by TUV, a German auto-inspection and research association, which measured durability during the first three years of ownership, ranked half a dozen Toyotas ahead of the highest-rated Mercedes, the SLK. (It was No. 12.) Over all, the TUV survey found that Mercedes quality and customer satisfaction had been falling since 1999, and had dropped below the ranking of General Motors' Opel subsidiary.

In North America, Mercedes fell last year to 10th place, from 6th, in a J. D. Power & Associates study that measured dependability after four to five years of ownership. The study found 296 problems for every 100 Mercedes vehicles, compared with 173 problems for Lexus, which has been ranked first for seven years.

None of these issues  declining quality, budget materials, possible brand erosion  may matter much to those who buy the C230. But they pose risks for a company with a century-old reputation for automotive superiority.

"

ctic · February 2002

Forget about quality, service is very poor. In the 3-4 years which I have serviced the car at the dealer, the quality of the service has dropped tremendously.

404c · February 2002

Can you be specific about the decline in service quality?

Heh, my old Peugeots are looking more and more like the sensible alternative to a new car...

eos · February 2002

Ctic, I am curious to know where you have been getting your car(s) serviced.

benz747 · February 2002

I have 2002 C 240; i experienced similar problem -I just wanted to know what do you mean by stalled! in my case I was on Red signal and the car become quiet; I thought I need ignition but after few seconds CAR started - it was so fast I could not think logically what would have been happened! are you talking same thing or you had to start CAR by ignition KEY; please advise - thanks

mleskovar · February 2002

sounds like the fuel pump problem often mentioned with the first Cs.

djasonw · February 2002

I figured I'd give everyone an update on my early 2001 (built 7/2000) C320 Sport. I leased this car at dealer cost because they couldn't get rid of it (Amethyst). This color does NOT do the car any justice which is why I am not thrilled with it. I think silver really makes the car look sharp. Well.. getting back to my owner experience, I have NOT ever had to bring the car to the dealer other than A service. I currently have over 15,000 miles and I have this to say. I would probably NOT get another Mercedes. The cost of this vehicle is simply NOT justified. I'd rather have an Audi A4 (quattro is great as I had a '96). I enjoyed my '96 A4 more than my Benz. I figured I'd chime in to let some people know that not all C's are problematic. I simply haven't fallen in love with this car. I also had a 2000 C280 which I regret trading for this car. At least that car felt like a tank. This car does NOT exude that fault like structure.

newmbfan · February 2002

We just finished our 1st year with the C240. 18,000 miles. Key problem of course. No big deal. Windshield Washer reservoir cracked and was replaced. Mileage in the 23-24 MPG range.

We did expeirence the ruff idle problem twice in the last month. The service manager explained that MB engineers were aware of fuel injection software problem that they have not solved yet. He offered to replace the FI system but warned me that it would have the same software and may or may not fix the problem. He suggested that we wait till the 24,000 mile service before replacing the system and that the software issue should be resolved by then. While I was not thrilled with that answer, at least he seemed honest and sincere about the whole thing.

Overall we like the car and are satisfied with the service. We just acquired a second puppy so we may move up to a C320 wagon.

jrct9454 · February 2002

...too bad the corporation can't keep up with the pace of new technology that it insists on putting in these cars. At least in a recent interview, the top execs in the company in Germany are no longer stonewalling and denying that there are problems out there, notwithstanding that MBUSA execs still insist all is well.

The upcoming E will be a big test - the last time a troublesome E debuted [the W124 in '85-'86], there were practically riots in the streets of Stuttgart from the legions of angry cab drivers and other regular E buyers who were ready to lynch somebody over the problems in the early cars. Hubbert and Schremp claim they are on the case...we'll see...

nanky · February 2002

Mikki,

It's been a while. How's the Obsidian sibling faring? Two trips to Vegas, just a few chips on the hood, and 13K later, the car is still a blast to drive. Just had the A service done a couple of weeks ago. Learned my lesson on those long trips. If you can, stay away from letting those trucks into the passing lane ahead of you. What you get in return is a shower of hard flying granules of sand and rock. That hurts.

peter84 · February 2002

Thought some of you would want to know that after 15 months of almost monthly problems with my 2001 C 320 and several meeting with the Dealership and the Mercedes regional rep they made a deal I could live with. They offered me full trade in value for the car at the original purchase price and a new E Class at deal cost. We picked up the new E last Monday. I think (hope) it will be a problem free car. At least it's reputation is good. It's quite a bit bigger than the C 320, seems to have a smoother ride with more power, and it has a more comfortable feel though we haven't driven it that much so far. It's interesting that some of the things that are standard on the C 320 are not included in the E Class such as headlight washers, a rear window sun shade, a more advanced Bose radio (the one in the E doesn't have settings for ambience, driver and speech) and some of the other electronic goodies, but those aren't really big deals, and the fancy electronics were part of the problems we were constantly having with the C Class. Also, since Mercedes is coming out this summer with a new E Class my guess is they probably didn't want to invest much more in the current one. In any case, Mercedes finally came through and did the right thing I believe, and I can't complain (at least as long as the new car is reliable and pretty maintenance free.

nyccarguy · February 2002

Its is a lesson for all of you who are having problems with your Cs. Complain to MBUSA and keep complaining until you get results.

Peter: Unlike your C which was the first MY of the production run, your E is the last model year of a 6 year production run (The Current Body style was introduced in late 1995 as a 1996 model). To say that it should be bulletproof as far as reliability goes is an understatement. It probably doesn't have some of the electronic goodies like you said, but the '03 E will. Good luck with your new E320!

sandiegotom · February 2002

Just checking in to report that my 01' C320 has reached 16 months and 13,000 miles with no problems. Still a smooth, quiet, powerful, and fun car to drive. Everything works like it's supposed to, although I don't use many of the "gadgets" like the seat/wheel retraction when you get out, etc. I did get the car realigned at the first FSS; it would drift to the right if I took my hands off the wheel. Even though this is not a good way to drive, I mentioned it to the Service Writer, who had a "Camber Kit" installed. The Kit reduces steering sensitivity to road crown. Still don't drive much with my hands off the wheel, but the rightward drift is pretty well gone.

Tom

crankster · February 2002

Congrats peter84, I have a C240 that has had similar problems to yours, i.e tires, wheels, new transmission, driveshaft, rearend+. Could you email me in further detail about your problems and the end resolution? Thanks. bill@niuminc.com

diwc240 · February 2002

Well Done Peter, good to see your Mercedes Dealer (name / Washington D.C.) come thru with "After Sales Service" (albeit took 15 months)...or at least concern & respect for their Customer.
I have nothing but the highest of praise for my Mercedes Dealer in Jersey = Millennium.
Ian

bill124 · February 2002

Well, I think I found my car. 2002 at list, white, blue top. Took a while and lots of time. If things go well, I get it on Saturday.
I can't open the link to the '03s, and I know what you guys say about playing hardball, but I called up and down the East Coast as well as Chattanooga, TN and I was out of luck. Dealers in NY, NJ, Pa, Virginia, Connecticut tell you pay a premium if you want it now. They don't call you back if you tell them no. It's just over. Maybe it's not that way elsewhere in the good old USA, and maybe if I wanted to wait a while until the summer is over, I'd be better off. Punch in my zipcode (11596) on cars direct for this car and even there it has a $1,000 premium. I'll know tomorrow if the car is mine. If not, I'm back to waiting for someone to call on a cancelled car or placing an order (some say 5 months, some say 8 months, etc.).

Any thoughts???

Kirstie_H · February 2002

We are looking for lawyers (any age, sex, kind of car) who are car nuts.

Please respond by March 9 to lordusky@aol.com

Any questions? Contact Edmunds.com PR at jfallon@edmunds.com

Thanks!
kirstie_h
Roving Host
Edmunds.com

tclaw · February 2002

There are probably many of them participating, including me--this is after all a Mercedes site--but we're trained to be a suspicious lot. So, please explain a bit what you have in mind.

paul_p · February 2002

I will not have started my 2000 C-Class for 6 weeks - does anyone have any hints as to the best way to fire it up (i.e., let it idle for 5 minutes beofre driving off or run the shifter through all gears at idle)?

Also, it looks like I will be moving north to New England and may store the car in the winter. Does anyone know of a website or have info related to the best way to do this?

nyccarguy · February 2002

If you're going to, I suggest you over inflate the tires and change the oil before you store it.

nyccarguy · February 2002

I suggest you run the car hard before you store it.

shipo · February 2002

I assume that your car has already been sitting for the six weeks, if so, start it, wait 15 seconds, and drive normally. There is no benefit to letting it idle; in fact, idling is more harmful than driving at moderate speed.

Best Regards,
Shipo

pat · February 2002

That message is a request that Edmunds PR director received. Usually, someone wants to write an article for a newspaper or a magazine, but I'm not sure why they are asking this time. You can drop Jeannine an email asking what she has in mind if you'd like. Just click on her address in Kirstie's message.

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

afmbguy · February 2002

Does anybody know where to buy mobile-1 0-40W in NYC or NJ areas? Normal shops don't carry it. I know a MB dealer charge $45 for oil change labor.
Also does anyone has a successful fix in the ticking noise near the dash. It comes on and off.
I have found that a 'Rubermaid bottle bush' with a round head that effectively cleans brake dust w/o a scratch in wheels.
So far my C320 runs like a champ w/o any problems. My MPG improves as time goes by: 21 city, 26-28 hiway.

shipo · February 2002

I have only found one place for Mobil 1 0W-40 here in the US. I cannot give you a link to it, because the link has changed a few times since I found in last fall, however, I can give you instructions on how to find the web site:

Go to: http://shopping.yahoo.com
Enter into the search box: mobil 1 0w-40
Execute the search.
On the results page, you will see a "Park Place Porsche", "Park Place Motors", "Park Place Mercedes-Benz" or a "Park Place something"

These folks sell Mobil 1 0W-40, I bought mine from them and had my oil in hand in about a week.

Best Regards,
Shipo

michhala · March 2002

Here I am Nanky -- I posted not too long ago to put in cheers for my C320 2001 and to express my wonder that those posting with tremendous problems with theirs have not gone for replacement cars. So far so good with my Obsidian

, and it will be one-year old May 31. Not quite as much mileage as yours, and I still love the way it looks and handles, particularly the high speeds

Very few chips and they are not even as large as the head of a pin. I scraped the front bumper a bit, though, on Monday and had the MB color man come out Tuesday and restore to its original perfection. LOL -- I could not wait to get home that day to call him.

I don't come to the Forum as often as I used to because so many of the posts are angry and full of complaints. This depletes some of the joy I am experiencing with the Obsidian. In addition, I have not received any responses to the last few posts or began any dialogues.

At what mileage did you have your A service done? Methinks the Obsidian might go a little longer than a year before hitting 10K. If you remember, I had been advised by my friendly Service Parts and Operations manager not to do an earlier one.

The Obsidian sends regards to its twin.

Miki

michhala · March 2002

Congrats Peter -- it only took me three months -- but those three months seemed like three years.

Miki

benz747 · March 2002

I own a 2002 C 240; at the time of order I did not go with COMMAND option, I just wondering if I can get it now ; My dealer said NO it is factory installed - any thoughts !!

thanks

Kirstie_H · March 2002

Is anyone out there participating either in a formal or informal "car-sharing" deal? I'm looking for folks (other than spouses) who co-own luxury vehicles. If you fit the bill, or know someone who does, I'm hoping you'll contact me by Wednesday, March 6 with your contact information, the type of vehicle you share, and your city and state of residence. Thanks much!
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com
jfallon@edmunds.com

rbrenton88 · March 2002

with another family led to enough bickering. I can't imagine having to co-own a car with anyone.

nanky · March 2002

Mikki,

Likewise, I haven't posted in a while. The tone on the forum has shifted a bit and although I sympathize with all the reported problems, I have been fortunate enough to have ended up with an awesome car. I heeded the advice of my service counsellor, despite the very enlightening exchanges that took place on the forum earlier, and did not change the oil early. The A service was performed at 12,500 miles at which time the computer still showed 200 miles to go. Prior to that, my service folks told me they would perform the service within 1,200 miles of what the computer recommended. Just didn't have time to take it in earlier. At some point, I thought I had a problem with the mirrors only to realize it was self inflicted. I was releasing the seat position button a second too soon after the seat returned to my position thereby not allowing the passenger side mirror to fully adjust. Since I figured that out, it's been flawless.

The sibling is awesome!! I find myself easing off the gas pedal quite a bit because it closes up on other cars very quickly. I am still glad I chose the Obsidian.

jrct9454 · March 2002

...which is awesomely complicated at best, is indeed installable only at the factory.

MB has hired Nokia to help them redesign the notoriously complex COMAND interface so ordinary mortals can use the system without a 5 lb owner's manual. The MB engineers, who are inordinately proud of their creation, have taken notable offense, but management decided they needed some help from a company that has a rep for keeping it understandable and intuitive. I forget the target date for the redesign, but it should be in the next couple of model years.

The system is simply too complex, and interfaces with too many of the car's subsystems, to be trusted to be installed at the dealer level. I'm not a fan of this option, so don't think you've missed much, but everyone has a different opinion. In any case, the corporation is weary of the automotive press frying them about this system, so a redesign is in the cards.

bill124 · March 2002

I have it in the car I'm picking up and in the CLK it also serves as a CD player, though it only does one cd at a time. I wouldn't have ordered but it was in the car.

michhala · March 2002

Nanky wrote:
>I heeded the advice of my service counsellor, >despite the very enlightening exchanges that >took place on the forum earlier, and did not >change the oil early.

Nanky -- When the MB Service and Parts Operations Regional Manager personally returned my call and told me he would rather I not change my oil before the scheduled A service, I took his advice. He told me he had seen too many engines not being properly broken in when the oil change was performed before the FSS scheduled A service. After the A service, he said I could do it more often if I wished, although it was not necessary. Since there had been so much discussion about the subject even when the car was delivered with the Mobil 1 Synthetic, I posted this info on the forum and many, many posters disagreed and disputed it. Whatever! I chose to listen to the MB Regional Manager -- after all, it was with his help that I was able to get the replacement Obsidian.

Every few months, I might find a time when the mirror drifts once -- sometimes it is if I start the car and press the garage door opener button at the same time.

Thanks for information on your mileage at the A service. I think at the one-year anniversary I will ask the service advisor if I should wait more than a year to have the service performed even though I have not hit the 10K mark and the computer has not scheduled it.

I miss our old group -- am still in touch -- some participate at MBNZ, but they still browse here now and then.

Miki

nanky · March 2002

Mikki wrote >>even though I have not hit the 10K mark and the computer has not scheduled it.

Mikki, the computer has already scheduled your A service based on driving conditions and there is a way of telling the number of miles remaining long before it is due. To do so, you will need to scroll through the computer screens. I don't have the car here and thus cannot be specific as to the exact screen. What I noticed is that with about 1K or so miles to go, a reminder screen appeared each time I turned the key to start the engine. Happy 9th month!!

michhala · March 2002

Nanky wrote:

>the computer has already scheduled your A >service based on driving conditions and there is > way of telling the number of miles remaining >long before it is due

Nanky -- I thought everyone knew that although I was blonde I did not think like one LOL.

My thinking was thus and I might have written it in blonde language: Although the computer does the scheduling and shows how many miles remain until the A service, it might be advisable to check with the service dept to ask if they thought it advisable to wait until that time even if it took 12-18 months to reach the number.

Thanks for your efforts -- appreciate.

Miki
Blondes Have Their Own Language!

fedssocr · March 2002

I just had my oil changed for the first time last month. I do not drive my car very much, and thus in the first year have only accumulated 5300 miles. I decided that a year was probably a good time to change the oil but I did not ask if I should do it now or wait until FSS says to do it. The service advisor didn't say anything one way or the other, but just wrote up the work order because I asked for an oil change. I paid $72 including synthetic oil. They told me I could have "regular" oil for $49, but I went for the synthetic. I also had them do my state inspection and they did not charge me at all for that, so that saved me $10 which was something I did not expect them to do. It was my first exposure at all to the service department and it was pleasant enough.

I did note a faint buring oil smell though the first few days after the oil change, but that seems to have dissipated now.

bill124 · March 2002

I used the Comand System in getting my car home this weekend since to get it at MSRP I had to leave Long Island and head upstate. It really was a help and gave me a different and more efficient way back home than the traditional internet map services. It also gives traffic delays, weather, etc. and is pretty cool. I wouldn't go out of my way to get it but I think if it's there, it isn't bad and is worth the money.

Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans

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