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Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans
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Comments
Here's what I know :
-Cs for the American market [both North and South American] are made in Germany [principally Rastatt and Bremen, but some in Sindelfingen] and Brazil. There are no Mexican plants assembling passenger cars for Mercedes.
-The Brazilian plant assembles so-called knock-down kits, which means that most of the parts and assemblies are not manufactured on site, but come from overseas sources - again principally Germany, but also South Africa.
-RHD Cs are currently made for all right-hand-drive markets [UK, Japan, Australia, etc] in South Africa.
For all practical purposes, the US market is served almost exclusively by the German plants; the Brazilian cars are out there, but they make up a very small proportion of cars on US dealer lots.
I have no idea where the assertion that these cars are made in Mexico came from - another urban legend, I suppose...or confusion because VW, Honda, Nissan, and many others have plants in Mexico. DCX [the big parent] has Mexican factories, but no MB cars are produced there - examples do include the PT Cruiser and some models of heavy-duty Class 8 trucks.
What MB should do is have some kind of lifetime subscription to teleaid, $1000 for life, transferable to every new MB you own. That would be a fair deal, and help with followup buyers who had the subscription and had an incentive to buy another MB to continue using it.
As for German workers, they made out in our case because we were impressed with our ML so much, we opted for MB's C-Class when it came time to replace the Honda.
As for where our C-Class was made, this issue came up recently in an earlier post, which you may be interested to read, as follows:
#6045 of 6276 Heard of Brazilian-assembled "C"s?
by mac320 Nov 09, 2002 (1:40 pm)
It was news to me. A German car enthusiast told me you cannot tell except for the VIN number: if your "C" was assembled in Germany, there will be a letter "A" or "F" followed by six more numbers at the very end of the VIN number, whereas the Brazilian-assembled "C"s will have one of three different letters
Apparently, even though some "C"s are assembled in So. America, they're considered 100% "Made in Germany" because every part comes from Germany (I don't know where the Brazilian "C"s are painted). By comparison, in the production facility in Alabama where MLs are assembled, only the most expensive elements for the ML come from Germany, like the engine, drive train, electronics, &etc., whereas the body parts are made in the U.S.
I read recently that German workers cost 50% more and are less productive compared to U.S. workers. Using Brazilian labor probably offers an even greater economic value than US workers.
Once "C" body parts are made in Brazil instead of just being assembled like a Heathkit radio, MB will have a competitive product to offer West Coast buyers, i.e., a better made "C" at a lower price. I hear the Brazilian-assembled "C"s are actually better than from Germany.
Some will recall that my car was keyed and required painting of the entire passenger side. It was in the shop for ten days (this included a weekend), and methinks it looks good. There are a few places (inside frame of door, near small window, on bumper) where there are slight overruns of paint. It can only be seen in certain lights and I am taking the car to the shop tomorrow for them to rectify. I brought the car to Lasky Coachworks in West Los Angeles. They are extremely nice and the owner, who is a car collector and car enthusiast -- IOW a car nut -- is on the premises at all times.
Miki
I purchased by C230 on April 3, 2002. For the first few weeks the car was wonderful. Then the trouble began. In the course of the next 10 months, the following defects occurred:
1) The rear seat cushion was defective and had a large bump in it. This was replaced.
2) The parking brake stopped working and had to be tightened.
3) The car pulled to the right. Three alignments were done to no avail. The dealer now blames the problem on the snow tires (even though the problem existed before the snows were installed, and despite the fact that Mercedes expressly advises customers to install snow tires).
4) The headlights did a fine job of illuminating the house numbers along the right side of the road but did little to light the road. They had to be aligned twice.
5) The rear shock bolts came loose (not in connection with any driving hazard) and had to be replaced.
6) The stick shift and pedals vibrated so much that the dealer changed the engine mounts. Problem is no much better.
7) Floating mirror problem that others have had. Dealer changed the controller and the problem was corrected.
8) The bumper fascia behind the left rear wheel came loose and had to be reattached.
9) Endless creaks, pops, rattles and squeaks. The sunshades on the panoramic roof had to be replaced because they were rattling around like loose bolts. The trunk lid has been “lubricated” several times to stop it from creaking like an old door hinge when driving. The dash and the glove box had to be tightened down as they were giving off loud “pops” when driving. Felt tape has been installed on the combar (I don’t know what that is but it’s what they said was the problem) to stop a rear rattle, and around the rear seat trim to stop squeaking. The tail gate panel trim had to be adjusted to stop a rattle and the tailgate shocks had to be replaced for the same reason.
All of this has not stopped the problems. The alignment still pulls to the right. When I close the center blue air vent the air diffuser lets out a loud high pitched whistle. The dealer says this is normal but not a single loaner car I was given made this noise. The trim on the “B” pillar has come loose and constantly makes a cracking and popping sound. The tail rattle still comes and goes (sounds like a loose tailpipe). Lastly, the driver’s headrest intermittently fails to lower when the seat is pulled up in the entry/exit position. When this happens I have to remove the headrest and reinstall it to reset it.
In 10 months of ownership the car has been in the shop for 44 working days.
Have others had these kinds of problems? Is this a lemon or do I do as others and sell it and cut my loses. I actually love the C230 but I hate this car. Every week it’s a new problem. Any suggestions?
Miki
Here is a site that you might look at. It covers the lemon laws in all states in the U.S.:
www.123car.com/lemon/lemonby state.html
This may be of some help to you.
Good luck, hope all works well in your search
for correct solutions for all of these things.
Go to CarsDirect.com and configure the car the way you want it. Then you have a good firm idea of the price the region is currently supporting. In our area, 3000 miles away from you in CA, CD is always within a couple of hundred dollars of the floor that is there in the marketplace; they are not always the low bidder, but always close.
And, if all else fails, you can let them go get the car for you - which is after all, why they are in business; at worst, you've got a place to start.
Have been gone for a while. Hope most of you are enjoying your cars.
after almost 3weeks of shopping and making a decision betwen c class and bmw325i I made my decision for the c class 230 sport sedan with cd changer and options c2 and c4, my question is did anyone bought the car and how is the driving also how much they pay for it mine total cost was $31500
In particular I'm wondering what 0-60 time is for comparison; for reference C320 I've seen as 6.9s. The MB USA site lists C230K manual as TBD...Also, am looking for any good pictures of this particular model; might save me a drive down to the dealer for a bit of snooping...
Also, (John?) where does this four cylinder K engine come from? I though MB had eliminated the 4 banger with the W201? Or is this one of the "new" 4 cyl engines I heard about available in Europe (i.e. does it have 4 valve heads or unobtanium alloy passages) or what?
Most recent W202 C experience I had was when I rented a C200 Classic in the UK, week before last, with the new C autobox; interesting drive, never did use the autobox though. I read the manual in the hotel and decided it was basically the same mechanism as in my W201 C, albeit via software vs. a mechanical lever.
This particular model (from Avis -- threw myself on the mercy of the counter man for an upgrade) had 12K miles on it and still felt pretty tight. Good throttle response (much better than W201) and tracked pretty flat through the corners. Good steering, light but direct. I felt the build quality for this right hand drive model was not the same as the one I'd test driven in Orlando last fall. Perhaps its due to the different trim lines in the UK (Is it still Classic, Avant Garde, Elegance?) vs the States. Seemed a bit noiser too. Certainly the "feel" of the shift lever was different -- more floppy and less direct than the state-side version - but this is small cheese.
Drove it from Bristol airport to Worcestershire then down the M40 to Gatwick, so had a pretty good haul in it. Felt very stable at 70+ (ahem) in the intermittent rain/mist. It was nice to drive in the UK again where they will move over out of lane 3 on the Motorway for you vs. here in the States where folks seem not to know much about efficient passing on interstates.(!)
Thanks all...stay warm...Rich in Orlando where with the wind chill it was 79F today...:)
Years ago when I was more cost-conscious, it seemed like most of the time the warped, scored rotors were too worn overall to turn anyway - and bringing them to a shop to have them turned was usually just a waste of my time. Out of about a dozen brake jobs I did on various autos over the years, I think I was only able to have the rotors turned once.
I would pay the extra $ for safety, anyway. There are too many dollars, not to mention my life and other peoples', dependent on the performance of the brakes.
Just my 2cents...
- Paul
I'd like to know whether anybody else has a similar problem and/or had any success convincing the dealer / Daimler USA to properly repaint the front (bumper and the hood)under warranty. The Service Manager of my dealer basically refused to even discuss the issue. My next step is to contact the regional rep.
We get the highest-rated engine for the US market's W203 Cs. Go here for a complete explanation:
http://mbspy.bacosys.be/M271.htm
Oil-based enamel and acrylics WERE great paints; they are gone forever from the factories of mass-market manufacturers. Might as well accept this...air quality standards cannot be met with these kinds of paints, and that is that, until the technology evolves some more, as it no doubt will.
Checked Sunday and local dealer here in Central Fl has 2x6 speed sport C230K 1 in Pewter, 1 in Black with C2 package and in dash CD player...which is darn close to the spec I would select. Noticed torque seems to be produced lower down (192 ft pnd at 3500 RPM), which usually gives me the impression (and it may not, indeed, be just an impression) of a more responsive and fun to drive car. I must say the wheel and tyre combination did not thrill me; I suppose they are targeting a younger (ahem) market with these, which is fair enough. They did seem a little on the "over the top" side to me, but they certainly fill the wheel wells with a purpose. Methinks may have to book a test drive...
One passing observation on the seeming surfeit of model choices, one rather suspects a "freshening" of the C class styling in '04 is in the works as it would make sense in the middle of the product cycle (01 to 07). I seem to recall someone in another forum (germancarfans.com?) saying that the C would also get the in dash CD player in '04 that many have complained about (I've gotten used to the trunk mounted CD in mine -- and I use the cassette tape player for pre-recorded comedy tapes -- but call me a philistine:)
rj
In reference to your comment on the wheel/tire combo, you are right, if it wasn't for the look of those rims, I would never have given the C-class another look. I'm 28 years old and I always loved the body style, but thought the wheels in 16inch guise were a little too wimpy. Plus, I needed to have the manual and thought the 6spd C240 was still too sluggish. But, I loved the C230's throttle response and placed my order down for one back on 1/29/03.
But to back up your comment, I do believe this look was targeted towards people like me and it worked like a charm!!
Tony
For a model of how this is usually handled, look to the difference between the '97 and '98 W202s, or the similar tweaking for the W210 E at midlife. IMO, these kinds of fiddlings can go either way - I liked the latter version of the W202 C, but preferred the earlier version of the W210 E...not that DB sought my opinion, of course.
I like the combination of engineering and styling that DB uses on the C class (and all the models to be fair) and believe its the runaway "best" combination for me. Sure, there will be a few mechanical problems, and it will cost a little more, but, to drive the car, makes up for it...
Agree with you re: the younger market, I succumbed to having the Laurel wood trim and autobox on my "old" '99 C Class. The thing drives like a tank (I should know - my group at work designs tank simulators) but unfortunately also stops and corners like one:( I guess I was being sensible -- after all anyone who bought a "sports" model that I owned would naturally assume it had been thrashed.
I almost leapt off my seat when I read that the C320 was going to be offered in '03 with a 6 speed. Cool, said I, this might be the car I can finally convince The Boss that I can buy...
of course the other problem was separating me from 40 large in order to buy one...plus as you say there were the cuddly 16" rims.
Now, I next discovered a C could be had attached to a Kompressor 1.8L DOHC engine with 16V heads, I thought, Ach du Lieber.
So here is what I am hoping to find on a test drive of a C230K (all are comparisons with my car:)
o Stiffer ride
o Snappier throttle reponse
o Faster 0-60 time
o Ability to downshift into the gear *I* want, and mash the throttle when *I* want, and hold the gear *I* want through a corner
o Revvier, looser engine (hard to describe but I guess I attribute this expectation to years of reading Road and Track about Italian DOHC engines...
Of course, as the man said, "there is no substitute for cubic inches", but he didn't have to pay for it (who said that anyway?) and I suppose you could just get a C320 and just mash the throttle, but I'm now thinking there is a big dip of just plain driving enjoyment with the smaller K engine, and the challenge of hand, eye, foot, and general mechanical coordination required to
drive smoothly. Not fast mind you, that's for the race track, just smoothly...
Oh, I need to admit somewhere in here that I turned 44 this month, but in my defense I *do* own a vintage '67 Cooper S that I drive for fun...
Take care...rich
Sooo, I figured I'd test out the C230 Sport Sedan and look for a lot of the same qualities you were looking for. Here are my findings:
Stiffer Ride--ABSOLUTELY!! The sport tuned suspension in conjunction with the Z-rated tires provide an extremely entertaining ride. Forget what you know about the plain jane, plush C320 or C240 ride, this one rocks. Cornering is spirited and grip is awesome. Keep in mind that you get a little more road noise and are well aware of any potholes or road imperfections, but it is definitely tuned the way I like it.
As I said in my previous post, the throttle response is excellent. There is a tad bit of turbo lag in first gear (due to the MB supercharger), but with the proper amount of rpm, you can eliminate this all together. Second and third gear are a BLAST!
0-60 Time--7.6 seconds. The C320 Sport Sedan is supposed to be 6.9. . .soooo, I don't know about you, but .7 seconds is not worth $9000! I would imagine the C320 would be a little more quiet on its way to 60, but I enjoy a little engine note when I'm revving it up!
The ability to downshift is of course always there with the manual tranny. That is the only transmission that I have ever owned and have always loved feeling as one with the car and having the car do what I want, when I want.
Now in the "revvier, looser engine" category, I did find that I was hitting the red line a little quickly in first and second gear. I kinda wish it had a little more play. I had to shift a little earlier than I normally would, but I would imagine this is attributed to the close gear ratios of the 6spd. I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but that was my take anyway.
I found the car easy to drive smoothly in stop and go traffic, but I found it to be a lot more fun on those interstate on ramps!!
Let me know how your test drive went.
Congrats on your order.
Even if the 0-60 time is just 0.7 sec slower than a 320 (more than 10% slower), the higher torque of the 320, even at low rpms, provides great mid-range performance in the kind of driving that you can appreciate in many normal driving situations, and it quietly loafs up very steep hills without having to peck around for the right gear. I'm not knocking the 4-cyl, but if you're looking for some excuses to spend more money, the 320 is a great engine.
The real difference between the 230 Komp and the 320 is more like $5,000 (if you take into account that you can actually buy the C320 for near invoice). I am not sure whether I overpaid to get the C320, but I test drove the 230 Kompressor, and I was not impressed by the cheap looking interior and the hesitation on acceleration. Also the bigger tires also substantially increased the road noise. The look of the sport model is much nicer, but I bought the C320 because I wanted a better overall driving comfort experience (inside) rather than the mere prestige of impressing people because I have a car that has an impressive outside appearance. I really do think that the 230 Kompressor is a good deal, but the 230/240 and the 320 are really in different classes for performance and interior comfort. Just my opinion, of course.
And lastly, in reference to saabber's comments on the interior of the c230, I love the textured aluminum. You called this interior "cheap looking", well this is the same interior (different AMG leather aside) that MB uses in the C32 AMG for over $51K. The aluminum look is supposed to look sporty, and I really dig it. In response to the driving experience, you and I were definitely looking for two different types of ride comfort. The c230 is more harsh and does have more road noise (but I like the sporty ride), but I find the c320 to be a little too plush and lacking of feedback.
But lastly, I love the c320. I think it is an awesome car, and in sport sedan/6spd guise, definitely a vehicle I would drool over. I just couldn't justify the extra $6500.
Happy motoring!
I must say - $31.5k for a car as good as this with the prestige (and service) of MB is pretty impressive. They will sell a lot of these I think to those looking in this "sports sedan" category who really want the type of ride that goes with that genre, as I do.
I may order in the am!
I saw a couple comments from drivers of C230K who talked of hesitation -- I must say I'm a bit surprised. I thought the point of a supercharged engine was that the forced induction was mechanically driven i.e. the increase in air pressure above ambient was ALWAYS taking place hence there "should" be no lag associated with pressure build-up vis a vis a turbocharger, correct?
Not being a mech E, could someone else comment about this? It might stand to reason that the supercharger would pump more air at progressively higher RPM, but wouldn't it be tuned to provide the required boost at XX RPM and the excess be vented to a waste gate of some kind?
This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine on my current '99 C class; you basically have to decide to accelerate about 2 seconds before you *really* need to in order to time the engine/transmission finally giving you enough power to get you going.
As the interior, I see Tony's point that the textured alum trim would appeal to the younger folk; yet I find it strangely gratifying to polish the wood trim in my Silver car...I guess its some kind of wierd imagined personal connection with the brand heritage of Mercedes Benz; I mean, Stirling Moss' 300SLR was silver and had wood trim, right?
All the best...
rj
RJ, I am still waiting to hear your impressions after test driving the car, now get off your butt and head down to your local dealer and drive the thing!!:)
I heard some better deals are available in Miami but that is further from me.
After all,it is just a car, it will depreciate, and there are many more just like it if you look for it.
Does anyone know of a good online resource for Mercedes parts? Tail light bulbs, tail light housings, body panels... etc. I would like to get a clue of what the cost to repair is going to look like before I take it to a local shop or a Mercedes dealer.
Also, any thoughts on whether to have it fixed at Mercedes or a local shop would be good as well.
Thanks for the help.
http://www.gprparts.com/
http://www.adsitco.com/
Here's a start...there are many more if you search. I had a dent in the roof that the MB dealer wanted $1200 to fix and I had it repaired as new for $350. Also try salvage yards for parts. Panels for a new C class will be hard to find new.