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Comments
But, the mechanic needs to drive the car with a Tech II attached so that when it is coming to a stop the Tech II records what changed at the time of the stalling. The computer used by the dealer is portable.
You could be chasing a poor connection in fuel pump wires going under through the car to the pump. It loses contact under certain deceleration forces.
You could be chasing a vacuum leak caused by poor tubing around the upper intake on the car or the upper intake itself leaking around the seal or a crack but only under certain conditions (but you've never mentioned erratic idle speed or high idle speed--I'm using this as an elusive, hard-to-find problem that others have ended up finding).
You could have an EGR sticking open as the engine slows down causing a stall. Have you disconnected the EGr and driven the car for a while?
Has the MAF been cleaned with solvent? Has another one been put in temporarily to see if that cures the problem.
Driving with a Tech II attached will catch either the direct cause (power to fuel pump failed briefly, e.g.) or a symptom of what is causing the stall.
Does the car have double positive battery cables? Has the plastic between them been opened and the connection inside checked as well as down into the cable? Does anything else electrical happen when the motor dies?
That's why I'm critiquing your guy and his trouble shooting.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Regarding the battery cables, etc. I noted this problem happening a while back when I turned the radio on. But, the car has run very well with the radio on and off since then. I have switched everything electrical on and off while driving, and none had any bad effect. When the car stalls, the radio continues to play.
My son called on his way home this evening and said the Buick was acting up again, stalling when coming to a stop. He used the technique of shifting into neutral, restarting and feeding the gas to keep the revs up while still rolling. Since this happened at night, the normal dashboard panel lights are lighted, but no warning lights are showing, a condition some have noted in other forums. I think that rules out an ignition problem?
The odometer has been dark for several months, and the gas gauge is unreliable, but he did refuel earlier this evening, so it was not an out-of-fuel condition.
Thanks again! I'll try what is within my expertise, and check back with you.
On H-bodies (leSabre Bonneville Park Ave) there are ground busses in cable bundles that are under the carpet at the front of the door sill, on both sides. Those have corroded due to moisture and salts for some people. I don't know if your car has those.
Have you tried disconnecting EGR yourself and driving? The MAF sensor also can cause stalls but usually people have other running strangeness happen with MAF.
I still recommend taping a fuel pressure gauge to the windshield to see if your fuel is dropping pressure. Some cars are sensitive to a tired fuel pump not quite making exactly the pressure range required by the injectors to give a proper spray pattern.
A professional mechanic, trained at Cincinnati area vocational school and owning a body shop auto mechanical repair garage in upscale Cincy, talked on his radio program about taping gauges on and driving customer cars to try to catch a pump problem.
You need to eliminate things one-by-one.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
For SIX blocks!!! He limped back home, and I found a whole new set of problems. The engine did not want to keep running, so pumping the accelerator was the only way to keep from stalling. Foot off the accelerator = Engine Stalls.
Aha! My mechanic would only take back the Regal if he could create the problem in his shop with his diagnostic tools connected. Based on my experience, I felt it was now time to tow the car to his shop. But, in an attempt to verify the problem today in my driveway, I turned the key, and . . . the engine fired right away, and I could not make it stall.
So, my prize Crown Victoria is now "vacationing" with the kids at the Lake, and I'm stuck with a piece of unreliable General Motors Junk!
I HATE that car!!!
My thinking:
EGR valve sticking open causing too much burned gas to recirculate into the incoming air.
Fuel pressure dropped after pump warmed up and low pressure means poor vaporization of the injector spray at low rpm and speeding up the air flow helps varporize what fuel is being squirted.
MAF sensor causes funky problems. Best diagnosis is to have one from a working vehicle and switch the two. Lots of 3800s use the same MAF.
I understand your frustration and I understand the mechanic wanting the problem to walk in. But I think your problem is a mechanic who doesn't want to recreate the problem by driving the vehicle with proper diagnostic equipment connected.
Behind this all is the occasional PCM that people will end up replacing as the solution.
I don't know if you are at all comfortable diagnosing but you can removed a spark plug wire in advance and reconnect it. Then when car doesn't run right, remove the wire and restart the motor and see if you're getting a great spark jumping from a screwdriver left inserted in it and placed near a metal part of motor as a ground. Don't hold the screwdriver while motor is running unless you're familiar with how to do it without getting shocked.
Fuel pressure needs a gauge. Ask your mechanic for a gauge to duct tape to the windshield and drive until it does it. See what the gas line pressure is when the symptoms start.
Disconnect the EGR yourself. Follow the wires to the connector. Drive around and see if it acts up. Or tap on it with a large screwdriver handle to vibrate it and make it snap shut through the crud blocking it from moving shut.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
What's so ironic is that, of all the cars I've owned in the past 29 years, the Regal is the only one I bought through a dealer. All 3 Crown Vics, as well as the Chevy Malibu and Honda Accord, were purchased from private parties, and were trouble free. Thus, my reluctance to return to a GM dealer for service.
What a way to spend my retirement!!!
I would have an opinion if I were feeling the motor die to think if it's completely off or not. But one other thing a few people found is the ignition switch. After many years of wear on the contacts, it might be losing contact for the portion that runs the ignition power to the ISC, e.g. Then you turn it off and recycle to make contact again and it's good to go. Not the key cylinder--the ignition switch, which is down near the base of the steering column operated by a link from the lock cylinder at the top.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My son dropped off the sick Regal half a block from my mechanic, and picked up the Malibu which was in for service. The following day the mechanic experienced all the problems we have, and had to restart many times before he made it to his shop. Hooking up the diagnostics showed many, manyerror codes being thrown like crazy, pointing to the MAF!!! He claims that the error codes continued to show even with the ignition off.
Short story ending: After spending almost $900, replacing a few things that didn't need replacing, the Regal runs fine with the MAF replacement ($360.45 total). I tested it on the 405 Freeway and on Sepulveda Blvd returning (in traffic).
So, I don't need to spend $4,300 on the used SAAB that my son wanted, and I got my prize Ford Crown Victoria back. Many thanks to all those good folks who shared their stories with me. I'm adding mine as another successful conclusion to a harrowing GM problem.
Regards,
Bernard Samstag (aka: Sam)
Culver City, CA
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Wish I had seen your post earlier. Same thing happened with my 99 Regal LS. It was the mass airflow sensor.
I was driving down the road today on the freeway doing about 80 then all of a sudden my SES light starts flashing and then goes solid.. I guess the flash is to get your attention. So I take it to autozone. She said I had a misfire. First question I changed my plugs about 2 years ago and my wire about a couple of months ago. What would be the most COMMON thing that I should change yet. The light was not the reason I changed my plugs. I was told to switch the little do dad that take hot exhaust from the engine... It build up with carbon... Don't know. Second question. Should Autozone been able to tell me which cylinder misfired? Thank all in advance.
http://www.autoblog.com/tag/Regal/ Here are some pics. It is a shame we won't see it in US.
jw
As my mechanic Bob (and I) says: I'd rather be lucky than good any day!
ebay link
Notice this says book 1 of 2 and book 2 of 2 in the pictures.
Here's another I found by searching for Lumina rather than Regal. Much cheaper.
Both books.
Lumina, regal, cutlass, grand prix
Do the fans turn on when the AC runs?
The temperature won't turn them on until 230 degrees or so. I do not know how the sensor is done. I could look in my 98 leSabre book.
On the leSabre one fan runs at one speed and the other has two speeds. If the car heats further or the pressure in the AC goes high then the high speed fan turns on faster. So your really need the wiring diagram for how yours is set up.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Thank you in advance for any help
Take out the 6 spark plugs and label them as to which cylinder. If they have a white coating that may be from coolant burning. Then crank motor and watch to see which cylinders have coolant coming out with the upstroke of the piston.
Also under the lower intake manifold there are gaskets that seal around the coolant openings that go into the heads. These may have deteriorated if the original coolant was DexCool (I don't think it was). These can leak and more commonly hydrolock than the leak in the upper at the EGR tube does.
Upper intake manifold by Dorman about $150. Lower intake gaskets between lower and cylinder heads about $50 from GM--use the ones that are metal framed in aluminum, not the originals.
Head gasket failures are really infrequent on 3800s (by GM). If it's the Series II style 3800, most likely you have a leak as described. If coolant ran low and car overheated, then you may have a head that's been damaged from the abuse.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My car had issue where one of plastic elbow for coolent circuation cracked and lost lots of coolent, cost me 500.00 to fix the issue.
Then like your problem, coolent sensor was showing low coolent and GM deler was not able to disnose the issue. Got tired of, I changed the sensor my self and also changed the radiator cap also. Buy GM part, do not buy after market part. That revolved the issue for two years and now the low coolent sensor light is back on.
Engine light On, yes I have the same issue. I changed the Vaccume switch and the solonoid 5 years ago and now I have the same issue.
I took it ot the dealer the tech say that it is vaccume switch, then I called the service manager to ask why the switch failed again. He said it could be solonoid too.
So bottom line is, the dealer technician does not know 100% if the issue is Vaccume swicth or teh solonoid. I have scanner at home, the code I get for the faul is P0441.
So I have given up for the incompinent GM dealer tech. I will change then both and see if that fixes the problem.
That is all I have to say. Good luck.
Sounds like you got taken if this actually happened. The coolant elbows are available from Dorman, often on the HELP rack at auto stores, for $5 or less for both along with the o-rings. About 1 hour labor to remove the tensioner and its bracket: $80. So $85 should have fixed it!!! Take a look at your bill to see what else they hosed you for!!!
>By brother had hydrolock, when coolent went leaking into the engine head gasket and engine locked up.
If the motor had hydrolock due to coolant leaking into cylinder (happens on lots of cars especially with head gasket leaks), that meant he wasn't checking his coolant level regularly, say weekly. The gaskets don't start leaking overnight!!! So this was preventable by checking your car for proper fluid levels, both in the coolant reservoir and inside the radiator.
This sounds to me like blaming the car for owner neglect and the problems it can cause.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
How do you change the sensor? If it is cheap and easy I'll do it myself, otherwise I'll just live with it.
If not, the problem may be that actual control box has failed. On leSabres and other H-body cars, it's inside the driver's door. Requires removing the door panel covering the interior.
The other possibility is a stuck window switch. Does the window go up and down in response to the window switch, once it has done that down cycle when key is turned on? Does it do the same thing in ACC as it does in the ON position?
The contacts inside the window switch may have corroded or the wires below that tell the control box what you are requesting may be shorted under the switch. Try moving the switch a lot both directions to make the contacts rub and clean.
A cure would be to remove the breaker or the fuse for the power windows to keep it from cycling down until you can repair it.
Good luck.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Two Centurys- an '89 and a '93. Both had the 3300 motors.
New alternators at about 100k, water pump at 120k.
Brakes from time to time- rear drums didn't hold up all that well, front disks did pretty well.
Never had problems with calipers (slides or bolts)
Never had probs with power windows, seats, or trans. (except vacuum modulator on '94). A/C compressor died on the 89 at 150k or so. Paint peeling, CV joints were getting rough, I sold it. It ran for years after that, to my knowledge. I sold the 93 cheap with 150-160k when I got my 03 Regal. It was a retired rentacar with 22k miles.
The 03 now has 190k miles with original almost everything. (changed cat converter and O2 sensor, and headlight high beam switch)
Am on second set of rear brake pads, about fourth set of front pads. Nest brake job I'll replace the factory rotors, they're getting pretty worn.
Planned obsolescence? I don't think so.
Jay
I swapped the switch with the right rear switch and the switch works on the right door, and the right door switch still does not operate the left rear window, so the switch is not the problem either.
Any suggestions?
The car has 81k on it and the engine has been replaced with a 91 LeSaber 3.8 with the same approximant mileage. The car ran fine until the little magnet on the camshaft gear fell off. As I did not need the car just then, I left it sit for about 6 – 8 months before repairing it. When I replaced the magnet, I also lifted the engine up enough to remove the oil pan so I could repair a dent and replace the leaking pan gasket. Once it was back together, it ran fine . for a while. After about 3 weeks, it started to shut off occasionally while driving. It would restart easily. The problem progressed gradually until about 3 months later when I did not trust it to even leave the yard. I tried to correct the problem as it continued to get worse and worse, now, I’m out of ideas.
I know that the problem seems to be that the injectors are shutting down. When it shuts off and I try to restart it, the plugs are dry even after several minutes of spinning the starter. Sometimes, but not always, when it shuts off the charcoal canister purge valve is clicking like crazy. I also noticed that rarely the vacuum hose from the pressure regulator to the intake manifold block is collapsed. It used to run for a bit if I sprayed it with starting fluid but sputtered and staled out in a short time. I should mention that there are never any error codes when this happens and the check engine light does work. On occasion when it is running and I’m in the car, it seems that if I’m giving it gas, it runs a little longer than if I let it sit and idle but I’m not real sure that this is the case.
So far I have replaced the fuel filter, fuel pump, fuel pressure relay, fuel pressure regulator, computer, charcoal canister purge valve and the mass air flow sensor. Nothing has seemed to make any difference. I’ve checked the gas cap and the vacuum hoses from the purge valve to the tank and there is no blockage. There are no vacuum leaks either.
I’ve been working on cars for nearly 30 years and this has me totally stumped. I may have tried a few other minor things or replaced other minor parts but what I have listed is all I can think of currently. I’m thinking I have an electrical or vacuum problem. I’m also thinking of having a Buick bonfire in the near future. Any help or thoughts on this problem would be greatly appreciated. I’m nearly ready to just get rid of the car and would have by now but it is in excellent shape and I never thought I would have put so much money into it and have the problem just get worse. Thank you.
Crankshaft position sensor would be my thinking. Lots of people have had trouble.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
*Added info... Just got the code. P0171 on bank 1 so... My understanding of that is that is on cyl 1 or plug 1? No other codes.. Code just be a plugged injector but that would cause a misfire right? In case you are wondering this is a 96 buick regal 3800 series engine.
I'd replace the collapsing vacuum line from the fuel pressure regulator.
I'd connect a little light bulb, the little marker bulbs with two wires for contacts, into the injector on one of the cylinders while cranking when it won't start. See if you're getting a good flash with each pulse of the injector.
Related to that is the main computer. I would think about replacing it or switching if you know someone with a running version of your car.
But the clicking after the car shuts off sometimes might be a sign of low battery voltage or a poor connection. Is the battery fully charged? Are connections clean?
Have you taken off a plug wire and put a spark plug on grounded to the engine and looked at the spark while it's cranking?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
All vacuum lines and the fuel pressure regulator have been replaced
"I'd connect a little light bulb, the little marker bulbs with two wires for contacts, into the injector on one of the cylinders while cranking when it won't start. See if you're getting a good flash with each pulse of the injector. "
This I have not tried and will give it a go.
" Related to that is the main computer. I would think about replacing it or switching if you know someone with a running version of your car. "
Computer has been replaced twice. Once with a rebuild one and with one from a known running car, no difference.
The car does have spark while it is cranking, just no fuel. I'll try to other items you mentioned and report back, thankyou
I've replaced the Engine Control Computer twice now with no difference in the problem and still no error codes displayed.
"But the clicking after the car shuts off sometimes might be a sign of low battery voltage or a poor connection. Is the battery fully charged? Are connections clean?"
Battery is fully charged and about 1 year old. It will continue to crank the car for at least 20 min or more after the car shuts down.
Thanks
I apologize that you are experiencing concerns with your vehicle. Unfortunately, I cannot diagnose your vehicle. However we are here if you have any questions, or if you need a dealer referral. Thank you,
Mariah GM Customer Service