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Comments
Turns out that it is a bad ignition control module and bad ignition coil. I bet that 9/10 of these surging problems are bad ignition coils that just haven't failed bad enough to set a flag in the computer.
I don't know a great way to test this without a diagnostics computer short of getting an extra coil and swapping it with each one down the way and observe changes in misfiring and surging.
What led me to the ignition coil was that if the voltage in the car was at 15.1 or above, no misses at all. If it was between 14.5 and 15.0, mild surging was evident, but at it's worse, when you stopped at a light and the brake lights were on and the engine was running slow, the voltage drops to 14.0 (normal) and then it really starts to miss.
This felt just like a fuel flow problem anytime the car was accelerating, though so it was really confusing. Hopefully this will shed some light on this situation for the people who are dealing with it.
Disclaimer: I'm no mechanic, just an engineer.
Shucknet - thanks for the info. All you guys sharing information together have more on the ball than any dealer I think. I hope I never have any of these experiences, but if I do, I hope I remember all this.
Yes,I have the same thing happen to me on my 95'.Like you said it happens now and then.Turn key,for like half a second doesn't crank,then it starts right up.This has been going on intermitently for like a year.Not a big enough deal for me to bring it into the shop yet.Maybe we can have a race to see whose car does not start first.
TO
PLAY
A
GAME
What did you have in mind? Whoever has the worst horror story to tell wins? Because let's face it,this "slight" delay in cranking is going to get us eventually.I must warn you I am known for my BAD luck.I bet when it finaly does'nt crank AT ALL I will be 300 miles away from home in a VERY BAD part of town, in need of a QUICK GET AWAY when I turn the key and hear.......NOTHING.......
I just had a new ignition control module and 6-7 ignition coil put on mine to fix the surging problem. Runs like a champ now.
Also just added a delco 12 disc CD changer. How did I ever live without that before?!?!
A dash light (don't remember the color) came on my '95 at about 98,000 miles in the past few days. It warned about re charging problem, every time I started the car the message would appear where the date is. I drove another 80 miles over the weekend.
Yesterday evening I worked until 10pm, drove my car towards the highway and weird things started happening. My radio shut off. My dashboard lights shut off. I thought my headlights shut off, but they were still on, perhaps in parking mode. The funniest thing is my transmission seemed like it was still in second gear even at 50 mph. I tried shifting to jolt it loose to no avail.
Fortunately, I did not take the highway (GSP) but I took a secondary road (Rt 46) because within a half a mile the car completely shut off.
I won't bore you with the whole episode of getting it towed, but... my mechanic replaced the alternator and got my a new battery since it was under warranty.
Some his advice was to remember that a red warning light means check it right away, a yellow light means at my leisure. (My light was white and not directly above the steering wheel.)
He said that the battery was probably not getting charged in recent days, that the alternator was not working or working only slightly. He said that if it had rained, it might have died earlier due to the windshield wipers using up DC power.
The labor was 4 hours as the alternator is hung under the engine. I am hoping that an increasing thumping of trans downshift at 2-12 mph is eliminated by this as the computer and its power hungry needs evidentally controls more of this car than I ever realized.
It is unlikely I will need a new transmission (until 150,000 miles), but if I do does anybody know what they cost with labor?
The ending: I am thankful that I broke down in NJ relatively close to home as I travelled to NY and western NJ over the weekend!
Bill
Aurorabill
The Cadillac dealership charged my very accommodating warranty company (American Guardian/WarrantybyNet) $3,000 for a refurbished transmission, including labor. That was at 100k miles. A new one is probably much more.
The DIC should remind you to shift out of power mode after some length of time too. It doesn't.
I know two people who've owned Auroras. One needed the engine replaced at 60k miles and the other had numerous electrical problems and the A/C compressor go out before she hit 36k miles.
This is why I won't buy GM.
If you go to the bimmer.org pages, you will wonder why anyone buys a BMW.
People are going to share repair issues and don't really have anything to say about trouble free driving. So you see all the dirt. My car has been basically good.
Heck, I saw a guy on the Lexus LS board discussing that the HVAC system in the LS 430 has a problem with incubating germs and he was getting sick from his car. Others addressed this as well. Nothing like some bio-terror from your 50+k car. Other Lexus sites have their share of problems. I think every board I've seen has many posts addressing problems. That's a great function of the boards.
But if it makes you feel good to haunt the Aurora site for no apparent reason - well go for it, it's almost Halloween. It should be amusing. This board has been a little slow anyway.
Garnes - But I ask you, What Do You Really Think of fljules???
:^)
How did you add a 12 disc without changing the radio?
I did not think the standeard Aurora radio would control the 12 disc CD changer.
How much was the changer??
Care to take the drive with me Captain Kirk??
As soon as I make that statement, something will blow up. Also, we don't want to upset any of the others.
I love my Aurora and have not been a day without it since I bought it. I have no problem with most GM products.
Don't listen too much to Henry's story. That was mostly just dealing with his exceptional warranty service.
Zinc - I have heard that operating the car at high rpm's adds to deposits and build up. It has to do something with the engine not being able to rid itself of combustion by products as well at high rpm's
Hey, I'm going to do a lot of surgical cutting, sanding and filing the inside of the air box to try to reduce turbulence. The box is full of those square waffle patterns. I'll dyno it too. It is a rush to do it. If any of you looked at the curves I posted on www.caddyinfo.com you will see a big power drop at 4600 on the stock box and it is delayed to as much as 4900 with my initial modifications. I really think this is due to turbulence. I even plan to do a run where I am drawing air from the bottom hole that I now have, and block the side air. Maybe the air entering from the side interferes with the flow from the bottom headed straight for the filter. I'll let you guys know.
I did some calcs on air flow. 244 cubic inches would pull 122 c.i. per rpm (four stroke). At 5000 rpm's, I come up with 353 CFM of air flow. Assuming the hole I created in the air box bottom it 4 inches x
5 inches, it comes out to the air passing through this inlet at about 30 mph. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm also sparing you all the intermediate calculations. I was curious because of the turbulence issue. I just want that 4.0 to pull the best dense air it can rather than the cylinders "filled" with a thinner air due to pulling against lower pressure caused by turbulence. But I realize there is only so much you can do with that stock box.
I did get the wrong Mass air flow meter. I am getting one directly from Granatelli now. It will be a modified meter from the dealer. I'm still hoping ultimately for a 280 to 290 HP Aurora with the air box, filter, meter, and cat-back. So far so good.
I bought the CD changer from a guy who had totalled his Aurora. I can't even remember where I found him - might have been on this board even. Got a great deal ($150 shipped) and he was a good guy. There are some on eBay - usually around $250-300. New from dealer - $600ish
Most Auroras are prewired for the CD changer. Look around the power antenna behind the carpet. There should be a connector somewhere back there with a 6/4 pin harness on it. Will have a dark green and brown wire, for sure in addition to a few others.
If you don't have this connector back there, you can always buy an add-on cable on eBay or something. I bought one of those because I was doing a bunch of cutsom stuff with my stereo. It game me something to mess with wiring on without screwing with the harness in the car. (search for CD changer cable or similar)
If anyone has any more Aurora stereo questions, I can probably answer them - I replaced everything with aftermarket stuff except the headunit and I've been through the entire stereo system of this car more than once. Get the best of both worlds - aftermarket sound quality with DIC time in tact and steering wheel controls. That and it all looks perfectly stock.
Also, that guy who is dogging Auroras - he can go live in Afghanistan where I'm sure they make cars that he will enjoy. Oh yeah - and make sure to get the red and white circle paint option.
Ok, I really don't wish death on the guy, but seriously - he's a puke.
My 6-7 ignition coil was bad (so I was driving a mistuned V6) and so was the ignition control module (part that sits underneath the coils). I think the ICM had been bad for a while and then the 6-7 coil went and that was enough to make it easy to find.
The ICM was something like $450. The coil was much less. Saw a whole set (ICM and 4 coils) go on eBay for something like $150 - that would have been nice if you were doing the repair yourself.
Anyways, car runs like a champ now and my fuel mileage is considerably better.
lobsterman: what were your other claims?
I checked out a discussion here on Edmunds about this car and most of the comments were about how downscale the interior is. I looked at 3 interior offerings and the lower cost cloth is nice. The leather or leather-top is a disappointment. The dealer actually offers a real leather aftermarket seat - it looks okay, but somehow Nissan may have missed the boat on this feature.
The car was supposed to be priced (according to magazine speculation)at a high of $23,000. Most of the 6 cylinder models (240 HP) were over that and one was over $29K>
The handling was okay although I didn't get a chance to really test it. The acceleration was good, but not what I would expect from a car that supposedly does under 6.5 for 0-60 (with a stick). I drove the automatic; living in rush hour traffic around here (NJ) does not make a stick very practical, sorry to say.
Steering was very tight, maybe cause its a new car. The interior is like a "high-teens" Japanese car. The ride is okay, but baby, its hard to go from a luxury-sport-galaxy cruiser like the Aurora into one of these. The trunk is ample, good enough for my needs.
I'd like to throw in my .02 and douse a little water on the press coverage of this car. It looks great, although soon there will be many on the road and the inevitable copycats so it will be just another Accord-Camry-Nissan. Anyway the press seemed to be raving about the performance for the price. Nobody seems to be saying what I have now concluded: this is just a card trick. A few years ago you could get a Maxima for a little over $20K. This Altima is basically less car for more money. The Altima is actually a little bigger in some of the dimensions, but with a much cheaper interior.
I am glad this car is on the market and it is probably the right car for someone moving up to an Altima/Maxima, but it is hard to consider after riding around in an Aurora for almost 2 years.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled program... the Aurora.
Aurorabill
Yeah, I've had it with all the HP and 0 to 60 hype and nonsense in the auto industry. Various publications post widely different numbers for the same car, and the MFG always seems to claim something that at the very least pushes the envelope of honesty. Isn't this the same company that had to revise HP claims? Because they LIED. The credibility is gone. I've seen our Impala 3.8 listed at 7.7 for 0 to 60. I love that car too but NO WAY it is that fast. If so, My Autobahn has got to be in the 6's. Blk97aurora listed a wide range of 0 to 60 times for the autobahn in 1995.
After going to the dyno, and getting into this a little, I realize how unimportant "peak HP" is. First of all, the torque is what launches the car. And some of these cars with high HP have much less torque, and make you climb past 6000 rpms to get all the HP. A really steep climbing HP curve that perhaps levels off early is going to give you more performance than one that climbs more slowly - even if finishing at a higher HP at some screaming rpm. I still think a Caddy SLS if given the 3.71 transaxle might be quicker than an STS. The SLS just has more HP and torque throughout most of the power curves.
Well I got an e-mail from Granatelli Motor Sports. I guess they are done with the mass air flow meter and custom built it. They said they bench tested it and it allowed 38% more air flow. I'm not sure under what pressure differential, and maybe they will clarify this with my follow up e-mail. Ultimately, I'll dyno it and let you guys know what happens. I hope some of you others may be interested in letting the Aurora breath better and really pump out the HP and torque.
FJK - I was referring to really high rpms like 5000 being possible conditions for producing deposits, but yeah, I was always under the impression that a long highway drive was good for cleaning things out.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=597219175&r=0&t=0
OnStar, a sunroof and the White Diamond paint. I was approaching 17k miles on my
Cappuchino model. I had considered buying an extended warranty, but decided to go
with a fresh start. There really isn't another brand of car that I'd prefer right now. I'm
hoping over the next five years that there will be something new that I like.
The only thing lacking on my new Aurora is a cd changer in the trunk. It's not possible
to add the Delco factory model. I checked with a local Pioneer dealer about installing an
RF model that hooks up to the fm antenna, but when the installer looked at the car, he
couldn't see any place to attach it to the antenna.
Keith Smith
see how to attach it.
Make sure you read over the old posts here for lots of good service information in case anything happens. The guys on this board really know the car. I highly recommend it. Go as far back as you can.
After reading some of the reviews, comparing the price of the 3.5 vs 4.0, and driving a sweet 3.5 powered Intrugue for over 2 years, I am leaning heavily toward ordering a 3.5 Aurora.
Anybody here drive one of these cars?
I know the Aurora is heavier than the Intrigue, couple hundred pounds I think, but I have been very satisfied with the performance of this engine in the Intrigue. And that means foot in the valves, tweaking front tires stuff.
Anybody have any hands on comparisons? Is the 4.0 worth the $4 to $5 grand difference, if money is an object?
Their pricing was fair, and their (pre-sales) customer service good. I did not hear the horror stories about them that I did from WG (Henri and others). One thing I like about them (in theory) is that they are their own warranty administrator. Their financial backing (reinsurer PrimeGuard) seems decent as well.
They supposedly pay shop rates and one deductible per visit (not per repair). I have the $0 deductible so it doesn't matter for me.
Bear in mind that my factory warranty expires 11/29, and I've not yet had an opportunity to use 1Source's services.
I don't speak for them/have no interest (financial or otherwise) in their success, other than as a customer who hopes his experiences with the company are good. Of course, I hope my Aurora doesn't suffer the maladies of many on this board, so that I don't have to find out :-)
--Robert
Was travelling on a business trip and oen of the guys in my group got an Aurora 3.5 as his rental car. The 3.5 was ok, but really was not enough engine to pull the car around that well, especially with 4 guys in it.
My 98 (with the 4.0, of course) has no problems with a full load of people. To me, that was the biggest differences.
The sound of the V8 is cooler. The v8 just has that flatter HP and torque curve that make the car easier to drive. Sure, if you stomp on the V6 it'll move the car, but it takes a lot less effort from the V8.
If you're a serious Aurora person, you will demand the V8 as the Aurora is supposed to be a sport / luxury sedan. The v6 version was simply made to replace the 88 and with GM trying to fit that car into a segment like that, ruined the future of the Aurora.
So, V8, V8, V8, V8.