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Comments
With slightly over 34K miles, this car still drives like a dream.
I've talked to two kinds of dealers, those who don't try to collect it and those who treat it as sacrosanct and act astonished that you should even suggest that it's bogus. When you talk to one of these be sure he understands that what matters to you is the final cost and his fee can take him out of the running against dealers who don't charge it.
The invoice is the sum of the wholesale prices for each item on the factory window sticker. To that, add the full destination charge. When somebody buys a car for $300 over invoice it means just that. No paperwork handling fee, floorplan fee, advertising fee, window etching fee, preparation charge, market adjustment, or whatever else he tells you is part of his cost. If you pay invoice + $300 + a bunch of fees he makes a windfall.
I think somebody can do okay by getting a couple of Internet quotes, then walk into a few showrooms and compare the "driveaway" price of each one. That's the true bottom line of the contract. One may be honest enough to list the invoice and his $300 margin. Another may tell you he's selling it for $100 under invoice then add $400 in fees. Either way the price is the same. I like the first kind of contract (and dealer).
There' one more element of pricing worth mentioning. The dealer gets a refund of 3% of the MSRP (not including destination charge) of each car he sells at the end of the quarter. It's called holdback. This means that he can sell the car at invoice and make a profit. But it's really a discount on the interest he's paying GM to finance his total new car inventory. I don't know if it shows up as revenue on his books.
For instance my 2001 Impala is significantly quieter than my '99 Intrigue.
Which tires do you have? Are they cupped? Or worn abnormally.
Got to tirerack.com and get the reviews from fellow drivers.
I've been looking to replace the Sihouette I have as a company car, and have been researching the Impala.
Starting off the model year, the base standard vehicle price (before destination charge) has gone from:
20465
20655
20760
20835
21035
21110
and the last I've seen is 21160 just today.
That's a $695 price increase since October. I don't think the General is giving us back the coinholder and floor mats in the increase either.
Also, there has been at least one bump up on the destination charge from $630 to $660 this year.
When you run an invoice on Edmunds or anywhere else, you need to be sure the base prices match. I believe Edmunds only posts the latest one.
This can bite you if you are looking at an early model year car using today's invoice prices. What you think is 100 over invoice may actually be closer to 1000 over!
I'm afraid by the time I'm ready to buy later this year, the base price may be over 22k.
Mikey
The price increases continue unabate adn the rebates continue unabated.
The cars are clearly not worth what they are asking for them.
Why not decrease the MSRP by 2 grand and run the occasional $500 rebate or low interest loan.
Also $3000 off sounds ever so much better than a price that is $3000 less. Human nature.
Chrysler started this back when it was near bankruptcy. Iacocca: BUY A CAR, GET A CHECK.
It was years before it stopped.
This time, note that the alleged foreign manufacturers are NOT having to do it. Only the Big Three are racing to the bottom. It may well take one or more of them to the brink of bankruptcy before it is over.
Message to GM: Stop being the "Walmart" of the auto industry. Stop killing the resale value of your products with rebates, free financing and never ending fleet sales. Let your products stand on their own merits and quality not on fire sales!!
They're looking like a better alternative than new. Especially since I drive 40k miles a year.
Mikey
Same is true for the new Grand Prix among others. Cadillac is the likely exception as their product line is about to become phenomenal.
The first issue feeds the second, they need rebates to move the products. Over priced and crappy quality. The market corrects itself as soon as they become available used.
Simple case study, read this months issue of Car and Driver on the new Acura TSX. The attention to quality and workmanship are amazing for $26,900 (w/an automatic).
Ok, the TSX (or an Accord) is not my cup of tea, but if ever C&D or others were to write such glowing words about a GM product please sign me up. No matter what GM vehicle is reviewed there is always caveats about its interior or and workmanship.
The solution is so simple for GM but for some reason they just can not execute. We wait and wait yet are contantly disappointed (or amazed).
Bottom line is $28-$30K for a mid-size GM just ain't right. If they price the Malibu wrong you can bet your bottom dollar it will have rebate city on it very quick.
My prediction is that the new Grand Prix has rebates by September...they are not moving. You heard it here first.
Base model
Every Conceivable option including XM radio, and something called "Description not available" for $695
list price $26231
For a base Impala. I wonder if it was ordered and the customer backed out. LS models start out around $24.5K
It has the oldest base price of 20465 so it must have been manufactured in say August or September.
Like to see the floorplan cost on that one.
Mikey
The Impala was a terrific value back in '99, '00 and '01 which was their introductory market period. these cars have become more and more expensive since the 2002 model year. Last year more fierce competitors have been introduced to the market with more power, world class safety and interiors for the same money or less.
I think your analogy of the Acura TSX (Not my cup of tea either) brilliantly summarizes the ever present predicament of GM's bread and butter product...good quality, realible but nothing special at the end of the day...see my drift?
The 02's were 1K more than the '01's and the '03's were 1K more than the '02's and it looks like the '04s will start at 1K more than the '03's.
Totally ridiciulous, especially in light of the 3K rebate.
I love the rumble of an American car...all of them. I need to feel attached to the car and the Accord/Camry/Mazda-6 etc. just don't do it for me.
But we deserve better than what GM is putting in their cars. Hence, they don't sell. The Grand Prix is disappointing on so many fronts.
The CTS is getting close but again it is overpriced...it will be $40K with the new engine this summer and the V-version will be $50K.
http://www.55-57chevys.com/coccc/articles/613/63asty2.html
As you can see (on page 2), it had a 0-60 time of 6.6 seconds, which is equivalent to the '03 Buick Regal GS and Pontiac Grand Prix GTP cars, which come equipped with the supercharged 3800 Series II engine. The '04 Impala SS will have this same engine, and should have an equivalent 0-60 time (6.6 seconds) to the '63 Impala SS. I agree, it should have a 15 second (or less) quarter mile time.
There is the 9C1 and there is also the 9C3 that has the 3.29 gear in it.
The cars that are used for highway patrol work have the 3.05 gear. The around town cop cars(non pursuit) will usually have the 3.05.
There is a company that makes a 3.69 gear and also a limited slip differnetial(Quaife among others).
1999 Intrigues and 2000 and later cars with PCS have the 3.29 gear as well as the new Grand Prix GTP.
It does make a noticeble difference. .2-.3 seconds in the 0-60 according to Oldsmobile.
I am a 2000 Chevrolet Impala LS owner with 84000 km. I live in Canada. My whole transmission is broken (inside), and the torque converter is discolored (perhaps because of metal contamination) and swollen. Everything is either damaged or burnt inside. I have to pay thousands of dollars to replace a new one.
During the process, I have found a valuable document published by GM Fleet that they have already acknowledged that there may be a design defect in all Impala's 4T65-E transmissions production prior August 2001. Most importantly, they are fixing it under warranty repair for their fleet customers. Perhaps I am not a fleet customer or whatsoever, I have to pay my own repair costs and have had the worst dealer experience you could have imagined.
So what I am trying to do here is to recommend all Impala owners to do the following: Check if there's metal contamination in the automatic transmission fluid. If the automatic transmission fluid is black, there's sign of metal contamination inside your transmission. You could check that by using the dipstick, or even ask a technician to open the fluid tank (or whatever that calls which hold the transmission fluid). If you find the color is black, you could contact me by e-mail. [email protected]
If you don't do it immediately, you could feel sorry for yourself and perhaps you family. It is because the transmission could break down completely without any hints when you are driving 60 mph (100 km/hr) and your family is abroad. The best case scenario is that you pay only thousands of dollars to replace a new one. I am very serious, and I urge you to act immediately because it is about your safety, your money and most importantly the safety of those who you love.
My name is Mr. Chan. My e-mail address is [email protected].
The link of the document is:
http://www.nafa.org/Content/NavigationMenu/Education_and_Events1/- Education_and_Events2/Law_Enforcement_Group_Conference/Manufactur- er_Presentations/GMLEG.ppt
I am not sure if this is a frequent problem as several GM full size front wheel drive sedans currently use the 4T65-E 4-speed slushbox. These include the Buicl Lesabre, Regal, Century, park Avenue, Pontiac Grand Prix, Bonneville, Oldsmobile Intrigue, Chevy Impala, Montecarlo.
Anyway, the heads up is appreciated.
No problems whatsoever in my end with the transmission in my '01 Impala LS with 21K miles.
It needs the Stage 1, 2, or 3 packages.
http://www.slpeng.com/vehicles/impala/index.shtml
There was a Monte Carlo LSX, also. It seems that SLP must be distributing these to dealers.
Teasing, I think...
260 hp vs. 305hp+.
4T80E trans would probably fit but weighs 75 lbs more.
LSD is not offered with either trans.
Cadillac would look unkindly towards a Chevy having more power than the deville and STS.
FWD is not the best place to put a small block Chevy. Too much torque steer, too little traction.
LS1 has higher revs than 3800. This is also hard on a transmission.
Here are pics of a great looking '63 Impala SS. It has the immortal 409-425 horsepower engine:
http://selectmotors.net/1963-impala-ss-409.htm
I took my car (purchased used earlier this year - 2000 Impala (69,100k) w/ used Optimum warranty) to the dealer the other day as I saw the coolant slowly disappearing out of the overflow bottle. The dealer called back and said they my overflow bottle is full and that they pressure tested it to if it was leaking, and they say it is not.
I told him that coolant just doesn’t walk away and come back when car is at the dealer. He promised to check it again tomorrow morning. I’m wondering if he’s trying to pass the buck until my warranty is up (900k to go) so that I have to paid to get it fixed.
So, after that “discussion” with the dealer and reading the power point link provided by Mr. Chan, I’m wondering if I should cut my losses and get rid of this car ASAP. I found this site about a week after I purchased the car, and I’ve been worried sick I’m made the wrong choice in cars ever since. I was hoping to keep this car for a very long time, but with problems with this car (cradle, ISS, seat, intake, ?Transmission?), and the dealership lying though its teeth, I don’t think that will be possible. Makes me wonder how GM is still in business.
PS – Yes, I’ve seen B gillie’s death cool site, and gm-v6lemons.com.
I have a 2001 Impala LS with 21K miles (Currently have it up for sale) and the car is an absolute cream puff inside and out. Aside from a replaced upper plastic manifold over 6 months ago, I haven't had any other issues with the car. Transmission oil is crystal clear, fresh engine oil and filter, new coolant (Flushed and replaced when they worked on the manifold)smooth and solid car all around.
I am not saying that problems with Impalas don't exist but at least the 2001 and on model year cars seem to be the best of the bunch.
If you really like the car, maybe you should consider trading to a newer model year or even a new one.
All cars have problems, no matter who makes them (I have owned a crop of American, Japanese and European cars). Unfortunately, the internet message boards tend to triple amplify the real scope of issues. Read in between the lines and judge by yourself.
Also, I have received excellent service from my selling Chevy dealer, so the positive experience has enhance the ownership of these cars over the last few years.
khpchan - thanks for the heads up on the transmission. I am going to check my fluid now. My 2001 just clicked over 25,000 miles, I really couldn't afford to have transmission problems now, especially after the $ 2900 transmission job we had done on our '95 Olds Aurora.
Frank