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2005 and Earlier Chevrolet Impala

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  • charts2charts2 Posts: 618
    Lets try this again. If you go to www.google.com type in toronto stealth impala. that will show you an unusal 2001 Impala the police are using on the highways in that area. Its unmarked except for.....

    Also on the same web sight try Impala 9c3 that designates plain door Police Impalas. 9c1 is the regular patrol Impalas that feature lights and markings. I think you will find pictures and other links to what you are looking for.
    John
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    I was the owner of the intrigue with the suspension problems. No matter what kind of incentive GM offers you don't buy it. GM is not supporting the car repair wise.

    Wonderful engine though. Resale is atrocious. Trade in values for '99 GX's are on the 7-8K range. That is pretty sobering.
    I had my intrigue for 26 months and enjoyed driving it, but it was in the shop alot.

    I have had my impala for 6 months and put 10,000 miles on it and it has never been in the shop once for unscheduled repairs. I have had 5 new Chevy's and it is the first new car that has not gone back for one thing or the other.

    Buy the Impala.

    Also, how many used ls impalas have you seen on the dealers lots? Very few I would imagine. How many used intrigues have you seen?
    It would seem like every car dealer in America has at least one.
  • duraflexduraflex Posts: 358
    24,000 miles and no problems - that's good news.

    BTW, I strongly recommend rotating the tires exactly in the pattern that the manual suggests. I actually mark them with a white crayon "to FL" "to RR" etc just so I can look afterward and confirm that it's been done properly. Mechanics I trust tell me it's particularly important with front wheel drive cars. Only twice have I not rotated by the book. As an immediate result, both rotations caused a subtle vibration in the steering wheel at high speed (about 60mph) that required rebalancing to correct. One time was years ago on my Oldsmobile. The other was with the Impala. I won't repeat the mistake.

    My Impala LS - built in January 2000 - seems to be riding quieter and a little smoother with time. Has anyone else noticed that? Still the original Eagle GA tires and 23,000 miles plus.
  • teoteo Posts: 2,508
    Cars are still man made devices prone to breakup or parts failure. I am keeping my Impala for 5 or 6 years and that's the reason I bought the GM Major guard extended warranty....cheap insurance that I might or might never use. The wisest thing any person keeping a car beyond the limited warranty period is to purchase an extended warranty contract no matter the make, model year of the car. New vehicles are very expensive to repair in terms of parts and labor...why assume that kind of risk? Even a an extended warranty contract that costs $1,500 or $2,000 is a bargain should a major component fails. Also an extended warranty helps you cover for tomorrow's unexpected problems at today's Dollars and then some. If a new Tranny costs $2K or $3K to replace, rest assure that your initial investment in the warranty will pay itself at least twice!

    Even if the extended warranty is not used before it expires, it can add to the resale value of the vehicle as it is transferable to a second owner upon selling the car.

    To me extended warranties have too many pluses and I quite frankly don't understand why so many people resist them thinking that their new "X" car will never need repairs.

    Today I drove 80 miles on my LS and had a blast!

    Charts, if you can't enjoy the car, sell it, have GM take it back, drive it down your nearest and tallest cliff...whatever makes you feel better...but remember your car seems to be running just fine and yet by means of your crystal ball you are predicting emminent failure of the ISS and the Cradle...gimme a big freakin' break dude!

    What is the point of having a new $20K auto and not been able to enjoy it because someone else already had a problem? I suggest that you go over the NHTSA.ORG website and spend sometime there reading the recall database and problems and complaints. Direct your attention to the new BMW X5 Suv, a $40K to $50K vehicle....they catch fire!! But guess what only 2 or 3 have catch fire when their owners turn their engines off and begin to detect a "burnt" smell coming out of the engine bay and then BOOM, Barbeque time! So that means all BMW X5 owners should ever experience and engine fire or ditch their vehicles in massive numbers? Don't think so. Remember that behind the emotion and the extremes often found in these boards there are technical explanations for everyhting that takes place and as far as this so claimed "Second wave" of engine cradle problems I have not seen once valid and down to earth technical explanation as to the why, when and when...just too much hot air filling the environment here.

    Go ahead and try make GM buyback your car that historically doesn't have any record of problems with the ISS or cradle...good luck to ya!
  • teoteo Posts: 2,508
    Thanks for your input. yet another proof of the excellent reliability of these cars.

    Welcome to the club.
  • Wow! go to dinner and 9 posts show up. Edl, tell us more about your base Impala--- color, options, build date etc. Welcome to the Impala forum. Hope you get as much out of it as I have. Enjoy the ride.
  • All of the 5 Impalas I drove were built between 05/00 and 11/00, and, incidentally, the 11/00 one was the perfect one. I went to 3 dealers around my area and asked to test drive ALL of their used Impalas. I told them why (to diagnose mine) and they all happily obliged. I put about 3 miles on each one, which ranged from 15,000 to 22,000 miles on the odometers. The perfect one had 21,000 miles on it.

    Mine was built in 11/00. I wish it was a perfect one. I think a new ISS will make it mighty close. I have the shim kit on my cradle but I don't think I needed it. I hope it isn't messing anything up. I'm sure it's not affecting the ISS though. I just need a new one of those...

    Thanks for asking and happy holidays!
  • garypengarypen Posts: 1,482
    An excellent choice with used cars. No reason at all to buy one with a new car, especially from a dealer.
    Who knows where they'll be at with a car 3 years down the road? If, when the car is at 35K miles or 35 months, it looks like it'll be a keeper, a warranty can be purchased at that time, usually cheaper than from the dealer during the original sale.
    Never wait until after the factory warranty expires, though. The price jumps drastically after that.
  • gweilogweilo Posts: 118
    Sometimes it's advantageous to roll it into the financing.
  • garypengarypen Posts: 1,482
    If the dealer offers a lower interest rate, or some other finacing incentive to take an extended warranty, he shouldn't be trusted. However, if you just want to spread out the cost of the warranty over the loan period, I guess it may make some sense.
    But for me, since they normally cost under $1000 when purchased before the end of the factory warranty, it pays to wait until the factory warranty has almost expired.
  • charts2charts2 Posts: 618
    Teo: The warranty that you bought is your personal choice. $1500 to $2000 too expensive for me thats my choice. If we disagree on this don't get upset trying to explain away why I should have one. I know all the pluses and minuses. Many people buy the GM undercoat warranty. Others buy after market theft alarm systems, on and on!! Not my choice again. Maybe you like that to. I don't know what the percentage of people who lay out that kind of money for these extended warranties, but I don't think you should say that you don't understand why so many people resist paying $1500 to $2000 for this extended warranty. I am sure there are lots of posters on this board that you are refering to, who also thought too expensive for them. Some will say they have it. ITS A PERSONAL CHOICE......Don't get upset when someone disagrees with you!!

    As I SAID at least twice now....I like my car too. No I am not going to run my Impala off a big cliff (as you seem to see me doing in YOUR crystal ball) that would wreck the cradle and ISS for sure!!

    Never suggested that GM buy back my car, as you said. Its running like a top....(why do you make all this stuff up?)



    Remember Teo, it was 00Impala who brought this latest issue to the forum, not me... I understand his concerns. I hope you have concerns for him like everyone did for you when you had YOUR problems. I still see your cradle pictures plastered all over the internet indicating the major problems that you had with the early one on your 2000 Impala. REMEMBER YOUR WORDS FROM YOUR LAST POST. "CARS ARE STILL MAN MADE DEVICES PRONE TO BREAK UP OR PARTS FAILURE" You didn't put that on the Internet with your cradle pictures or tell GM when they bought your car back. Those words are a total contradiction.
    I read all the sights like you do. I don't care about a BMW, Rolls Royce, Hugo, Geo Metro, or even the Space Shuttle. I care about my IMPALA and the concerns that others have about there IMPALAS. Hopefully this is the end of this cradle issue. If it is; HAPPY MOTORING FOR ME!! (WITH NO EXTENDED WARRANTY OH NO!!!!!)

    PS: Teo: GO TO www.google.com or yahoo and punch in 2004 Impala go to VINCES CARS and see the next generation IMPALA, MONTE CARLO AND CAVALIER. He calls it the 2004 Impala but I believe it will probably be 2005. Strong side resemblance to the newer Grand Prix coming out. Has the bow tie on the trunk not the Impala symbol (at this point)

    CHECK IT OUT!!!
  • charts2charts2 Posts: 618
    I believe thats a wise to choice to wait until tme has gone by and then determine near 36000 miles if you are going to keep the car (hopefully trouble free) then buy the warranty at that point.

    My daughter recently bought a 1999 Saturn from a Saturn dealer with 29000 miles. The 3 year warranty is up in a few months and she was able to buy an extended GM warranty that covers her another 3 years and 36000 miles for $500.00. Thats a lot cheaper then the $1200 (extended warranty) they wanted on a 2002 Saturn. If she had bought the 2002, She would have had to borrow that additional money for the extended warranty and in the end probably paid $1800 (interest principal) when the loan was paid off.

    ITS A PERSONAL CHOICE!! BUT GOOD TO HAVE THAT CHOICE.

    Wise decision to wait.
  • garnesgarnes Posts: 950
    Please reconsider the "todays dollars to pay for tomorrows problems" logic. This sounds great only if you assume that the "todays dollars" that you lay out for the warranty would not grow if saved and invested. It's the opportunity cost thing. This also comes into play with the Camry/Accord "better resale" crap arguments. Truth is, the thousands more you often pay could have been growing in some sort of investment. They have to have better resale just to keep even. Nobody ever seems to take that into account.

    Anyway, my opinion on the warranty is that it covers you (at least the one I looked at at the dealer for the Impala) for that window between when the factory warranty ends and when the big trouble has a bigger chance to begin at the higher miles. Furthermore, you'd have to run into approx. $1,500 of trouble just to break even. I know that can happen fast and then much more with a tranny or another large failure, but I'm willing to risk the few biggies. Assuming a tranny would be 3k and the warranty I did not buy is 1.5k I'd really be out about 1.5k compared to the guy that bought the warranty. Because this would not be a life changing expense, I'll take this risk and keep my 1.5k in my pocket for now. They don't sell these things to break even.

    Oh, I'm just throwing hypothetical $$ around. I hope I don't get taken to task on them. The warranty is just not for me, but I can see why other would like it. It really is a personal thing.
  • teoteo Posts: 2,508
    Great points made. To each his or her own. ;-)
  • hank64hank64 Posts: 37
    A little ways back, someone posted asking for Impala experience inputs to help gain some perspective on owning an Impala.

    I have a 2000 LS that has had most of the common problems recorded on this board. Build date is 11/18/99. Purchase date is 1/1/00
    Here is a rundown.

    ENGINE SHUTDOWNS
    This was an intermittent problem that occurred at idle a few times a month for the first 15000 miles. It has cleared by itself or possibly by updated PCM software.

    ENGINE CRADLE
    Clicks started after about 9000 miles. Cradle replaced with a 2001 "stress tested" cradle at about 19000. (was waiting for GM solution)
    Now, 3000 miles later, no clicks.

    ISS
    Clunks (felt) started after 14000 miles. When cradle was replaced, clunks disappeared.

    ENGINE HESITATIONS ("chuggle")
    Intermittent chuggles after start-ups started at about 12000 miles. PCM replaced and additional grounding harness added at 19000 miles. Did not fix problem. New PCM software installed at 20000 miles. Problem solved.

    In addition: Steering wheel replaced (faulty radio switch), wheel liners added to rear wheels, passenger window switch replaced, SVS light appears intermittently - no codes (unresolved), and passenger upper door panel replaced.

    As to the cradle problem, there seems to be a number of varied opinions. My service manager - who I consider very knowledgeable, honest and straight forward - says that he is in constant contact with GM and the clicks WILL come back and they DO occur on some 2001's. He says GM has not yet solved the problem and is authorizing no fixes for now.

    The ISS problem: Recently, the ISS started to show slight clunks again. The service manager told me that replacing the ISS was not a final solution since the parts were the same. Evidently, this is not a "bad batch" , but rather, a design problem. Since then I have read here that there is a new ISS part number and also a fix where grease is injected into the joint, possibly with an installed grease fitting. I am not clear on whether these are optional fixes.

    The above problems are probably too many, even for a new model car, but I was prepared for first year problems when I purchased the car. I like the Impala very much. So far, I have been willing to put up with having to deal with these defects. I still feel the car is the best buy out there. Ultimately, how well it holds up in coming years will tell if it really is a good buy.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Those photos of the impala and monte look computer generated. Probably not actual cars.
    The impala has the same greenhouse as the intrepid and the same taillights as the Century.
  • charts2charts2 Posts: 618
    I agree with you. I think if you look at the Impala (photo) closely I believe GM is making crossovers from their Holden division Caprices that they currently sell overseas and the picture was freshened to make it look like a future GM midsize. With all the new platforms coming it is difficult to comprehend.

    In the last few years Ford, Chrysler and GM have bought up many Eurpean car companies. (Ford Jaguar) (GM-Saab iszuzu, Opel, Daewoo etc)
    I believe Ford was the first American built car with their current Focus that combines American/European technology and styling cues.

    I think in the next few years most American cars built will have world wide components of technology, style and better reliability, that will be needed to survive.

    Now that GM has hired Bob Lutz (overseeing future products designs) and the guy that designed the PT cruiser we might see better looking GM concept cars coming. I am not impressed with the current batch that have been widely publicized.

    www.carconnection.com is probably the best web sight to see the next generation of cars that we will be driving in the next few years. Probably next year sometime we will see "SPY PHOTOS" of the real future Impala. (get rid of those Buick back lights!!!)
  • teoteo Posts: 2,508
    "As to the cradle problem, there seems to be a number of varied opinions. My service manager - who I consider very knowledgeable, honest and straight forward - says that he is in constant contact with GM and the clicks WILL come back and they DO occur on some 2001's. He says GM has not yet solved the problem and is authorizing no fixes for now."

    Ok, this is fine and dandy but I have a problem with some of these "general" statements. If your SD has been in contact with GM Tech assistance, then those guys up in Detroit must have a technical explanation to their claims that the clicks will come back. How they will come back? By magic? By coincedence? By supporting bracket stress/failure? Those are the kind of answers that most of us are looking for. The main issue with the 2000 frames was that the back supporting brackets (2 of them) were not properly welded all the way around the contacting mounts to the frame itself. The original mounts only had welding on the bottom of the brackets so under stress (Turning the wheels, etc), these brackets would move freely on top of the frame generating the clicks and clunks that we all know about. A lot of people continued to have problems for two reasons:

    1) Cradles were not re-welded properly often making the problem worse. Aluminum is very difficult to weld properly and it requires special skill and welding equipment. The great majority of dealers are not prepared to handle this type of welding jobs, hence they have to subcontract race car shops to deal with these. properly welded frames did not give any problems afterwards but these success cases were few and far in between.

    2)The original cradle was kept being replaced with the same defective under-welded frame thus having the problem time and time again.

    So what's the source of the problem this time around??? Is it the the supporting brackets flexing on their mounts? Or is it the whole frame resonating because of stress/flexing somewhere else in the suspension/front end? Is there a more serious structural problem that doesn't necessarily involve the cradle per se anymore, but the cradle becomes the first symptom of such issue?

    See, those are the kind of answers that I want to get from these "Service Directors" or the Technicians up in Detroit. So far and with all due respect to all, these claims are just pure speculation at this time. Now keep in mind that the problem might not be inevitable or might happen on the 2001+ cars, but it doesn't mean that ALL will fail because so far I haven't seen anything that supports that theory, nothing, nada, zero.

    I need clear cut evidence showing that:

    1) the new cradles will fail at some point in time

    2) the newly detected problem areas in these frames

    3)Why the clicks will come back?

    can anyone provide links of copies to such technical documentation? can anyone corroborate this by posting a copy of these documents stating these problems and the frequency/mileage/model year of the vehicles that exhibit these problems?

    My Service Director has very easy access to all these and he doesn't have any supporting documentation that proves otherwise.

    So until someone from here or even GM steps forward with these information, I am afraid that everything discussed here to this point is just unsupported speculation. One 2001 car that has "Cradle problems" is not enough proof. Again it can happen, but I need more technical backing and hardcore evidence of problem continuity.
  • garypengarypen Posts: 1,482
    GM has owned Opel for like a bazillion years. Saab for more than 10. I didn't know about Isuzu. When did that one happen? They have also been in partnership with Toyota, generally recognized as the highest quality auto maker in the world, for many years.

    Ford has also owned Jaguar for over 10 years, and a big piece of Mazda for probably the same, if not longer. In addition, they have always been a huge international car company, outselling GM internationally.

    So, global auto manufacturing is not new to them. Yet, they have always somehow managed to avoid bringing that sort of quality, efficiency, and ergonomic design to their US products.

    An even bigger irony is that it took Ford, where quality is like job 7, to elevate Jaguar's quality to incredible new heights! Who woulda thunk it?
  • gweilogweilo Posts: 118
    Again, I have to say that 00Impala's and now Hank's contacts would have no reason to sggest that there is a continuing problem if there really is none. I mean they could be making some money installing shims or having cradles re-installed etc. but they are going the "no fix at this time" route. And whether the cradle or the frame etc. is the problem is less of an issue as is the fact that they have been unable to rectify the situation to their own satisfaction going into the 3rd model year. As has been said, the forum here is but a small slice of the Impala population out there. N one has suggested taht all '10 cradles are doomed to failure if there is a continuing problem. Could be weak QC or the like. So if we see only one instance of cradle problem after the supposed 01 build fix date, and 2 different tech people suggest there is still a problem, I would tend to extrapolate from that rather than minimize it. i.e. we only see a small slice here in the forum, the techs see the big picture. And I dare say I would suspect techs that are unaware of the issue since the ones who suggest the problem continues don't have an incentive to do so.
    However, I too would REALLY like to see some contact names, phone numbers etc. to get this issue into a format where someone from Chevy/GM will go on the record.

    Hey 00Impala and Hank..how about some contact info???
  • garypengarypen Posts: 1,482
    The "new" and/or re-welded cradles may indeed be hit and miss, and not be cause for immediate concern for post 2000 owners.

    However, it sounds to me like the ISS issue is a very real problem that has not gone away, and is a very real concern for owners of all current generation Impalas, not just 2000's. Actually, it sounds like a GM-wide problem for every one of the models that uses that particular ISS.
  • teoteo Posts: 2,508
    I think the ISS issue is better sort out than the cradle issue is. We all know that the ISS appears to be the by product of a design defect and not a bad batch of parts. And I agree with B4z, the grease refilling TSB seems to be a quick work around until a new redesigned part becomes available.

    But beyond that, what bothers me is the inconsistency in the information surrounding the cradle controversy.
  • garypengarypen Posts: 1,482
    At less than 7K, I haven't racked up enough yet for the ISS and possibly the cradle noises to manifest themselves.

    However, I would imagine they'll surface by the summer, when the heat of the sun and the cold of the AC brings the return of the snapping dashboard. Combined with the click of the cradle and the clunk of the ISS, it should be quite a little symphony. All that's missing is the sloshing of the fuel tank.

    Snap, cradle, clunk...Rice Krispies!
  • gweilogweilo Posts: 118
    Waiting for a new ISS part?
    I thought there was a brand new ISS..saw a part number not long ago. However, since it is so new, it's unknown whether it will be a real fix or another temporary one as might be the case with the cradle. The grease fitting seems to be one of 2 choices the dealers are picking from: install new part or put grease fitting on old part.
    I never got a clear answer on which was the "authorized" approach to the ISS problem.
  • teoteo Posts: 2,508
    Garypen...by last year, my 2000LS had the cradle clicks (very faint)and the steering looseness/clunks plus an already failed A/C compressor.

    Unless you share the "Crystal Ball" and think that your car is going to crap out next year...oh well. I rather give this car the opportunity to see how it unfolds in the next year or so. In the mean time it is tight, noise free and a pleasure to drive...why spoil it? If it ain't broken yet, don;t fix it ;)
  • garypengarypen Posts: 1,482
    I'm, just having fun with a potentially and decidedly unfun situation. It does sound like the ISS is in the cards, even without a tarot deck...or crystal ball.

    I'm not upset or worried right now. California has very consumer-friendly lemon laws.
  • charts2charts2 Posts: 618
    Where did I get that from !!!

    I do believe in the near future when most of these large companies put their heads together, you will be buying world cars/trucks. Huge savings for example to have the Impala sold World wide, or most other US makes.
    I know when Chrysler and Mercedes melded they have had some serious growning pains but I believe in the end better built cars/trucks for all!!!!
  • teoteo Posts: 2,508
    But I taught you were selling it....

    The irony of it all is that I have never had the need to call an attorney or even invoke BBB arbitration or Lemon Law when I had GM buyback the 2000LS...it was a 3 month process which was painless but thanks to the involvement of my Service Director and dealer which hadn't even sold me the car originally in the first place. It just goes to show that if you take care of your customers, they will come for more.

    I think it is up to everyone to decide whether they want to keep their cars or not.
  • The ISS issue affects a number of GM cars. I posted the kit part number and a description of the fix last month. It's on the How-To section.


    http://home.hawaii.rr.com/impala/

  • teoteo Posts: 2,508
    Isuzu and Subaru are both owned by GM as part of the Fuji Heavy Industries, LTD conglomerate.

    GM also has a controlling interest/partnership with Suzuki. the Ingersoll, Ontario Canada is a GM/Suzuki venture.

    By the same token, GM has a manufacturing/engineering partnership with Toyota Motor Co. The NUMMI Freemont California plant is a GM/Toyota venture. They produce there the Toyota Corolla, Chevy Prizm, Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Tacoma small pick up trucks.

    Adam Opel AG has been GM's European outlet since the 1930's. GM also owns Holden of Australia (Which is believed to be the best and most successful GM division, they have killer cars). Also GM owns Saab/Scania car/truck divisions. In the United Kingdom, Opel cars and trucks are sold under the Vauxhall division.

    In Europe, GM also has a controlling interest/partnership with the Fiat Group Spa, and also owns Alfa Romeo which will be coming back to our shores in 2005. The next generation Alfa Romeos (Sweeet cars by the way) will be sold at first thru selected Cadillac dealerships. The Fiat group also owns Lancia, Ferrari and Maserati which also is making a comeback to the US next year.

    GM also owns AM General makers of the famous Hummer Suv for military and civilian applications.

    The "World" US GM divisions are Cadillac and Chevrolet. Pontiac is sold in Mexico but Buick and Olds are strictly sold in North America.

    GM's non-automotive business units include:

    * Electro-Motive (yes GM makes train diesel and electric Locomotives)
    * Hughes Electronics (DirectTV and DirectPC both of which I believed have already been sold to its main market rival, EchoStar)
    *OnStar (Lexus, Acura and Audi are now offering OnStar on some of their new models)
    * GMAC financial and insurance services
    * AC Delco
    * The GM Mastercard

    Delphi was another GM subsidiary until 1998. Delphi Automotive systems is now an independent company that manufactures vehicle parts for many automakers including GM. The ISS was manufactured by Delphi-Saginaw steering systems. the Impala ABS/Traction control system is also made by Delphi.
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