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Comments
Bottom line: if you let the dealer do the "recommended service", it will be very expensive, because the dealers are trying to get rich. If you must use the dealers for your service, just tell them what you want done, don't have them do the "recommended service." This will save tons of money, and most of it is inspections, which anyone can do as well or better than the dealers. Yes, if you had dealers do everything I did it would be more, but not much more than any other car.
Regarding the price, yes, it's a little high, but you get what you pay for in this case, IMHO.
Bee
What sold me on the Rav4?
1. The Toyota quality and dependability. Toyotas hold their value much better then Fords.
2. The appearance inside and out. The CR-V was to boring and bland (IMO).
3. Gas mileage. I always here people with Explorers complain about how much gas they have to put into the tank. And we all know the Escape is not great on gas even with the new 2.3L 4 cylinder. If you don't believe me go to consumerreports.org.
4. Space was not a major factor here. I know the Rav4 is the smallest of the 3 SUV's. Space was not a major concern for me. However, the Rav4 had much more leg room then the CR-V.
5. The ride and the handling was superb.
Anyway, right now I'm looking for the best price. This is sort of fun. Especially when you arrive at the dealership prepared with knowledge (options you want, cost, invoice and value of your trade-in). I have these Toyota salemen nearly begging me to buy from them. The interesting thing is I've found 2 dealerships that say they will beat anyone's best price. I'm about to find out tomorrow.
BTW, Test drove a 2005 Escape with the 2.3L 4 Cyl engine yesterday. If you're considering an Escape get the V6. The 4 cylinder was kind of weak. And the gas mileage isn't a significant improvement over the V6.
This is all (mostly) my opinion, the Rav4 fits my needs best. If I wanted more space and aren't concerned about gas mileage (and reliability) I probably would have gone for the Escape. It's a nice looking vehicle, but so is the Rav4 (IMO).
I was tempted to get an AWD, but that adds about 1000-1200 to the price and I don't think I need it. I've driven front wheel drive 4 cylinder sedans most of my life (with the except of a 4x4 Dodge Dakota when I lived in beautiful Montana) and personally don't think it's worth it for me.
BTW the Dodge Dakota was a MAJOR MISTAKE. The 4 wheel drive went belly up two weeks after buying it. We traded it in for another Dodge mistake, the Dodge Intrepid. When I say we, I mean my wife at the time fell in love with both vehicles. I'm no longer married to her (THANK GOD!! she was in jail Christmas 97 for writing bad/false checks), have much better credit and can make a sound decision based on numerous factors other then my emotions.
Tell me what you think rbleland and mcdawgg, and thanks for your feedback/input.
Assuming you live somewhere the climate is benign, the AWD is probably not necessary for you. I'm in southern B.C. (don't know why the flag is the US one, not Canadian??) so we have some winter and also some forestery roads - AWD is important to me. Your call there, FWD is cheaper, lighter and maybe slightly less maintenance. I do think the larger 235 tires are good from a handling POW, but your call again.
Enjoy your shopping !!!
I can understand why you would want the AWD model. If I were in Montana I would go for the AWD model too.
Thanks again!
I think the blue is the nicest but it is a subjective call for sure. Good luck!!
In the end we liked features in both vehicles and have no bias for or against either manufacturer since we currently own a 92 Toyota MR2 and 94 Honda Civic and both of those cars are far superior to anything we owned previously from Detroit or Germany.
We liked the additional cargo space of the CRV for my bike, but I can easily disassemble it and make the fit in the RAV, plus the RAV factory rack will accept Thule and Yakima bike mounts according to those man. websites. The RAV felt more car-like, and the FWD version is more fuel efficient that the AWD CRV we were considering (primarily because of the options pkg, not the AWD since we live in the south). With gas expected to top $3/gallon this summer the roughly 500 lb weight difference with roughly equivalent torque/hp is substantial and that factored into our decision.
Interestingly, it's easier in my area to get a better deal on a CRV than a RAV4 despite the fact that the CRV appears to be outselling the RAV by a considerable margin. But that may also be due to the fact that we are ordering a RAV equipped exactly the way we want it rather than getting one off a lot or through dealer trade.
The beauty in ordering one, however, is that you purchase exactly what you want rather than what (in this case) Gulf States Toyota thinks you should get in terms of options bundles with you car. Thus, no extraneous (for us) Extra Mile Pkgs and the like. Of course we have to wait 5-6 months for delivery, but we aren't in any rush.
In the end the best price we could get on the RAV4 is 6% over Dealer Wholesale (according to the Consumer Reports price sheet I bought) and a little less than 4% over invoice whereas the CRV was 5% over Dealer Wholesale and 3% over invoice. In OK we pay a 3% excise tax based on actual price paid, not MSRP, to the state plus tag and title, but it is not part of the total paid to the dealer.
We ordered our FWD, 5 speed, Everglade Green RAV with the following options: Factory Installed:(AW),(UP),(GY),(KE),(DR),(RF),(MG). Port Installed: (CF),(NI),(P4) For a grand total out-the-door Price of $21,455. It's not an AWD or Automatic, but it's obviously better than $5500 cheaper than the Edmunds road tested 2004 RAV.
We could have gotten the 5 speed EX CRV for $21.090
I don't know if any of the above info will be useful, but I figured I owed something to the group for all the helpful information gleaned from these discussions. Obviously, in the end, the best choice is what best suits each driver/owner's needs, but both small "SUVs" are well made and have excellent reliability. And both appear to have legions of admirers.
Anyway, here in Chicago the CR-V's are cheaper priced, but I believe it is because they have a large supply here in Chicagoland.
Are you sure you're north of 49 and not one of those Washington Vancouverites? :-)
Steve, Host
BTW, I replied to a Ford dealer here, I told him I was buying a Rav4 for the following reasons:
"Price (value), depreciation, quality and mileage were key factors."
This is what he replied back with:
"I believe that the Ford Escape is a better value for the reasons you stated. . .
Plus...When given the choice.....I buy American."
I then replied back to him the following:
"That is your opinion; however, go to consumerreports.org, Edmunds.com, kbb.com and others. Look at the history and ratings. Isn't a lot of Fords made in Mexico and Canada (nothing against my Canadian/Mexican friends, I was just trying to make a point)? Toyota has many models built in the US. I think the buy American phrase is a bit blurred. My vehicles are assemble at various plants throughout the world with parts from numerous countries. To say that buying a Ford means you're buying American isn't true, you're just buying from an American company that has vehicles built all over the globe.
I test drove the new 2005 2.3L yesterday, weak and loud. And the gas mileage isn't much of an improvement over the V6."
I haven't received a reply. Of course a Ford dealer is gonna say that, if they didn't he wouldn't sell any cars. It's the same for any other car dealer, they are going to say their vehicle is the best yadda, yadda, yadda. But in my opinion and tons of others, including Edmunds and Consumer Reports, the Rav4 is a better pick for me.
My wife has a 2002 RAV4 - with the 2.0L engine. I remember hauling at least 600 pounds of lime in it and it was a bit of a struggle. Add 240 for me and 100 for the wife for a total of 940. If your weight approaches this consider a vehicle with a bigger engine. IMVHO.
I wish some current Rav4 owners would post here more often.
As of today I have yet to buy my Rav4. They won't give me much for my trade-in so I'm trying to sell it before I buy the Rav4. The two local dealers keep calling me about twice a week. I think when I do sell my car I'm going to get a deal on the Rav4 that I want. The funny thing about this is the CR-V prices here are dropping. You can get a 2004 CR-V AWD EX for 21k. But they would have to drop the price considerably for me to purchase a CR-V. The Price to Ugly factor ratio would change too. LOL
Whether American Honda is offering dealers extra incentives or dealers are more motivated to unload stock they are cheaper than an equivalently optioned RAV4.
Like smsuv we found the RAV more aesthetically pleasing, and a more car-like drive. I think that if we lived up north where travel in snowy conditions is a more constant issue we might have leaned more to the CRV despite aesthetic issues. However, even though I believe the Toyota AWD system superior to the Honda AWD, we would have been priced out of the AWD RAV4. The funny thing is I spent 30+ years of my life living in MI and WI and drove awful rwd American made sedans for all, but one of the years I lived there and somehow managed to survive.
Smsuv is smart to sell their old vehicle rather than trade it in because the dealer will always gouge you on the trade-in (or look for additional profit somewhere else) and because it will take that issue off the table and make your negotiating much simpler. We have also found great financing through Capital One (there is a link on Edmunds site). It's something like 3.4% right now, which is substantially better than any lender in our area and approaches some of the best manufacturer financing.
Given that RAV4s aren't selling that well--at least in my area does anyone know why Toyota isn't offering any incentives? My local dealer has about 6 Ravs on the lot, 2 of which are 2003 models. Could it be because they are imported rather than made in the US/Canada/Mexico?
I've looked closely at the CRV and Forester XT, even the Honda Element - but keep coming back the RAV. I've been so spoiled by the RAV's reliability so I'm leery of anything else.
I'm waiting for "confirmed" rumors of what Toyota will do in the 2006 RAV model year (which would be released in the fall of 2005).
Rumors abound of the RAV being discontinued in 2006, or continuing with a V6 option of the RAV in 2006, etc.
Anyone out there know someone who works for Toyota and can give us a confirmed rumor?
Did I mention before that you shouldn't bring your wife with you car shopping?
I also read--although I don't remember where--that the Jeep Liberty and Honda CRV are battling for first place in terms of total sales and that they were followed by the Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute twins. Don't know how far below the above mentioned small SUVs the Rav4 ranked. I tried accessing a website that supposedly offers sales figures, but couldn't download the info and now I seem to have lost the web address. Maybe someone knows where fairly up-to-date sales figures can be gotten.
I certainly don't mean to claim any inside information or to mislead folks about how well a given vehicle is selling and my previous statements should only be viewed as anectdotal observation of a local trend. I thought if the Rav4 was selling poorly it might give me some additional leverage when buying, but the dealer can dispute the figures anyway, or may not care.
There seam to be 2 types in general, one that connects to the area where the spare tire is and racks that connect to a 2" hitch. To my surprise our RAV has the bumper in the back and when I pulled out the little rubber Toyota logo...low and behold a hitch. HOWEVER it appears to only be 1" square. Is this another one of those wanna be SUV features that are really meant more for show than play? Certainly I would never tow anything with this RAV...it just bearly moves itself. Still if a bike rack can be hooked up here I'd like to hear about it. THANKS!
I was told by the dealer from whom I ordered my 04 Rav4 that the Rav4 uses a timing chain, not a timing belt and that it never has to be replaced. I believe that this was backed up on Toyota's website.
My 1992 MR2 has a non-interference timing belt which I replaced at 58,000 miles.
Anyone have a clarification?
Ask your Toyota dealer when they expect to start selling the xB.
My next car may be the Xa - good for a commuter to the train station car.
The X's have a 1.5 L engine, the RAV4 2.4 - big difference here IMVHO
1.5L engine - excellent on gas, but not on power. It might be what they like to label small cars with as "peppy"
2.4L engine - good on gas, and good power.
Scion is a big mistake. It might be popular in Japan, but everybody I've talked to doesn't like them, even the Toyota salesman told me they where ugly.