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Comments
I like our RAV4s and would stick with it over the CRV or other small SUVs based on Consumer Reports ratings.
I looked online but could not find it.
Bottom line is.. if you get hit in the back in a RAV4/CR-V or back into a stanchion prepare to get a lot of damage.
I think the only small SUV's with decent bumpers are the Escape/Tribute/Mariner and the Forester.
Almost every RAV4 I see in the city has the left rear corner bumper pushed in.
Good Luck.
To the person asking about leather seats being installed: This only applies if you are getting side air bags. I personally wouldn't do it if the second side air bag comes out of the side of the seat (I feel there is a potential for error). Can anyone say if that is where the other side air bag comes from? The RAV4's I've looked at had "side air bag tags" on the seat but no plastic "hatch".
If you are not getting side air bags I don't think there is any reason not to, seats are easily removed and installed.
After checking the IIHS, I unfortunately learned that the Toyota fared poorly in IIHS side-impact tests, furthermore, the driver and passenger suffered significant inquiry. Even more disturbing is after visiting several Toyota dealerships with anticipation of purchasing this vehicle with side airbag protection, the option could not be found. The majority of RAVs are only available with just front and side airbags...Toyota should make them standard. I "GET THE FEELING" Toyota is more concerned with profits and the safety it claims.
This problem was VERY disappointing and definitely questions the credibility of Consumer Union.
Maybe more of the 2005 RAV4s will have the side airbag option installed--I read that the new model year begins in October. If you refuse to buy the models that lack side airbags, Toyota will get the picture. Admittedly, it's hard to find a vehicle that's reliable and safe and affordable.
This is not just with the RAV4, but the case for any Toyota model where the side airbags are optional.
The crash tests on the 2004 Toyota RAV4 are POOR.
Just like their reviews, their communications is poor.
Hard to believe they claim the Toyota RAV4 too be so safe when it did so poor in the crash test.
OVERALL SIDE EVALUATION: POOR
Poor Toyota...too bad safety is not a priority.
Toyota tries to be so concerned about safety, yeah fails when it comes to their actual vehicles.
DO NOT BUY A TOYOTA RAV4 unless you want an UNSAFE vehicle.
We tried in vain to requisition an 04 Rav w/side airbags back in March and waited 5 months to find out that Gulf States Toyota couldn't or wouldn't get one equipped that way for our dealership. According to our salesman, a total of two w/ side airbags had been shipped to the five-state region over the preceding three months. For whatever reason, this is the way Gulf States was handling this option--I don't know what they are doing for 05.
As a result, my wife and I bought an 02 Rav. Is it less safe than equivalent Ravs with side airbags? Almost certainly! Do we feel it an unsafe vehicle? No, or at least no worse than our other two vehicles that lack side airbags.
However, to suggest that purchasing a RAV is an unsafe choice is an exaggeration. Lets face it, many SUVs are less safe when compared to sedans and coupes due to their higher center of gravity and tendency to tip a wheel in avoidance maneuvers. Let's not forget that many truck-based SUVs do not have to comply with safety standards that are applied to all standard cars (sedans/coupes). Isn't buying a convertible inherently more dangerous than an equivalent sedan--even if both have side impact airbags--should the car be involved in a rollover.
I guess my point is that most vehicle purchases involve certain safety trade-offs. There are a sizable number of cars on the road that have no airbags or anti-lock brakes including plenty of Volvo wagons and sedans that were, and are, touted for their safety features. Should someone who can't afford the newest car or truck with the latest safety features be told not to buy a car because it's unsafe? My problem is with the word "Unsafe" vs. "less safe".
I do agree that Toyota should make this either a standard feature--as with the Honda Cr-V--or a widely available option. I think a better way to get Toyota of America to equip vehicles with side air bags is to let the dealership know you consider it an important option and are delaying purchase until you can get one so equipped rather than labeling other stock as unsafe.
It is not that RAV4 is "unsafe", however, when you compare it to others in it's class such as the CRV with standard side airbags, the RAV4 is more prone to the driver and passenger suffering injuries. Above all, the point of this posting was that Consumer Reports which for some people that don't even look at what they are buying, but simply go by what CRs says you should own, they put the RAV4 as their best small SUV. So given what you have confirmed about the availability of getting a Toyota RAV4 with side airbags, their recommendations have a lot to be desired as they are recommending a vehicle with POOR crash results.
However, this is the case with any Toyota when the airbags are optional...you will likely never find one on the lot. A sales person actually told a friend of mine one time when he was looking at the RAV4 that they were not really necessary, yet I imagine if he actually had one in stock, he would have used it as the vehicle having an advantage over the competition. It all comes down to value and price and Toyota should equip their vehicles accordingly and stop trying to play both sides of the story.
I generally have had much success with Consumer Reports' recommendations and I believe that CU, the publisher, attempts to balance a lot of competing, and sometimes conflicting, information from the various agencies who test for crash worthiness. I'm not defending them in this particular instance, but the folks who rate the products do stick their collective necks out on various occasions to report unsafe vehicles (Acura and Suzuki SUVs come to mind). I also read the Consumer's Guide on both the Cr-V and Rav. They much preferred the CR-V, but it had nothing to do with safety.
In the end safety wasn't as paramount an issue for us as it might have been if we had kids or had prior serious accidents. Our own insurance agent quoted us nearly identical rates for both the 04 Rav and 04 CR-V. He attributed the slightly higher rate on the Rav ($60 more/year) to Toyota replacement parts being more expensive than Honda.
There are many vehicles that don't perform well in crash tests. Incidentally, most accidents are caused by driver error. CR now provides readers with this information in order that they can decide for themselves what vehicle best suits their needs. If you decide that the RAV (or any other vehicle) is not safe enough for you and your family, don't buy it. Don't blame CR.
If you really believe that, and you're that concerned, trade to something safer today. Don't wait.
Wouldn't that be the smart, safe thing to do?
Does anyone have any idea if I could trade in my RAV4 and lease a CRV, or maybe a pickup with side-airbags V6 only manual or AT is ok. I'll be keeping it for two years till that SUT comes out so reliability ain't an issue for me. Any suggestions please, asap. I'm devoting this entire weekend to dispose my RAV 4 C O F F I N of a joke.
Thanks in advance for all the responses.
My recollection is that CU was sued by Acura, but eventually prevailed in court. Maybe someone else remembers.
I agree with Revit about CU's methodology as far as recommending new cars. If your bottom line is safety it is easy to get those figures from the various insurance and Government agencies who rank the performance of most cars/truck/suvs.
The best way to get the attention of Toyota of America is to complain to your dealer and/or refuse to but a Rav4 without side airbags. I don't blame Toyota for failing to include them when they were a much rarer option on most all cars except luxury models. However, I do think now is the time for action.
Why not??
That is who I was quoting, from his earlier post.
I don't view my side airbag-less RAV4 as a coffin on wheels.
And I intend to keep it for another 10+ years.
-ss4
Refer to the actual crash test at Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.
I also want to correct some information in my earlier posting #1590. The vehicle was the Isuzu Trooper not the Susuki. Isuzu made a similar vehicle for Honda (prior to Honda manufacturing their own SUV). The lawsuit was dropped by Isuzu. Variety is good. It would be boring if everyone liked the same things or if everyone thought the same way.
CR is just stating what Toyota is claiming. If side air are not available in your area. Talk to Toyota.
"Refer to the actual crash test at Insurance Institute for Highway Safety."
I frequently do. If you would have read my posting that is precisely what I stated. CR does not crash test vehicles but they print the results of the organizations (including the IIHS) that do. The information is there to help people decide which vehicle best suits their needs.
I guess you missed the section in the Consumer Reports where it states that electric stability control (ESC) is standard this year on the RAV, A first for a small SUV.
I've read some of your postings on other message boards. You're a real Honda fan. I'm not knocking it but it's a fact. It appears to interfere with some of your assumptions. Don't knock CR for rating the RAV and the Matrix higher than the CR-V. Although not perfect, I'll rely on CR before other car mags for all vehicle related information.
I used to be an avid Toyota fan,coz I have seen a Toyota Corona with 756,000 klms, roughly 472,000 miles.The car look ugly from the outside but purred like a car out from the dealership.Haven't seen any car yet with that kind of mileage and coming from a country where heavy traffic is around 10 miles per hour. It was amazing to see a car run that much and I bet may still be going.That was about 3.5 years ago. I subscribe to CR too via the net and the magazine (the magazine I discontinued,as a protest to CR), thats why I have faith on Toyotas in the area of reliability.
I also test droved the Rav 4 and the Honda CRV before buying it and even with my laymans senses I find the Rav 4, more peppy, agile and better looking. Thus I bought a RAV 4 2003, from Antwerpen Toyota Maryland, and they charged me 16.5% APR coz they say I didn't have enough credit history.(I was only in the U.S for 10 months). They further told me that sideairbags are a joke and you don't really need it coz it harms small passengers. The naive me bought that line without question. Eight months later, I was wondering why Honda gave me a 4.5% APR on a Pilot for my wife. My co-workers who came to this country as nurses too got a Honda Odyssey on their 7th month of stay. APR 6%. Does Toyota have a racial preference among buyers? Correct me if I'm wrong but that is how I feel. I could give you the Vin no of that Odyssey to prove I'm not fabricating anything.
In the course of my work as an OR nurse I was thrown into orthopaedics and you would see an amazing difference in terms of injuries and probably survival rate of T-boned victims with and without side-airbags. It is downright scary,and messy, my tough stomach gives in sometimes. Even the best doctors would't be able to patch up those mutilated bodies back to even a bit of normalcy. If you see if first hand you would close your eyes and shell out more money just to get a car with sideairbags. The few thousand bucks is well worth it.Believe me a portruding left ribcage, or losing half of a human face is not a pretty site, much more if it is you or a family member.If you face the same predicament or line of work that I am in, you would understand why I call my RAV4 a cute ute I mean C O F F I N.
Yes, I wouldn't deny I'm a converted Honda fan now. I find Honda more humane coz they put most of their safety features on their low end models and not just on the more expensive ones. Models which are about the only one I could afford 2 years ago.Toyota lost me (not that it matters to them losing one client for life who will make it a lifelong crusade to convert people to any brand but Toyota, converted 6 and counting)because their dealers lied to me about the importance of sideairbags, swindled me at 16.5% APR (people with really bad credit got better rates than me)THE SWINDLING PART I CAN TOLERATE BUT LYING ABOUT SIDE-AIRBAGS IS UNFORGIVEABLE.
To sum it up I converted to Honda because Honda has a social conscience that translates to making safe vehicles for the moneyed as well as those with less in life.Toyota is out for profit and profit alone.In it's quest to unseat GM as the topdog in the car business, it has forgotten the very people that put it as topdog no 2, the masses, the very market that laps up their products with unwavering trust and faith on the T brand.Toyota, how much more billions do you need before you even try putting a sideairbags on your low end cars? The one that most of the masses can afford.
PS
Nevertheless, I'm in this forum to solicit the advice of people who had experiences with Pick-ups. Whats the best pick-up to lease for two years out their next to the Tacoma (I was 3 days close to getting one to replace my Rav 4 but the Tacoma tipped during the rollover test, besides I don't think it has airbags too.)The pickup should have sideairbags and a V6 engine, manual or AT is OK.
I hope you learned not to take the salesperson's words at face value. Some of them will take advantage of people who do not know any better.
Do your own research, including researching financing options, and make your decisions based on that. Learn to protect yourself.
I don't doubt that a vehicle with side airbags is safer.
But I've driven for over 30 years, most of the time in vehicles with NO airbags at all, and I've been fine, so I don't view a modern vehicle with front airbags but without side airbags as a coffin. That is ridiculous, and that is where you lose sympathy and credibility.
Don't like your RAV4 because you think it is unsafe? Get rid of it; it has high resale value. And stop crying about it.
Thanks a lot.
I realize I may be at the wrong forum coz no one is taking seriously my plea for advice on what is one of the better pick-ups to lease.
Could you direct me to the most unbias site, The brand of the lease truck does not matter to me as long as it is not a Toyota Pick-up.
For the record, inspite my knocking of CR, for them recommending the RAV4, I still have faith of them. My IPOD, PDA,computer, lawnmower,and interior or exterior paints are CR best buys. When it comes to cars, only then I would take their advice cautiously.
Why can't you find your way to a Pickup forum???
auto companies have resisted safety belts and air bags for years. why direct your venom at car manufacturers, when their history shows they always resisted safety and clean air standards?
if side air bags are so important to you, quit complaining and do something about it.
get hold of your legislator and have them enact a law like they did with catalytic convertors, seat belts, and front air bags.
your other option is to not buy the rav4. either way stop complaining.
all you're doing here is whining.
Your issues with Toyota seem to clouding your reasoning senses. It's like your trying to blame Toyota and CR for your decision to buy the RAV without side air bags. The RAV was recommended by CR based on reliability and how well it perfomed during testing (period). Information reguarding safety issues are available in the Consumer Reports and on different web sites.
The fact remains Toyota manufactures reliable vehicles throughout the world. If you wish not purchase one again is fine. I'm certainly not going to recommend any truck for you to buy. If it malfunctioned or did not perform (on the road or in an accident) as well as you expected, you may be angry with me.
No hard feelings. Good luck in your search for your dream truck.
Thanks a million,I'll still consult CR now and then for the truck I need.I hope the other forums I've visited would answer my questions about Pick-ups, last time I've visited it, twas an endless discussion of packages, options, launch dates for 2005's.Twas beyond my poor brain could understand.
I love this country coz of someones freedom to whine and be a crybaby in an intelligent way without getting shot. Whiners have made cars a lot safer.Whiners shake up status qous leading to better and better products.Reasonable whiners make this forum a great place to be.
You have a good day.
you're right about whiners. reminds me of the spoiled kid stomping his feet at the grocery store because his mother won't buy him a candy bar.
as adults there is a better way.
You can start here: Lost in the Town Hall? Ask the Pickups Host for directions!
tidester, host
I test drove a Rav4 (loved it) but does anyone know how the Subaru Forrester seating height is like before I go Subaru dealer and listen to their salesmen?
This site seem more active then the one I posted on perviously.
Thank you
Even worse is Toyota then put the RAV4 at their top pick in small SUVs and have the nerve to then comment on one of the pros of the vehicle is it's excellent crash test. Give me a brake, Consumer Reports is deceiving the consumer and manipulating their reviews.