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Pontiac Vibe

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Comments

  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Sunfire is indeed still around though I think it's dead in 2004.

    As for the Vue, word is out. All December Vue's at the local dealer are sold out and that isn't a unique situation. There will also be a marketing blitz come the Superbowl. I think the Vue will sell very well.

    As for the Vibe, it stands well on it's own. The new 02 Aztek looks much better also. I want to see it up close though.
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    The Sunfire will be discontinued after 2003. The big news for the Sunfire is the new Opel 2.2L Ecotec engine (Yes the same engine found in the Opel Speedster).

    The Vibe is set to replace the Sunfire after 2003 since Pontiac will not get a "Delta" car replacement. The "Delta" platform was developed by Adam Opel AG in Germany and it will be used in the next generation Opel Astra, Chevrolet Cavalier (Which will be identical to the European Astra, in other words a German VW Golf/Jetta killer)and the upcoming 2003 Saturn ION sedan which will replaced the aging S-Series sedans and coupes.

    In case you haven't noticed, GM has already dicontinued the Chevy Prizm (a.k.a current generation Toyota Corolla) to make space for the Pontiac Vibe production at the NUMMI Fremmont California assembly plant. Chevy will not receive the next generation Toyota Corolla platform because of the Delta car. The Delta car will replace both, the Cavalier and Prizm. Also the Chevy Metro has been already discontinued, so the Chevy Astra will be the new entry level Euro derived sedan.

    The Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix are spin-offs of the next generation 2003 Toyota Corolla set to debut sometime early next year.

    The first GM division to receive the Delta Opel car will be Saturn in 2003 with the ION.
  • leafguy2727leafguy2727 Member Posts: 83
    Good discussion going here, thanks for all the input!! FYI I received a quote on a P5 but I simply found that with the seats up there was much less "trunk" space then in my existing cavalier. I hope the vibe has more space then the P5 with the back seats up!! Anyways here is my quote from back in June (Canadian Funds):

    $22,495 - Auto
    INCLUDED - Moonroof
    INCLUDED - Air
    $820 - Freight
    $100 - Air Tax
    $75 - Gas Tax
    $196 - Registration

    $23,686 Total
    $500 Discount

    $23186

    Being in T.O. Add 8% sales tax and 7% GST

    $26,664 Grand total
  • leafguy2727leafguy2727 Member Posts: 83
    FYI,


    Canadiandriver.com has a preview out on the Matrix, not sure if the link has been posted yet.


    http://www.canadiandriver.com/previews/03matrix.htm

  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Where did you get that pricing for the Vibe?
  • smwgn2smwgn2 Member Posts: 3
    I believe that the Pontiac US website now lists the Vibe cargo capacity as 24.6 cu. ft with the rear seats up. That makes the cargo size intermediate between the small hatchbacks like the P5 and the small wagons like the Jetta.
  • focusmatt2focusmatt2 Member Posts: 106
    I wouldn't really say it's a VW Golf/Jetta killer - the Astra sells very well over in Europe, but it simply is considered an appliance. It drives fairly well, almost as well as a Focus, but the interior and exterior quality are on par with American GM - i.e. not that good. The car is being taken upscale though to match the Focus, but also, so is the Golf - Bora; in fact, the next-gen Golf is going to probably be a step above the Astra and Focus and be more in competition with the Alfa 147, BMW Compact, and the Peugeot 307.

    Although anything's better than the Cavalier, I think the Astra for Chevrolet will be more suited to take on the Focus.

    However, the Focus will have received updates by then and so the whole market looks very competitive.
  • leafguy2727leafguy2727 Member Posts: 83
    That quote I posted was for the P5, I just wanted to show what a load competitors vehicle was going for.
  • mlm4mlm4 Member Posts: 401
    It was on the turntable, so no one was able to sit in it. The rear load floor looks like solid plastic, no carpet back there. Shifter comes out of the console at a 45 degree angle like in the Toyota Matrix.

    image

    image
  • mlm4mlm4 Member Posts: 401
    Since the Vibe is mechanically a Toyota, and since the last "non-GM" Pontiac in memory was the Korean-built LeMans, how confident should one be of a Pontiac service technicians' ability to work on this car? Would one be better off taking it to a Toyota dealer (although I suppose for warranty work this would not be possible)? Just wondering...
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Mixed bag here:


    http://www.detnews.com/autosweekly/0111/28/lead/lead.htm


    As for taking your Pontiac to the Toyota dealer, if it is anything like the Prizm/Corolla was, there will be no easy parts interchange manual. Some parts are identical, some are not. And the ONLY way to tell is to try. Most dealers of both persuasions frown bigtime when the other make is presented for service. Take that thing to the Pontiac dealer, I bet they will say!

  • TupTup Member Posts: 200
    I must admit that I like the profile of the Vibe better than the Matrix...but my wife is anti-Pontiac and doesn't want to spend the next ??years explaining to people that it's really a Toyota....so we have a Matrix on order. It's the treatment of the D pillar at the back that I like better on the Vibe. The D pillar is buried under the glass in the Matrix and is therefore black...so we ordered a black matrix to help compensate for this.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Why would you have to "explain" the fact you own a Pontiac???????

    Pontiac is one of the most famous of car names in America with a rich and proud heritage. If it was a Hyundia I would understand, but it sounds like your wife hangs out with a bunch of import loving snobs to me. I have had 2 Pontiacs in my life an I would be proud to drive another!!
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    leafguy : Oops, I didn't read your post properly. Sorry.

    mlm4 : Great pictures!! Thank you.
  • TupTup Member Posts: 200
    Oh come on!! It's ok for you to not like Hyundai but it's not ok for my wife to not like pontiac!?! If you like Pontiac's....fine. As for the rich proud heritage....hmmm....dare I say Aztec? Also, while the quality of GM vehicles has improved (thanks in no small part to foreign competition) most evidence (ex JD power) still suggests that imports (such as Toyota) are still more problem free. They also tend to hold their value a little better.

    Why would liking Import cars make one a snob? As for imports....most pontiacs are imports to us here in Canada....as a matter of fact....the Matrix is made in Canada (along with corolla's etc) and the Vibe is made in California!

    As for why she would have to explain the fact that she owns a Pontiac...it might be due to the fact that several people in her family have had not so good luck with GM.....(ex faulty $$$$ rear disk brakes) and the Vibe...despite the pontiac front end...is really a Toyota!

    Personally, I try to send my business to who makes the best value and best quality vehicle regardless of manufacturer...and if my research and instincts say that it's a GM...then that's what I will buy...but that hasn't happened so far. But then there are always people who think everyone who doesn't agree with them is wrong.
  • amoralesamorales Member Posts: 196
    Hmmmm..it looks like it's mother was an AZTEK GT and the father a Toyota Landcruiser
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Its brother is a Toyota Corolla and its cousin, from which it inherited its engines, is a Toyota Celica. For even more insight, go check out the Toyota Matrix, which will be built in Canada. The Vibe will be built at NUMMI in California, vice the Prizm, soon to be ancient history.
  • amoralesamorales Member Posts: 196
    very great. Long lasting, trouble free and built in Fremont by GM & Toyota. AWESOME!! The GM
    3.5L DOHC 215hp V6 could have been a contender engine. Maybe too big...best to leave well enough alone...
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    If you don't know that Pontiac has a rich and proud heritage then you know nothing about cars other than what you read in Consumer Reports, that is obvious. Ya Aztek isn't great looking but it's not a bad vehicle quality wise. Need I remind you of Toyota's ultra ugly Echo and RAV-4 vehicles???

    I am not trying to start a fight, but putting down the Pontiac does not sit well with me. No GM does not have Toyota levels of quality, but GM has been quietly rising through the ranks over the past 5 years. In fact, 3 of it's divisions are in the top 15 car brands. Generally it's cars have average reliability and are getting better all the time.

    As for the brakes on your former car, I have no idea. My last Pontiac was a 98 Grand Prix and it was flawless. Send your business where ever you want, but don't put down the Pontiac name just because you had a bad experience!
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Those who are concerned with service should take into consideration that the Vibe is more Toyota than Pontiac. Toyotas and Pontiacs will come out of the same factory and Toyota has a very good rep. for quality. My family has owned two Prizm and put a over 200,000 miles on them with the only warranty service a replacement of radio and reglue the rear power window. Can you say bulletproof. Expect the Vibe to have excellent quality as it is made at NUMMI where the Prizm, Corolla and Toyota trucks have all been manufactured.
  • mlm4mlm4 Member Posts: 401
    My question was not about the quality, but rather how much confidence I should have in the GM-trained technicians at the Pontiac dealer who may never have seen a Toyota engine before. Sometimes they don't even seem to know how to fix the cars they have worked on for years, but I attribute that to a workforce that is diluted with too few mechanics who really know their stuff.
  • TupTup Member Posts: 200
    Obviously you didn't read my message well. I never said I had owned a pontiac. So because I don't agree with your admiration of Pontiac, I have a snobby wife and know nothing about cars since I don't respect Pontiac's heritage. Well, heritage won't help your vehicle stop after the rear brakes seize up because GM put in faulty components that corrode after exposure to road salt. Yes they have corrected it in newer models but it was a very well documented problem that happened to my in-laws. Speaking of heritage and tradition, I know of another GM line....the oldest name in car manufacturing in North America....Oldsmobile. Gm has really shown their respect of that heritage and tradition.
    Incidently, I wasn't really putting down Pontiac before...just saying my wife doesn't like Pontiacs....And that I have never felt compelled to buy one yet. I think most people have their own opinions about different brands of vehicles...you yourself seem to not respect Hyundai's....but yet even they have gotten much better in quality and looks lately. Hey, loving and hating cars is part of our culture. It's all up for good natured debate. However, in your defence of Pontiac...you felt it necessary to say that I know nothing about cars except what I read in Consumer reports (something you made up) and that my wife hangs around with a bunch of snobs...something else you made up...not a great way to try to convince anyone of anything.

    So lets get back to discussing this Pontiac badged Toyota shall we....
  • odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    The Toyota and Pontiac actually won't be coming out of the same plant. The Matrix will be built exclusively in Toyota's Cambridge, Ont. plant (which makes the Corolla and Solara right now), whereas the Vibe will be built at the GM-Toyota joint-venture plant, NUMMI, at Fremont, CA.

    One of the big questions to ponder down the road will be whether Vibe and Matrix have similar build quality, or whether one plant will be better than the other.

    Mlm4 raises a valid point about how confident we can be in Pontiac dealers' servicing of Toyota engines. Matrix owners will have the leg up here, since Toyota dealers have already been servicing the 2.0 litre engine for years in the Corolla/Celica. And since it IS a Toyota engine, apart from routine maintenance, Pontiac mechanics are rarely going to see it, adding to the lack of experience they'll get :)

    The point may be overstated, however. Even Chrysler dealers managed to figure out how to keep Mitsubishi engines going past the warranty period. I'm sure the Pontiac mechanics will have an easier go of it with Toyota engines.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Twist what I said all around.. fine. You said "Your wife would have to explain her Pontiac is really a Toyota to her friends" implies that there is something wrong with owning a Pontiac. If you can't see that that would be VERY offensive to someone who likes Pontiacs then I can't argue with you.

    BTW...My neighbor has had an awful experience with his 99 Honda Accord (as your in-laws had with their Pontiac). I certainly don't think that implies all Hondas are not good cars!! Don't dispute the fact that GM has made some bad cars, but implying there is something wrong with owning a Pontiac and there is something redeeming in the fact that it's a Toyota certainly makes one wonder (a) whether you read CR and believe it all and (b) if your wife's friends all drive Hondas and Toyotas. Maybe I'm wrong.. but that's how your comments came off. If I'm wrong.. I apologize!
  • dverespeydverespey Member Posts: 56
    I would expect the quality between the two plants to be equivalent(Based on prior JD Power results) Plus there has been a substancial investment at NUMMI in order to produce this new model. There is a great deal of focus on quality.
  • TupTup Member Posts: 200
    I actually haven't twisted your words...you have twisted mine. Simply because my wife would want to explain to her friends that the Vibe is really a Toyota does not mean that she is putting down Pontiac.

    Let me try to explain it this way. If you really like Pontiac vehicles...and all your friends know you like and appreciate Pontiac's quality and engineering and that's what you usually buy..then if you bought a Toyota that was really made by Pontiac, then they might think it odd and you might find yourself explaining to them that it's really a Pontiac and that's why you bought it. Similarly, My wife happens to like Toyota's....their quality and reliability, her friends know this and so that is why she would explain to them that the Vibe has a Pontiac name but is actually a Toyota. This is not saying Pontiacs are bad...just her reasons for buying it. Some of her friends actually own Pontiacs and would not feel slighted...after all, they had their reasons for their purchases. It's actually one of those trivia things that would come up when discussing the vehicle. How you decided that we must read Consumer reports for car info(I don't usually) or that her friends are snobs is beyond me.
  • TupTup Member Posts: 200
    I would think it will cost GM more money to bring the Vibe to Canada esp. Currently the Prism isn't sold in Canada and so no GM dealers have any parts for the Toyota engines. Gm will have to supply parts for both engines to all their dealers (of which there are many more than Toyota) for that one vehicle. Toyota will have parts in stock since the engines are used in both the Corolla and the Celica. This should mean that if a replacement part is needed...the Toyota dealer is more likely to have it in stock.

    I'm also wondering if the fact that GM and Toyota can share some of the development costs of the vehicle, if this will help keep the price lower.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Anyone reading what you said would interpret it as a slight towards Pontiac. Maybe that's not what you meant, but that is exactly how it reads. There is no twisting of word required.

    Like I said, if what you said didn't come out like you meant it, fine. It's just that there a number of domestic car bashers around here and I get tired of them coming into discussions and making broad statements like "GM sucks".

    Peace.
  • odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    Another interesting point to ponder is how resale values will go. Typically resale values on Toyota vehicles is higher than on GM and other domestic brands. Will this transpire with the Matrix/Vibe? Will the market figure out that the Vibe is a disguised Toyota, and is thus worth more? If not, what impact will this have on leasing terms?

    As Tup points out, we never got the Prizm here in Canada, so I don't know what the Prizm/Corolla experience was. Any thoughts?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    NUMMI makes Toyota Tacoma and Corolla and I know the Tacoma will continue though I am not sure if the Corolla will continue to be produced at NUMMI. I was trying to make the point that Toyota and Pontiac products were rolling out of the same plant though I did not explain this point well enough. Tacoma, Corolla and Prizm produced at this plant have all had exemplary quality and I would expect the quality to continue with the Vibe.

    Some have concerns with Pontiac mechanics understanding Toyota engines, this may indeed turn out to be a problem, however, Chevrolet has done quite well with service on the Toyota Corolla twin Prizm, if the past is any indicator there will not be big problems with Vibe service.
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    Base Vibe $16,900 Vibe GT $19,900 Vibe AWD $20,100 (all prices include $560 destination charge)
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    "http://media.gm.com" click on the Vibe picture on the right margin, and get info, including about 40 pictures.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Thanks for the link! I noticed the competitors are listed as Ford Focus, Chrysler PT Cruiser, Volkswagen Golf, Mazda Protege 5, Toyota Matrix.
    No mention of Subaru Impreza. Been thinking about the Vibe and now that I see the pricing I think I am leaning toward the Impreza Wagon TS with 165 HP and AWD standard for less than $18K. If I have to spend $20,100 for Vibe AWD then I think I might step up to Impreza WRX with 227 HP for $24K. Don't think most people are even aware of the Impreza so it will not really compete with the Pontiac.
    What does everyone else think of the pricing?
  • leafguy2727leafguy2727 Member Posts: 83
    Does anyone have an idea yet if there is detailed pricing? ie base = $16,900, how much is abs? how much is Auto? etc etc.

    p.s. seeing as these are U.S. prices I can't comment other then the GT looks way too expensive!!!!, but how do the prices compare to competition?

    p.s.s. did you see that GT take high octane???
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    When Pontiac priced the Vibe I suspect the benchmark for comparision was the PT Cruiser. Base PT Cruiser is $16,800 and Limited is $20,830. The PT Cruiser is overpriced and sells quite well and I predict the Vibe will be sold out it's first year like the Cruiser was.
  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    Can't believe they priced the 123 hp awd more than the 180 hp GT model......sould've been 130HP FWD, 123 hp AWD, 180hp FWD in that order.
  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    no wonder they didn't include an impreza ts wagon in the vibe's competition....it blows the vibe away:
    impreza hp:165, vibe AWD 123
    impreza cargo room:24/62 cu.ft., vibe 24.6/57.2
    impreza price:22,995 cdn incl. auto, air, power everything
    vibe awd:20,100 US converted at 1.35 (not currency rate but auto prices are generally converted at 1.35 to 1.45 depending on model)
    equals 27,135 cdn. (more than the CRV LX AWD even)
  • odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    I agree with Artdecho's pricing strategy with the 180hp FWD being the top of the line, even though they are only $200 apart.

    My estimated prices in $Cdn are:
    Base Vibe:C$22,700
    Vibe AWD: C$26,750
    Vibe GT: C$27,000

    As a general rule of thumb, you can estimate Canadian pricing by deducting 15% off of the price based on pure exchange rates.

    As Artdecho points out, the Imprezza offers more for the money, but there are all sorts of price/content/value anomolies in the auto market. On paper, the Forester looks better than the CR-V, which has always outsold it.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    It will be interesting to see how flexible the pricing will be a few months after release. If I could get a base Vibe with auto/air/cruise/CD for about $22K including destination, I may be interested. I still have to drive it and see how it feels. It's very different from what I have driven in the past (straight cars and trucks).
  • TupTup Member Posts: 200
    I wonder if the options will be the same in Canada. Often cars which come standard with A/C in the US have optional A/C in Canada.

    The Matrix in Canada doesn't come standard with A/C. The base Matrix is fairly stripped...no Pmirrors; Pwindows; Pdoors or AC. The "B" option gives you AC, Pdoors, Alloy wheels, and Keyless entry.

    Since we have a Subaru Forester for our all wheel drive needs, we want a more fuel efficient vehicle (my wife has a long commute). So we have a base Matrix (B option pack) on order.

    As others have pointed out, the Impreza TS is a real bargain in comparison. Since the put the 2.5L engine it it...it has become a real steal. It's looks are a little dowdy but when compared to a Matrix/Vibe AWD vehicle....you could get used to it.

    With the Vibe AWD being around the same price as more powerful vehicles....Escape, Rav4, CRV, Forester etc ..makes one wonder. With the 123 HP paired with Automatic and AWD....it's going to be a SLOWWWWWWW vehicle!!!

    Magazine comparisons with an Impreza will be interesting when looking at AWD.

    Toyota doesn't expect to sell many AWD's Matrix's in Canada. The dealer showed me Toyota's estimates. 50% of all Matrix sales are estimated to be for the Base with the "B" option package (what we ordered); 30% for the Matrix XR; 5% for the Base Matrix (no options); 1% for base Matrix AWD; 4% for base Matrix AWD "B" option package; 5% for Matrix XR AWD; 5% fpr Matrix XRS.

    So they expect AWD models to account for only 10% of all Matrix sales.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    The A/C option really depends on the brand. GM generally keep A/C standard if it is in the U.S. and generally add traction control where as it's usually optional in the U.S. That said, if Toyota is going optional, perhaps Pontiac will also.

    AWD option is really a bit expensive on car like this. I'm not surprised they are estimating only 10% with that config.
  • vonnyvoncevonnyvonce Member Posts: 129
    Saw the Canadian review and explanation about V/M AWD being front wheel until slip like the Vue. Thought it was going to be 50/50 viscous coupling then changing as need be. What's the real story, anyone.
  • TupTup Member Posts: 200
    No, it's front wheel drive until it detects wheel spin then it directs power to the rear to a max of 50:50.
  • orangelebaronorangelebaron Member Posts: 435
    I saw a new Vibe on The Expressway today.
    It was painted a chameleon paint that changed from orange to green to blue. A blonde woman wearing a silver outfit was driving it. There was a logo that said Vibe 2.5 turbo 4WD.
  • TupTup Member Posts: 200
    2.5 Turbo?!?!

    What's up with that? Some experimental pre-production vehicle? I never heard of a 2.5L turbo from GM or Toyota. Anyone?
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Perhaps it's something they are working on for next year. No word of a turbo that I have seen anywhere. Cool idea though!
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    quote orangelebaron-I saw a new Vibe on The Expressway today.
    It was painted a chameleon paint that changed from orange to green to blue. A blonde woman wearing a silver outfit was driving it. There was a logo that said Vibe 2.5 turbo 4WD.-end

    ROFLMAO! No you did not. Either you are making this up to stir up the topic or you are delusional. A vibe would be AWD not 4WD, Subaru is using 2.5 and turbo (not on 2.5) not Pontiac/Toyota, and a test car would not be painted a color changing paint. Are you sure ET was not the passenger?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Production Volume: 1997 1998 1999 2000
    Corolla 149,041 158,180 160,759 147,739
    Tacoma 147,930 158,323 156,395 146,354
    Geo Prizm *60,838 *45,291 *49,967 *50,019
    Total Vehicles 296,971 316,503 317,154 294,093

    Will the Corolla still be produced at NUMMI? The Matrix will be assembled in Canada. Ending the Prizm will only make available capacity for 75,000 or less cars. Sure do hope there will be more than 75K Vibe produced.
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    Can not quickly find where I saw it, but I recall that production capacity is around 55,000. About 10% AWD, 15% GT and 75% base.
  • orangelebaronorangelebaron Member Posts: 435
    ET was NOT the passenger!
    C3PO was.
    At least my post was more interesting than these constant threads of whether the Focus has 1/64 of an inch more headroom than the P5 or what order the pricing strategy should be in.
    HA HA HA.... I knew I should have put AWD instead of 4WD after I signed off!
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