Mazda MPV

bottgers · February 2003

They won't give you $5500 off a 2002 model AND give you S-Plan pricing. If you use the S-Plan, they will go $2500 off on the 02's, and $2000 off on the 03's. Still not a bad deal.

lyndamarie · February 2003

Answer to how much we paid for a
2003 ES w/
roof rack
6 cd player
4 seasons package
rear step plate
GFX package
Fog light
24,200 after the $2K rebate
without sales tax (that's variable depending on community)

It seemed that the five dealers I contacted via the internet were all selling about $100 or so over invoice, so it's up to you to decide what you want and what you don't want. We got a few extra things that I really did'nt care about, but I'm not going to spend a lot of time trying to find the "perfect" vehicle. We were happy with what we got and how fast we got it. But we are very happy with the van so far....

njdad · February 2003

I recently bought a 2003 MPV LX. The users manual lists the first (and subsequent) oil change at 7500 miles. I've always changed the oil on previous vehicles every 3000-4000 miles. What is everyone else planning on doing - changing every 7500 or change more frequently???

Thanks in advance for any advice.

stever · February 2003

Excellent question. I used to read the Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2 discussion a lot. People got tired of me asking what the basis was for the 3,000 mile number - as near as I can tell, it was picked out of the air by some guy running the US Army's motor pools :-)

I change my van's oil every 7,500 miles as recommended in my manual for normal service. Using dead dino too. ymmv :-)

Steve, Host

bottgers · February 2003

......you go to the thread steve_HOST posted in his last post. I would strongly recommend NOT going 7500 miles on non synthetic oil. There you have it. Two posts, two totally different opinions. READ THE THREAD!

tccmn1 · February 2003

It sounds like it's up to the individual's preference and oil type. I generally have used "dino" oils and changed every 3-4K miles on all my vehicles going back over 20 year's time; Chevy's (2.8), DC's(3.3), Toys (v6 and 4's) and I keep my vehicles for 8+ years and usually 150K miles on them. I think it's cheap insurance to keep the motor clean and well lubricated. My engines have always been good runners and smooth and quiet for their lives. It's the rest of the car that has needed work; electical, ac, tranny's, hardware, rust, etc.;-)

PS: I viewed my beautiful LX today at the dealer and drolled on it:) I wanted to take it right home, but decided for them to keep it and put the special brushed dash applique and bugshield on it to save me another trip back and forth.
Heck I waited 4 months for this gem, what's another 4 days!

Will be truly ready for my drive home with it mid next week. I played with the 6cd/cass. stereo and loved the sound. This baby should keep a smile on me and my wife's face for many years. They also gave me the extra $500 rebate on top of the $1500 that was given at order time back in Oct.. Out the door price was $27,000.
LX = Moonroof, Compass/Temp Mirror, 4 Seasons, Trailer hitch, GFX, Fogs, Pwr Sliders, 6CD+Cass and 8 speakers, Traction Control-side bags, Step Plate, Mazda Bug Shield, ES Dash insert, Roof Rack...everything but Leather and 17"wheels.

The GFX flairs look different on the latest 03's than the 02's did. There is no 'fake' chrome strips on the front and rear flairs now. Just color-matched pattern. No big deal since the fake chrome would chip and take a beating at that low level in MN. salt anyway. They DO put the Chrome exhaust tip on them all now though.
The Mazda Trailer hitch looks nice too.
Zoom-Zoom-Zoom.

bottgers · February 2003

There are many variables when it comes to oil that need to be considered when determining oil change intervals, and I've never seen and owners manual address any of them. Are you using a dino or a syn? Do you really know the difference? I believe you can use any type of oil (even the cheapest) if you change it every 3K miles and never have an oil related problem. However, I would not run just any ol' oil for 7500 miles as many manuals suggest. Plain ol' dino just can't handle that many miles without breaking down. For extended drain intervals (I call anything more than 3K miles extended), you'll need something better. There are some oils available which are not called synthectic, but they are produced using a "hydrocracked" method. These oils are superior to regular ol' dino, in fact many consider them as a synthetic. The great thing about them is that they're priced like a dino. A couple of the hydrocracked oils I know of are the Chevron SL, and the Havoline SL (the one distributed by Texaco, not Equillion). There may be others, but I don't know who makes them. I use the Chevron. These oils are good for extended intervals of up to 5K-6K, depending your type of driving and how hard your engine is on oil. If you really want ot leave your oil in for 7500 or more, you need to go to a full syn like Mobil 1, or Redline, or Amzoil. Now you run into issues of whether or not the filters are good for this long. I won't go into filters 'cause that's a whole different subject.

stever · February 2003

bottgers, I'd love it if you or anyone could point me to a definitive (or even not so definitive) link with some scientific basis that plain old motor oil should be changed as frequently as every 3,000 miles under "normal" conditions.

A link to one of Javadoc's "Iffylube" places won't suffice ;-)

I've even tried to find a petroleum engineer to weigh in on this issue, without any success to date. Bobtheoilguy is nice enough, but anyone with the membership fee can join his oil specialist group.

My van is at 79,000 miles with 7,500 mile oil changes, and so far so good. I'll let you know if I don't get to my hoped for 150,000 miles without an engine rebuild.

Steve, Host

bottgers · February 2003

.......finding any scientific based info on motor oil. The closest I've found is in Bob the oil guy, and here in Edmunds. From the info I've gathered from these two forums, I wouldn't want to use my vehicle as the guinea pig to find out if plain ol' dino is good for 7500 mile intervals.

stever · February 2003

I'm game :-)

Steve, Host

meinrad · February 2003

My last 2 cars have been changed on the 7500 interval and were and are still running strong at over 120,000 miles. I really do not believe in the 3000 mile deal. My conditions would be considered severe also due to many short, stop and go, trips. So on my 1 year old P5 I've been following the 5000 miles severe conditions without reservation.

meinrad · February 2003

My wife and I took a good hard look at the MPV this weekend at the Pittsburgh Auto Show. While I really like the van and understand it's one of the smaller vans (the main reason I like it), we were extremely disappointed in the leg room for the 2nd row of seats.

We got in the front, adjusted the seats to our comfort then moved to the 2nd row. Moved them back as far as they would go and there just wasn't much room. In fact, we were both more comfortable in the 3rd row seats.

I just wish they would have had a few more inches of travel, even if it was just with the 3rd row folded.

We want the van just for the occasional 3rd row of seating, therefore that seat will be folded 90% of the time. But it concerns us that the 2nd row passengers won't have the legroom we'd like.

So it's still on the list, but now other things are creeping in. Neither one of us wants a bigger van, so we're starting to decide whether the 3rd seat is that important.

This big snowstorm hasn't helped matters either, since my wife is very concerned about her next cars snow ablilty. She's really starting to think small SUV now. Won't have the cargo capacity of the van, but will have 4 wheel drive and good legroom, at least in a few we checked out.

scanner · February 2003

Meinrad,

The 2nd row seat are made for kids. :-)

scanner · February 2003

I vote for every 4 months, regardless of mileage.

CR once did a test on oil changing intervals using NYC taxi cabs and found no wear differences.

scanner · February 2003

Tccmn1,

Congrats on the new mini.

tccmn1 · February 2003

I understand the concern with the leg space on the MPV second row...but if you look at other SUV's like a Toy HL that has NO THIRD SEAT, the legroom is not THAT much more, if at all...and you're paying for the SUV title. Frankly, I'm paying $4.5K less for this loaded LX than I would have for a Toy HL Non-LTD and I'm getting much more bells and whistles; heated mirrors, compass, temp, lower entry rear, fog lights, 6cd in dash changer, etc.
I know cause I had an HL on order last summer but cancelled when I lost my job at that time.

I've lived with a DC shorty (second row tight) for 9 years and the MPV actually has more legroom in the second row than my old DC did.
It's all up to what you want of course; small SUV's may not handle THAT much better in snow anyway. I never have been stuck in snow in MN. with 13 years of mini-driving!

meinrad · February 2003

There is no doubt you get a lot for the money. Which is what started us in the MPV direction in the first place. Why pay so much for an SUV with a joke 3rd row seat when the van gives you more for less money.

And I'm not kidding myself in thinking a small SUV will pull the same duty. Changing direction means changing priorities. We may decide other factors are more important than total cargo volume and 3 rows of seats.

The price/features will keep the MPV on the short list, but just not as far out in front in would have been.

It's going to be an interesting shopping season.....

scanner · February 2003

Steve_ HOST,

Make sure to cross reference this stuff in SUVs vs. Minivans too. ;-)

Meinrad & Tccmn1,

I couldn't agree with the two of you more, that's why I own both a MPV and a Highlander. ;-)

stever · February 2003

Thus you agree that you got more bang for your buck with the MPV, right?

Steve, Host

scanner · February 2003

Yes, I can agree with that.

But let me add a true story: I get into my MPV with 4 other passengers, the 6'2' passenger riding in the passenger seat has to slide his seat all the back because his knees hit the dash. Now the second row passenger is complaining because of the lack of leg room. The sole 3rd row seat passenger is complaining also, but it's difficult to hear them because they're way back in the cheap seat.

Solution: we all get out of the MPV and get into the Highlander, and everyone is happier than the proverbial pigs in slop.

stever · February 2003

You have too many friends :-)

Steve, Host

javadoc · February 2003

Iffylube? I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about Steve!

That reminds me...it's time for an oil change in MochaVan! I actually switched to going by time instead of mileage b/c I only put about 8,000/yr on the van... so it's every 6mths for me for every K&N filter and 6qts of Amsoil!

maltb · February 2003

looks like the phone lines in anchorage thawed out long enough for the doc to make an appearance.

:-)

stever · February 2003

Those guys haven't had winter yet. You have to go all the way to Fairbanks to find a dogsled race this year.

Guess we should ask Java how Mocca is handling the heat....

Steve, Host

javadoc · February 2003

Malt, you know I don't need a phone line for the internet! ;-) And M.V. is handling the 'winter' just swimmingly!

bob57 · February 2003

Not the oil guy.. Hi Java! I'm in your boat. My new responsibilities have overwhelmed me at work and this "fun" site has gone be the wayside. Two offices and two buildings - eek!

Erl? (oil in Texas...). I change the Sienna oil around 3K just to make sure of all the heat from the past sludge topics (let's not go into that again) don't cause a problem. Why take a chance on that one anyway. Lots of short trips and idleing on the Toyo.
The '01 MPV (Red) soars at 70 MPH, 66 miles every day. I let it go until 70K on the last oil change and it still came out golden. Of course, makes me wonder where the dirt is....! Hmmm. Using the "Ferd" standard replacement filter and dino Castrol. Toyota changes it for me if I bring the filter - about $10 cheaper than Iffylube and anyone else I've found.
I'm nearing 39K and developed one problem - the ashtry is ...oh, I already mentioned that...sorry, Steve.

)
Fun van, sleeps with me ever night. Or is that my Golden...? Must get more rest...

poor_bill · February 2003

I've seen these air fiters being mentioned before within the MPV discussions. I have an '02 MPV and was wondering a few things about the K&N's:

- Do they improve gas mileage (if so, to what general extent)?
- Are they "plug and play" or do I need some adapter kit or some other modification for it to fit?
- Where's a good (read inexpensive) place to buy them, online or otherwise?

Thanks in advance,
Bill

stever · February 2003

I used to say K&N didn't claim any mpg increases (for their "normal" oiled air filter). Then someone said, oh yeah they do. And they did.

Then a month or so ago I visited their site and it looks like they don't again. Maybe the FTC asked for some proof?

If they do claim any improvement, I bet dollars to Krispy Kremes the weasel language says "up to x%". Your seat of the pants mileage may vary :-)

Steve, Host

javadoc · February 2003

I never have felt any improvement in 'seat-o-da-pants' or any drastic mpg increase when using a drop in K&N filter. I like the fact that it does a great job of filtering, as well as saving you money on buying paper-element filters all the time.

Now, cone (and cold-air intake) systems... those are another story, but I haven't tried that on my MPV yet. I do have a spare K&N cone filter from my Saab 9000 sitting on the workbench. I wonder...

tccmn1 · February 2003

Just an FYI; I guess Mazda decided to delete the Chrome strip trim on the GFX package due to it peeling or chipping off. You'll notice the pic in the 2003 brochure HAS the chrome strip on the black MPV in that picture. But my dealer informed me that those brochures use 2002 MPV's due to timing and same basic vehicle, etc. So if you see mine or others around without the chrome dress, you'll know it's a very late model.
I really have no opionion since I was thinking that may be a problem..at least in the MN. harsh climate....come to think of it though, the east coast has had much more snow than we have here this year, eh? (21" in the Twin Cities all winter so far).

bottgers · February 2003

The general consensus is they don't filter as well as OEM filters. They flow better, but also allow more crap into your engine. I tend to agree with this theory.

The only way to find out if they improve mileage would be to test several different vehicles, in a controlled environment, using indentical methods for each vehicle.

The only advantage K&N filters offer for sure is never having to replace your filter again. No thanks. I'll use OEM and go with better filtering.

mpvowner3 · February 2003

hey tccmn1,
I got the GFX package with my 03 MPV. My dealer did not tell anything abt peeling / stripping of the chrome strip. Is there any concern with this chrome strip?
mpvowner3

javadoc · February 2003

Acutally, I said, they do a great job of filtering, not filter better. I agree that the chief benefit of a drop in K&N filter is not having to buy another filter again... well for like a million miles anyway. You've gotta watch out when you re-oil the filters though, b/c some mechanics blame premature MAF failure on over-oiled filters.

bottgers · February 2003

I knew about the ES and LX models, but what's a DX model?

backy · February 2003

You mean a new '03 MPV DX or an older one? When the MPVs first came out there was a DX trim line, which is the low-end line with few frills. Just like they have the Protege DX, LX, ES. They dropped the DX after the 2001 model year.

tccmn1 · February 2003

That was the word that was told me by the manager at the dealer here in MN. where I bought her. I had been wondering about it myself before I got the unit - thinking how low to the ground that is and it is only a plastic type of 'chrome' strip anyway. It could discolor or pit I suppose and takes a lot of rock hits down there. Anyway, they're coming through now with only a solid color with the outline of the pattern visible where the strip would have been. Looks cheaper to me....of course the GFX package USE TO COST $1250 when it was first put out...I heard. Now it's only a $350 option. The story I first heard was they lowered the price on it because no one wanted it...now I see why they lowered the price..it's without the added chrome piece. Mine has a 12/02 Mfg. Date on it btw. I think someone asked that a while back.

That's all I know....TCC

bottgers · February 2003

......who claims to have '03 DX models on the lot. Could he have these confused with LX models?

rutger3 · February 2003

I agree with scanner. Mazda definitely should put more leg and especially knee room in the front passenger side. The problem is the world's largest dashboard which really needs to be changed. Then push the second and third row seats back,better yet, put them both on a movable track. Also, put a center headrest in the third seat. And split the third seat to be more versatile. I like the Highlander too,but it is an SUV and overpriced, needs to get better mileage.

tomj5 · February 2003

I am on the edge of ordering an LX MPV. Price is good loaded at 21K. Then I learned that Duratec is built by Ford. Worse, that this engine is the same as the Horror van, the Windstar!!!! Any guidence would be very WELCOME!!!!

scanner · February 2003

Rutger3,

Putting the second and third row seats on a movable track is what I always thought was the best idea that allows the most versatility. The seats in the Villager/Quest are made that way, but they usually rank at the bottom in reviews.

I'm not trying to turn this into a MPV vs. HL debate, but I think the HL is more comparable to the MPV than most minivans. Also, my HL and MPV get the same gas mileage (both V6s).

scanner · February 2003

Tomj5,

Just kidding. True, the MPV has a Ford engine, but its not the same one in the Windstar.

tomj5 · February 2003

Thanks Scanner, I have noticed that there are not many issues regarding the MPV engine other than the Moose and sulfur effects. Hopfully that will be corrected when I get my MPV in April. I really fell in love with the MPV. I like the column shift, gives more room for my coffee pot. I looked at the Mitsy Outback (great engines) but it was too small. I will go ahead and order the MPV. Unless you can think of a good reason not to.
I need a van to haul my RC planes around and small camp trailer. Kids are long gone (Yesss!!!)(I miss'em. One is a Battalion commander in the Gulf.)

big_guy · February 2003

You mean the Mitsy Outlander don't you? The Outback is a Subaru.

The MPV has all the bells and whistles we were looking for and I really like the smaller size and the handling.

tomj5 · February 2003

Yup, I mean the Outlander. Good car but small and you have to get the moon roof if you want some good options. No thanks hate moon roofs, not good in the Arizona sun. So I am going to order the MPV. Coastal Blue with the 4 seasons pack, hitch, auto rv mirror can'be found out here so you have to order it. When I saw Ford associated with the engine, I had a panic attack, but everyone says that the 3.0 ia a good engine and not to worry.
Thanks

audia8q · February 2003

I don't know if this has been covered yet....sorry if it has..

Mazda has announced a new model MPV that is available for april production. It's called the MPV-SV which stands for 'special version' it is a price leader model....There are a few items that are deleted from the LX model. They are the privacy glass is changed to a lighter green tint, steel wheels replace the alloys, 15'' tires, 100watt am-fm stereo, no CD, delete bright tip exhaust, delete floor mats and bodyside moldings.....but you still get all the other standard MPV features....only available option is rear a/c and some port installed features.

base price $21,375 + destination $520

for comparison purposes the LX has a base price of $22,690 + destination

maltb · February 2003

:-(

rutger3 · February 2003

I have an 01 LX with the 'huge' 2.5 liter engine. No problems after 28,000 miles. Why did I not wait until the 3.0 liter was put in? The 2.5 is noisy and the tranny is not very smooth,but all else about the van is nice and dependable. Mazda should have never put this engine in the MPV.

alexv1n · February 2003

I don't know about you but the way I look at it is this. I've had the 00 MPV for close to 3 years now. If I had waited for 02 to arrive, I'd not have gone to some beautiful road trips in the mountains and the east coast. My family and I were able to visit tons of places in comfort and were never stranded or inconvenienced.

Granted, I'd almost readily switched my 2000 with 2.5L and 4 speed tranny for 02/03 with 3.0L and 5 spd if I could just replace one for another, but I did test drove 02 MPV and it doesn't feel that much different. Yes, I can notice the somewhat faster pickup and smoother transmission and (most noticeably) less body roll while cornering but is it worth the money I'd loose if I'm to trade now? No. Is it worth those precious two years we had spent? No again (well, we don't have any other car, so it's either MPV or something else, we just couldn't wait a year or two more).

I guess it boils down to words from a pop song "it's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got"...

You buy 02 MPV and now you start biting your elbows over the new and cool Sienna. If you buy Sienna, you might regret it when the new MPV will come out in '05 or something. It's never ending story. You just need to jump in at some point and enjoy it while it lasts...

My (very humble) $0.02

stever · February 2003

Just like buying computers; the latest and greatest comes out the month (or week) after you get one (and another the month after). May as well just bite the bullet and enjoy the ride.

Steve, Host

audia8q · February 2003

That's what I was thinking...but it's sure is aimed at the low end caravan buyer....This is the one market that we have not been able to hit real hard. This will do it.

Rich

Mazda MPV

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