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Hyundai Elantra 5-door

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Comments

  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,691
    the difference of 5 horsepower is nowhere enough to make one car "lowly" and another car "sporty". That is about 3.5% - so little that other factors like gearing and vehicle weight would make much more of a difference than the overall power.

    OTOH, you are right that if HYundai is making these reparations to owners of cars with inflated numbers, they should do it across the board for all models that were affected.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,722
    johhu - We're not talking about 10-20 hp here, it's more like 5. Even with an actual hp rating of 135, the Elantra tops almost all cars in its class, including Civic EX, Corolla S, Protege ES and Pro 5, Lancer ES, Focus ZT-5, and Sentra GXE. Still a great deal for the money. The closest thing to it for the money is the Aerio, at 141 (published) hp. (And that is an interesting number, come to think of it... one more than the former rating for the Elantra. Just a coincidence, I guess.)

    lokanna - At 135 hp the Elantra GT still tops all 5-door hatchbacks in its price class, with the exception of the Aerio (which may not have been available when you looked 6 months ago). Looking outside of the 5-door hatches, the Elantra wasn't even close to being at the top of the hp heap in hp 6 months ago. The Cavalier "sport" had 150 hp, so it topped the Elantra even before its published hp was lowered. (Assuming the Cav's hp numbers are accurate... I guess we really don't know, do we?) So why didn't you buy a Cavalier? Maybe because the Elantra was a much better car overall than the Cavalier? And the Neon ACT and R/T had 150 hp too; why not buy a Neon? The Sentra SE-R has 165 hp (it was higher before Nissan republished the hp rating--seems they overestimated it at first). Why didn't you buy a Sentra SE-R? Maybe because it cost thousands more than an Elantra?
  • desgdesg Posts: 52
    I've been watching the HP posts with some amusement.

    Quite frankly the number is pretty meaningless at the best of times and under what conditions was it measured in any case. More important is how the car feels to drive, how it performs, power to weight ratio has more meaning that just a HP number if you want to get into numbers, the torque figure is more relevant than just HP.

    It sounds to me that a lot of people see this as a way to get something for nothing, that to me is rather a sad reflection on the way society is going. You bought a good car enjoy it.

    Personally I don't care what HP my car has so long as it goes well, and does what I need it to do. HP wasn't even a consideration when I bought my car, price, features, (real) performance, comparison to the opposition were.

    My 2 cents worth
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,722
    Just curious... what compensation would you expect from NBC if West Wing did start at 9:05 one week instead of 9:00?
  • I'd expect an apology and the same episode to be aired at the correct time. Now, that said, do I expect Hyundai to replace my motor with the advertised one? No, but something to say their sorry wouldn't hurt, would it?
  • Watch out, next we'll find out "Americas Best Warranty" does not cover everything we thing it does.
  • johhujohhu Posts: 17
    A mistake IS a mistake. And I don't feel comfortable with it, period .

    ‘2555’…It sounds to me that a lot of people see this as a way to get something for nothing, that to me is rather a sad reflection on the way society is going. You bought a good car enjoy it.

    Re: Do you think they are doing the these buyers a big favor? If horsepower thing is nothing ,they would not have offered the extended warranties stuff. Yet the offered extended warranties might not mean anything to me and most of the buyers. It’s not transferable, and I am not keeping the car for that long.

    Hyundai will also damage it's reputation in some of it’s potential buyers mind because of the horsepower issue if it can not make the simple stories straight. I found the following kind of fishy:


    'But power was a big deal inside the company, according to Rex Parker, product planner at HMA from 1996-2000 and now at marketing consultant AutoPacific. Hyundai initially used Mitsubishi engines, "and as a matter of corporate pride, Hyundai came up with horsepower numbers higher than Mitsubishi's," Parker says, even though the engines were alike.'

    Hyundai officials did not return phone calls requesting comment on Parker's allegations.

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2002-09-09-hynudai-horsepower_x.htm


    Model

    Published HP Actual HP Percent overstated

    1999-2000 Sonata 2.5 liter 170 163 4.3%

    1999 Accent 1.5 liter 92 88 4.5%

    2003 Tiburon 2.0 liter 140 134 4.5%

    2001-2002 Santa Fe 2.7 liter 181 173 4.6%

    1997 Elantra 1.8 liter 130 124 4.8%

    2001 XG300 3.0 liter 192 182 5.5%

    1997 Accent 1.5 liter DOHC 105 99 6.1%

    2002 Sonata 2.7 liter 181 170 6.5%

    2003 Tiburon 2.7 liter 181 170 6.5%

    1996 Accent 1.5 liter DOHC 105 98 7.1%

    2001-2002 Sonata 2.4 liter 149 138 8.0%

    2001-2002 Santa Fe 2.4 liter 149 138 8.0%

    1997-1998 Sonata 2.0 liter 137 125 9.6%

    Source: Hyundai

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/2002-09-10-horsepower.htm

    Model year

  • I totally disagree with DESG's comments. I still don't understand why some posters would not want to be compensated in some way. I know it's only 5HPs, but what if it was 10 or 15, would they think differently? As IOKANNA said its the "principle of it".

    BTW I still love my car, but I can't help but feel deceived and there's nothing really I could do at this point.
  • Agreed. It's not like we want something for nothing. We paid (or in my case at least, am paying) for this vehicle that I believe had a 140hp engine. So WHAT if it's 135 and I feel it's adequate, they SOLD me on 140. I don't try to make a claim that it was the only reason for buying the car, but it was a factor in my decision, and for Hyundai to not offer any type of remedy leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Like goby said about, I still love my car, but I feel let down and constraind, and it's not a feeling I enjoy and unfortunately will be something to consider when I look at purchasing a new vehicle. =(
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    I have to agree with Desg. A company has to draw the line somewhere or risk bleeding all sorts of money. Think about it. Hyundai already offers the longest warranty around, which puts them at risk of losing money to warranty repairs as sales continue to skyrocket. And now the issue of hp misrepresentation comes up. With a million cars being affected, it simply wouldn't make fiscal sense to offer everyone some sort of compensation. By deciding to not offer compensation to those who fall under a certain percentage, they are simply protecting their hides from a huge liability. I mean some people were even suggesting a rebate to all those affected, similar to what Mazda offered to Miata owners. What they don't realize is Mazda only had to cover their butts for a few thousand cars, not 1 million. Do you guys want to see Hyundai go bankrupt?? A lot of good an extended warranty would do you if Hyundai ends up like Daewoo. Hyundai is not large enough yet to handle such a large compensation package. Therefore, it makes sense to offer compensation to only those that have the largest discrepancy. A 5 hp difference is pretty meaningless, but 10-12 hp is a lot more noticeable. At any rate, compensation is usually required when there is a safety hazard or some sort of serious malfunction. Neither of which is the case here. The car is still the same car and performs exactly the same.

    Desg hit it right on the nose. The people of the US feel they are automatically entitled to some form of compensation the second they are wronged. Everyone always wants something for nothing. It's really quite disgusting. No wonder why we live in the land of lawsuits. Some people are just going way overboard about this whole warranty extension thing. You know darn well they simply want the security of knowing their car will be covered under warranty even longer.

    p.s. Here's a thought: Ever notice how dealer's cover their butts in newspaper ads by stating that they are not responsible for misprints? You don't expect to hold the dealer responsible for the newspaper's misprint so why do you think Hyundai should be responsible for a miscalculation by someone in engineering or whoever made the mistake? It's the same basic principle. Both are in business to make money, not give it away.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,691
    it would have to be an hp discrepancy of more than 10% to be worth compensation, since this is the threshold where it might actually be noticeable.

    THE ONLY EXCEPTION should be for cars marketed as sports cars or coupes, in which case I think hp measure is a much more important part of the sales package. So maybe you could make a case for Tiburon owners being compensated similar to the way the Cobra and Miata owners were.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    Put it this way....If a company paid off every customer for every little mistake they made, where would that company be? Bankrupt! Often times you only get an apology for small mistakes and you accept it. Why is this any different? The fact that Hyundai even came clean publicly is commendable to me and improves my respect for the company. Like I said in another forum, Hyundai could have simply lied and quietly lowered horsepower for all their engines this year, claiming tighter emission regulations. This has been used many times before and the public would have thought nothing of it and Hyundai wouldn't have had to pay out any money. There would have been little chance of anyone taking the older cars to a dyno to check horsepower so their tracks would have been covered. Putting all this into perspective makes their decision seem quite fair and financially sound to me. The rest of you are just looking for a reason to complain. It all goes back to that school age mentality: "Hey, he's got better .... than I do. It's not fair! I should have the same thing."
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,722
    Lokanna, it looks to me like HMA took the kind of actions you would expect of NBC: they apologized publically (their President apologized, actually--I don't think I'll ever see the President of NBC holding a press conference to apologize for putting a show on 5 minutes late). And then they republished the hp ratings of their cars to where they should have been all along. (Realize that running a show again, at the right time, is no big deal for NBC, since they do it all the time--it's called "summer reruns".) Plus they offered extra compensation to owners who had the biggest hp discrepancies. (Kind of like NBC offering two episodes of West Wing on the same night, I guess.)

    If it were a 15 hp difference on a 140 hp car, yes, I would feel differently and look to Hyundai for some sort of compensation. But that's a moot point, because if the discrepancy were 15 hp, I would have qualified for compensation under Hyundai's plan. And their extended warranty offer would be good enough for me.

    Personally I don't really understand all this uproar about misstated horsepower ratings on Elantras et. al., when HMA has IMO made a much bigger mistake that almost everyone is ignoring. Hyundai has fixed the problem with the driver's seat mounts that caused the driver's seat to move forward too far in the IIHS offset crash test, contributing to the Elantra's "Poor" ranking in that test. But they have fixed the problem only on Elantras sold in Korea--not in North America. And they have not recalled the Elantras with the defective seat mounts. This is not a matter of a few lost horsepower--horsepower we never had to begin with. This is a safety issue. Why aren't more Elantra owners up in arms about this issue? Why haven't they written to HMA about it, as I have done (to Finnbar O'Neil, President of HMA)? In addition, why haven't owners demanded that HMA take action to remedy the air bag deployment problem that also contributed to the poor offset crash test results? Yes, I know Hyundai claims there was no problem with the air bags, it's the same sensors as used in the Sonata and they worked just fine in the tests etc. etc. Sorry, HMA--the air bag deployed late 2 out of 3 times in the IIHS tests--not good odds from where I stand--or sit, actually.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    You are using analogies that involve money. Sure, I wouldn't want to lose money due to lies or mistakes. This situation doesn't involve taking money out of your pocket. It's not the same. It's a power rating, nothing more. What about when the Big Three overstated their horsepower figures for years? Do you think my dad's 66 Fairlane GT really makes the advertised 320 horses? Hardly! It makes roughly 280 or so. Was he compensated? No! He was theoretically lied to was he not? He doesn't feel like he should be compensated, so why are you any different? Stores promise things all the time, but often don't follow through on them and do nothing for the customer in compensation. An apology is often enough, so what makes this any different? Obviously, you can't look at this in a business sense. I guess you honestly don't care whether Hyundai goes under or not, since you feel every single person should be compensated which would almost surely cause financial problems.

    As for my ad analogy, think about it further. In the USA Today article it stated that Korean engineers failed to tell US marketing about the discrepancy in power ratings due to our higher emission regs. So now HMA is being held responsible for a mistake done by the parent company in general and the engineers in particular. It was a miscommunication done by HUMAN BEINGS who are capable of making mistakes. Keep that in mind. Mistakes happen and in the real world you aren't always compensated for them.
  • There seems to be way too much brand loyalty here... I don't think Hyundai would have come forward with their "mistake" if the Canadian Gov. had not questioned the accuracy of their numbers. It's been going on for 10 years!!

    I understand the impact of a company having to compensate that many people. At this point I don't care any more whether or not I get compensated. I deeply believe Hyundai has hurt it's own reputation with many of its current and future customers.

    FYI for US owners, Hyundai Canada only offers 3yr/60km (38 miles) warranty as a standard. (Like every one else except for Kia -5/100km) So an extra year would have been nice.
  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    because the tone was not appropriate for our Town Hall discussions. In addition, for the sake of continuity, messages in direct response to these posts were also deleted.


    In accordance with our Town Hall Membership Agreement, let's please use civil/friendly debate when discussing our differences of opinion. Please note: hostile remarks, and name calling of any kind, are subject to automatic deletion. Also, I think it's time we get back to focusing more specifically on the subject of the Elantra GT. Okay?

    Feel free to send me an email if you have any questions. Thanks for your participation!

    Revka

    Host

    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards

  • The Hyundai company has enough money to extend 1 year warranty on all vehicles, so don't take that into the consideration of why the should not do it.
  • I noticed that the 03Tiburon was included in the overstatement being 4.5% overstated from 140 to 134. The Elantra GT went from 140 to 135. Since both cars use the same engine (I think)how is it that the Tib has lower HP than the Elantra GT? Looks like if they had moved the Elantra HP to 134 it would also be included. I assume that Hyundai sold more Elantra than Tiburons, therefore limiting the number of eligible cars. So for 1/2 of a percent (3.5 differential) Hyundai is hiding behind some industry loophole that claims that there is a acceptable fudge factor range when reporting HP.
  • tmanttmant Posts: 70
    Just wanted to say that as a prospective Elantra owner, The 135 HP is somewhat disappointing. I have been excited about getting this card and comparing it with other brands. Truthfully, I am very impressed at what the Elantra offers for its price.

    The 125HP from the Civic doesn't seem all that bad now, especially with the 31/40 gas mileage!

    Anyways, I think its a toss up for me between the Civix EX (mainly its reliability reputation) and the Elantra GT (its just a cool car!!) for me. Now I have to figure out if I like the sedan version or not.
  • I think everybody's opinions for this topic are worth considering. I purchased mine 10 months ago and I am more than very satisfied. I bougth my GT following test drives and feature review for the P5, Focus station wagon, and the GT, based on roominess (3 kids), features, performance and value. The Elantra GT won hands down and the 5 hp difference would not have made a difference then, and would not today if I were to make a new purchase. However, if you search the web for Elantra GT reviews, or go to wmoses' excellent site and look at the review list, you will find the many, if not most, of the reviewers describe the 140 hp engine as the most powerfull of it's category. Although this should not be a definitive reason for purchasing a vehicule, it is a very powerful selling argument which should not be used in a fraudulent manner. Many people will be biased in buying a car if certain features are overly displayed and the horsepower rating definitly is one of these features. I know that if you compare 2 products and the results of your personal tests are similar, the printed numbers will probably sway your decision in favor of the one with better numbers. So even if the 5 hp loss is insignificant in real life, the selling influence is. This is why Hyundai should come clean and compensate every buyer for their mistake, their sales figure surely was better than if the real figure was published.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,722
    Whether the Elantra GT has 135 hp or 140, it still tops the Civic EX (127). And of course the GT's equipment tops the Civics also, for thousands less. And you get stuff on the GT that is not available from the factory on a Civic EX at any price, including leather interior, sport-tuned suspension, 4-wheel disc brakes, a hatchback, and alloys. Reliability-wise, it may be closer than you imagine. Check out the April 2002 CR Auto Issue, and compare the predicted reliability rating of the '01 Civic with the '01 Elantra, and you'll see the Civic was only Average (very low for a Honda) while the Elantra was just a bit below average. Not a huge difference there. Of course, Honda's overall reputation for reliability is still greater than Hyundai's.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,722
    Point taken, but at 140 hp, the Elantra GT was second in its category, to the Aerio (141). At 135 hp, the GT is still second in its category. So I still am having trouble seeing a significant difference here, even from a "selling influence" perspective. I personally would love it if Hyundai would give all Elantra owners (myself included) some sort of compensation for this horsepower snafu, but I won't lose any sleep if all I get is their apology. Now, new seat brackets I want, and I want them now.
  • csandstecsandste Posts: 1,866
    Giving the Elantra 135 and the Tibby 134 does look a bit strange...

    The late deploying air bag is a much bigger concern for me.
  • ''the Elantra GT was second in its category, to the Aerio (141). At 135 hp, the GT is still second in its category'' At the time I purchased my Gt, along with many others buyers, the Aerio was not yet on the market, and the reviews for the 2001-2002 GT were also published before the availability of the Aerio and are still the only source of information since there has been few updated reviews since the GT has not changed in 2003. The main issue I have is if this erroneous information given by Hyundai permitted them to raise their sales, the victims should have a cut of their profits
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    Oddly enough, the 03 Aerio is now rated at 145 hp. There is no mention of what they did to increase the output by 4 horses.
  • Personally, I wouldn't care if the Aerio had 160 hp, it's still a mess. As for the Tib's horsepower rating, chances are good that the exhaust system differs from the Elantra enough to lower the hp by one. The same Ford or GM engine in a variety of their cars can and do differ by just a few horsepower.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    Victims?? Come on. No one held a gun to your head and made you buy the car. The car is no different than it was when you bought it! And I would assume that you had no problem with how it drove or you wouldn't have bought it. Once again, another person feeling they are obligated to money for nothing. Why don't we all just go on a rampage and force money out of every person that ever lied to us and profited from it? That's the impression you guys are giving me. But I see this debate is getting pointless because some people just don't want to hear that they shouldn't get money out of a mistake. It's their "right", or so they think. You guys are acting as if you bought some 50k BMW or Corvette. I could understand outrage with those cars because horsepower is a big selling point, but hp is far from important in the economy car segment. The people here must represent a small few, as even USA Today said that Hyundai's move was unprecedented in a business where coverup is the norm. In other words, they were impressed. They felt that this would INCREASE people's faith in the company. I would have to agree with them.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,722
    Let's forget the Aerio, John. The GT had the most horsepower in its class at the time you bought it. The Aerio wasn't available then. Now, without considering the Aerio, the GT still has the most horsepower in its class. I think what it boils down to is this: if at the time you bought your GT, the Elantra was rated at 135 hp, tops in its class, and everything else was the same, would you have still purchased the GT? If yes, then the hp difference was not material to your decision and I have trouble understanding why you believe you should be compensated. If no, then for you, the hp difference was material and I understand why you are upset.
  • For some of us, the 13-14k we spent on this car feels like 50k. While it may not be a lot of money for you, just starting a family and life with my fiance is taxing, and while she's in college, my income is all way have. No one is even suggesting we go on a rampage, we just think that if Hyundai is extending some compensation for some they should do it for the rest of us. And you're right, no one did force me to buy the car, but then again, if they did, I'd have to believe the car I was forced to buy was 140hp, not 135. It was a mistake, an unfortunate one, but a mistake none-the-less. Why not make good on it?
  • The GT still is an OK ride. It has alot of features, it is cheap (inexpensive). For those of us who like the "fastback" kind of hatchback, it's one of the few on the market. The 9-3 is the only other one that fits my idea of what a perfect car is. If you have a stick you can buy a blower kit with a relatively low-pressure boost that bolts on and requires no internal modifications and has reasonable reliability. Unfortunately, the automatic tranny won't work reliably with it. With this, you can run with the Saabs and have a really wide powerband. It will cost a few thousand to install yourself but still is far below the cost of a Saab, Audi, BMW. As it is, it is reasonably peppy. I still like it just as much knowing it may have only 135BHP. Isn't it nice that this 135 vs 140 hp thing is a big deal in our lives? In many parts of the world people are unhappy because they don't have food to eat, or their country is in ruins. When I look at the big picture, I am just happy that I have the car. I love my little hatchback. Someday when I have much more disposable income I'll buy something really cool.
    Until then, I'll be happy in my GT.
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