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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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Comments

  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    It says they "fail to comply with the requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 114, “Theft Protection.”

    Here's a link to the rule :

    http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rulesregs/fmcsr/regs/571.114.htm
  • pepper50pepper50 Member Posts: 195
    Remedy: Dealers will reprogram the instrument panel cluster.


    So how do they do that? What is the access route and how invasive a procedure is it? Thanks.
  • pepper50pepper50 Member Posts: 195
    I usually use the keyless entry to unlock my doors. I press it once to unlock the passenger doors, and I do have to press it twice to unlock the rear liftgate. I suspect this is because one only occasionally needs to unlock the rear liftgate, so why activate and cause wear on the locking mechanism each time one only needs to use the door. I don't remember if I have to press the armrest button twice to open it since I rarely use that method.
  • spdmtr5spdmtr5 Member Posts: 111
    as long as the override is hidden it meets the standard.I'll pass on that one
  • nuyorkahnuyorkah Member Posts: 100
    "Remedy: Dealers will reprogram the instrument panel cluster.

    So how do they do that? What is the access route and how invasive a procedure is it? Thanks."

    All they do is hook up whats called a Tech 2 to an access port underneath your dash and reprogram the IPC. Should take no more than 30 mins.
  • ficussficuss Member Posts: 541
    the tsb refers to a circumferential score. This sounds like a gouge that goes around the circumference of the brake line. This does not sound like a corrosion related failure. It sounds more like a manufacturing defect, like they started to cut the tubing with a tubing cutter only to realize they were cutting it too short. This created a weak point that could rupture under pressure. Corrosion wouldn't affect only the left front side brake line. I can't believe it wasn't caught by some inspector before the cars were shipped. It makes you wonder if the General fired the inspectors and is reading Edmunds to look for defects.
     Anyway, I like the spin they put on the consequences of brake line failure. If it happens you will have immediate increased brake pedal travel. Dah. Resulting in a crash if stopping distance is limited. double Dah.

    Frank
  • nuyorkahnuyorkah Member Posts: 100
    "What types of visors are available that don't slip into the window channel?"

    Ventvisors stick on the outside around the window with 3M tape. If you were to buy the ones from GM this is what you would be getting.
    http://www.autoventshade.com/HTML/VV.html

    "I have the WeatherTech ones that are kept in the channel with tension (no tape). They came with some clips that were supposed to be used on the tail end of the visors. I didn't install them and they say in fine."

    I did not see/get any clips for the ones for my 02 Envoy nor was there any mention of clips in the directions. The rear ones did have tape along the top to adhere inside the channel.
  • redline65redline65 Member Posts: 693
    The cargo area features a hard cover that can be used as a shelf, and is durable enough to support the weight of a medium dog.

    Yeah, that's just what I'm going to do. Stick my dog in the back window on top of the cargo shelf, LOL.
  • dekesterdekester Member Posts: 322
    Been reading the thread on this recall and had a thought....

    If you decline the repair and your vehicle gets stolen, will your insurance company decline to pay? It's rather easy to check the VIN with a manufacturer to see if all recall repairs have been made.

    Sounds like a nice feature, though....

    Just a thought.

    Deke
    (An unsatisfied Olds Intrigue owner who likes to commiserate with other GM sufferers!)
  • st1100v4st1100v4 Member Posts: 96
    "Ventvisors stick on the outside around the window with 3M tape."

    I have these - AutoVentShade brand - on a Ranger. On that application at least, they fit inside the window channel, but are held in the channel with tape rather than with tension.
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    "... IF THE BRAKE PIPE AT THE SCORING LOCATION CORRODED TO THE POINT THAT THE BRAKE PIPE WALL BECAME VERY THIN, ..."

    It says if the brake pipe CORRODED at the scoring location the wall can get thin and fail. That IS what it says. NEXT...
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    .. as long as the override is hidden it meets the standard.I'll pass on that one...

    The rule states "the device is covered by a non-transparent surface which, when installed, prevents sight of and activation of the device. The covering surface shall be removable only by use of a screwdriver or other tool." I think that's what got them. You don't need a tool to gain access to the release.

    I intend to keep mine as-is. Only question I have is, if you take it in for some other warranty work do they automatically check for recalls and do them when it's in the shop for some other repair?
  • kgbkahnkkgbkahnk Member Posts: 89
    "Only question I have is, if you take it in for some other warranty work do they automatically check for recalls and do them when it's in the shop for some other repair? "

    That's been my experience. When I had my TB for scheduled maintenance, they brought up the VIN # and found a recall notice (fuel line clip) and performed the update without even asking me. They informed me about it after the service was completed.

    I wonder: Are they required (by law, by GM, by anything?) to perform any necessary recall work?
  • spdmtr5spdmtr5 Member Posts: 111
    the human hand connected to a functioning brain is not considered a tool.Give us a break;there are more serious issues that can be addressed.Give me the money that this procedure will cost and I'll take my wife to dinner.
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    the human hand connected to a functioning brain is not considered a tool

    Not disagreeing, but it makes sense on a certain level. Anyone can use their hands to do something, but most people don't go around carrying wrenches and screwdrivers. You've deterred a certain amount of theft by requiring a tool or at least made the process take longer.

    Myself, I'm going to pass on the recall.
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    I guess I wouldn't care if they do something to secure it under a cover held with a screw or somesuch, as long as they provide an alternate method of unlocking the shifter just in case.

    Wonder why they never recalled all the millions of GM vehicles (my '86 IROC and '88 S-10 pick-up included) that all have plastic steering columns that, with only a screwdriver, can be busted into and driven off in a minute (or less)!
  • spdmtr5spdmtr5 Member Posts: 111
    a designer "hose clamp" at the base of the shifter?
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    "What is the access route and how invasive a procedure is it?"

    Looks like they access it thru the diagnostic connector under the dash same as reprogramming the PCM or BCM or reading any codes. They plug in the scan tool select what to reprogram and follow the instructions specific for that module. No disassembly required hopefully.

     spdmtr5 "a designer "hose clamp" at the base of the shifter?" I like that!!

    Sounds better than a couple of hundred dollars each for steel steering column sleeves I had to buy for my 80's GM vehicles so I could at least have some sense of security after having the IROC "hit" 6 weeks after I bought it. ( Add another $500 for that ins. deductable). Always thought GM should have paid for that. But the dealers were making a killing fixing steering columns and selling Steadfast Security collars. The potential thief shorted out the horn and got scared off in mid-rip-off. Didn't get the car but did lots of damage trying. That's how I found out how easy those 80's GMs were/are to steal.
  • jmaxxx34jmaxxx34 Member Posts: 1
    Thanks for reading my post.

    My wife and I are looking at mid-size SUV vehicles for their extra cargo capacity and the ability to carry our two dogs. We currently
    drive a Toyota RAV4, but its a little tight with all our camping gear and the two dogs. I'm looking for some info and advice on a couple
    things. First, I'd like some input on the handling/traction of the 2-wheel drive Trailblazer in snow or slick conditions. I'm concerned about fishtailing as my wife will be the main driver and we live in the wintry northeast. I'm not sure if I want to spend the extra $$$ to go for the 4-wheel drive. Also, Chevy offers traction control on the 2-wheel drive model for 2003. Does anyone have experience with that?? Does it prevent fishtailing?

    I am also concerned with "real-world" fuel economy (not those theoretical EPA figures). Please let me know what kind of average
    mpgs your getting and if you've got 4-wheel or 2-wheel drive.

    I appreciate any advice you all can offer. Hopefully, I'll be able to
    return the favor some day after we've made an intelligent decision on an SUV.

    J&S
  • ficussficuss Member Posts: 541
    tblazed, thank you for making my point. If there were no scoring there would be no recall, corrosion or not. The scoring weakened the brake line, and that is the issue.

    Frank
  • hillflahillfla Member Posts: 90
    I own a 2WD 2003 Envoy with the traction control and locking rear differential. I used it all winter long in snowy St Louis and I had no problems! It was great with the snow and ice and even going up hills a couple of times I passed pickup trucks that were spinning their wheels and my Envoy just kept on driving! I had the same thought as you - I did not want the expense or hassle of the 4WD. I think the traction control is a good compromise. My vehicle came with the locking diff as standard equipment as well - I think the catch there was I bought an SLE with the comfort group and that was included as part of it if you already had the traction control. I really recommend getting both the traction control and the locking rear because they perform different functions.

    Do you know how the traction control works? (I didn't know what it was when I bought my vehicle so please I am not trying to be condescending but I hope to inform you and others who read this). If the wheels start slipping, the traction control kicks in and it limits the power coming from your engine. I think it cuts the gas that you are providing via the pedal. It feels a little weird the first couple of times like your engine is dying but all it is doing is preventing you from revving your engine and slipping the wheels. Works real well. I never fishtailed or felt like the vehicle was going out of control. The only thing I noticed is that sometimes in deep snow it was a little harder to steer in a straight line but I never veered into traffic or anything like that. I always felt safe.

    As far as gas mileage, I do the pencil-paper method of calculating and in the cold winter I averaged 13-15 mpg and now that it is warmer I am getting around 16-19 mpg (depends on how much is hwy driving).

    Good luck and happy shopping!

    H
  • nuyorkahnuyorkah Member Posts: 100
    "I have these - AutoVentShade brand - on a Ranger. On that application at least, they fit inside the window channel, but are held in the channel with tape rather than with tension."

    I have no doubt it varies by application but for the triplets its outside mount.

    Envoy
    http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/gmgoodwrenchjsp/accessories/accessory- - - detail.jsp?gmaz&make=gmc&model=envoy&year=2003&de- - tail=side_window_deflectors&sid=8068937650798076

    Trailblazer
    http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/gmgoodwrenchjsp/accessories/accessory- detail.jsp?gmaz&make=chevrolet&model=trailblazer&year- - =2003&detail=side_window_deflectors&sid=8068937650798076
  • jr45jr45 Member Posts: 45
    Overall I am happy with my '03 Bravada. I have about 1750 mis on it now. I'm still sort of getting acquainted with the habits of the Bravada, but I have noticed that when I accelerate sharply from a stop, it seems to hesitate briefly when it shifts into 2nd. Almost seems like the engine is lugging. I read up the thread that some of you have had your triplets recalibrated with good results. I wonder if my Bravada can benefit from a PCM recalibration. I ran my vin on the calibration website and got the following:

    Calibration History for :OPERATING SYSTEM Part Number CVN Bulletin # Description
    12577956 N/A N/A operating system
    12579357 N/A N/A new software to improve generic scan tool operation
    -----------
    Calibration History for :ENGINE Part Number CVN Bulletin # Description
    12579051 0000BBD3 N/A engine
    12579364 000063ED N/A new calibration to improve generic scan tool operation
    ---------------------
    Calibration History for :TRANSMISSION Part Number CVN Bulletin # Description
    12579076 00008696 N/A transmission
    12580326 00008E4A N/A calibration change for tcc slip and / or dtc 1870
    -----------------------
    Calibration History for :SPEEDOMETER Part Number CVN Bulletin # Description
    12574173 00003C3C N/A speedometer
    12580495 0000BB51 N/A part number change only, same content as prior calibration
    -------------------------
    Calibration History for :SYSTEM Part Number CVN Bulletin # Description
    12579156 0000C25D N/A system
    12579377 0000256B N/A new calibration to improve generic scan tool operation
    --------------------------
    Calibration History for :Electronic Throttle Control Part Number CVN Bulletin # Description
    12573673 N/A N/A electronic throttle control
  • st1100v4st1100v4 Member Posts: 96
    "I have no doubt it varies by application but for the triplets its outside mount."

    Yep, from the pictures you can clearly see that they are mounted on the outside. And when I looked at mine (inside mount) today, I saw that the molding was sort of pushed out at the trailing edge of one of the front visors. Maybe outside is the way to go.
  • spdmtr5spdmtr5 Member Posts: 111
    please......The recall on the shifter is really out in left field.The government is stretching their power and if the General must comply;there must be a better fix than disabling a worthwhile feature.
  • smfransmfran Member Posts: 432
    Redline writes: "The cargo area features a hard cover that can be used as a shelf, and is durable enough to support the weight of a medium dog."

    "Yeah, that's just what I'm going to do. Stick my dog in the back window on top of the cargo shelf, LOL."

    The cargo shelf can be placed in a lower position near the floor as well as well as in the center area. It can also be installed at an angle as a wall/divider. It may be versatile, but I never use it.

    As far as gas mileage is concerned, I have never reset my DIC. After lots of highway driving during the week, it reads around 20. After a weekend of around town, it drops to 16/17. I have 6,000 miles on my '03 Envoy XL SLT and find the average mileage reading accurate when I figure it with a calculator after a fill up, but am thinking that it can't be considering all miles driven since day one. If it did, it wouldn't fluctuate so much or equal my manual figuring.
    Any thoughts on this?
  • st1100v4st1100v4 Member Posts: 96
    It has to be resetting itself at some interval. As you said, there is no way your "all miles included" mpg could fluctuate like that after substantial miles are included. I find the DIC a little screwy in that it fairly often is on a different display at startup from where I left it at shutdown. It wouldn't surprise me at all if a bug/glitch was resetting your average.
  • smfransmfran Member Posts: 432
    My DIC is always on the same display where I left it. I also don't think it changes due to different driver settings.
    I imagine that the average mileage will fluctuate less and less as more miles are driven. Maybe it is fairly accurate.
  • gam2gam2 Member Posts: 316
    Is the 5/60 warranty on on '02 Bravada transferrable to a subsequent owner?

    GAM
  • ron_mron_m Member Posts: 186
    Does anyone know if GM is going to bring back the glove box and underhood lights for the '04 TrailBlazers? Will the rear console controls for HVAC and stereo system be available on the '04 TrailBlazer LTZ models(the non-extended version)?

    A friend at work is interested in purchasing a TrailBlazer around the '04 time-frame, so I told him that I would check these two issues out with the experts on Edmunds Town Hall.

    Thanks in advance for any information pertaining to these two inquiries.

    Ron M.
  • ltz2003ltz2003 Member Posts: 24
    There is no LTZ model
  • st1100v4st1100v4 Member Posts: 96
    Not to belabor the point, but if you're talking about your average mpg since new and you're currently at 6000 miles, there's no way your average mpg display is correct. At the point where it says 20mpg, even if your "weekend around town" milage was 10mpg, you'd have to drive 1000 miles at 10mpg before your average dropped to 17.5 mpg. Your average is being recalculated over a relatively short period of time.
  • dlaredlare Member Posts: 43
    ficuss says: "what does your DIC mileage average read for the entire period you have owned the car. This and only this is your average mileage"

    The DIC and other such readouts are notoriously inaccurate and are really only to be used for reference and entertainment. I've owned 6 different vehicles from 4 different manufacturers that had the "driver information computer" and all 6 displayed optomistic numbers. The computer's calculations are based on a number of operating inputs (rpm, injector duty cycle, MAF, MAP, tranny feedback, etc.) and are NOT really measuring the amount of fuel going through the system.

    The only way to calculate real MPG is to keep a log of fuel usage vs. miles driven, and use a good old calulator.

    Dean
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    Going back to your original statement that GM should have inspected all parts for any possible damage 100% before assembly, the point I tried to make was that the way the problem was described, corrosion is what causes the wall of the brake pipe to become weak and thin, and possibly fail. Also, that it is not practical to 100% inspect every part going into a product built for a consumer market. Now if it was built to mil spec where cost is no object, that would be different. The scoring likely scratched thru the plated surface exposing the base metal and then with time and exposure to corrosive salts, air, water, etc., the resulting corrosion (i.e., rust) would cause the wall to get thin. That's how I read it. Apparently you interpret it differently. So be it.
  • seifordseiford Member Posts: 68
    Apparently the cause of the "freaked out computer" (radio, Onstar, power locks/windows & gages dead, most dash lights on) was traced to an 'open' wire on the ignition switch.

    That problem seems corrected (although the exterior temperature doesn't always update while driving), but the "stutter" at idle remains. It's back in the shop today.

    I think the reasoning behind the dealer's choice of rental vehicles is to make you appreciate your car more when you get it back... it was a Hyundai Santa Fe. No power until you got it up to 3k rpms.. and the turning radius was pathetic. I guess I'm spoiled with the Envoy's great turning radius.

    What's everyone's experience with the DIC display? I like leaving the display blank so I notice any messages that pop up. I thought it was supposed to keep whatever setting it had when the engine was shut off. For about a month I had it working great where it would stay blank, but now it always comes back to Odometer when the car is started. How can I get it to stay blank?
  • badgerpaulbadgerpaul Member Posts: 219
    It's my understanding that the average fuel used in the DIC only stores a certain number of data points discarding the oldest as it goes. So it really creates a rolling average (no pun intended). All reseting it does is clear out all the old data points.
  • st1100v4st1100v4 Member Posts: 96
    The fact that the DIC is not precise on mpg has been noted here before. And, as was stated, unless you have an accurate flowmeter in the fuel line, you're not going to get exact numbers. That said, mine has at least been consistent with what I would expect (bigger jumps when travelling).

    I don't know about the moving average idea. I would have expected a bigger jump when I took my first road trip (all expressway), if that was the case. I guess it just depends on the number of data points. I have never had my average go down. When I first paid attention to it at 500 miles, it read 14.2. It has gradually moved to 18.9 at ~17500 miles with the biggest jumps (a few tenths) from the trips.
  • funitsfunits Member Posts: 55
    Yes, I have experienced unexpected results using the key fob to unlock my Envoy . . . I have had my Envoy since January 2002, the month/year in which it was built.

    During cold/winter months: 1 push of the unlock button on the fob unlocks the driver's door; 2 times unlocks all doors and rear tailgate . . .

    BUT now that hotter/summer months are here: 1 push of the unlock button on the fob MAY OR MAY NOT unlock the drivers door (solution: keeping pushing the button until the door unlocks!).

    I thought the batteries in the fob were low or I was too far away, but it definitely has to do with the temperature outside. Last summer I had problems, but this winter the fob functioned correctly every time. Now that it is warming up, the fob works intermittenly on the 1st try.

    In addition, putting the Envoy in PARK does not necessarily mean the tailgate will be unlocked. I would say that about 25% of the time, putting it in park DOES NOT unlock the tailgate. Also, when I have passengers in the vehicle, at times, one or more of the passenger doors does not unlock when the vehicle is put in PARK.

    The first time I had the service dept. look at the problem, they couldn't reproduce. But now that warmer weather is here, I believe I will be able to reproduce the problem for them. But I do not hold out much hope that they will be able to correct it.
  • seifordseiford Member Posts: 68
    Funits: What results do you get if you use your other remote? Same intermittant problems?
  • tjcishere1tjcishere1 Member Posts: 42
    Did anyone else have an axle seal replaced? I had a noise of grinding or rubbing like the brake was rubbing the rotor this happen twice once in the winter , it was very cold but went away after a few miles then it just happen again in warm weather made the noise forward and reverse. Dealer says it is the axle seals, he said they have changed a few on the Envoy. The truck has 14,000 miles on it now.
    Oh yes also they will also replace drvers window due to scratches from dirt getting stuck in the molding around the window anyone else have scratches?
  • ficussficuss Member Posts: 541
    dlare: You may be correct in saying the computer ( DIC ) may not be exact. I don't know if the fuel added or used is actually metered at some point. I do know the DIC gives a fairly accurate estimate of driving range with gas left in the tank, if you continue driving the same speed etc. My point in comparing DIC generated gas mileage numbers was to have everyone use the same yardstick per se. I imagine all GM DIC systems use the same algorithms to arrive at the mileage number. That number will at least be a useful comparative figure. I would be more inclined to believe that than thousands of people filling the tank to whatever level they choose and then calculating their mileage in their heads. In baseball, they never give one game batting averages. The stats are lifetime averages.

    tblazed: we are saying the same thing with different words. The brake line scoring is the problem.

    funits: does your remote act up everywhere or just in one location? You may be experiencing radio interference at the location where it takes several attempts to unlock the door. Do you have a new ham radio operator nearby?

    Frank
  • momstruck1momstruck1 Member Posts: 206
    I have the truck in the shop now and it seems that the dealerships in the NY/NJ area never have a loaner car . But anyway I am waiting on the scratches since we lease the TB ext I did mention it to the dealership . We will see what they do all the windows seem to have it. It is just the drivers side for you? I will let you all know what happens to it is in for 5 or 6 things this time .
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    Could you please post (or email me my email address is in my profile) the specific instuctions as to what the dealer is to do to disable the override that can allow the transmission to be shifted out of PARK? Thanks!
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    jr45 since your Bravada is so new, what you see there is likely what you already have programming-wise. Keep that list for future reference. You will see changes as updates are issued. Check it every couple of months. If anything gets updated then you will have the original list to compare to. That's how I found several updates for my '02 TB. For example: the OS software for my TB has been superceded with 3 updates since my original printout. Otherwise the dealer has to plug in the scan tool, read what you currently have, upload that data to GM and get what versions you currently have and any of updates that apply. Of course if you are having problems it can't hurt to ask the dealer if there are any updates.
  • funitsfunits Member Posts: 55
    "Funits: What results do you get if you use your other remote? Same intermittant problems?"

    Yes, I have tried remotes 1 & 2, and both work the same -- cold weather/winter everything works great, warm/summer you have to hit the button until it works!

    It may have something to do with sunlight, or the angle/direction of light in reference to the remote/vehicle?
  • momstruck1momstruck1 Member Posts: 206
    I made it a point that i would be returning the car at lease end and did not want to be charged for the scratches . was told by GM and now the service department that there would be no charge we will see. AS for the rest of the problems when I get the car back and get the paper work I will post what they did.
  • 2k_impala_ls2k_impala_ls Member Posts: 311
    I have the egr in-channel window vents and love them. IMO the stick on vents look cheap. Check out my site to see for yourself.
    http://www.trailblazer.homestead.com/
  • dshepherd3dshepherd3 Member Posts: 194
    The alternate transportation program on all GM cars and trucks provides for a loaner or rental if warranty service requires an overnite stay, why don't they get a car from a rental agency, GM reimburses them for this , it is part of your warranty.
  • spdmtr5spdmtr5 Member Posts: 111
    Just read on the I don't like SUVs thread that the new triplet motor is beginning to break.Is this something new or an anti SUV wish?
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    I've handled investigations on 5 engine failures in our area (PA, NJ, DE). I work with a GM service manager (17 years, out of the business a month), who related the silent recall.

    The 4.2 sounds great, considering hp and torque figures, and there are plenty of engines out there that have sleeved piston bores, but these aren't working, for some reason.

    And, no, you won't see anything published by GM on this - it would kill sales, of course.
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